So yesterday she asked what my plans are as far as living arrangements and said that was always part of the problem was that i never communicated or talked or anything. I told her i understand her feelings on it but i don’t want to leave. She said she is getting a divorce when she gets paid next and that i can stay longer but with different sleeping arrangements, and that i could turn the garage into something for myself ( and no I’m not gonna let her put me in the garage). I told her a bunch of stuff, basically told her how i feel about everything, i had been holding it in and avoiding that convo with her. She said she considers herself single and that i make her anxiety and depression worse and that i did it again so she said she was going out with her friends to get away from the house and me. The weird thing is that after all that we were both in the kitchen and she cooked, i told her thank you for cooking dinner and that i missed her cooking and that it tasted good, i had been the only one cooking, she said i was just trying to suck up. Then after that she asked if i could do her a favor and get her a energy drink from the store and if i would be the DD for her and her friends, what’s even weirder to me is that even tho i supposedly made her anxiety act up she was talking to me more after that, not about relationships or anything bad, but about funny stuff and some of the times she went out with her friends here recently and just telling me all about those times and other things. She also cleaned today for the first time in a while and told me things i need to do (with my clothes and other stuff in one of the rooms).To me it feels like that convo where i opened up and let loose tore down the wall that was between us, i know i could be overreacting, but she seemed friendlier and more open to me after that, even despite everything she had said just minutes before.. what should i think about this? Is it a step in the right direction, even tho she brought up divorce again? Is it one of those believe none of what she says and half of what she does cases? I plan on staying in the house with her and sleeping together, i also want to attempt to engage sex or at least holding/cuddling again, i had never done that before in our relationship no matter how many times she complained about it so i feel it would be a 180...i know that’s a lot to read
Don't jump at every single little opportunity. Actions, not words, mean a difference. Nothing has changed. Continue to DB.
Actions! Meaning, she needs to consistantly show you she is interested in you. Period. Until she starts pursuing you and trying to get you back, nothing changes.
Do not move into the garage. If she wants to move into the garage thats fine.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
What kind of actions do i need to look for in her? And i know what the book says on making her pursue me and be interested in me but i don’t fully understand it or how to do it. What kind of actions do i need to take? Do i need to do 180s compared to when things weren’t like this (like helping clean and stuff, i never helped before, or initiating sex and touching, another thing i never did)? I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
So yesterday she asked what my plans are as far as living arrangements and said that was always part of the problem was that i never communicated or talked or anything. I told her i understand her feelings on it but i don’t want to leave. She said she is getting a divorce when she gets paid next and that i can stay longer but with different sleeping arrangements, and that i could turn the garage into something for myself ( and no I’m not gonna let her put me in the garage). I told her a bunch of stuff, basically told her how i feel about everything, i had been holding it in and avoiding that convo with her. She said she considers herself single and that i make her anxiety and depression worse and that i did it again so she said she was going out with her friends to get away from the house and me. The weird thing is that after all that we were both in the kitchen and she cooked, i told her thank you for cooking dinner and that i missed her cooking and that it tasted good, i had been the only one cooking, she said i was just trying to suck up. Then after that she asked if i could do her a favor and get her a energy drink from the store and if i would be the DD for her and her friends, what’s even weirder to me is that even tho i supposedly made her anxiety act up she was talking to me more after that, not about relationships or anything bad, but about funny stuff and some of the times she went out with her friends here recently and just telling me all about those times and other things. She also cleaned today for the first time in a while and told me things i need to do (with my clothes and other stuff in one of the rooms).To me it feels like that convo where i opened up and let loose tore down the wall that was between us, i know i could be overreacting, but she seemed friendlier and more open to me after that, even despite everything she had said just minutes before.. what should i think about this? Is it a step in the right direction, even tho she brought up divorce again? Is it one of those believe none of what she says and half of what she does cases? I plan on staying in the house with her and sleeping together, i also want to attempt to engage sex or at least holding/cuddling again, i had never done that before in our relationship no matter how many times she complained about it so i feel it would be a 180...i know that’s a lot to read
Jb, common trap LBHs fall into. You should go read ozman's thread. Sounds a lot like you. "She's being nice again! She likes me!" Then he asked his W to share the bathroom with him so they could change into their bathing suits together....and she closed the door behind her. Sent him spiraling.
Get me an energy drink. Be our DD. And then she is nice. Sounds like my 16 year-old daughter. When she wants nothing she tells me she hates me and to leave her alone. When she wants something she comes down and is all sweet and nice, and "Hey Dad, you know what happened?" It is called manipulating you into giving her whatever she wants. Energy drinks. Being DD. Moving out by month's end. Living in the garage.
Welcome to the friendzone.......what you do from this point forward will determine if you remain there or not. Remember, saving the MR is not up to you. Settling for being her BFF is up to you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
What kind of actions do i need to look for in her?
You don't! Watching her like this is pursuit and pressure. You have to let her go to get her back. That means NOT watching her for reactions. The worst way to DB is to think "I'll do X, and see if she reacts with & or Z!" STOP THAT.
Originally Posted by Jb2019
And i know what the book says on making her pursue me and be interested in me but i don’t fully understand it or how to do it. What kind of actions do i need to take?
Go read the distance and pursuit thread. When you distance yourself, detach, remove all pressure and pursuit, she will wonder what is up and come sniffing around.
Originally Posted by Jb2019
Do i need to do 180s compared to when things weren’t like this (like helping clean and stuff, i never helped before, or initiating sex and touching, another thing i never did)?
Have you heard the analogy of the car? Your MR is like a car. Do the routine maintenance like changing the oil, and rotating the tires, and you can avoid a breakdown. However if you don't do the routine maintenance, you will eventually suffer a breakdown. After a breakdown doing routine maintenance would be a waste of time. Changing oil and rotating the tires after the engine has thrown a rod won't fix the problem...and in fact would be a waste of time.
Cleaning. Initiating sex. Touching. That's all routine maintenance. Your MR's engine is blown now. And doing those thins will not help.
Originally Posted by Jb2019
I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
We create what we fear. Have you ever heard that? Someone that fears getting into an accident will usually drive in such a way that they are more likely to get into an accident. Do not fear DBing. You have two choices: DB, or pressure and pursue.
Pressure and pursuit will almost guarantee pushing her further away. DBing give you a better chance of getting what you want. It is NOT a guarantee, it just improves the chances. The other thing that DBing does is fix the very problem you stated: "I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen" Once you lovingly detach. Go out and GAL. And 180 on bad behaviors so that you improve as a person....then you will realize that you are going to be just fine no matter WHAT happens in with your W.
The first 180 I'd make is to drop the fear. And DB like a bad man! Doubledown on GAL. Work on learning what loving detachment is and work on it. And then get into IC to address your personality problems. Use this opportunity to fix yourself. In the process she may be attracted back to you.
One last thing. For women, attraction follows respect. You cannot reattract her back unless she respects you. "Get me an energy drink. Be my DD. Move into the garage." Does any of that engender respect? Start commanding respect. "No sorry, I am busy, I can't get you an energy drink or be your DD." "I will not move into the garage." She might get mad but she WILL respect you. You cannot nice her back into committing to the marriage.
Check out the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I am detecting some Nice Guy Syndrome issues in you Jb.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
We create what we fear. Have you ever heard that? Someone that fears getting into an accident will usually drive in such a way that they are more likely to get into an accident. Do not fear DBing. You have two choices: DB, or pressure and pursue.
Jb - Steve is right. DB doesn't guarantee any outcome. It just changes the odds, and helps you break out of your unhealthy coping patterns.
As our MC told me privately: "F*** your fear. Fear doesn't exist." It is entirely a creation of your mind.
Fear also serves to mask controlling behavior. You are seeking a certain outcome (due to fear), so you design your words and actions to try to achieve that outcome. This is a means of control and it is not authentic. It is classic Nice Guy. Nice Guy wants to try out different things and then gauge how his W responds. No no no no no. Reformed Nice Guy does what is authentic and respectful and true to his values, and in doing so becomes happier and more attractive. RNG is authentic. If his W wants to leave, RNG lets her go.
Who is Jb2019? What do you fear? If what you fear comes true, will you survive? I guarantee that you will. You may even look at the experience as a gift.
The problem is not that you care too much about her. The problem is you don't care enough about yourself.
By the way, everything I say is just me speaking how I wish I acted - I make mistakes all the time =) But I've seen enough in my situation to realize this is going to define the path I take for the rest of my life. I read NMMNG a year ago and did not take the lessons to heart. Now I am back, tail between my legs, reading and re-reading it like a sacred text.
I am convinced with practice and hard work, these things become second-nature. You don't need to constantly think of "validation, boundaries, toxic shame, covert contracts, PMA, GAL, 180s, LRT, etc." - you are just you, confident, self-differentiated, fully in command of your words and actions and values. Then... you can face whatever life throws your way. It may be your W's undying love, it may be a brutal D. Nobody knows. Enjoy the adventure.
Thank you all for the advice, something else i probably should have mentioned is that my wife has never had regular periods, she will often go months or years at a time without one, so her hormones are all wacked out, she also got an iud put in about a month ago and thats when she really became dead set on divorce. She was bleeding off and on and was bloated because of the iud (sorry if this is tmi, just want to bring it up) Basically it’s like she’s having her period all the time, that’s what her words are like. One of my friends goes through the same thing with his gf, she says she’s single and is done and all this other stuff (like my wife), only he doesn’t freak out, she has the same hormone problems as my wife, but to him she doesn’t mean it and they are still together and she always comes back and stays with him whenever he even acts like he’s gonna leave or says you are not single
And just to clarify, i need to stop washing dishes, taking out trash, mowing yard and everything? Or certain things. And do i need to just go out without telling her?
Jb - we had 3 kids back-to-back-to-back. Pregnancy, then a year of breastfeeding, then pregnancy again, etc. Wife got an IUD afterwards, had it removed due to bleeding and pain issues, has cycled through various birth control meds ever since. I had a vasectomy but she continues with the BC because of issues regulating her cycle. A couple months ago she had her period every day for 6 weeks. I think the stress of the sitch was contributing.
Anyways... all I can say is, avoid the temptation to "root cause" your sitch. People are complicated creatures. Maybe hormones are a contributing factor. Not sure it really changes what you should be doing. If I could give my wife a magic (BC) pill and fix everything I would.
