I know it seems tough to act happy and positive given your situation. It will get easier. Once you have taken care of your boys I would really recommend getting out of the house and doing things. Start a new sport or hobby if you can. It will help you to take your mind off your W.
Like LH said I think it’s time to stop playing family. She doesn’t want to be M any more and so you shouldn’t let her indulge in family time. Treat her with kindness but try to get to a place where you don’t worry about her thoughts or actions.
God damn it I keep messing up!!!!!🤬 I had a sales meeting out of town which went really well so I thought I’d call in at home on the way back to the office. She had a friend around for coffee and just said “Checking up on me?”. Completely backfired! Probably doesn’t help I asked who she was messaging last night which turned into a full blown discussion (thankfully not an argument) about the OM and how she’s not in contact with him. The sad thing was I’d decided to stop the distrust and just roll with it. I was genuinely calling in to say hi and give her good news ☹️
One for the psychiatrists amongst you. The house is a tip because she’d rather see friends or go out than tidy. She’s never off her phone. So why the hell do I want it to work so much when any logical person would think it a lucky escape?
God damn it I keep messing up!!!!!🤬 I had a sales meeting out of town which went really well so I thought I’d call in at home on the way back to the office. She had a friend around for coffee and just said “Checking up on me?”. Completely backfired! Probably doesn’t help I asked who she was messaging last night which turned into a full blown discussion (thankfully not an argument) about the OM and how she’s not in contact with him. The sad thing was I’d decided to stop the distrust and just roll with it. I was genuinely calling in to say hi and give her good news ☹️
This is what you should have done with the phone call:
Her: "Hello?"
You: "Hey its me! Just wanted to call to let you know that I am super stoked about the sales meeting I just left. It went really well. I sold them X for a hefty profit, and it will translate into a great commission! Anyway, don't want to keep you from what you were doing, just wanted to share. Gotta run, talk later!"
Then hang-up.
My guess you called. She answered. Her hello sounded like "What do you want?" to your ears. That made you start asking what she was doing. Made her feel checked up on. You double-down on pressure and pursuit by asking who she was messaging last night.
Hello Gomez, let me introduce you to DBing....because the quoted post above IS NOT IT.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I actually called in at home (ie in person) not a phone call. But your point is well made.
OH! I misunderstood your language. So Gomez, I want to you to look deep down inside....and tell the truth. Were you checking up on her? I mean, calling her on the phone to share the good news could have been done just as easily! Remember, I used to be in your shoes. I know how the LBH's mind thinks. And yes on more than one occasion I checked up on her.
Drop the rope. Let her go to get her back.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I honestly wasn’t checking up on her. But I was being clingy and needy. I was thinking one day I’ll walk in and she’ll be pleased to see me. Stupid I know. Since then I haven’t asked her where she’s been or about her day. I’ve paid no interest to her phone usage and if she goes to another room I don’t follow or show any interest. I don’t phone, go home during the workday or message unless it’s in response to her.
My biggest question is still about stopping doing things for her. I normally cook for her and the boys. I do my share of tidying the house. I’ll take my turn to load the dishwasher or wash clothes. If I suddenly stop all that, how do I explain it, other than “you want a divorce so I’m not doing it anymore” which will come across as petty and spiteful.
Hi Gomez, I caught your message on Sandi's Reflections and decided to come to your thread. Here's a copy of part of your post you sent me:
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My W and I still live together with our 2 boys as the house sale has fallen through twice. She filed 6 months ago. Throughout the latter years of our R, my wife has said I was cold, unloving and didn’t respect her and I agree this is how I was. So to try to fix it, I tried to be more loving and caring. However, I know she had feelings for a friend of a friend and this went as far as sexting, so an EA. I know it didn’t go physical (I don’t want to say how I know but I know, not think). She’s always on her phone but she says she’s not in contact with him anymore. I’ve seen the last message was a couple of months ago but theoretically she could be deleting them. My question is, do I still treat her as a WW? It seems to me the way to treat a WW is different to a W that has been starved of love and affection for so long.
When I read your introductory post, you described how her not attending to her homemaking duties had really worn on your attitude toward her. (I gather she is not employed.) She spends her time mostly on her phone or spending money. You come home from work and basically do the housework and cooking, b/c she doesn't care to do it. Sounds like another very spoiled W. Between being spoiled to no responsibilities and the addiction to cell phones, I am greatly concerned not only for your family, but for many others who need to wake up and see the breakdown this is causing in MR's and families. My first question would be if she was not made to do any chores when she was growing up (spoiled by her parents), and if you didn't know how lazy she was until after you M her? Did you contribute to spoiling her after M, or is she just selfish, lazy, & entitled (which are usually the results of spoiling). Sorry, I just don't have much empathy for healthy women who sit around all day on their phones and let everything else slide. Just wondered when this started.
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She was a fairly crappy housewife and spent way to much and in response I was cold and unloving towards her. This made her even more miserable so she did less and spent more so I was less inclined to be loving towards her and so we spiralled.
It sounds as if the two of you were in a cold war, and nobody was winning. Would it be fair to say the lack of housekeeping originally led to your feelings of disrespect for her? Is there any reason you believe her habits would change if she doesn't get a divorce?
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The thing is, when she said she wanted a divorce I knew I'd messed up and did all the things you're not supposed to do (telling her I can change, phone calls, gifts etc) and of course it didn't work.
Are you saying that you had no idea you would be messing up by treating her coldly and unloving? Why do you suppose her announcement of wanting a D snapped your head around and you suddenly wanted her.......regardless of her crappy housekeeping and overspending?
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I subsequently found out she'd been messaging a friend of a friend with some very explicit messages. She says it didn't go physical and I believe her. I don't think they're still in regular contact but she does get the occasional message and i think she still thinks about him sometimes, maybe as a potential lover, maybe just as a friend.
So, you did confront her about what you found out? She said nothing physical, and that was kind of how things were left, other than an occasional message from her OM? Now you found out about the OM after she said she wanted a D, right? Did you start buying her gifts and showing her affection after you learned about OM?
Okay, so let me just come out and say that your W is still wayward. It does not matter if she had a PA, or not. She was involved in very inappropriate behavior for a M woman. Waywardness is not just about having an affair. It begins in the heart of resentment & disrespect and leads to other negative attitudes and behavior. It didn't come about overnight, and it won't be resolved/recovered overnight. The WW, on her own accord, is seldom motivated to end and start doing that which is the right thing to do. However, she can definitely be motivated by other things, and that's partly what I want to talk about. She will never be motivated to fight for her M, when you are willing to sit back and take whatever leftovers you can get. You have not required anything from her, that I can tell. Were there even any consequences for her sexting, and still having contact with OM? If not, then why should she be concerned about her actions? Better yet, why would she respect you as a man? Whose idea was it to sleep in separate bedrooms? Was this before or after OM? Who initiated sex after separating bedrooms? Was it after you discovered activity with OM?
You and your W have this push-pull thing going on. If one of you want the M, the other one doesn't......or so it may appear. You can't seem to get in the same frame of mind at the same time. First of all, you need to know why your own feelings have run cold, hot, and to not sure of what you want. Was it b/c you discovered another guy was interested in her, or were you concerned you'd be left alone? You were adjusting to the idea of being single, so what changed your feelings? Emotions can be very fickle, just like a cheating wife, so try to figure yourself out and don't let emotions dictate your immediate decisions while you are learning more about what to do.
A lot of what I tell you may sound pro-divorce, but actually, I'm not. It just takes me a while to get it all said, and for the H to start seeing the picture. If you want the MR to work, then you need to know what isn't effective with a WW and what is. I can tell you this much, she doesn't tell you she wants a D in order to signal you to turn on the affection & romance. Maybe in the past she would have expressed her unhappiness, but I doubt she would have jumped straight for D, unless she was dabbling somewhere else. When OM didn't prove to be a solid Plan A, then she would lean back toward you to secure her Plan B. She did not want to work on the MR, nor did she suddenly realize how much she loved you. I hate to tell you, but I think she's playing games with you, and like most H's you are completely confused at her giving mixed signals. I suggest you stop trying to read her signals, b/c they are not honest. In order for this M to have a chance at being saved, you need to adapt a new method that may sound & feel totally opposite of what you thought one would do in this case.
Whenever there has been behavior that indicates a wayward heart, the H should have a no nonsense policy where he tolerates none of her b.s.; ping-pong indecisiveness about the MR; sense of entitlement; texting/messaging any other men; disrespectful treatment/behavior, and anything else he finds to be unacceptable in a MR. Her values/standards seem to be lacking at the moment. Therefore, you need to double down on your own standards, instead of trying to watch her signals in order to judge your next move. One reason you need to know your own values, is so that you have a guide to set boundaries.
When dealing with a WW, one of the most necessary things the H needs to learn is setting effective boundaries. There is link in Cadet's first post about boundaries. Please read it, b/c many people assume they know what boundaries are, but they do not grasp how or why to set boundaries, the purpose, or how to enforce them. Boundaries are necessary in protecting your feelings from anyone who does not show you respect.
Waywardness calls for tough love, and if you are a guy who is trying to nice back his WW, my advice is to toughen up and start respecting yourself. I can tell you this much. She does not value her MR or her family, or she wouldn't be dabbling in the game of sexual thrills........and that is exactly what she is doing! Flirty emails, nude photos, sexting, phone sex.........whatever she's doing........it's for the sexual thrill. But what some people don't know is that it is very addictive, and the more she does....the more she'll need, to get the thrill. It's just like a drug. Sadly, there's no telling how long she has conducted this type of activity. These men are not her "friends", and don't kid yourself into thinking she can just continue talking to some guy like he's just a friend, after they have had phone sex. He's not interested if she doesn't want to play along. And, furthermore, she isn't that interested in just being a friend, either. She'll move on to someone else. So, it's time that you get real about this situation. ((hugs))
I've got to stop here, but I'll post again. Can't get it all down in one post.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
-Are you actively working on detachment? Not just talking about it. Thinking about it. But actually striving to detach as much as possible? Does that mean admitting i still want to have sex with her, rubbing her feet or back, worrying about where she's with, who's she's with, who she's messaging etc? If yes then I'm doing great smile But seriously no, I'm doing all those things, I really need to work on this.
The people who were successful in getting through this most awful period, have said that GAL is absolutely key to detaching and finding happiness & emotional strength to press forward.......with or without your W.
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A bit more advice needed please. Last night she went out with friends. She was driving so didn't drink. When she got home, I was in the hot tub chilling and she joined me. We ended up having sex in the hot tub. She said afterwards she worries its giving me false hope but tbh I just enjoyed the sex for what it was. My question is really that is probably the polar opposite of detaching- should I be saying no? She was up and out for work this morning so I haven't seen her, but I just intend to not mention it when she gets hone, if she mentions it, play it down. Thoughts please?
Why didn't you get out of the hot tub when she got in it? Boy, that would have sent a clear message you weren't interested in anything from a wayward. Maybe I've missed one or two, but I don't recall a single male poster telling a newcomer that he shouldn't have sex with his wayward W......or any other type of W. The forum ladies usually keep quiet, except for me. So, if you have a wayward W, does it justify having sex just for the sake of enjoying sex? Obviously, the men think so. IMHO, it can get real complicated. Sex is one of main things that a WW uses to temp check her H. Makes no difference if he enjoys it without any strings attached (which I don't think a LBH really does, in the first place), b/c she is manipulating him. Whether he initiates or she does, he's going to start wondering if this is "a good sign". Oh, I've heard the same excuse dozens of time from newcomers........"I had no expectations". Oh, really? Wasn't it you that were confused at her mixed signals? That's what I'm saying here. Then, there are the stories where the WW gets pregnant by OM, and she has to make sure she covers herself.......just in case things don't work out with OM. Hello, sex with LBH! So, if hubby gets suspicious, she can say, "Yes, don't you remember the night in the hot tub? Of course it's your baby!"
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She said afterwards she worries its giving me false hope
Well, there you go. And you are already thinking what to do if she mentions it. Oddly enough, the very next day you posted that you were really struggling to stay strong & detached.....and having mixed signals. So, go figure.
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How do I explain a sudden change from cordial to aloof? I can’t say “because you’re messaging other guys”- I have no proof, just a gut feeling and she will say I’m being paranoid.
Having sex and playing like happy family on the beach is more than just being cordial, don't you think? Of course she's going to notice if you suddenly go into this aloof stance. The problem I have seen common in LBH's (with NGS) is that they don't seem to know how to balance very well. They can't find the middle ground. If we suggest they are being too involved, then they jump into the extreme opposite and act like a polar bear.
Let me ask you something about your personal views about marriage. Is it okay for your W to have inappropriate communication or an EA with other men, and you will be fine having sex and continue to play happy couple/family when she happens to be in a good mood? If so, then I won't bring it up again. But if you are grasping at the crumbs she's throwing your way, b/c you are afraid to lose her, then please see it for what it really is. I can speak from WW experience when I say that there is much more that should be required in order for her to get back in your good graces again. My second thread on WW's is about not letting the WW back too easily. Having sex and a good day at the beach, is not work for her. But it is a short preview of how easily the WW can sliver under the door to get back into the MR, without having to change her wayward mindset or behavior. It doesn't last, b/c the root issue has not changed.
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Yes- rule 15. Don’t start conversations. Don’t be overly talkative.
It doesn't say you cannot speak or talk. Think about the LBS who is trying to hold their partner's attention/interest captive (so to speak) by drawing them into conversations. It can be a form of manipulation, and some LBS's try to keep the conversation going on & on & on.....as a means of emotionally holding their partner (think of phone calls). However, this rule does not mean the spouse cannot speak to the partner. It doesn't mean he can say nothing! It does not mean he should act cold, rude, sullen, or whatever. I see how it could be misunderstood, so asking questions about something is the thing to do.
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Yes she filed. I want to work on it. She’s decided she’s better off on her own.
Similarly, if we both play the “go out as much as you can” game it’s the boys that suffer. I did think (mistakenly) that being close would lead to a reconciliation. But similarly, if I do want a reconciliation appearing moody or “off” with her with an explanation of “because you want to D” or similar doesn’t feel like a good tactic either. Don’t get me wrong though, I’ve changed a massive amount and her not at all- if she isn’t willing to change (and I’m not convinced she wants to or thinks she needs to), the marriage won’t last either.
Okay, what you say makes sense, until you realize you are dealing with a WW. It's all about her not feeling respect for you as a man, or as her H. That's where you need to start. Nobody has told you to act moody or sullen. That was your interpretation. That was you jumping to the opposite end of the spectrum.
Have you read the WW series yet? It talks about how a man deals with a WW. Trying to play happy family, having sex, fun days on the beach, taking vacations, and acting as if she has not betrayed the MR and that she wants out........is NOT how to reconcile properly with a WW. Yes, you want to work on the M, but she doesn't. When someone doesn't want you, then you don't keep pursuing, thinking it will change their mind. At least, it doesn't work with a woman who doesn't respect you. Without respect, her ability to feel those in-love emotions and admiration is gone. In marriage, a woman's desire is emotionally tied to the respect she feels for her H. Men aren't built that way, but women are. So, you can play around it all day long, but the bottom line is she doesn't admire you as a man. How do you change that? First, start respecting yourself as a man.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Between being spoiled to no responsibilities and the addiction to cell phones, I am greatly concerned not only for your family, but for many others who need to wake up and see the breakdown this is causing in MR's and families. My first question would be if she was not made to do any chores when she was growing up (spoiled by her parents), and if you didn't know how lazy she was until after you M her? Did you contribute to spoiling her after M, or is she just selfish, lazy, & entitled (which are usually the results of spoiling). Sorry, I just don't have much empathy for healthy women who sit around all day on their phones and let everything else slide. Just wondered when this started. 
