Hi All: Sorry this is long! Been following this board for a few weeks now, and have bought and devoured "Divorce Remedy". Like most here, my story is written from a similar script. Husband and I met when we were early 20's, married when he was 35/me 32. It's our silver anniversary this year. Husband has incredible fear of his mortality-always has, probably due to his mother passing when he was 23, father when he was 28. (Dad was 58yrs). Anyway, we've had our rough spots-I've suggested counselling in the past-which he has not wanted to do. 6 yrs ago I had stage 2 breast cancer, resulting in bilateral mastectomy/chemo/radiation/recon the works. Also dealing with mother with advanced dementia (she passed this June), and my father with mild, now probably mod dementia. In retrospect, I was also dealing with undiagnosed PTSD/depression while working full time +OT to pay bills (12 hrs shifts, health care). No sex life since Ca diagnosis, little emotional support last 2 years. He Ignored me while my mother was dying, then cried like a baby.
I didn't realize it at the time, due to my issues, but husband was withdrawing. I think he's MLC-once he hit 55 I started joking about senior's discounts and he refused to ask for them "I'm not telling anyone I'm old". At 58, he started telling everyone (except me) that he was retiring at 60. Our adviser said 62. I finally said he needs to talk to me about it, and he totally shut right down. End result-this June I said "I've talked to our adviser, and it's doable-but for us to be happy in retirement I think we need help with our relationship!" "Nope, we're beyond talking". So here we go:
BD#1 June 4. Mother dies: June 8 I discover EA with work "friend"-he's messenging her. making flirty comments, she's not biting back with same. June 14: He come home crying, "friendship just got crazy, he's sorry, he loves me forever blah blah blah". June 19: Had first counselling session booked, he cancels out 1 hr before-I get the ILYBINILWY speech. (I'm calling the BD #2) I do the usual, cry, etc. End up at sister-in-laws, my counsellor suggests a letter-I write one and leave it for him "It's beautiful, I'm keeping it (and it is in his jewellery box), texts me hearts). Things continue to deteriorate, he stops saying he loves me. I say," You know I do, but I will stop saying it." July 4: Start LRT...detaching....light conversation.
So here we are. I think he's more detached than I am! But I'm trying. No relationship discussions, but we are sorting out a remortgage to clear consumer debt. We live rurally on acreage with animals. He tells me
1. He doesn't want to sell the house, I should stay in it for a year and he will pay 1/2 mortgage. 2. He says he's 50/50 re attempting reconciliation-will let me know if that changes. Not seeing any effort on his part, in fact I think I'm Plan B at this point if "WF" situation doesn't pan out. 3. We both work shifts-he wants to come home on his days off to tend to chores. When working he's currently staying with his sister. (who has been an awesome support to me). 4. Here it is: "work friend" and I have a mutual acquaintance. WF has a boyfriend, but my H is infatuated with her. Mutual friend says WF even says "he's infatuated" Says they are "friends" but is going shooting at the range etc with her. WF still not helpful as encouraging him to leave marriage, and he, at least, is in an EA. 5. Joined gym, working out, wants to buy sports car/mountain bike/get personal trainer. Thinks gym is "target rich environment" according to a friend. 6. When we talk about inconsequential things, eyes are darting all over the place, looking for escape.
I know, detach, be the lighthouse. My read on this is MLC/Fear of death. I'm still willing to attempt R, but having serious bouts of anger. Our conversations are so light, I can't even validate his feelings as they are unexpressed. When he does things (ie filled the horse trough because he noticed it was down) I thank him. When he tells me what his plans are re: coming home or staying at sister's I tell him I appreciate him letting me know where he'll be. That's about all I've got. I feel he's running as fast as he can away from me, and yet wants to come home on days off, keep the house, etc....Mixed messages fast and furious, but daily he is getting more distant.
What the heck is going on?! What can I do?
Just thanks for having this board, somewhere I can write other than my journal, or my friends who think I should just be done. Can't turn my back on the man he used to be. I accept this marriage is over, but I don't want the relationship to be.
Me: 57 H:60 Married: 25 yrs DB #1 June 4/19 "I love you forever" June 14/19 DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
I would suggest that you run a credit history report as quickly as you can to keep an eye on your finances and assets. If he is in mlc, a large majority of them love to spend money.
His mind will be running very fast and furious and right now, he's saying all of the right things, but what he has told you about what he wants to do and have you do may or may not change. Promises are not usually kept by the mlcer.
Also, you do not want to be Plan B if things don't work out. You want to be number one and that means moving forward, working on you and if you have things that you want to change about yourself, now is the time to do them and make them a permanent part of your life.
As for seeking therapy, he will most likely cancel again or if he does go, he will only hear what he wants to hear. It's best that you seek out therapy for yourself at this time. Until his "friend" is out of the picture, he will not focus on what he needs to in order to heal himself. She's nothing more than a band aid to his pain.
Please try to remember that this is not about you. It is all about him and his childhood issues. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. The only thing you can do is listen, be a friend and offer advice/suggestions only if he asks for them. Yes, the mlcer detaches about 18-24 months before the actual bomb falls hard on you. It will take you a while to fully detach and not react to his every word or action.
For now, keep the focus on you and your family. Make a list of projects and hobbies that you've put on the back burner and start working on them. Dig deep and find the woman that you were before you married him. Be the best that you can be because you are definitely the prize.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I have run a credit check-and in fact signed up for monitoring. We have split the joint account-he now has his own chequing (he never paid attention to the budget, i find it ironic that now he realizes how much things cost). He is responsible for emailing money to cover joint expenses every 2 weeks. I've cancelled my two credit cards that he was subsidiary on.
He hasn't even said those things for a couple of weeks. Last night I did make a comment about space, and he thanked me for it. (I said it jokingly).
I do not want to be plan b for sure! I don't think he knows which end is up-he told my sister's BF that he "just wanted to be twenty again, go to the bar, get drunk and throw up on the way home" WTF? he's turning 60.
Regarding his promises re mortgage etc: I have told him I am getting a collaborative lawyer (my initial appointment is booked for next week) I want these promises in writing. When I filled out the intake form to send in, I gave him a blank copy and said "you can do one, or we can do one jointly" we did it jointly. When I asked the question (from the form) possibility of reconciliation-he very quickly and firmly said "yes". But I know, believe nothing of what they say. He says he's "confused" and "trying to find a path back" I believe the confused. not the other. I also don't think he's even thought about a lawyer yet-but I want the separation agreement done for my own protection.
I haven't mentioned therapy to him at all. I'm going to my own to sort out my issues, of which I've identified and can own as contributing to this. I find it interesting that he's apparently regressed back to the age where his parents died.
I am attempting to GAL again. It's a little difficult living in the sticks, but I'm getting out to community events, joined meetups locally, working out. Already lost 25 pounds! Days are fine, evenings alone are difficult. thank god for neighbours.
Thanks for the advice re listening/offering advice if asked. Right now he can't even look at me, and our conversation consists of "the cat's hair is growing back nicely since you shaved her!" Do I start conversations? Or wait for him?
Me: 57 H:60 Married: 25 yrs DB #1 June 4/19 "I love you forever" June 14/19 DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
I think I would step back a bit and allow him to come to you in the way of conversations. It's called going dim, not dark. If he asks you something, respond in a polite way. Think of him as a roommate at this time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks Job, that's what I gleaned from the book. It's so difficult as I'm usually quite gabby. I find he can sit and sort of chat with me for 10-20" (with no eye contact whatsoever), then he usually rushes off to "his" room and gets on facebook or youtube. So, friendly roommate it is. It feels like I've been trying to do this for ages, but looking at my calendar, I only made the conscious decision to stop pursuing on July 4. It feels like eternity! and I know that there are months to go. It's stunning to me how he can go from professing love to this ice cold person who I actually think at times might just hate me.
I still love him after all these years, and am looking at this as mental illness. (not to discredit some of our marital issues). I told him in my letter I would like to at some point attempt to reconnect, and then sort out some of these other problems. (communication/love styles).
Me: 57 H:60 Married: 25 yrs DB #1 June 4/19 "I love you forever" June 14/19 DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
You have an opportunity here to give him a taste of reality. Follow me on this:
Many WASs don't come to their senses until it's too late and the LBS has moved on into another relationship. Now, I'm NOT suggesting that you date or anything like that. BUT - it can be a kindness to give him a sense of what life might be like once you've moved on and give him a chance to respond NOW while it's not too late.
You have a good chance to do this because he's not living in the home but is coming and spending time there. Stage a few things to make him think - things that might look suspicious but that you can plausibly explain away.
Examples: Two used wine glasses left on the deck or porch.
Flowers - (roses - when he asks, they're "from a friend, no you don't know them")
New Victoria's Secret lingerie - leave it hanging to dry in the bathroom, leave the bag somewhere in the bedroom.
Go away for a weekend - when he asks where and with whom, tell him that's none of his business anymore. (I went to a local hotel and cried and laid by the pool - not the most fun but it was refreshing and I know my ex wondered what I was doing all weekend.)
I guarantee you, he will start to think that what's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. And right now he just wants you to be his comfortable Plan B while he goes off and explores other women.
Also - I'm glad you're seeing a lawyer, but even if you do mediation, you need someone who is YOUR lawyer to advise you, separate from the mediator. And meet with your financial advisor too to see what financial position you will be in if H retires early and divorces you.
You sound like you are doing all the right things seeing a lawyer and splitting accounts and taking name off credit cards
I would lean back as was suggested. dont initiate anything
get a new hairstyle new outfit shoes, nails make plans make new friends and activities as you already are
most important is work through your pain..seek therapy and heal grieve and watch If it is true MLC..he seems a little on the older side..but if it is MLC, it will take him a while to get through
an average MLC takes 2-7 years you already see the mLC behaviors:
affair new clothes cars. motorcycles spending gym new friends new jobs hair change or color change tattoos partying drinking no responsibility
hang in there
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Hi KML! yes, I get where you're coming from, but I think he knows this is too fresh and painful for me right now that he would see through it. I do try to make plans and get out of the house when I know he's here-just "I'm going to town-see ya later" kind of thing. Right now I'm only up to giggling at text messages on my cell phone. Sometimes I even wonder if he see me "getting a life" if he doesn't think "well, that's okay, she'll be alright". He's done weird things like telling my sister in law and her husband that "if it doesn't work out between us, they still have to be friends with me". What? Well, we are, but anyhoo....
re: Lawyer, yes I will have my own, he should have his-there is a group of lawyers in this town who do collaborative law, each person assembles a team-their own lawyer, financial adviser and therapist if needed.
Fortunately,(for me) if he does retire early, and divorces me, he's pretty much screwed himself. Our jobs pay close enough to each other that even though I make more than he does, he can't tag me for spousal support. Also, we have the same government pension plan, so any suing for pension essentially is a wash. My advantage is that I will, at some point in the next 5-10 years be inheriting a 2 suite revenue property in the middle of a very good neighbourhood. I'm currently functioning as the landlord there as I am my father's POA. I could bank the house sale proceeds (my share),evict the tenants, live cheap in the revenue house, and end up with a nice piece of real estate, house sale cash in the bank, plus my pensions. He ends up with his basic work pension, canada pension, and old age security (ultimately), proceeds from house sale, which he'd need to buy another place. I know he hasn't even thought about that-and I hope he doesn't so I don't wonder if we do end up reconciling that he's doing it for income.
This feels like it's bloody killing me. We were so close to retirement, have been through so much, could have been having fun-travelling, boating fishing etc. instead he's gone and done this. I'm a planner, him, not so much. Sometimes I just want to shake him into his senses, and tell him to stop being such an idiot, but I know that's not the way to go. We used to have a radio program up here called "Dead Dog Cafe" and their catch phrase was "Stay calm, be brave, watch for the signs" I'm using that.
Most days I just want to cry.
Me: 57 H:60 Married: 25 yrs DB #1 June 4/19 "I love you forever" June 14/19 DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
Hi Peace today, yes I'm pretty sure it's MLC-he has a phobic fear of death thanks ( I think,) to both parents dying while he was in his twenties. I even wonder if my cancer bout didn't start this off-I know he was devastated when I was diagnosed.
Let's see: ticking off boxes
Denial: started at 55 refusing to ask for seniors discount, "that's telling them you're old" Anger: around 58 (his dad died at 58 yrs).....started flatly stating he's retire at 60 without discussion. Emotional affair-this spring (59, turning 60 in Aug) ongoing. Gym/working out-about 5 months ago talk about "getting a trainer/buying a sports car/buying a mountain bike" changes monthly. talks about "just wanting to party like in my 20's" Gym is "target rich environment' partying, drinking oh yes.
Honestly I think this has been going on for 3-4 years already. I was deep in issues with my parents and post recovery-didn't catch early signs. And frankly, I always thought (having been together for 30+ years) that we always had enough connection. Maybe, but we didn't nurture it as we should have. I'd like to try that, but he's replaying.
Me: 57 H:60 Married: 25 yrs DB #1 June 4/19 "I love you forever" June 14/19 DB#2: June 19/19 ILYBINILWY
