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#2857540 07/18/19 11:39 AM
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New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2857536&page=11

What I don’t know how to do is handle this. I can’t seperate detachment and love in my head. I can’t do it in real life either. If I detach where what she does doesn’t bother me. That means I have no love left for her. They go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Why does she think she can do this.

I have very little doubt she is having an EA. She spends loads if time in bathroom. Not normal. Always msging on her phone.

How is not just saying “ok fine. Let’s get divorced” not the ultimate dB. If Tarzan is up there lookin for a vine to grab into. Maybe I should be up there with a pair of scissors

You guys warned me. But I got too happy about her wanting to be close to me and talk to me and sit beside me that I forgot she is also cruel and mean and a cheater

She told me years ago she has cheated in every boyfriend she has ever had. Guess once a cheater always a cheater

Oh and we are back to Darth Vader using the force to sleep if the edge again

What did I do to set her back. I don’t get it. The bathroom thing?


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Oz,

Because she is making decisions based on emotions. What she is getting from the ea is the same feeling as a crack addict gets when puffing on a crack pipe.

Well I guess that's on you OZ. When someone tells you who they are believe them. You can't buy a zebra and take him to the farm and expect him to be a horse.

Because right now if you bring up D she is going to roll with it and let everyone know it's your idea.

If you want to blow up the affair I am ok with it but first you better have proof and second you better be willing to walk away if she doesn't end it. There is nothing more unattractive then a man who is openly willing to share his W with another man.



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Originally Posted by ozman
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2857536&page=11

What I don’t know how to do is handle this. I can’t seperate detachment and love in my head. I can’t do it in real life either. If I detach where what she does doesn’t bother me. That means I have no love left for her. They go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Why does she think she can do this.


Absolutes will kill you. There are no absolutes. You CAN detach...AND love her. Many of us have done it!! I think the problem you are having is a misconception on both detachment AND love. Most guys have the wrong idea of love.

So take some time to think and tell me what you think both are. Tell me what you think detachment is. And then tell me what you think love is.

Originally Posted by ozman

I have very little doubt she is having an EA. She spends loads if time in bathroom. Not normal. Always msging on her phone.


Yep, serious red flags. So what does that mean? Let's assume she is in an EA and a PA. What does that change for you? You've said you think you can get over that. Fine. But in the meantime what does it mean? Are you willing to kick her out of the MBR? Are you willing to tell her that she can't come back to the MBR until any EA or PA is over with full transparency? What ACTIONS are you going to take if there is an EA and/or PA?

Originally Posted by ozman

How is not just saying “ok fine. Let’s get divorced” not the ultimate dB. If Tarzan is up there lookin for a vine to grab into. Maybe I should be up there with a pair of scissors


You can do that. But don't do it just to manipulate her back or out of her A. Do ONLY when you are ready to be D'd. If you say that do not be surprised if you end up D'd. Lots of LBSs have taken this tack "I will tell her I want a D, that will snap her out of it!" and then are shocked when the end up D'd. So only take that step WHEN you are ready to be D'd.

Originally Posted by ozman

You guys warned me. But I got too happy about her wanting to be close to me and talk to me and sit beside me that I forgot she is also cruel and mean and a cheater


We've been there. We've done that. We are warning LBSs about things to be mean, or because we don't want you to succeed. We've all seen it in our own sitches. And in others' sitches.

Originally Posted by ozman

She told me years ago she has cheated in every boyfriend she has ever had. Guess once a cheater always a cheater


Interesting information that you should have shared with us a long time ago. ozman, yes typically a leopard doesn't change their spots. Unfortunately. Did you ever wonder why she told you that? Was it a warning? When you couple that history with your relationships beginnings, there are a lot of red flags here. This is going to be hard. The odds are stacked against you. It is time to gird up your loins and get ready for a lot of work, no matter how this turns out.
Oh and we are back to Darth Vader using the force to sleep if the edge again

Originally Posted by ozman

What did I do to set her back. I don’t get it. The bathroom thing?


Yes. Pressure and pursuit will set you back 99.99999999999%. Again, we've all seen it before. This is why we warned you not to apply any pressure or pursuit. Even joejoe's advice was to give her some emotional support to see where it led, not to offer to get naked with her.

You touched the pot. You got burned. Learn from it.


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She told me about her past boyfriends early in our R. She said she wanted me to know cause she wanted the air to be clear in a new R.

She told me a year or 2 ago “I would never cheat on you. That’s just mean. If we can’t work out I would just leave I wouldn’t do that to you”

I want to blow it up. But I don’t have proof. But I’m not stupid either.

She was a different person before I met her. She turned her life around right before we met. She got into drugs when she was 12. The really hard stuff by the time she was 14. Dropped out of school. When we met when she was 20 she had stopped it all. Been an awesome wife and mother for the last 10 years

I just can’t believe this. I don’t understand

If I’m going to effectively dB I have to understand this. It’s a must. I


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Steve so I blow it up or no I’m confused. I could get over an Ea. I’m not sure about a PA.

Also I said we have changed in front of each other several times in the last 2 weeks so I didn’t see the big deal

I also have no proof of an A i you guys told me not to snoop.

I can’t prove who she is talking to. I know some of it is friends and family. But I’m sure some of it is not

Last edited by ozman; 07/18/19 12:32 PM.

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oz, plan out what your actions will be. If you blow it up, how? After blowing it up, what next? Don't react out of emotion. Think logically and have a plan.

I don't care if you two have been naked 24/7 for the last year, she made it clear she wanted privacy to change alone in the bathroom. You pressured on it. She slapped your hand. As R2C said, NOTHING changed. The only thing that changed was you got your feelings hurt. Nothing is different now than it was before you said that the bathroom was big enough for both of you.

Maybe she had to go to the bathroom before changing and didn't want you in there. I've been with my W for 22 1/2years and still don't go to the bathroom (the sit down kind) with her in the bathroom.

Relax, breathe. There is no reason to act. Remember, in DBing sometimes the best action is no action.


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Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by ozman
What did I do to set her back. I don’t get it. The bathroom thing?


Yes. Pressure and pursuit will set you back 99.99999999999%. Again, we've all seen it before. This is why we warned you not to apply any pressure or pursuit. Even joejoe's advice was to give her some emotional support to see where it led, not to offer to get naked with her.

You touched the pot. You got burned. Learn from it.

Not sure I totally agree.
You pursued and I totally agree that was a mistake.
Yes you touched the pot and got burned - agree with that.

But other than the DB'ing mistakes that you made.

Your major fault was breathing air.

YOU DID NOT CAUSE HER ISSUES.

She owns them not you.

Stop trying to fix things you can not fix.

If I told you to step off a 50 story building and you would fly would you do it?
And if you did it once and lived would you do it again?

You can not stop gravity and that is what you are asking to do.


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Agree Cadet! Well said.


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Ok sigh. Should I blow it up with no proof bu like 95% sure? No hard proof though


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No. She will deny. Lie. Make excuses. I told someone earlier this week or last, even when I knew my W was in the bathroom for an hour and a half taking nude photos for OM, when I asked, why she made an excuse about having an upset stomach and digestive issues.

When you have proof you blow it up by saying: "I know what is going on." And then let her know she is no longer welcome in the MBR. If she doesn't move out, you move her out. You do not tell her how you know, or show her the evidence.

Accusing without proof will make you look weak and desperate. 95% sure is not enough in this case.

Again, what has changed from before the bathroom thing? Are you acting out of emotion, because you got hurt by her closing the bathroom door? Or from a position of strength (having irrefutable evidence of an EA)?

Last edited by Steve85; 07/18/19 01:11 PM.

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Hey Oz....I've been here too. It is very hard to "blow it up" with only 95% proof. Better be 100% sure before confronting otherwise you look paranoid, controlling etc.

She needs to know that you know...with proof....only at that point can she realize that this is a crossroads for your M.


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Steve I don’t know what your asking for in what has changed. I guess she is just being more and more blatant with the msging. It doesn’t bother her to do it in front of me any more I don’t think. I don’t know how to get proof. You guys told me not to go searching.

It’s like she wants me to ask who she is msging

I just looked back through our old texts. There is no way she was faking all the stuff she was sending me. Lots of hearts and stuff. Although it seems like the last few months that there were more of those than normal. Like it was her last ditch effort ir something.

What’s sad. I didn’t reply to a lot of those nice msgs. I was too busy with whatever at the time

I hate this. I can’t belive it. I just want to rewind the clock


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Very normal feeling you are having...we can't go back but we must learn moving forward.

Not sure about all of the texting to you and stuff. I can tell you looking back when my WW started her A and I didn't know about it yet, she was sweet as pie to me....almost her effort to make sure I had no idea what was going on.


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Oz,

There are various opinions on here because we are all individuals human beings. The advice typically is that once you confirm an A there is no point to search further. If you’re are not prepared to take action then do not pursue it right now.

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BTW pretty sure it’s lunch guy she works with which is why you’re not invited to the wedding.

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Steve85, I just love your assertive anti-NG scenarios. I took your advice on my thread about sleeping separately on vacay. I even used your words too. I've never been so strong like that before in my life, let alone with W. OMG she was like a dog chasing her tail. Once she calmed down she hasn't confronted me with any R talk since. I've been reading a few of your advices on this and what I like is that it's not only overly strong and even shocking, but the reasoning is just spot on. Shock and awe.


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Originally Posted by ozman
Steve I don’t know what your asking for in what has changed. I guess she is just being more and more blatant with the msging. It doesn’t bother her to do it in front of me any more I don’t think. I don’t know how to get proof. You guys told me not to go searching.

It’s like she wants me to ask who she is msging


I still question whether this is a change, or are you just hurt by her refusing to share the bathroom.

Its like this:

WAW BD's LBH.

LBH goes into super husband mode.....things improve and LBH almost feels like WAW is changing her mind. In meantime, WAW feels since BD that she now is the end phase of ending her marriage, so her behavior becomes more brazen. She texts other men, goes out and parties, she rendezvous' with OM, whatever the behavior is (this hypothetical, not necessarily your exact sitch), because in her mind the marriage is already over. (Many of us have heard those exact words from our WAW.)

LBH sees better behavior from his WAW has improved, gets more embolden, pursues and gets slapped down.

Suddenly LBH thinks everything is terrible (because he is hurt) and starts to nitpick things he was letting go before the slap down. NOTHING has changed, except LBH's perception of his standing with WAW.

Originally Posted by ozman

I just looked back through our old texts. There is no way she was faking all the stuff she was sending me. Lots of hearts and stuff. Although it seems like the last few months that there were more of those than normal. Like it was her last ditch effort ir something.

What’s sad. I didn’t reply to a lot of those nice msgs. I was too busy with whatever at the time

I hate this. I can’t believe it. I just want to rewind the clock


STOP You are spinning. Take deep breaths. Take a step back. The not sharing the bathroom with you yesterday IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. As R2C pointed out your mistake wasn't even asking to share the bathroom. It was agreeing to swim with her TO BEGIN WITH!

This is all a result of ozman being too available, and not going out and getting his own life. You are several threads in and still not getting a lot of this. Drop the rope. Let her go. Go get a life and leave her to figure out her own crap.


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Originally Posted by Josh_T
Steve85, I just love your assertive anti-NG scenarios. I took your advice on my thread about sleeping separately on vacay. I even used your words too. I've never been so strong like that before in my life, let alone with W. OMG she was like a dog chasing her tail. Once she calmed down she hasn't confronted me with any R talk since. I've been reading a few of your advices on this and what I like is that it's not only overly strong and even shocking, but the reasoning is just spot on. Shock and awe.


Thanks Josh! Glad it helped. Some of the best advice I got here was "you cannot nice her back". Ozman has admitted to getting BD'd, and then becoming super Husband to turn things around. I feel like he still thinks that is the way he is going to save his MR. I think this time is different. And deep down he knows that too, which is why he came here.


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Damn Steve. Something just clicked. I don’t know what. But something did. Let’s see if this is right

1 When she Bd me, in her head, she ended the marriage, whevwassnt wearing her ring, it’s just over

2 I DID go into super husband mode. Which seem to puss her off at first. Then she actually told me she appreciates it

3. I asked her who you talking too a while back “my sister, but it doesn’t matter” was her reply. Because in her head she can text whoever she wants cause we are done right?

4. She became nicer to me and more drawn to me because I removed pressure. But it didn’t mean anything just that we know each other and she is comfortable and I’m just a friend

5 it’s all over and I have a tiny chance but it’s not likely

Am I right?


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Originally Posted by ozman
Damn Steve. Something just clicked. I don’t know what. But something did. Let’s see if this is right

1 When she Bd me, in her head, she ended the marriage, whevwassnt wearing her ring, it’s just over

2 I DID go into super husband mode. Which seem to puss her off at first. Then she actually told me she appreciates it

3. I asked her who you talking too a while back “my sister, but it doesn’t matter” was her reply. Because in her head she can text whoever she wants cause we are done right?

4. She became nicer to me and more drawn to me because I removed pressure. But it didn’t mean anything just that we know each other and she is comfortable and I’m just a friend

5 it’s all over and I have a tiny chance but it’s not likely

Am I right?

Pretty much

Although it is never over until you say it is.


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Originally Posted by ozman
Damn Steve. Something just clicked. I don’t know what. But something did. Let’s see if this is right

1 When she Bd me, in her head, she ended the marriage, whevwassnt wearing her ring, it’s just over

2 I DID go into super husband mode. Which seem to puss her off at first. Then she actually told me she appreciates it

3. I asked her who you talking too a while back “my sister, but it doesn’t matter” was her reply. Because in her head she can text whoever she wants cause we are done right?

4. She became nicer to me and more drawn to me because I removed pressure. But it didn’t mean anything just that we know each other and she is comfortable and I’m just a friend

5 it’s all over and I have a tiny chance but it’s not likely

Am I right?


Not bad.

However:

6. By going back to removing all pressure and pursuit, giving her time and space, she may eventually decide that she wants to recommit to the marriage. BUT this could take a long time....

So the question is, do you have the patience to see where this ends up? Or will continue to do things that will assure and faster, though not what you want, outcome?


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Steve always hits the nail on the head and you need to listen to the advice you get here....but it will take getting the same advice 100x until it sinks in....it is NOT easy to get there!

You will never know how this will end up but your #5 should be that the man you were before BD is over. You were a man that attracted this woman and somewhere you stopped being that person. We all did, it is 100% a recurring situation here just with different spins.

Your pre BD self is over.....you need to get yourself back!


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and if you look at my stats in my signature, I was in the mode you are in for about 6-7 months, thought I was there then would spiral back. Back and forth, losing my mind for months.

Then I did decide that I have two kids, I want to be happy, I'm not doing this anymore. And I tell you I thought I dropped the rope about 10 times along the way....it's not easy.


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Originally Posted by "Ozman"
5 it’s all over and I have a tiny chance but it’s not likely

Steve's partner was sending OM very personal photos before his sitch turned around!

Suppose we ended it today, what would be our next steps? GAL, 180 what holds us back in life. Suppose we didn't end it today, what would be our next steps? GAL, 180 what holds us back in life. I have no burning desire to download Tinder today--GAL, 180s, wait and see what shakes out maximizes our chances.

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I think it clicked. Like I feel awake. I was under the illusion she was really conflicted about what to do. I’m starting to think she isn’t. She may have had the tiniest of second thoughts from my 180s and lack of P&P. But I took it for more than it was.

I gotta go find myself

What are my chances of reconciliation. Give it to me straight. If I dB perfectly. What’s my chances


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Oz,

Please clarify things if I am not correct:


1) Oz was single playing in a band. Not much experience with women.
2) Oz meets W.
3) Oz gets her pregnant.
4) Oz marries her.
5) special needs S is born.

5) Oz and W move to rural area and OZ is a farmer. W deals with SN son while OZ works alot.
W tells oz she has never been faithful before
6) Resentment build up over time W is unhappy
7) OZ and W move back to her town.
8) W is texting alot and has secret lunches with co-worker
9) Sex life [censored]
10) Oz gets bomb dropped
11) OZ becomes super husband
12) Oz finds DB site
13) Oz gets all kinds of confusing advise.Some or all seams foreign or conflicting.
14) Oz wants to gets his balls back from his W, but he doesn't know how.


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Originally Posted by ozman
I think it clicked. Like I feel awake. I was under the illusion she was really conflicted about what to do. I’m starting to think she isn’t. She may have had the tiniest of second thoughts from my 180s and lack of P&P. But I took it for more than it was.

I gotta go find myself

What are my chances of reconciliation. Give it to me straight. If I dB perfectly. What’s my chances


Only she knows that......and you DO NOT want to ask her.


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Originally Posted by ozman
What are my chances of reconciliation. Give it to me straight. If I dB perfectly. What’s my chances
Anywhere from 0-100%. I have seen examples where someone DB's perfect and they do not reconcile. Other examples of people doing everything wrong and the spouse has a change of heart. Each sitch is different.


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R2C. Wow. You summed up my adulthood in one fell swoop. Well done

This really [censored]. And hurts.


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ozman, chin up. Remember, you are in control of your life. I get the impression you don't think that.


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No. My parents. My teachers. My peers. My money my cancer and now my wife. All those have controlled me


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It’s really something seeing your life summed up in 14 bullet points. Wow.

All of a sudden my wife seems very foreign to me. Like she is on a path I cannot follow. Like she is blinded by pain and loneliness and she is looking for something to fill the void

She probably has this wild crush on a guy who is mysterious and cool and new. (Like a new car). And when she comes home it’s to her husband who is

Not mysterious.
Has a lot of debt
Brought lots of baggage
Chronically ill
Weird balding spot from radiation damage


I guess I get it.

Something she said night of bomb drop. “I didn’t ask for this”. Then she brought up cancer.

Yup she is a different person. I miss the old her. But this new her is kinda like a child

I think I’m gonna go to this wedding. (It’s at a casino). And get my proof. Or maybe I don’t want proof. I don’t know. All I know is that for the first time I feel like giving up


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Originally Posted by ozman
It’s really something seeing your life summed up in 14 bullet points. Wow.


Most here all have the same bullets, maybe a few if different order like with the marriage first then the children. Or no children.


Here are the next two of the list:

15) OZ decided he needs to be happy without W. Oz GAL and does exciting things without W. Oz splits parenting responsibilities 50/50 with W. OZ is supper dad.
16) Oz learns how to be attractive to all women. He maintains his personal boundaries. He does not let fear control him.


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Oz, I know you said money is tight, but go buy a box of 50 rounds. Go to the gun range. And put 50 holes in a paper target.

The concentration it takes. The focus it takes. The way that shooting consumes all of your attention. It will do your mind well! I wouldn't have traded the gun range for anything going through my sitch.


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Originally Posted by lost8
and if you look at my stats in my signature, I was in the mode you are in for about 6-7 months, thought I was there then would spiral back. Back and forth, losing my mind for months.

Then I did decide that I have two kids, I want to be happy, I'm not doing this anymore. And I tell you I thought I dropped the rope about 10 times along the way....it's not easy.


And that's theTruth dropping the Rope 10 times along the way.

You could be good for days or even weeks or even months just trying to focus on yourself, and then all the sudden out of the blue you have a moment of weakness where you remember the past, and how things were. Then you have to remind yourself to not give in to that weakness and be strong and remember that the person that you are with now is not the person that you remember. it's cold but they don't love you anymore like they used to and I don't think of you the way they used to in that moment of weakness when you think of it. This is what essentially creates the internal struggles within ourselves. That you have to make a hard and concise decision on whether to walk away or not from keeping on dealing with the emotional pain that things aren't the way that they used to be, and any life looks better and more appealing than limbo. But what we secretly and really wish for is a work through these things in our marriage so that we don't lose it lose the person that we truly love. But we still have to put principal before passion if we ever are going to make the wiser choice. I'm willing to bet that a lot of you here if your W came to you immediately today and said hey let's reconcile? After all we put them through and all they put us through, you know that there's going to be some terms and conditions on both parties.

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How do you grieve all this. What do I do with the last 10 years of good memories. The vacations. The good times. We didn’t have many bad times. We didn’t fight hardly at all. She always has bragged about our conflict resolution and how well we got along to other people

We filled each other’s gaps we would say. (Rocky movies)


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Originally Posted by ozman
How do you grieve all this. What do I do with the last 10 years of good memories. The vacations. The good times. We didn’t have many bad times. We didn’t fight hardly at all. She always has bragged about our conflict resolution and how well we got along to other people

We filled each other’s gaps we would say. (Rocky movies)



ozman. How would you grieve if your W were to have died on BD, instead of BDing you? It is very similar. It is okay to grieve. The loss is real. Do not run from your emotions. Just don't have your emotions shown in front of her. Go cry in private. Grieving is a process. Go through the process.


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Originally Posted by ozman
How do you grieve all this. What do I do with the last 10 years of good memories. The vacations. The good times. We didn’t have many bad times. We didn’t fight hardly at all. She always has bragged about our conflict resolution and how well we got along to other people

We filled each other’s gaps we would say. (Rocky movies)



Yeah I bet you make a sharp couple of coconuts! Remember what I said? Take her to the zoo!

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How do you grieve? I did my bawling on the drive home from work, or going for walks at night. Let it out. It does get better.

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Originally Posted by ozman
How do you grieve all this
Make time for it. Do it in private. Do it in the car. Find a parking lot without too many people. Park and cry or scream....NEVER in front of wife. Get yourself back together. Then be happy while she is around. (Crazy I know). Cry quietly in the shower if needed. Put music on loud while in the shower.



Quote
What do I do with the last 10 years of good memories. The vacations. The good times.
They are your memories. Keep them. If they make you feel good, then bring them to your mind when needed.

Anytime you want to feel good, bring up good memories. When W is spewing at you..tune her out and think about good memories.



You can handle this.


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Shower worked for me. I took a lot of long hot ones after BD. Luckily I didn't punch too hard to break anything.


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We really did make a sharp couple of coconuts. Lol

The memories are awesome. But very painful. They hurt a lot. Like a lot.

I’m still afraid GAL is gonnna make it worse but I kinda see now. She needs to miss me. Plus it’s good FOR me right?
What if I’m miserable when I’m GAL?

How many of these end in reconciliation?

Also is going to wedding at the casino a bad idea. I could probably go unnoticed. If she is in A I want proof.

Why would she deny it if I ask? If I make her so miserable why stay.


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Yea I beat the crap out of my steering wheel yesterday. Then I felt bad for the wheel lol. I’m not a violent person at all. I just don’t get it.

How could you specifically tell someone. “ I would leave you before I would cheat”. And then cheat


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Originally Posted by ozman
The memories are awesome. But very painful. They hurt a lot. Like a lot.

Yep they do hurt. I really start to slide downhill when I think about them, so I don't do it much. Working on living in the moment and not in the future nor the past is how im working through it.

Originally Posted by ozman
I'm still afraid GAL is gonnna make it worse but I kinda see now. She needs to miss me. Plus it's good FOR me right?

Its ok to be afraid of trying something new. You'll never know unless you try. Like really try; not just a half effort once that doesn't really work because your heart isn't into it and you just concede defeat and go home and tell yourself that it didn't work. It is a GOOD THING FOR YOU!

Originally Posted by ozman
What if I'm miserable when I'm GAL?

Then you aren't in the right mindset. If you like to shoot guns, why would you be miserable shooting guns? I would propose its because you're busy thinking about her instead of what you are doing. GAL will take your mind off the situation at home, and that is for you because it is healthy for your mind and body.

Originally Posted by ozman
How many of these end in reconciliation?
Go get 5 dice, roll them and count all the dots. Then throw the dice in the trash. Eat a hotdog. Stand on your head. You nor anyone else can tell you this answer. Some do, some don't.

Originally Posted by ozman
Also is going to wedding at the casino a bad idea. I could probably go unnoticed. If she is in A I want proof.

What would it do for you? Would it make you feel better or worse to know? How would you feel if she caught you there spying on her and she wasn't with some OM? Might just wreck any progress to this point. Something to think about, because every decision has a consequence.

Originally Posted by ozman
Why would she deny it if I ask? If I make her so miserable why stay.

More than likely; from what ive read on here the only time they fess up to anything is if you have concrete proof. Dont bluff. You've either got her beat or you are beaten. Live to play another hand.


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Originally Posted by ozman
Yea I beat the crap out of my steering wheel yesterday. Then I felt bad for the wheel lol. I’m not a violent person at all. I just don’t get it.

How could you specifically tell someone. “ I would leave you before I would cheat”. And then cheat


Go workout. This pent up energy can be positively discharged in a good way. Your steering wheel is a tough cookie but might decide to spit an airbag at you someday when it gets fed up. :-)

Do you THINK she is cheating, or do you KNOW she is cheating? I know that 98% of these things are going that way, but you are worrying about something you can't control. If she is, then she is. If she isn't, then she didn't violate her own word.


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Originally Posted by "Ozman"
Why would she deny it if I ask? If I make her so miserable why stay.

Hi Ozman, for the same reason people wait to get an offer letter at a new job before leaving the old one. I've had multiple women ask me to be their boyfriend *while in an existing relationship*. They didn't want to leave their current partner unless and until they felt financially and emotionally supported elsewhere.

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
Also is going to wedding at the casino a bad idea. I could probably go unnoticed. If she is in A I want proof..

It sounds like a bad idea since you said an EA wouldn't be the end for you. If she dances with someone, will that make you feel any better or your mind any more certain? If detected, you play the paranoid husband, or the controlling ex who just can't understand "It's over" and that now she's free to do what she wants.

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Originally Posted by "LB55"
Then you aren't in the right mindset. If you like to shoot guns, why would you be miserable shooting guns? I would propose its because you're busy thinking about her instead of what you are doing. GAL will take your mind off the situation at home, and that is for you because it is healthy for your mind and body.

Well said.

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Originally Posted by unchien
How do you grieve? I did my bawling on the drive home from work, or going for walks at night. Let it out. It does get better.

That's exactly what I did. How's everyone handling their dreams?

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Well I’m pretty sure no one at her job knows she is married. Cause a wedding is something you take a spouse to. If she dances with someone that wouldn’t bother me. People dance at a wedding.

I just got a ball in my gut saying the wedding is when EA turns into PA. perfect opportunity. If she is really late “I was at the party”. She knows I won’t be there. Plus weddings usually tend to put people in the mood. Her crush will be there I’m sure and it’s the first time they can be together with no constraints.

I just have a bad feeling

I could get over an EA with time. I’m not so sure about a PA. I know sex for a woman is a lot more emotional than it is for a man. If she goes that far. Im not sure.


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oz, you've already said most of this. Try to calm down. Remember, you need to be focused on yourself. You are laserfocused in her and driving yourself crazy.


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I just don’t know if I could handle her physically cheating. If you go that far.....

I’m not focused on her. I’m just trying to brace myself. I know it’s gonna hurt if it happens I actually don’t think she has PA yet. I hope she doesn’t. It’s pissibke she hasn’t EA. But I think she is. I caught a glimpse of the person she was chatting with. I do not believe he is mire than a friend

I went to pool again today. This time I just focused on having a good time with S. Talked to a friend about the Chiefs
And didn’t pay much attention to her. It was hard. But I did it

I never learned to swim. There is no water in Sw Kansas and my parents were to busy on the farm to teach me.

I’m gonna teach myself this summer.


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I'm learning to play guitar. Just bought one, got and app, and ran with it. I really enjoy it. And i can disappear in my room and avoid. And she can hear my fun. And then I just go out after for a drive or go to gym. Reconnecting with myself. Next month i extend a business trip to see an old friend. Now i have something to look forward to.

So yeah, I face my fear and just do it. Think of that Seinfeld episode the opposite. Watch it for inspiration.


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Originally Posted by ozman
I never learned to swim.
I’m gonna teach myself this summer.


Good - this is an important life skill as many people die of drownings each year.

Teach your son too!


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Josh T that’s awesome. Don’t give up when your fingers get sore. Play till you have calluses!

I caught a glance of who she was msging late last night. It was a girlfriend of hers. So maybe it’s not as bad as I thought. I just want to be over this nonsense. I hate it.

I still can’t imagine not getting her back

It’s so hard to focus on work. I’m just so heartbroken. I’ve never been heartbroken before. I’ve had friends give me that there is other fish in the sea stuff. I hate hearing it.

Can you ever trust a woman again after this?

My grandpa couldn’t. He’s been single for 65 years


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Oz I hate to burst your bubble but our instincts are usually correct, especially when you have been with someone this long. You know something is different and if you suspect that strongly that something is going on it probably is.

Did you see the actual text or just the contact? My WW changed OMs name in her contacts multiple times...the best was changing it to a girl's name to throw me off.

As far as the trust thing....this is my second go round in 11 years....can I ever trust her again? Unfortunately not fully after 2xs but my decision to stay is my decision. I found myself in the time while she was wayward......and I don't look at it as I won her back....I look at it as I won myself back....I like who I am again and I think that is what brought her back.

We have a different relationship so far...yeah a bit weird at times but again this is what I chose. Some people can't handle a WW and walk away. I think if I would have done that from the start I would still be the old me trying to move on...I like the new me and whatever happens in the future I can deal with now.


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Does glancing at her phone while she messages alpha or beta behavior?


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I don’t know Steve. I really don’t. Is not caring if she is messing around and sticking my head in the sand alpha or beta. I don’t get it

Instincts tell me an alpha would get to the bottom of it. If she is then kick her to the curb, D her then move on. Problem is I don’t want to do that

I want her to come to her senses before she does permanently wreck our M. I’m still not sure there is anything going on. Im just really suspicious

And if she did PA. and decided to come back. Could I ever sleep with her again. Every time we tried all I would be able to think about is OM on top of her.

That thought makes me want to throw up

This wedding tomorrow night. I wish there is some way I could stop it. It’s like watching a car crash about to happen but your paralyzed to stop it

Guys I’m really suffering here. Like really bad. I’m hiding out at work.

I feel terrible because I DO think a PA is a deal breaker. And I think it’s about to happen. I I just want so badly to stop it

This if she does. I’m done. But I don’t want to be


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Think ahead.....if you go to the wedding and get the proof you need. Then what? Do you stick your head in the sand and ignore? Do you take aggressive action and do what any self respecting man would do? If you dont go then what? Do you continue with the cat and mouse games, wondering, looking over her shoulder, etc. continuing to rake yourself over the emotional coals? Do you stop snooping, start to work on detaching, work on yourself, get a life, and leave her to her own mess? What's your plan?


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Ok I'll answer. It is beta behavior. No an alpha wouldn't even be in this situation. If you had been an alpha before all of this you wouldn't be in this situation.

We have taught you DB principles since you first posted. Put those into action.

Get a babysitter Saturday night and go out, on your own! Avoid the casino. No good can come from you showing upp there.

I am guessing this (your previous post) is how the pre-BD ozman handled crisises. By hand wringing, and worrying. You know how much worrying has ever helped in a tough situation? SQUAT. That how much. So stop being a worrier and start focusing on how ozman can become AMOFWL. 180 on this beta behavior and go become that alpha.

I'd like for you to explain to me how, the above post, shows that you are working on detachment. I see a lot of maybes...what ifs......etc. If you are going to move forward, whether there is an EA or a PA, you need to stop focusing on her behavior. Do you know how much of her behavior you can control? ZERO NONE NADA ZIP So stop trying.

"This wedding tomorrow night. I wish there is some way I could stop it. It’s like watching a car crash about to happen but your paralyzed to stop it"

Yep it is like that because you have ZERO CONTROL. Even if you showed up at the wedding, and stopped it. Do you think you would prevent a PA? Do you know what lengths cheaters go to in order to cheat? And trust me, if they are going to cheat, then they may already have!! 13 years ago a best friend couple of ours started having trouble. The W started cheating on the H. When it all came out the W was meeting with her coworker and cheating ON THE WAY TO WORK. AT LUNCH. ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK. They took vacation time and told their spouses they were going on business trips, which were really personal vacation trips together. If it is going to happen there is NOTHING you can do. NOTHING.

But none of that matters. The truth will come out. The truth always comes out. But I can tell you oz you have a lot of work to do to prepare for the truth. Because right now if the truth came out that she was in an EA and/or a PA, I fear it would destroy you. And that isn't AMOFWL.


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Oz,

When you have a choice to make, take time to evaluate all the options. The pro's the con's. Decide what makes sense to you and make a decision. Live with the consequence of that decision. Rinse and repeat.


If you always go left, change it up and go right for a while. Then work on going straight for a while. Learn to change direction as needed without going fully left or right as the sitch changes.

Do this in all areas of your life. Sometimes I need to shut up and just listen and validate. Other times, I need to ask the other person to not talk and just listen to me. Most of the time it is someplace in the middle.

There are 1000 shades of gray between black and while. Don't always be black or white, but learn to be both and several shades of grey.




You can go to the wedding.
You can go play darts.
And there are hundreds of options in between such as hire a PI to figure out details or have a friend gather some intel.

What is best for you?

Read this post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061092


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AMOFWL? What’s that mean?

I would want to know if she is so I could confront her.

If and when I find out. How do you react. What do you say. What are the first words out of your mouth? How do you control your emotions?

And

We have no body to babysit except her family How do I tell them I need a sitter without saying wife went to wedding without me?


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I really want to say to her

I love you and we had something awesome and we still can. I know there is something going on with OM

But if you sleep with him we are done, I will D you

I know this will not work.

I JUST WANT TO DO SOMETHING!!!! I want to knock some sense into her. To fight for her.

I have spent my whole life being passive and she knows it. How in the hell does being passive now help


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Hi Ozman,

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
If and when I find out. How do you react.
I was worried about that. You say you want to snoop because if it's a PA it's over. In that case I'd say nothing. Over means done. No point to confront or for further dialogue. Then I'd focus on me, my kids, and cordial logistics with her like co-parenting. I see confused thinking. Why do you want to know?

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
We have no body to babysit except her family How do I tell them I need a sitter without saying wife went to wedding without me?

WE have nobody to babysit? How do YOU tell her family? Why are you trying to help solve her problem, when the problem is how to go to a wedding with an easy-talking co-worker without you?!

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Ummm yeah.....dont say any of that. So if you go to the wedding are you going to hide in the bushes? Video tape her from a far? Lurk in the shadows and when you see her and OM doing something go confront them on the spot? What's the plan?


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Originally Posted by ozman
AMOFWL? What’s that mean?

I would want to know if she is so I could confront her.

If and when I find out. How do you react. What do you say. What are the first words out of your mouth? How do you control your emotions?

And

We have no body to babysit except her family How do I tell them I need a sitter without saying wife went to wedding without me?


A Man Only A Fool Would Leave

Did you not read the acronym thread? You should.

So you want to confront her.....but have no idea what that entails? oz you really need to think through things a little better. You see, most LBHs lie to themselves. "I want to know so I can confront her." That isn't true at all, is it? What you really want is to know she ISN'T cheating. And you are using "wanting to confront her" as an excuse for snooping. Digging. Etc.

If you want to know the truth, there is no shame in that. Admit it. However, you need to understand that if you find out she is cheating (PA) then there are things you have to be willing to do. And talking is the last thing you should do! If she is in a PA:

1) You move her out of the MBR. Don't say anything, just take all of her stuff out of the MBR and put it in another room. When she asks what is going on you say: "I know what is going on. I refuse to share the MBR with a cheater." Do not tell her how your know. Do not show her how you know.

2) You double down on GAL. As in you come up with a schedule of nights and weekends you will be home with S8, and nights and weekends you will be out doing other things. Stick to it.

3) If you really can't get over the D, then you have to go talk to a lawyer and file for D. (Most LBHs later come to the realization that they can get over a PA, so make sure you REALLY can't and want a D before taking this step.)

4) Detach. Fully. Do not start conversations. If she catches you and starts a conversation, listen and validate. When you are out ignore her calls. If she texts you do not respond unless it is a direct question. Even then you only answer after some time has passed....and with as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.

5) You stop any and all work around the house that isn't directly related to you or S8's activities. Do not wash her clothes, only yours and S8's. Do not clean up after her, no matter how big of a mess she makes. You clean up after yourself and S8. THAT'S IT.

oz, if you are ready for 1-5, then by all means start doing recon. If you have access to her email and phone, check it. Check phone records. Look up numbers that look suspicion or have a lot of activity. Hire a PI if you have to. Follow her. Just be aware that all of this can backfire, badly. If you get caught doing these thingsand she is innocent it could be the final straw to push her to file for D. Even worse, if she isn't innocent, it could cause her to say "okay, he knows now!" and go full bore. We've seen many LBHs here that have found out about a PA, confronted, and the WAW/WW just flat out started dating the OM.

oz, this is not an easy road. Be sure you are ready to handle all of this. It is a big step. Like I said before I get the impression that you aren't at a place yet to handle the truth if in fact she is in an EA or PA. If she is you have to be prepared to react confidently and decisively. No asking why. No begging and pleading. No crying in front of her. The moment you find out, you start commanding her respect....with actions not words. I laid it out for you in 1-5 above. You'll have to grow a spine, man-up, and be the king of your castle.

Are you ready for that?


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Originally Posted by CWarrior

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
We have no body to babysit except her family How do I tell them I need a sitter without saying wife went to wedding without me?

WE have nobody to babysit? How do YOU tell her family? Why are you trying to help solve her problem, when the problem is how to go to a wedding with an easy-talking co-worker without you?!


This.

"Hey SiL, can you baby sit for a few hours Saturday night?"

If she says, sure. When you drop S8 and she asks "Where is W?" You say: "She went to a work wedding. I have other plans. Thanks for babysitting!"

If SiL pries more, jus say "I wasn't invited to the wedding." Leave it at that.

People aren't stupid, your SiL will start putting it together. She probably knows more than you even think already. But as CW said, that isn't your problem.

Last edited by Steve85; 07/19/19 03:35 PM.

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Originally Posted by ozman
I really want to say to her

I love you and we had something awesome and we still can. I know there is something going on with OM

But if you sleep with him we are done, I will D you

I know this will not work.

I JUST WANT TO DO SOMETHING!!!! I want to knock some sense into her. To fight for her.

I have spent my whole life being passive and she knows it. How in the hell does being passive now help


Weak. Needy. Not commanding of respect.

Women are attracted to men they respect. Your efforts from this point forward should be to command her respect. You don't do that with words. You do it with action.


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When I say I don’t get DBing. I mean it. I have been doing a lot of 4 already. Is that bad? I let her calls go to voicemail then I call back later. I don’t text and when she does I keep replies short

I really DO want to know. I would love to find out she isn’t cheating. But if she is what is the benefit to not knowing. Explain that please

When I was told I might have brain cancer they thought it might be a cyst. It was much harder not knowing. I wanted it to be a cyst REALLY bad. But the limbo was crushing me. When I found out it was cancer I was crushed. But then the wondering was gone. I had an objective. I just had to figure out best plan of attack


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Originally Posted by "Ozman"
But if she is what is the benefit to not knowing. Explain that please

1. There is a not insignificant chance of Ozman getting caught and doing significant damage.
2. You have not outlined positive actions you'd take upon learning that outweigh the above disadvantage. In fact, you indicated more passive talk. "What are the first words out of your mouth?"
3. Steve85's: "I get the impression that you aren't at a place yet to handle the truth."

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If you know she is and you confront her you have to be prepared to go all the way. If you dont confront her and you DB like a mad man and leave her to her mess it buys you time.

If she knows you know and you do nothing but profess your love for her and pursue her she and the OM will sit back, laugh, and she will lose even more respect for you.


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Just to give you a female perspective on this.... For women, knowing their man had an EA can be more devastating than a PA. We think about emotions being involved and that meaning more than just sex. For most men I know, it's the opposite. They do not want their women to have a PA because that means more to them than the emotional part.

Let me break it to you, women can have sex without a lot of emotions attached just like men. They can have sex and it not mean very much to them just like men can. It can make them field good in the moment, it can block out other painful thoughts, and feelings and confusion about their life.

From what I've been reading on this and another forum related to MLC, it is common for these MLC, WAW, WAY spouses to connect with people who they perceive to be "just like them" However, "just like them" mirrors how they perceive themselves at this time when all the confusion of what they want has set in. It's usually not about that person being "better than the spouse." It's about availability, it's about lack of complication with that person, it's about limerence, feeling attractive in the affair partner's eyes, and the other reasons I listed above, but it's usually not about love. I think that is why, most on this and my other forum advise to disregard the magnitude or importance of the affair and minimize it in your mind. You can't control whether it happens or not, you can only work on you! In your wife's mind, she has checked out of the marriage and she may not even believe what she is doing is wrong.

As others have mentioned, working on you makes you more appealing and more attractive so your spouse can see that there is something to fight for and lets her know that you are able to move forward without her so they may start to have a fear of loss. If they don't come back, it sets you up for better relationships in the future. I know that this is easy to understand in your brain and but hard to reconcile with your feelings and much easier said than done but this is why the forum is here to help.

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In my book. There is nothing you can do to be closer to somebody than to ML with them. If she shares that part of herself. I don’t think I could ever feel that connection with her again


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Originally Posted by ozman
When I say I don’t get DBing. I mean it. I have been doing a lot of 4 already. Is that bad? I let her calls go to voicemail then I call back later. I don’t text and when she does I keep replies short

I really DO want to know. I would love to find out she isn’t cheating. But if she is what is the benefit to not knowing. Explain that please

When I was told I might have brain cancer they thought it might be a cyst. It was much harder not knowing. I wanted it to be a cyst REALLY bad. But the limbo was crushing me. When I found out it was cancer I was crushed. But then the wondering was gone. I had an objective. I just had to figure out best plan of attack


First, on doing #4, no you haven't. You've done a little, but not fully. As proven by the "want to go swimming" exchange.

And when you found out it was cancer, you took action! If you find out she is cheating, you need to be prepared to do the same.


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Originally Posted by ozman
In my book. There is nothing you can do to be closer to somebody than to ML with them. If she shares that part of herself. I don’t think I could ever feel that connection with her again


Not going to tell you that you are wrong. But you can have sex without making love.

Originally Posted by ozman
When I say I don’t get DBing. I mean it. I have been doing a lot of 4 already. Is that bad? I let her calls go to voicemail then I call back later. I don’t text and when she does I keep replies short



DBing is quite simple. GAL. Detach. Work on bettering yourself (180s). You don't get it because I don't think you want to. You are too impulsive, reactive, and if something feels counter-intuitive to you then you make excuses, hem-haw around, flat out ignore. Go back up and read that very long post I sent you. It was a post about being ready to take action IF she is in a PA. You gleaned the one thing out of it (#4 fully detaching) and then tried to say you were already doing that. Did you understand that my point was if she is in a PA then your DBing efforts just become even more arduous?

Notice, I said "4) Detach. Fully. Do not start conversations. If she catches you and starts a conversation, listen and validate. When you are out ignore her calls. If she texts you do not respond unless it is a direct question. Even then you only answer after some time has passed....and with as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers."

Then you said: "I have been doing a lot of 4 already. Is that bad? I let her calls go to voicemail then I call back later. I don’t text and when she does I keep replies short"

A lot? Dude, you haven't even been close to what I said. What I described is one step above going completely dark on her. You came back and said "I've been doing a lot of 4 already. I let her calls go to vm and then I call back later. I don't text and when she does I keep replies short"

My message was "If you find out she is in a PA YOU DON'T CALL HER BACK!!! YOU DON'T TEXT HER BACK, unless it is a direct question....and then only with yes or no if appropriate, and extremely brief otherwise!"

Here is from your last thread:

Originally Posted by ozman
H. Hey I missed a call from you
W. Ya I went to sisters house to pick up S. We got invited to swim. You wanna go?
H. Hmm sounds nice it’s really hot out, you wanna go?
W. Hmm maybe. It is really hot
H. Well if not I think I’m gonna hit the shower and check out the pottery shop around the corner
W. (Voice changes forum upbeat, happy and content to a little irritated and like WTF). Uuuhhhh ok? I guess what are you gonna do)
H. Well swimming does sound nice too
W. Ok I’ll talk to (family) and see if they still want to
H. Ok well if I don’t answer I’m in shower


How is that even close to what i said in #4?!?

So many non-DBing mistakes in that quote.

YOU started the exchange.
YOU asked her if she wanted to swim.
YOU said "if you don't want to swim then I am gonna GAL. (WHAT?!?!)
YOU said what your GAL was going to be. (NO! You just go. "Sorry, I have a couple things I want to do. Have fun swimming."
YOU reacted to voice changing to irritated by 1) Giving up GAL 2) Going over to swim with her 3) Not being detached even in the slightest!

ozman, we've had other posters here that claimed later "I tried GAL, it didn't work." In every single case they talked about DBing but never actually did it.

Last edited by Steve85; 07/19/19 05:24 PM.

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Sigh. I’m just panicked. I thought maybe I had detached some but it turn out I haven’t. I’m falling apart. I don’t know how to detach. To “not care”. You guys helped me understand yesterday that in her head nothing changed. She’s just being nice. It was only me perception that changed. I have dB a little. That’s why she opened up to me some. But I have done a terrible job other wise. I know what I need to do. I just don’t know “how” to do it

And I can’t get over this potential PA thing. Its consuming me.

I just want it to stop. I don’t get it. I don’t get how a person could do this

Everyone. And I mean everyone in my life at one point has told me I’m not with having. I thought she was different

I feel like like I have been discarded. Like some piece of trash. And tomorrow night. She is goona close the trash can lid


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Is this worse because she is my first love?


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Originally Posted by "Ozman"
I don’t know how to detach. To “not care”..

For me it took three "Aha!" moments:

"Aha! #1" was on when I burst the illusion life with her was so dreamy, and began rating my happiness over the last nine days where we'd interacted--5 out of 10! Logically, it's possible to do better solo.

"Aha! #2" was when she broke a second commitment.

"Aha! #3" was when I spent an evening doing what I enjoyed and rated it higher than 5 out of 10!

What this all means is I can be whole and well on my own. I don't need her in my life. I'm rooting for her. I hope she is part of my life. But I will have a good next year no matter what.

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Santa clause is not real. That does not mean we should tell children the truth. We let them believe the fairy tail as long as possible. At some point someone tells the child that mommy is santa. Now the child is confused. Time for the child to seek the truth.

Same thing with wedding vows. We let the couple believe this. Some may live the fantasy. Most will not. You lived the fantasy. ILYBNILWY does not line up with the fantasy. Now you are confused. Time to seek the truth. Most likely your wife has feelings for another man.



OZ"So what do I do????"


R2C highly recommends doing nothing right now but reading, understanding and making a plan.

Read this thread very carefully all the way to the end:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2039619&page=all

PuppyDogTails, AllenA, Gucci, RobX, Steve85, AS, Sandi2, Coach are very wise and you should listen and understand as much from these people as possible. There will be conflicting advise. That is OK. Best to understand as many of your options as possible, and the likely outcomes.



If I could, I would take over your body and DB your wife back. It would be easy for me, I am not emotionally attached to her. Woman are easy to seduce.


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Originally Posted by ozman
. And tomorrow night. She is goona close the trash can lid
Just don't get in the trash can. Let her close it and open it as many times as she wants.


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Originally Posted by ozman


Everyone. And I mean everyone in my life at one point has told me I’m not with having. I thought she was different


Self worth comes from within, not from without. If you need other people to value you in order to value yourself, then you are in need of some pretty good therapy. I know you insist you can't afford it. But at this point I don't think you can afford to not get into IC.


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Originally Posted by ozman
Is this worse because she is my first love?


No. It is worse because you are unhealthily co-dependent on her.


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I don't think people are saying "don't care" because clearly you are not at that point. They are saying "fake it til you make it" then it will start to get easier. The point is not to dislike, not care about, or kill any feelings you have for your wife. The point is to back off and detach so you can get some perspective on what you want in your life moving forward and demonstrate that you are not always going to be waiting in the wings as a "Plan B"

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Ok thank you. I will read that thread when I get home R2C

So the consensus is I should not go to wedding. Go out and GAL instead

If she’s having affair then so be it? Recon or no recon?

I’m trying to pound into my brain that my relationship with her is unhealthy

How do I detach without just not caring. I’ve read the thread again and again. I just can’t get it.

Steve. I don’t cherry pick. It’s just you guys make this seem so easy and I feel stuck I’m really trying but my hugest efforts feel like nothing.

How do I let myself be ok with her laying down on her back and letting another man get on top of her

How. How do I let go. HOW do I do that and still love her HOW do I do that and feel nothing but hate

HOW!!!


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Originally Posted by ozman
Ok thank you. I will read that thread when I get home R2C

read every post I have quoted There are 8 threads. Take notes.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984#Post2846984
Try to wrap your brain around new ways to interact.

Quote

So the consensus is I should not go to wedding. Go out and GAL instead
YES. Want a tattoo? Go get one. Need a haircut, Go get one. Want a new style, go shopping. You don't have to buy anything. Find some local music. Go listen. Personally I recommend not drinking alcohol during this process. Go to a bar and drink water. People watch. Watch how two women talk. One is talking and the other is listen and sometimes validating. Watch the sunset. Watch the sunrise. Walk in the rain. Be safe and do not walk in a thunderstorm



Quote
If she’s having affair then so be it? Recon or no recon?
Do nothing right now. Be observant.


Quote

How do I detach without just not caring. I’ve read the thread again and again. I just can’t get it.
Might have to not care for a while.

Quote

How do I let myself be ok with her laying down on her back and letting another man get on top of her
Do not let your imagination control you. wait for the truth. Keep working on you in the mean time.


Quote
How. How do I let go. HOW do I do that and still love her HOW do I do that and feel nothing but hate HOW!!!
Control your thoughts. Do not let your thoughts control you.


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Words I found helpful to understand:

Disillusionment, Sanctification, Attitude, Awareness, Adaptation, Strength, Confidence, Patience, Perseverance, Forgiveness, Listening, Understanding, Honor, Boundaries, Validation, Empathy, Compassion, Seduction, Balance, Faith, Hope, Kindness, Respect, Flirting, Humor

Helpful mantras:

"One more day to be myself", "Remember, It all starts with me", "They will be done", "A man reaps what he sows","What is best for my kids is best for me"


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Ozman. To some degree all of us here are suffering from the same situations weather at the Affairs are people walking away or emotional Affairs or spouse is moving towards divorce plus all the financial and legal battles and all the other crap involved with custody. We go back and forth in our own heads of who we thought this person wasn't who they are now and who we perceive them to be what some of the signs were there all along.

There are going to be moments where you try to convince yourself of something and it won't stick because your emotions conflict with your thoughts, your wants and your needs. Everyday I drive myself [censored] crazy going back and forth between the past memories, who my wife is now what she's doing, and whether she may or may not be cheating. It feels like one gigantic chess board only we're playing multiple boards at the same time trying to figure out all the legal stuff figure out all the emotional stuff from within ourselves and our situation. I know it's all the situations and advise here it gets very confusing because so many things apply to other people situations into our own sich's and it can become overwhelming on what to do because of time being of the essence and learning.

Maybe this will help. There is no one on earth, not even your W or S ( well children are debatable) that is more important than yourself, your well-being, your security, your happiness, your future, and your confidence. No one. Everyday I go through parts of my day being really down on myself and really down on my situation and depressed and then I flip flop between that, then I'm getting cocky with myself that I'm better than this person that's leaving the marriage. I've realized it after reading so many stitches here, all these issues within all these marriages come down to self-respect healthy boundaries wants and needs communication validation compassion self integrity core principles and values.

Everyone here says a lot being happy is a choice. It has to be acquired from within. Even though I've realized this for 7 months in my sich, I was talking a good game but I didn't really believe it. I've also realized that all the self-help stuff my wife is red she also talks a good game but you can tell by her actions she doesn't commit to it or believe it either when it comes to bettering herself. we are most likely divorce in and we are moving towards mediation. maybe we actually will and maybe we actually won't but I'll tell you one thing. If you're going to decide to divorce you better get yourself healthy and in the right mindset and make that decision for a position of strength and confidence and not from weakness and being emotional. It's hard to detach and GAL I know I get it. going through all this both people wind up losing their identities cuz there were coupled together for so long. What I want to end this on is our own happiness is a choice and we do have that choice. When you finally get to that point where you're so tired of being miserable, then you will choose it annual say hey I can control my state of mind I can control my emotions I can control my self despite all this chaos going on around me. When you choose that happiness, then your gal will go from being a distraction to having meaning and purpose. People try to fill emotional voids in their lives by seeking other people or seeking Pleasures or seeking Hobbies or seeking activities oor seeking experiences, or seeking knowledge. All these things are good to pursue but if we're seeking something outside of ourselves to fill that void it will never be filled. Until we starting the side that we want to stop being a bottomless pit that consumes everything around us in hopes of fulfilling a void in our lives. Doesn't matter if it's conference emotional connection sex experiences traveling Pleasures money booze drugs affairs whatever We will never be satisfied. And neither will anyone else pursuing that for those reasons. this is going to sound counterintuitive but I want you to try being so miserable to the point where it's pathetic to where you no longer want to choose misery anymore and choose happiness choose it first and foremost for yourself in every moment and everything that you do and then go and pursue your GAL activities with people that you care about and care for you. if a significant other or a person or a friend or a family member isn't serving your needs at this moment in time then let them go. it took me so long to realize this that that's what everyone was trying to say here in the very beginning about focusing on yourself. You were complete before you met your wife and you can be complete again. do you want to waste more months of your life worrying about how this is all going to turn out? or are you going to make the best of it and make us clearance decisions as possible without all the hemming and hawing and make a good attempt to make the best out of the situation in the best person that you can be. Until we feel enough pain and want to change bad enough to wear want to move away from that pain for ourselves there is no way in hell we could ever attract another person back into our life, or introduce a new person to it for that matter because then we will keep repeating the cycle without any real meaningful change in ourselves. if we want love and our lives we need to choose it and not because we need it. This is essentially what everyone is saying when they say love yourself first. Because no one else is going to do it for you

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I also realize I needed a lesson in more action and less words

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The Vets here may agree or disagree on this one. But you need to make it crystal clear to your wife that you do not wish to spend any time with her unless she wants to spend time with you and that is only under the circumstances on whether you are doing something for yourself or not not doing something for them. They are the ones that are leaving the marriage. Even then it still doesn't mean anything in the current moment. If they want to reconcile you will know you will not be confused if you are confused then those little glimmers of hope don't mean anything. They are just being friendly to the person willing to be in the friend zone.

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Now I’m even more confused.


Me 32. W. 30
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Originally Posted by ozman
Now I’m even more confused.


About?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Oz, learn to love yourself. Learn to live with yourself. Value yourself.

Be patient. Enjoy S8. Don´t let your mind fill your system with anxieties. Relax and take your time to ease your mind.

Everything is going to be ok. Because it depends on you.

A very well respected member, named Jack Three Beans, wrote:

"when I was going through this, my mantra was
Today is not the day that I quit
Maybe I will quit tomorrow, yet I will wait to see what tomorrow brings

Then repeat that tomorrow"

Keep DB ((((Oz))))


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Everything. About what to do. I still don’t know how to act around her. I still am in searing pain. About what IHALCS just told me to do. About how to let go. How to detach. How to gal when you can’t get your mind off her. About how 1 human could do this to another. About whose advice to follow. How to compartmentalize so I don’t lose my job. How to handle this. How to make the pain lessen even a little

I’m not kidding when I think about her with OM it feels like my chest is squeezing. Like I can’t breathe. Like I’m having a heart attack

How could you set there and look At someone and lead them along knowing your going to crush them

I DONT KNOW HOW TO DO THIS!!!


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I called the dB center and pleaded with them to give me 1 free coaching session. I mean begged


They said no. Guess that’s what I expected

I’m
Out here in my truck falling apart. My break is over in 3 min and I’m nowhere near ready to go back in


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Take the day off if you need to. 1. Therapy. 2. GAL e.g. pottery or gun range. 3. You don’t have to say anything if you aren’t sure what the right thing to say is. Take care.

Deep breaths. Stay present in the moment. Watch a meditation video if you need help doing that.

The advice for therapy and GAL are pretty consistent.

Sorry you’re going through this.

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Originally Posted by ozman
Ok thank you. I will read that thread when I get home R2C

So the consensus is I should not go to wedding. Go out and GAL instead

If she’s having affair then so be it? Recon or no recon?

I’m trying to pound into my brain that my relationship with her is unhealthy

How do I detach without just not caring. I’ve read the thread again and again. I just can’t get it.

Steve. I don’t cherry pick. It’s just you guys make this seem so easy and I feel stuck I’m really trying but my hugest efforts feel like nothing.

How do I let myself be ok with her laying down on her back and letting another man get on top of her

How. How do I let go. HOW do I do that and still love her HOW do I do that and feel nothing but hate

HOW!!!


It's real simple. Not at all easy but simple. You both took vows to love and cherish and honor one another and support one another in sickness and in health till death do you part. We are all human we all make mistakes and we all deserve some sort of forgiveness. If one person cannot tolerate another, and they need to leave or they need to justify their actions or they need to cheat for whatever emotional high they are chasing. Then let them go. What are you going to do? Fight them over it? Your self-respect and your self-worth and well-being is more important then the value of yourself that you have placed in this other person. Right wrong or indifferent. You learn from your mistakes and you move on. Leave them to their mess and focus on you you deserve it

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I'm sorry you're going through this I know it's nauseating and anxiety makes you want to scream. Talk to your manager on the side and ask him if you can have the rest of the day off go and take a nap if you have to and don't say anything to W. It's a lot of pressure I know to keep returning to that house knowing what you know. All the thoughts swirling in your head. Get a cold drink of water if you're having chest pains, and control your breathing from your diaphragm slowly. You don't want to hyperventilate or have a panic attack. Find some privacy weather be at home or in nature. Have some cold water nearby. Throw some earbuds in your phone and put on some music that you love. You're a musician right go to your happy place with your music. Close your eyes and breathe and think of nothing else what was in your happy place. You have to shut your mind down otherwise it's going to make you anxious and sick. But you will get through it. I wish there was some way we could all get together at an event and talk to one another and Coach one another. I wish I could be there for you in person I know what you're going through








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We are here Oz.

Calm down. Breathe. Relax. Control yourself.

Breathe. Relax.

We are here man.

Vent with us. We are there with you.

Trust yourself. You can do that.


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I’m sitting here under a case ih. Combine. Trying to put the transmission I rebuilt for it back in. I’m sitting under here silently sobbing with wrenches in my lap hoping nobody sees me. I just wish I had somebody to talk to


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What are your plans after work?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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I don’t have any


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You have us here ozman. I'm watching the sun rise alone on a beach. Reading these forums. Contemplating. Alone. But not alone. People to chat too. People here. These forums have done as much for me in one month as a year of IC. Take advantage of the wise people here.


Me: 47 w/ S10, D12, D3
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See man. You are not alone. And you can cry with us.


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What you are going through is pretty normal. I cried all the time at work, on my way home, to my mom, to the board, or was freaking brutal. Just know the pain is temporary.


Married 14, Together 17
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M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
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Originally Posted by ozman
I’m sitting here under a case ih. Combine. Trying to put the transmission I rebuilt for it back in. I’m sitting under here silently sobbing with wrenches in my lap hoping nobody sees me. I just wish I had somebody to talk to


Rebuilding a transmission is no joke! That's a skill oz! A lot of people in the world wouldnt' have a clue where to start.

So youre crying under a combine because its a rough day. Are you going to hide forever or just let it out and move forward?

We are all here to talk with oz. You aren't alone.

Last edited by LB55; 07/19/19 09:15 PM.

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I hate my mom. You guys are all I got. This is the lowest I’ve felt since bd. I’m crashing right now. It’s hard to even type


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Does your job offer EAP (Employee Assistance Program.) If so, you may be entitled to some free counseling sessions. Alternatively many counselors work on a sliding scale of what you can afford to pay. Some insurance covers counseling too with low co-pays (Mine is only $10 now and previously it was $25).

You may want to visit your primary care physician for some anxiety medication to dull things for a little while. That has helped me and many here on the forum.

Last year I was so anxious and upset that I couldn't focus at work and really struggled. I actually applied for intermittent FMLA to allow time to go to counseling appts so my job was protected.

Keeping busy helps to distract. Have you ever looked up meetup groups for your area? They are not dating oriented but activity oriented and there are all kinds of groups for various interests. You should check into that. It doesn't sound like you have a strong network of friends so maybe that is where you need to focus your efforts first. Maybe pick up an activity you have enjoyed in the past or try something new.

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My parents emotionally neglected me which meant I didn't have good relationship skills. I messed up one marraige, picked an aweful gf, and about to mess up my second. Yeah, I hate my Mom and Dad too. I moved half way around the world because of them. I totally get it.


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I’m crying under a combine because I’m pretty sure I know what’s gonna go down tomorrow night. And this is the lowest I’ve been since Bd. I had my hopes all up. But I get it now. She’s done. And I’m left with the pieces. It’s just all hitting me. And I just feel overwhelmed with sorrow this is the longest a spell has lasted. Damn. I just want it to stop


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Originally Posted by ozman
I don’t have any

It is important for you make a plan and then follow your plan.

What would you like to do?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by ozman
Im crying under a combine because Im pretty sure I know whats gonna go down tomorrow night.

It is tough oz, we are here for support. You're crying because you're pretty sure that you are going to go out and have a good time tomorrow night? grin Work on your mindset. Please do something for yourself brother.

My W has been in Africa on some boondoggle for 'business' with her 'business partner' and 'her bodyguard' for 10 days now. She comes back today. You know what I am doing? Going to a baseball game. I have had a great 10 days with her gone, me and the kids hanging out at the lake, cooking dinner, rocking out with Johnny Cash. She will probably text me to tell me how awesome her trip was and blah blah blah. I'm gonna go ride my motorcycle tomorrow. Then I am going to clean the boat up and get ready for salmon fishing.

She goes to this wedding tomorrow, you go do something that doesn't involve going to spy on her.


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Originally Posted by ozman
I’m pretty sure I know what’s gonna go down tomorrow night.
You are letting things that have not happened control you. Our minds are sometimes evil. We need to learn to control our thoughts and not let our thoughts control us.

It is OK to cry. We all have repressed emotions that need to come out.


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I decided to ride my motorcycle to work today. 20 miles. I decided to wear my bright green shrek shirt. I decided not to were my helmet. I decided not to wear my leather jacket. Felt good to be free from the protection.

I decided to leave work early without telling anyone. My job is flexible, but there is risk involved. I made choices weighing the risk/ reward.

I am home. I am going to go zero in my riffle at the range. I am going to come home. I am going to shower. I am going to take my lady to karaoke so she can sing. I will play pool. I will meet new people. We will come home. I will sit in the hot tube. (There is currently a bear sleeping in the tree 15 yards away. I got pictures of him this morning. He will most likely leave around dark). Might try for pictures before I head out.

That is my plan.



Set the wife free. Make plans. Make decisions. Execute plans. Be supper dad. Be supperOz.


Tell yourself it is OK to take a break from this. Take a break.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Oz, I think you said you live in Kansas, so you're probably JUST getting out of work. Let us know what GAL activity you end up choosing tonight! We're here. Have a good one.

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She asked me to call when I got off work this morning. I agreed. She fits off work at 4 pm I get off at 5. She has to pick S up from latchkey by 6.

I call when I get home from work at 5:45

H hey you wanted me to call
W ya niece wants to spend night
H ok sounds fine
W ok well I’m running over to sisters house for a min I should be home in about 30. Well actually I don’t know what time I’ll be home. Sorry I hade to stay late at work cause coworker wanted to show me pics of Rob Zombie concert she went to so I was 45 min late leaving work
H ok no prob

Call ended there. It’s now 2.5 hrs later she is still not home. I’m a little pissed about haircut thing cause they are closed now.

She has S with her. I don’t think she would have A if S was with her. But he is not capable of telling me if she did. (Barely verbal autism)

If she is having A I guess I can’t stop her. You guys were right. Hurts like a bit$&.

I don’t really know what to say when she gets home.

I need to come up for awesome GAL for tomorrow while she is doing whatever at wedding

I’m having a strong moment so lay some advice on me.

Thanks for being there guys. I mean that more than I can express with text


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Oz,

You get through this by letting go. I understand you have anxiety which probably makes it difficult to do so. You need to understand you cannot control anything in this situation but yourself. You seriously need to GAL. People have been telling you this for weeks now and besides seeing a friend once and going jogging I don’t feel like you have been. You NEED to for yourself. I’m not gonna repeat what others already said, but you’ve been given many GAL activities.

You need to remember that she is no longer the person she once was. Her values and morals are not what they were. That may change back one day, but that takes time and only your W can make those changes. You cannot. We all know how hard this is, but give it time, you will learn to accept it. The crazy upside down you are living in will become the norm.

Also probably time for a new thread?


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Originally Posted by "Ozman"
I’m a little pissed about haircut thing cause they are closed now.

If you wanted a haircut but didn't get one after all our GAL talk, you should be a little mad at yourself! But only a little. Did you do something else to GAL with your evening? smile

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
I need to come up for awesome GAL for tomorrow while she is doing whatever at wedding

It's for you, so it doesn't need to be awesome. My IC said it could even be binge watching a new favorite TV show. Although.. pottery and the gun range sound more social and interesting!

Originally Posted by "Ozman"
I don’t really know what to say when she gets home.

Hello.
Goodnight.
?

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