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#2857672 07/19/19 11:23 AM
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Hi everyone. This is my new thread.

Here is my old thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2852366#Post2852366

Quick summary.

Spring 18 I discovered H in an EA by checking texts on his phone. He strenuously denied, claimed I was having mental health problems, then finally confessed when confronted with more evidence. Things had not been right between us for a year or so prior to that. We went to MC during which H blamed me for all his actions and carried on denying the extent of his contact with EA woman. He became increasingly critical and controlling and verbally abusive. I BD'd him in Jan 19 and he moved out. The first few months were appalling, with him refusing contact with Eldest. (One of our major differences was over parenting). This has thawed now, and though I am mainly dark, he's having good contact and friendly interactions with both kids regularly, and is increasingly involved in their lives. He is in IC, as am I. He wants to R and go to MC, though I am undecided.

Nothing new to report as yet. I am still thinking. Feeling less sad and to be honest a bit angry. Especially after typing out this summary. It took a long time, lots of posts and lots of hearing advice from the vets on here to understand that H was abusive and that I needed to protect myself from that at all costs. I have done so. The abuse has stopped - verbal and emotional - and he seems to have done a total 180. But it's only been a few weeks. He is apologetic but has offered no clear explanation (which is an improvement on him blaming me for his unacceptable behaviour - but it isn't enough).

I guess while I can believe in theory that people can change, that he may well be willing to do the work and may well be taking his IC seriously, even in the best possible circumstances, I still get the 'prize' of Ring with a man who I know is capable of great cruelty. He may change. He may look inside and do the work. That's up to him. But even if he does, I can't help but feel I deserve something better than a man who needs to take strenuous and special efforts to refrain from emotionally and verbally abusing his wife. He had much to be unhappy about in our marriage - I own that - but he could have just left, moved on, and gone dark. He could have divorced me. Instead, he stayed and made my life a misery, and carried on making it a misery for as long as I allowed it. Perhaps my going dark has 'worked' but I am not sure I want someone I need to take such drastic measures to get him to understand I am human and deserving of respect and basic civility.

I am resting a lot at the moment. Making no hasty decisions. I worked so so so hard to get where I am, and it hurt, and it was really hard, and it look longer than it should have. My children suffered in the process. I am not willing to go there again for anything.

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Well it's been a few days now. I feel much more settled in my feelings but I would still appreciate advice and suggestions from vets as to where to go from here.

It's very quiet all of a sudden.

H and I have been talking a little more. Or rather, he's been talking and I've been listening. I'm still pretty dark for myself and not disclosing much, but I am listening to what he wants to say. I think he knows I will 100% shut it down the second he gets disrespectful or abusive, and there's been none of that at all - but plenty of reflection from him on why he was acting that way. He doesn't seem to be blaming me or attempting to excuse or justify his actions any longer. Whether that is enough to consider R and starting the piecing journey, I do not know. I still feel very bruised and guarded. He's been very clear that the ball is in my court and where we go from here is up to me. Which feels fair and respectful of him, but also makes me feel a bit pressured.

I have the door open a tiny crack and it feels like something from me is needed before we go further and I don't know what.

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Alison , you are doing so well , I am.not sure you realise how far you have come . I have no idea of what to say , hopefully one of the experienced vets will come along .

Until then what’s the plans for the week and weekend?

For me Ian enjoying being in an aircon office , but the commute is harsh . Thinking of hitting the coast at the weekend, somewhere a bit off the beaten track hopefully.

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Alison - I have the same advice as last week. Take your time, you do not have to operate on his timeline. I would say do nothing while you feel pressured.

When it comes to your H and whether he has truly changed, I think it boils down to 2 key questions:

1. Do you believe he understands the underlying thoughts, issues, and attitudes that drove his abusive and disrespectful behavior in the past?
2. If so, what is he doing to address them (or what signs have you seen)?

I say this because it's one thing to address the symptoms of that type of behavior (or be on one's best behavior for awhile), but true change comes from deeper digging. I'm guessing you are tentative because you see the behavioral change but don't know if it's really there to stick. And also, true change can take years.

Think about how hard it has been to change yourself. The time, the energy, the emotional pain. Change does not come easy.

I have no advice about where to go from here, unfortunately. That is a really difficult position to be in.

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I agree with Unchien. You have the control here.

Personally I would need to see progressive change over a long period of time before I believed any of it was true.

Consistency over time.

How you convey that to H is a big mystery. I guess it would depend on your interactions with him if there are any. And as always what you would need to see from him going forward.

I saw somewhere here or on another site - someone said they would ask this question -

"What would be different this time?"

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Alison -

I posted those 2 questions because of my own sitch. I spent a lot of time in the spring reading and thinking about whether I was abusive. What I have taken away is I did behave in some very disrespectful ways and sometimes did cross over the threshold into emotionally abusive behavior.

I stopped the behavior long before my W distanced herself. But I did not address my issues fully.

Working through IC to understand the thoughts beliefs and attitudes driving my behavior has been life changing. Once those change, the behaviors automatically change.

How can your H possibly show you? I have no idea. Being on the other side, I don’t know how to show it to my W either. Pressure, earnestness, talking about myself - it all feels self serving to me.

When the topic of trust came up in MC (specifically my W lacking trust in me), I asked the counselor how am I supposed to restore trust? He said that’s not up to you W and it’s not up to me. It’s up to you.

Just some thoughts... frankly the ball is not in your court. Relationships are not tennis matches.

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Originally Posted by unchien

How can your H possibly show you? I have no idea. Being on the other side, I don’t know how to show it to my W either.

Just some thoughts... frankly the ball is not in your court. Relationships are not tennis matches.


I abused my husband emotionally and verbally. He moved out 4 months ago. In my case I was depressed which drove a lot of my behavior. I didn't know how bad it was until it was gone. I sought ADs after he left not realizing it would change my life for the better.

He's gone dark but because of kids I can show my changes to him without seeing him. We do text about the kids in a business like manner. At first I was manipulative and he could tell by the words I chose. I couldn't hide it because it wasn't sincere. Over time I started to heal and I don't know I just no longer have the need to manipulate or control. These days I don't expect a response from him, I'm not upset when he ignores me, I can now take the "I'm angry at you" texts without making excuses or trying to talk him out of his feelings. When he pointed out my bad behavior (recently) I thanked him for pointing it out to me and said I would fix it (I was sincere). I'm not completely sure what he wants but I am fixing it to the best of my ability. When I see him (rare) I do ask to R but when he says no I don't push.

I've got to work now but I will write more later. Oh and on the tennis ball thing I read that in cases like this it is the abuser that has the ball. Took me a bit to let that sink in but I get it now. He left solely because I was an abuser. He didn't rush off to file which means the ball is in MY court. He's not doing anything hastily either which means I've got time. BTW I'm 4 months out and I am NOT healthy enough to reconcile. I've come a long way yes but it's too soon and i know it/he knows it. As much as I hate to say this I'll probably need a year. Not full on NC for a year just not not making any major decisions until that year is up.


Last edited by kas99; 07/24/19 02:01 PM.
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One more thing before I stop procrastinating. At first I was doing the work to get him back. Problem with this is that it's EXHAUSTING!!! Trying to make someone else happy means it won't stick. It's too hard and there is no reward, no payback, no atta boys, nothing. Over time I began doing the work for me which is a whole lot easier since the only person I have to make happy is me. I don't need any payback or reward. Feeling proud of what I've done is the reward regardless of whether he gives me another chance or not. During this I've become a better mom. A few weeks ago my teenage daughter said "I got my mom back". I don't need it no but this is feedback that I'm on the right track.

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Hi Alison,

I agree with the others. I don't know that you have to go anywhere from here, however you can simply continue to live your life; take care of yourself, your kids, heal from this painful sitch, and continue your 180s and GAL. I don't view this as a tennis match where the ball is now in your court. So he is changing his tune, having some regrets and he wants to work on the M now? That is great for him that he thinks he knows what he wants now. That does not mean it is great for you. It also does not mean you have to jump at this opportunity.

You have done a great job of creating boundaries and no longer allowing his abuse of you. You essentially taught him how he cannot treat you. It worked and he also gained respect for you. In the mean time, you created some much needed space for yourself and started to detach a bit. With that comes sadness and what appears to be acceptance and grief. I think when we finally step out of the drama/chaos and start to go dark, we see our situation a bit more clearly and it is rather depressing. When you are caught up in a cycle of distance/pursuit, it is hard to see the forest through the trees. Your M as you knew it is dead, gone and over. Of course you feel sadness about that. That was your dream family and life you created, and you lost it. Now that everything has calmed down, you can see it more clearly for what it is.

I have no idea what will happen now and I would guess it will take a long time to unfold. When all of us get BDd we are in a panic, we are only focused on getting them back, we come here, and then everyone tell us this is a marathon and not a sprint. I didn't even know what that meant until years later. Even piecing over the last 4.5 years it has been 3 steps forward and then 2 steps back. So really, the only thing you can do now, is continue on your own journey of healing and recovery. He really hurt you a lot. He cannot be the one to mend or heal this. That comes from you. In a way, they give us a gift in this sh-thole mess they create because they teach us that the art of self love is the only healer. And we get pretty good at it.

In the mean time, he may continue to try harder, pursue you or even pressure you. And that is his choice. If you feel like listening to him or even spending time with him, that is your choice. You take all the time you need. If over time, he continues to show you that he has changed, is continuing to work on himself, and he is continuing to tell you he will do anything to be with you, well then you can decide if you want to give him a chance. And that is when the very hard work will begin. So take care of yourself now and don't think you have to do anything differently. Hugs.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. I have been thinking hard about your suggestions and insights and concentrating on taking care of myself. I've joined a walking group and have been outdoors a lot - sometimes with the group, sometimes alone, and sometimes with the children. I haven't made any new friends yet, but I've enjoyed the company and the activity and after so many years at an indoors and sedentary job, I can feel how much good it is doing my body and mind to be out in nature.


Originally Posted by unchien
1. Do you believe he understands the underlying thoughts, issues, and attitudes that drove his abusive and disrespectful behavior in the past?
2. If so, what is he doing to address them (or what signs have you seen)?


I do believe he is starting to understand it - and he's showing me through the conversations he's had that his focus has changed somewhat, and rather than looking outside to blame me or his circumstances, he's started digging into his own character and history. That's very new. I don't know if he is able or willing to sustain that, especially in the context of the normal stresses and strains of family life, but it is a start and I like what I see so far. His actions have been small - though in fairness, I haven't given him much time or space with me to make bigger actions. He's taking a lot more of the 'mental load' of caring for our children and is reliable and eager to stick to the agreement we made with finances. I haven't needed to remind him of that. He's being honest with me when he's out of sorts (he said, 'I know I'm grumpy - it isn't you, I'm just exhausted and I need to go home and sleep' when we were talking about some childcare issues last week, and that's a huge thing). He's taking better care of himself - I don't see him hungover or unshaved any more, and he's getting out and exercising alone and socially very often. He's speaking to me with respect, and he said he was willing to hear about what changes I'd want to see in a future R, though I haven't taken him up on that yet. He is still attending IC and the offer from him of MC is on the table, though he has not pressured me or put a time-limit on that. He has apologised for his treatment of me, and called it what it was - verbal and emotional abuse - and he's also spoken about how he was feeling in the last year or so of our marriage as it was without blaming me. The honesty and self disclosure is new.

Originally Posted by unchien
How can your H possibly show you? I have no idea. Being on the other side, I don’t know how to show it to my W either. Pressure, earnestness, talking about myself - it all feels self serving to me.

When the topic of trust came up in MC (specifically my W lacking trust in me), I asked the counselor how am I supposed to restore trust? He said that’s not up to you W and it’s not up to me. It’s up to you.


These are brilliant questions. There's the temptation to make him suffer, to go through all kinds of hoop-jumping, to make him grovel, etc etc. I'm not proud of that feeling and I am not acting on it, but it is there. I know that my lack of trust, my resentment and my own tendency to blame and elide my own part on what went wrong are things that I need to work on before we'd be ready for piecing. Some days I am there, and much more of the time, I'm just not. I'm still angry at him. At the moment there's nothing he can do or say other than what he is doing. I think the rest of the work, at this time, is mine. And I need time. I know I want a relationship between two equals, and that will involve us both drawing a line under the past and building something new.

Originally Posted by BluWave
Hi Alison,

I agree with the others. I don't know that you have to go anywhere from here, however you can simply continue to live your life; take care of yourself, your kids, heal from this painful sitch, and continue your 180s and GAL. I don't view this as a tennis match where the ball is now in your court. So he is changing his tune, having some regrets and he wants to work on the M now? That is great for him that he thinks he knows what he wants now. That does not mean it is great for you. It also does not mean you have to jump at this opportunity.


Wise words, as always Blu. He does talk about wanting things to be different. Wanting to feel supported and wanting to feel like a partnership. What that would practically look like in day to day life I don't know - I want those things too, but it is possible that his vision for a future marriage does not match what I need or would be able to offer and vice versa. I have no idea how people actually do piecing. Do they sit down together and write a list of what they want and see if they can come to some agreement before taking the step forward and putting it into action? How did it work for you, Blu?

There are some practical things I want in a marriage - like equal partnership in finances and childrearing, fun time together, clear and agreed boundaries around friendships with the opposite sex, support for each other's time alone and personal development, full and clear communication, active and adventurous intimate life - that at the moment I don't want to ask for, because while I know I want these things in a future theoretical marriage, I am not certain I want them with him, or that I am in an emotional state where I can confidently and consistently offer them to him or for that matter, someone else. I have been honest with him about that, and while he's said it was hard for him to hear, he accepted it without rancour and thanked me for my honesty.

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