You can't win, U. There is no correct path, or better route to take.
Because it's not about you. And in her mind the R is over. Which is why she was "surprised" you wanted to work on the R.
It has to end in order for it to begin again as something new. In my sit, the old R was not working. I went kicking and screaming (not literally but you get the idea) fought for it tooth and nail, and in the end none of it mattered. I see it for what it was now. And things were not as good as I thought they were.
So I accepted it, got up, and started figuring out how this new thing will look. That's not to say I dont have moments of sadness or regret, but I make it a point to move past those thoughts now. Hard as it is to do.
And I thought I would draw the line at IHS. I came close to leaving. But something told me not to. I'm still not sure what it was or if I was mistaken. It was my gut instinct. For whatever reason I am still here, giving space in an 800 square ft home.
IW - you are right the old R is over. Disruptive change must happen.
I really like your adaptability. These sitches get weird.
Journal-
Talked with W tonight for awhile about some things. I figured we didn’t need to wait until MC next week to feel each other out on this separation thing.
I’m glad we are talking more. Sometimes I make dumb mistakes but just actually talking about stuff is a vast improvement. We won’t fix our MR this way but communication absolutely must happen for our kids sake.
Flood of information. A lot of good stuff, some bad. I would say more but it’s all so subject to interpretation. At the end W asked me for a hug and gave me a 30 second tight hug. One that hasn’t happened in months. It means nothing for R. She is crystal clear what she wants to see from me - deal with my emotional issues.
IW - you are right the old R is over. Disruptive change must happen.
I really like your adaptability. These sitches get weird.
Thanks, man. Yeah they do, sometimes you just gotta roll.with it. I wrote a bunch of stuff on my thread the other day, venting and trying to process/work on myself. By the time I got to the third post I realized just how much I had had to adapt in my life, and the colossal amount of emotional baggage I had been/am carrying with me. That's not to say it was all my fault, because I did not realize I had that much baggage, but now I see very clearly there is an enormous amount of work i have to do on myself, and to grow as a person.
I also brought all that baggage into the relationship without being aware of it.
And yes, you're right - this is disruptive change. But it doesnt have to be negative change, it doesnt have to end with bruised egos and fights and battles over custody, just because that's the "standard". I told W that I am not fighting with her. I told her that regardless of how this turns out I still want to be able to talk to her. That is one of my goals and I cannot do that if we hate each other.
I think if you putthat in your head as a goal (not necessarily communicating it outloud to W, but just think it) it will have a positive impact on your life, wherever it takes you.
You are a better man than me right now IW. If my wife leaves me, I am not sure I will ever be able to look at her again, let alone be at peace with her. She is stealing the love of my life from me, all of my memories and my dreams. I am afraid that I will hate her for that.
You are a better man than me right now IW. If my wife leaves me, I am not sure I will ever be able to look at her again, let alone be at peace with her. She is stealing the love of my life from me, all of my memories and my dreams. I am afraid that I will hate her for that.
I am no better than you, Des. This goal I have has come at a great cost emotionally. I think it comes at a great cost to everyone. That is not to say that I didnt feel like you, or like Unchien, at many times along the way. I still struggle with sadness, frustration, hurt. That's completely normal in situations like these.
I have made it my mission not to hate my W - I have let go of the outcome. I want what is best for me and what is best for her. Even if that is not us being together, as heart wrenching as that might be.
It the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. It will be for you too. But you, me, Unchien everyone here has the choice, has the ability to control how we act.
Concentrate on you. Get quiet, calm, clear, and grounded. As someone told me here once not long ago - be the man only a fool would leave. Dont tell her you're doing it, just get out there, get busy living. Let her see it. Once you do that, you'll have peace of mind that you've done all that you can possibly do.
I feel you Uni. Believe me I do. Those hypersenitivities to "emotional abuse" and the misreading creates serious trust issues, that Im not sure can be restored, and once those romantic feelings go away, i don't think they are coming back. Plus now because they want to divide and seperate for those reasons, it creates even more trust issues with us over them and our children because in both of our minds, both spouses are probably saying
"If they can break my trust and do this to me once, and seperate/divide the family/ have MLC/lose romantic feelings and re-neg on commitment/emotionally abuse me and our family, they can do it again." If they can do it once, they can do it again. Truth of the matter of the heart is forgiveness. Is it worth it? Who is it for? Why do we forgive? To reconcile, or to move on with our lives. The emotions. The decisions. I thought I was ready to pull the trigger on the D. I still am. But Im going to wait until physically seperated. Despite her being a kind and thoughtful person. She just doesn't think like me or understand me, and I don't think she wants to so why bother? Im going to focus on my kid, selling the house, getting my crap out and secured, my own place once its sold. Once I get to that place, and I am stable and not eating out of garbage cans and living out of my car, then I will decide to pull trigger on D. I see it happening either way. But i just want to make sure it's not some of my emotions making the decisions. Its going to take a miraculous amount of forgiveness to ever trust W or any woman for that matter for a very long time. I feel for my W. I do. Sometimes I want to reach out to let her know that I do. That I understand she is hurting too. We all cut off our own noses to spite our faces when we are hurt. In not going to reach out though, im not the one leaving, I said my piece for months and months, and now I'm just leaving it alone.
Uni I know you feel like. If W is feeling and doing these things. What the he'll is the point of continuing? But really. Do the S but wait on the D. Prepare with all the documents for it, but wait. Sometimes people do break down after 2 or 3 years of space and therapy, and realize, and sometimes they move on. I know its hard, but try to make your peace with where you are, and where you are going. I hope you can confidently decide if the trust issues are worth it or not and stick to it consistently.
IW - it is eerie how much I feel the same as you right now. Will respond more later trying to enjoy Father’s Day with the kiddos.
IHC - sane I will respond more later. But yes it’s hard for me to see how my W could ever reach that point of forgiveness necessary for us to R anyhow. That doesn’t mean I need to cut bait today. We’ve had some good talks that have me more trusting of her intentions than say, 4 days ago.
I’m having a hard time with it, but I’m in agreement we need to separate quickly.
I’m really struggling with the “limbo-ness” of separation. My anxious insecurity and need for reassurance is itching away, itching away, itching away, just wanting to ask my W: “Are you really sure you want to give this a shot?”
I agree that she doesn’t trust me, nor does she view me romantically. And the anxiety kicks in: “If she feels that way, then why not just D instead of S?” I guess she could be frightened of my reaction to a D.
I am so WAS-focused. I know. It’s a stressful time. Regardless of S or D, we absolutely need to be apart right now. So maybe I need to focus on getting through the process of actually separating without falling apart. It’s tough. Maybe once we are separated she will file. Maybe not. Either she’s using S as a soft way to get me out of the house before D, or she sees potential. When we talk about the S, she certainly likes to focus on us reconciling if we fix our (mostly my) issues, and does not like to discuss the D path. I don’t know what to make of this.
I don’t think she’s playing games. If anything she’s super assertive since the BD. I appreciate the honesty. It has made for some conflict in parenting but it’s such an improvement to actually talk. But it is harsh and blunt.
It’s tough not to look back at April and May and wonder why my W wouldn’t just talk to me. Why does she recall those months as times where I would not talk to her? It’s so confusing and I want to call her out on it but then... DB kicks in. Or is it NGS? I bite my tongue. Or am I just listening well and validating?
I do trust her as a co-parent. As we’ve talked, I believe I can trust her (at least today) on custody and financial items. The actual separation does not concern me.
I agree that I have to work on my issues, and at the same time, I am frustrated with her denial of her own role. She’s not in 100% denial, but our conversations mostly revolve around what I need to change. I listen, validate. She’s right about a lot of them, some of them I think are joint issues between us. I need space away from her to sort it all out. I can see that. It’s really useful info when it comes to 180s.
Uni you are literally mirroring everything I was going through over the last 7 months thinking and experience with the WAS. The W wasn't pushing for divorce but just separation. I kept on asking her well if you want separation and you're wulling to take this far? Why not just divorce? if there's no romantic feelings there? If we are going to get petty with one another? And divide everything equally? If we can't agree on anything? If I'm the one that has to do all the changing, am being held to constant double standards in all areas? Money, Trust, Child Rearing, Division of Labor, Relationships, Social Commitments and Dynamics, conflict in parenting, perceptions, etc etc. All the things that make up a marriage. I was willing to admit and commit to work on my short comings, acknowledge my failures and take responsibility for them, and own them, but they won't acknowledge theres? Uni all my R talks literally revolved around what I needed to change too, even if I brought hers up in all fairness for comparative reasons. My feelings, my thoughts, my experiences, my truth didn't matter to her. It's as if I wasn't even there, like I didn't even exist. But I was expected to validate all of her experiences. Her feelings, truth and experiences were always more important. I got to a point where I was pushing the questions of "If you are going to take it this far, why not divorce me?" I started to initiate the divorce myself, but couldn't follow through it just yet. Every increment in leading up to the separation, like packing up stuff, and putting stuff away, and moving it out, it's going to hurt it's going to feel like a thousand paper cuts, one at a time over a long period of time. It's going to emotionally psychologically and logically screw with your head from day to day.
What my experience has been is between reading everything and everyone's situation on on here, it's almost like you have to get so fed up with the lack of progress, that you become angry, then you slowly accept and become peaceful, then you get frustrated again and then you accept and then become peaceful. At least for me what I'm trying to say is every time I experienced something moving towards the separation. It makes me angry, then I accept it more with each passing incident. This is why everyone here tells you and tells us to stop focusing on them and start focusing on ourselves. There are things that we need to get done, there are things that we need to realize and internalize, there are things that we need to change, and there are things that we need to move forward with, whether we like it or not.
Remember what I said earlier and posting about how they feel like they're owed some kind of suffrage for putting up with us and all our flaws? How they said things probably along the lines of they've been trying for years and we just didn't see it. I still think this comes down to a communication issue between most men and women, how they think, how they feel, and how they communicate differently. Because men are more simple-minded we tend to brush these things under the rug. We keep a tally of some major instances but we don't keep a running tally of all the bad instances within a marriage. I think that men have more of a sentiment to history. History means something to them. But to the WAS. Their only focus in this phase of their life and where they are at mentally the only thing they are concerned with is the current and the future. And they don't see us in their future Ironicly because of the past. I don't know what this phenomenon is between men and women and why I keep seeing patterns of it in every situation on here. The rewriting of history etc... I unfortunately don't have the answers as to why this is the way it is or what the answers are. I will probably die trying to figure these R dynamics out. I think M and W just love differently. Men see the good from the past, and say "I want more of that in the future." " If I like that experience I don't want to change, I want it to stay the same." I think that women think more along these lines...."Can the man in my life provide me with the future, the feelings, the experiences, and the provisions that I desire?" If not? Then their heart aches, they lose their identity, because they feel that they waste themselves for a lot of years on the relationship when they could have been improving themselves. I think maybe we are just wired and very differently in our thinking and how we love. I'm also noticing that men have a tendency to feel more hurt and angry and women have more of a tendency to feel more sad and resentful for time being wasted. Time is very important to them. Just nature. two opposites dealing with very different emotions and very different thinking
I think though from what I have gathered on here from everyone else's situation, that the best thing that we can do is just give them their space, accept what is going on in the current present reality and move forward without them. we have to make peace with it and we have to make the best of it and we have to carry on with our lives. we have to be okay with it internally and externally. Maybe overtime after physical separation, they will realize that they were flawed and learn from what they contributed to the downfall of the M. Maybe we will improve and they will see it over 2 or 3 years, maybe they won't? May be they will feel its just best to move on? Maybe they'll grow, may be will too? Maybe we will decided its just best to move on?
50% of marriages are successful 50% fail and 50% reconcile. So? I guess its just our imperative to make the best life possible for the circumstances for ourselves and our children. We cannot control another human being. Im trying to be nice, but not be a push over. Trying to accommodate and accept, but not be manipulated, guilted or shamed, trying to see reality for what it is with all relationships but not be a bitter misogynist. I hope this helps.
I assume you are moving forward with you moving out? Have you spoke to a lawyer? Also, I think for your own sanity you need to move forward as this is a soft divorce until you see signs that she is working on the marriage.
My IC/MC once told me that if two people were both committed to save the marriage she had a 100% success rate.
