That does sound really hard Hope. I have yet to run into my XH and my kids when he has them and I am thankful for it. They would be fine probably but it would feel really wrong to me as well...especially if I run into them with him and his affair. Ugh...not looking forward to that and I’m sure it will happen one day. I feel better knowing that I’m not the one who should be feeling shame in that situation. I did run into him and her last year...when he was still insisting she was “just a roommate”...she looked terrified...lol. He just looked uncomfortable and guilty. It was very surreal to be out shopping and run into your husband and some strange woman, who, btw, is definitely an affair down. Anyway... sounds like you handled it well. I am sure your H was not unaffected by your daughter’s confusion. He was probably feeling a boatload of guilt...and so he should. Hang in there. Alison is right...it was probably way harder on you than it was on her. (((HUGS)))
Ugh. That sounds horrible DV. I don’t know how you could ever deal with that. The idea of running into my H with another woman is pretty high on my list of things I dread. Surreal is the perfect word for all of this; running into your own husband, your own children around town. The separateness. It comes up again and again, always trying to figure out who gets to do what with our daughter when. I’m angry about it. Im angry about a lot of things lately. All the things I feel my H has taken from me and from our daughter by breaking up our family this way. I think a big part of my detachment process needs to be dealing with these feelings on my one in therapy, and making sure not to let them leak over into my interactions with my H.
Having a rough and confusing morning. As I mentioned in previous post, my H and I had a conversation a few weeks back about needed increase in boundaries in our situation. For the most part it all sticking; I leave when H comes here on his scheduled days to see D3, or he takes her to dinner out or at his place. Another one was Saturday mornings; he comes to pick her up first thing, and for a long time they would make a pancake breakfast and we’d all eat together before they left. During our boundaries talk I brought this up, and said as sad as it is for D3, we have to stop doing that as it sends a confusing message to her, it isn’t sustainable and just doesn’t make sense any more. (What I didn’t say, but I’d quite relevant, is that it also makes me incredible sad to have a pretend family breakfast and then send them off for the day.) He agreed and we decided to stop doing it. That stuck for a couple of Saturdays. Then last Saturday he texted before he arrived to ask if it would be ok to mane pancakes with her. I said fine, thinking it would be an occasional one off and that he’d ask first. Then this morning he came in and she asked to make pancakes (as she always does) and he said sure and headed into my kitchen with her. I have SO many feelings. 1) on some level it’s nice and familiar and safe feeling to have them doing that BUT 2) it isnt real and it is unfair to me and to D3 to keep digging the rut of that routine if he truly wants D. 3) I’m extremely sad, having had breakfast with my H and young child and then watching them pack up to go on a beach day to which I’m not invited. 4)I’m really annoyed because now I feel I have to bring it up and have that painful, scary conversation about these boundaries again, and I don’t think it’s fair that I’m in this position. I had that talk already. I thought this problem was taken care of. There is no consistency with H. Nothing sticks. We have these conversations in which he states being 100% sure about moving forward with D and then nothing changes. We had what felt like this big, turning point conversation about boundaries in our relationship and then he just slips back into the old ways. And it’s all on ME to police it and maintain the lines for my sake and the sake of my daughter. I suppose it’s just more cake eating on his part? In taking the path of least resistance for himself regardless of what we decide is best for all? And now I have to decide whether to let it slide or to muster up and talk about it all over again. I’d appreciate advice or input on this
As an outsider to your situation, but going through one of my own, I feel that he is cake eating and you are allowing it.
I know how hard it is to not let that happen, though. We just want our families back together
Originally Posted by HopeCA
Having a rough and confusing morning. As I mentioned in previous post, my H and I had a conversation a few weeks back about needed increase in boundaries in our situation. For the most part it all sticking; I leave when H comes here on his scheduled days to see D3, or he takes her to dinner out or at his place. Another one was Saturday mornings; he comes to pick her up first thing, and for a long time they would make a pancake breakfast and we’d all eat together before they left. During our boundaries talk I brought this up, and said as sad as it is for D3, we have to stop doing that as it sends a confusing message to her, it isn’t sustainable and just doesn’t make sense any more. (What I didn’t say, but I’d quite relevant, is that it also makes me incredible sad to have a pretend family breakfast and then send them off for the day.) He agreed and we decided to stop doing it. That stuck for a couple of Saturdays. Then last Saturday he texted before he arrived to ask if it would be ok to mane pancakes with her. I said fine, thinking it would be an occasional one off and that he’d ask first. Then this morning he came in and she asked to make pancakes (as she always does) and he said sure and headed into my kitchen with her. I have SO many feelings. 1) on some level it’s nice and familiar and safe feeling to have them doing that BUT 2) it isnt real and it is unfair to me and to D3 to keep digging the rut of that routine if he truly wants D. 3) I’m extremely sad, having had breakfast with my H and young child and then watching them pack up to go on a beach day to which I’m not invited. 4)I’m really annoyed because now I feel I have to bring it up and have that painful, scary conversation about these boundaries again, and I don’t think it’s fair that I’m in this position. I had that talk already. I thought this problem was taken care of. There is no consistency with H. Nothing sticks. We have these conversations in which he states being 100% sure about moving forward with D and then nothing changes. We had what felt like this big, turning point conversation about boundaries in our relationship and then he just slips back into the old ways. And it’s all on ME to police it and maintain the lines for my sake and the sake of my daughter. I suppose it’s just more cake eating on his part? In taking the path of least resistance for himself regardless of what we decide is best for all? And now I have to decide whether to let it slide or to muster up and talk about it all over again. I’d appreciate advice or input on this
Thanks for that Hrt. I do feel like it’s cake eating on his part, and I wonder if others see it that way as well? I don’t know what else I can do about it, I suppose I need to have the boundaries conversation again. I sort of hate the idea of having to bring it up over and over again; it feels so negative and it takes so much out of me to have those talks. But I do want things to move out of this mode, whatever that may mean.
Hi Hope. I notice that you have boundary 'talks'. Could you just have boundaries for yourself and if he skirts the line, address is as it happens? But don't make it an R talk - for instance - since you said he could make pancakes - just let him and D have breakfast together and don't join in?
Maybe next time just say, this isn't a good time? Everything I've read says not to initiate the R talks, in my mind that would include boundaries. Actions speak louder than words. If you've come across the line, I can see where he thinks it's ok. I might be projecting here - if I allow my H to do one thing, he's in his underwear in my kitchen making himself at home the next tuesday!!
Just a thought. It also might seem confusing if you say he can do something and then have a big talk about it. Just going forward, remember that pancakes aren't something you feel comfortable doing at this time and head it off if you know it will be painful for you later.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
That’s a really good point! I don’t need to make a big talk out of it, I can just take him aside briefly (or talk pit of ear shot of D3) and let him know when I feel he’s crossing boundaries. It’s so simple and yet somehow I hadn’t thought of it that way. It makes it simpler, takes some of the “R talk” weight out of it and makes it feel less heavy and negative. It also feels like a more detached way to approach it. That was super helpful, thank you 97!
I just read quite a bit of your sitch. I can certainly relate to your feelings around cake-eating vs preserving that small amount of quality time together (in some hope that it will trigger him wanting to put things back together and remind him of what he will be missing). I actually struggled with that one for a long time -- many months -- and I would allow H to have family dinners, holidays together and even tried to "save face" in front of the kids. It was especially hard for me tho because I knew about OW and that he was running right back to her when he left. I cringe now to think I allowed any of that. I feel I should have axed off all family time as soon as he moved out and see myself as a doormat. This is me looking back on it years later through a different lens. UGH. I was weak.
Why wasn't I stronger than that? I let him leave me for OW and then do whatever he wanted -- pretend to play family and then live a single life? Why didn't I simply let him be, go dark and hold my head up high? HIS LOSS, OH WELL! (or at least act that way)> He chose to have an A and then chose OW and left me, so he deserved NOTHING from me -- no time together, no attention, no sympathy -- I should have gone dark been indifferent around him and saved my emotional process for safe friends/support. Instead, I cycled between angry/lashing out and then became needy/desperate. I think the strong position would have been to simply let him go -- H doesn't get to control me or my emotions and quite frankly, he chose to break apart this family, so there is no more family time. Period. Oh how I wish I could go back and advise my freshly scorned self!
I also tend to take a much firmer stance than a lot of posters here. Partly because I think that is what works to "win" back a WH and also, more importantly, because I think it serves us better as the LBW and our own integrity. I can see your struggle with allowing the cake eating and I read it in your first posts. It doesn't feel good. I can read that you feel you are compromising yourself. Your husband walked out on you with a little girl, tells you he wants D, and now you guys are having pancake breakfasts on Saturdays as if everything is fine. Of course you are hurting and confused by this! Each time you are together, you feel hope. When he gives you that glance, you feel hope. When you see your D3s little face light up, you feel hope. Could it be that your not so much feeding him cake as you are giving yourself too much hope? Is this "hope" making it harder to let go?
So if you decide, no more cake eating, and you are ready to let it go, then do just that. You do not have to talk about it. You do not need anymore R talks. Boundaries do not need to be discussed or even stated. They are simply the actions you take moving forward. He shows up, you leave. They start making pancakes, you look confused and let him know you have other plans. Do not let his reactions or wanting to talk about it change your course. You are a strong woman and mother, you make your own choices about who makes pancakes in your kitchen and you have your own weekend plans.
DROP THE ROPE. TODAY. YOU CAN DO IT.
And while this may or may not help you -- I will say it -- and that is that men to not leave their Ws to be alone, they leave them for OW. That comes up in almost everyone sitch here and posters will deny, deny, and only to come back months or years later and say yes, there was OW. I know it makes people mad or irritated that I assume that, but it's true and it's a reality that deserves to fuel a little more anger and detachment than I see from the LBWs .... All Ms have issues. As are never justified.
Drop the rope, my dear, you deserve sooooo much more than his cr-p pancake breakfasts ....
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
HopeCA - just chiming in very quickly to say that in my experience, boundaries aren't really boundaries if you have to get someone's agreement for them, or need to discuss them, or need to bargain for them. You just live them. Boundaries are what happens through action, rather than conversation.
I've begged and pleaded and threatened and all sorts in an attempt to get H to stop verbally abusing me. It never worked. So now, I just don't talk to him. We exchange pleasantries at the door if he's in a civil mood, and if he isn't, I ignore him, make a fuss of Youngest, and close the door on him with relief. My boundary is 'I will not be in conversations where I am not spoken to with respect' and I am just living it, rather than trying to get him to participate in it.
Blu—Thank you!!! I LOVE reading your firm stance posts, and I’m really grateful that you took the time to give me one. I welcome it, always!!! I am in tears reading it, for so many different reasons. Yes, I absolutely have allowed H to eat cake because those moments fuel my hope. I can see that is why it scares me so much to set the very boundaries that I want, need and deserve. It’s why I’m so conflicted; I am angry and resentful of his cake eating, and terrified to truly put my foot down and stop allowing it. I am ready to drop the rope. I wish I could have done it sooner, but I wasn’t ready. I felt I needed to exhaust all other approaches, and I have done that. Thank you for that actionable advice: I don’t need to have boundary/R talks. I just need to live my boundaries. As for possible OW, I know that he was seeing someone shortly after he left, because he told me so. He swears up and down that he didn’t meet her until a few months after he left. I am probably as skeptical, assume-he’s- lying-always as a person can be (that’s actually one of the things H didn’t like about our marriage) and I did ultimately believe him. But I also know that it is entirely possible that it’s a lie. But, you are certainly right in that knowing that it is even a possibility that he had an affair or left me when he met someone else, I can most definitely use that to fuel my detachment fire. Blu, from my heart, thank you so much. This is what I’m here for, and you are more than welcome to come back and smack me over the head any time!!
Thank you as well Alison, living our boundaries, not stating them! I suddenly remember my therapist telling me long ago that boundaries are not set for others, you set them for yourself. Thank you both for reminding me!
My H will be here to pick up D3 in a few hours. I plan to be looking amazing, on my way out the door.
