So so new to this :(

[DnJ]

Good Morning Nyla

D14 has a lot of anger and she needs to release it, to get it out. Threatening OW’s life not a good idea. You need to get this back on track.

Thank H for informing you and assure him that you will deal with D14. Assure him, make sure he knows it, you don’t need police involved.

Next talk with D14. Tell her about MLC. Tell her how her Dad is dealing with some past trauma from his childhood, has changed, and is reliving a time from when his was damaged. Let her know that this hurt / damage from his last is significant, really a big event, usually some abuse or such form an authority figure. This lets her know that she is not destined to experience her Dad’s slip into the abyss.

It also doesn’t hurt to let her know that for the most part Dad’s behaviour is beyond his control. He did try to contain it for a while, but eventually his crisis becomes so great that he explodes and destroys himself and quite a few around him. He is running from his pain, and OW is just a distraction.

People have a need to understand something before they can move on or let go - children are no different.

I would also explain that OW is “usually” a damage person as well. D16 is correct, someone who goes after a married man with three kids - yeah, OW is not a nice person. She is damaged emotionally also.

Now, you can probably see D16 is projecting her anger towards Dad into OW. D16 will have enough anger for OW, all on OW’s merit and actions. And will get much more because D16 cannot risk losing her Dad.

Tell D14 it is ok to be angry, however talking to OW obviously doesn’t do any good. So, you and her need to find her a safe and proper outlet to release her anger. Something physical, sweat it out. Buy a punching bag, go for a run, join a gym, etc...

You and D14 sit down and together block OW on all social media. You can confirm to D14 that OW is what she is, that her views are correct, and D14 doesn’t need to associate with her - on a social platform. She is not her friend, so do not spend your time on her. Eventually she will see OW as just a hurt person, but not for a while

D14 can control only herself. A lesson you will want to pass along a some point. D14 cannot wake up Dad or OW - she only controls herself. She needs to see that, and be responsible for her actions.

Nyla, D14 is grieving. This is bargaining. She is attempting to change the outcome. A good thing. D14 is moving towards acceptance, even though she does not, and will not, see that yet. The bargaining stage is expected; everyone rebels against change, or attempts to bargain against it. She will traverse it. She just needs to realize their are lines she shouldn’t cross.

This is a big topic for you and your kids. The door has been flung open, make full affect of this opportunity. MLC is a horrible painful time, and an incredible opportunity for growth and understanding - even for a child. How you treat someone who is suffering, how you felt during this time and the realization that you do not want to ever make some else ever feel that, that you can only control you, and so on. Just a few examples. Children are thirsty sponges looking for knowledge. Some big life lessons are right there. Most people never look beyond all the pain.

You are blessed Nyla, you have compassion and can teach, show, at least three people how to live better instead of bitter.

This is where you focus. You and your kids.

DnJ

[peacetoday]

HI

Totally agree with DnJ
Obviously from OW responses..
she is not stable
Nothing good can come from any interaction with the OW and again I would guard all the kids from her
she only has and will always have her needs and agenda coming first
the kids are no one to her-

Talk to D
Make her aware of MLC
Dad is not bad..
OW is not Bad
THey are terribly wounded souls
We work to forgiveness
The kids have to see you striving for forgiveness
Nice words toward H
he is a good man..just sick
sometimes people get mentally ill
not your fault
he has unresolved childhood wounds


You become the sounding board of all communication for your kids
maybe a therapist also who gets teens and MLC

I would also explain to D the seriousness of threats especially these days-
and she can feel free to verbalize her anger and hate of OW to you

Heres where we have to be stronger than we are
Even when we are whirling with wounds ourselves---we have to be adult
We can give the kids facts in an adult way leaving our emotions for us and our therapist to deal with

[Gerda]

Oh, Nyla, I am grieving for you. (And thank you for the tears on my last response, you should see my tears in writing it!)

My son is the same as your daughter, and same age.

He completely transformed when his dad went crazy. He was eight years old. Then he became a school refuser in 7th grade, missed 75 days of school. Shoplifting and many other things. The key was to keep the lines of communication open. Make sure she keeps trusting you and sees your strength and your ability to forgive. My son is my cross, but I am carrying him while he carries his own cross (that's a heavy load!), and he doesn't even know that he is carrying one or why or how, let alone see any meaning in it.

Tell her you love her constantly. And tell her that you respect her fire and her anger and her very clear sense of right and wrong, and that her morals will make her a great woman. Keep validating who she is -- because she is totally right, she is seeing things very clearly, like Huckleberry Finn choosing to go to hell if that's what he had to do to free Jim.

But tell her also that when she is ready to start thinking about forgiveness, that it will free her, that she doesn't want this terrible lady to change who she is or make it impossible for her to ever see her dad again. But that she can take as long as she wants to think about that, just to know that that freedom is out there one day for her.

DnJ and Peacetoday gave great advice. I would like to add to that -- show her some movies and get her to write. Show her "Good Will Hunting" and "The Four Hundred Blows" and "Ferris Bueller's Day Off." Let her see that adults do some crazy stuff and kids can't change that, even if it hurts them deeply. If she likes to write, have her write her feelings in poetry or work on a film script. Or have her write a short story about a girl just like her, tell her to use any details she wants and fictionalize or don't fictionalize what she wants. Teens love to write when given the chance to write from the heart. If you want, I can even send you some ideas if you tell me if she wants to write poetry or fiction or a screenplay. I am going to paste some below that I found on the internet, for you and her to do together. Give her a really beautiful journal and a really gorgeous set of pens.

Let her know that one day she will be able to know her dad again and that it will be better for her to have her dad in her life, even if she can't respect or understand his choices, even if they hurt her and he doesn't understand that. But that for now it's okay if she feels differently. If you are Catholic, I can recommend a great book I just got my daughter that helps kids process divorce issues without condoning divorce in any way.

If you are a religious family, I can also recommend some prayers she can say for herself and for her family and yes, for her dad.

Here are some prompts I found that look good, for you to do together if she wants. You can add some that relate to your family situation once you get the hang of it. I couldn't do this with my son but we go on walks at midnight or 1 in the morning, whenever he asks me, and that's when he likes to go, and we talk about things like this. But with a girl I bet she would write about it with you -- in a journal or in letters.

I can send some for creative writing if she would write about her life in poems or stories/scripts. Once DnJ wrote a letter to my son, which I gave to my son, and it was really powerful. I can do that for her too. My parents split up when I was her age, and I learned rage then, and it haunted me until about five years ago. I understand her very well!

((((NYLA)))))) -- and even more, (((((Nyla's daughter)))))))

1) Both: What is your favorite season of the year? What is it that makes this stand out from the others?
2) Both: If you could be any animal for a day, what would you choose? Why does this animal appeal to you? Can
you think of any down-sides to being this animal?
3) Parent: Describe your favorite memory from school (around age your child is now).
Child: Describe the best day of school you have ever had and why.
4) Parent: Were you ever bullied as a child? If yes, share your experience and how it made you feel. If not, share
about bullying you witnessed in school.
Child: Have you ever been bullied at school? If yes, share about your experience and how you feel about it. If not, share about bullying you see happen at school.
5) Both: Describe your favorite memory from the last year.
6) Both: “The best thing about being ME is: ______.”
7) Both: “The hardest part about being ME is ______.”
8) Both: What would you do to help the poor if money was not an issue?
9) Parent: Describe the day you brought your child home from the hospital. How did you feel?
Child: Describe your earliest memory.
10) Both: What is one belonging that you will NEVER throw away?
11) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you love the most.
12) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you dislike the most.
13) Both: Close your eyes and imagine the most relaxing place possible. Where is this place? Describe how it looks,
feels and smells. Is this a real place?
14) Both: What is your favorite food? Can you explain why you like it so much?
15) Both: “If I received $1000 to spend on anything I wanted, I would buy ___. Here is why: ___.”
16) Both: What is the thing that scares you the most? Can you explain why?
17) Both: “My favorite memory with you is _____.”
18) Parent: “My biggest wish for you is _____.”
Child: “My biggest hope for my future is _____.”
19) Both: “The number one thing I would like to change about myself is: ____. Here is why: ____.”
20) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 5 years?
21) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 10 years?
22) Parent: “For me, school was _____.”
Child: “For me, school is _____.”And more!
23) Parent: “The hardest part of being an adult is _____.” Child: “The hardest part of being a teenager is ____.”
24) Both: The best advice you have ever received.
25) Both: The thing I think I am best at is ______. How do you know?
26) Both: Do you believe in ghosts? UFOs? Why or why not?
27) Both: The nicest thing anyone has ever said to you. How did you feel when you heard it?
28) Parent: Is there something you wish you had done or tried as a teen? What is it and why?
Child: Is there something new you would like try, but haven’t? What is it and why?
29) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and tried to hide it. How did that work?
30) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and were honest about it. How did that work?
31) Both: What three items would you want with you if you were stranded on a deserted island?
32) Parent: What was dating like for you in middle school and high school?
Child: What is your experience with dating? Are you happy with your experiences?
33) Both: What is your favorite song of all time? What do you think about when you hear it?
34) Both: If you were to get a tattoo today, what would you get? If you would not get one, explain why.
35) Both: My questions for you about sex and sexuality.
36) Both: My answers to your questions about sex and sexuality. (It is fair for both of you to include “I am not
comfortable answering that question” in your responses.)
37) Both: Describe yourself in five sentences. Explain if desired.
38) Both: Describe the other person in five sentences. Explain if desired.
39) Both: What worries you most about getting older?
40) Parent: What do you most hope your child will learn to do before they are on their own?
Child: What do you need help with learning before you move away from home?
41) Both: If we could go on a road-trip together, where would you want to go first? Second? Third?
42) Both: What would you like to be an expert on? Describe what and why.
43) Both: “Sometimes it is hard for me to tell you _______.”
44) Parent: “When I was your age, my hero was _______. This is why I admired this person: ____.”
Child: “My hero is ________. This is why I admire this person: _____.”
45) Both: My very favorite meal is _____. Tell why you love this so much.
46) Both: What is the one thing you need to do or see every day? Why?
47) Both: “My favorite thing to day dream about is ______. Here is why: _____.”
48) Both: One activity you would like to do together in the next month and why. (Start making some plans!)
49) Both: The house hold chore you hate the most and why.
50) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel happy.
51) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel sad.
52) Both: Describe your favorite thing about the other person.

[Nyla79]

Thank you so much (again) for your support. Now that I’m still visiting my hometown I’ve had such a hard time. This is where we spent most of our marriage, and the people here who are trying to be supportive, have no idea what mlc is. In addition to that, my kids know that the OW is now living with their dad, so they’re all a mess too. I find it easier to be at home in Spain rather than in here. Luckily, I have our summerhouse where I can go and be alone with the kids, but so far the weather hasn’t permitted it. (It is on an island and with the wind I haven’t been able to (or dared to) drive our little boat there.

DnJ, I talked with D14 about mlc, and she seemed relief to hear that there’s some explanation to her fathers craziness. She said he acts so weird all the time. Like when they had dinner the other night, he had shown her his mobile banking, because he has access to the companys that his managing accounts. (Which I think is quite bad given his mlc) She was confused because she knows it’s not his money. She felt like he was trying to brag with it.

I told her that it is good to let the anger out, but it won’t change anything. I also told her that the OW is also a broken person who has been fed lies by her father. She just doesn’t understand how someone can just walk away from a marriage like this without even trying to fix it. I again told her that these are his inner struggles and we don’t know if or when he will come out of this, but that I would stand for our marriage for as long as I can, because I do love him. I think that made her feel a bit better too, knowing that we (well one of us) haven’t completely given up on this.

Peacetoday, you are so right about being stronger than we are. My D14 had shown D12 the messages she had sent and D12 was at first angry at her dad and the OW but then changed into feeling bad for the OW. She said that “Think about it, mum, she was just there having a nice day and then all the sudden she gets these really mean messages from D14. Think how bad she must have felt” My poor girl, I tried to tell her that she shouldn’t worry about her fathers or the OW’s feelings, but to try to focus on her own and trying to work thru them. She said she doesn’t want to talk about her feelings to anyone anymore. I think she will need therapy, now that she know the OW is with her dad, she’s so angry at me all the time. I walk into a room and she looks at me and rudely asks what do I want? And then tells me to leave. If I don’t leave, she goes to another room. Same with S10. Sigh.

Gerda, thank you so much for your reply. I will watch the movies with my girls. And the journal idea I already introduced to my D12, she loves that kind of stuff. The letter you mentioned, that would be wonderful for both of my daughters. To have someone else explain this for them in a much better way than I think I can. If you ever have time for that, I would be so, so grateful. <3

I love the writing prompts you sent I’m going to try to do them with all of my kids. Might not work with S10, but I’ll give it a try.

Thank you all again, I don’t know where I would be without you all <3 <3 <3

[DnJ]

Good Morning Nyla

Good job talking with D14. That sounded like it went really well. D14’s path, and D12, S10, and your’s - are made up of many small steps. You will have further conversations, and her anger will abate. We cannot expect anyone to get this in one sitting, so I am sure as D14 processes what was discussed more questions will come.

A few things I would like to highlight.

It was really good to see how you didn’t demonize OW, that is rare, usually the LBS pours their anger and hatred into that person. However, she is not blameless in all this. Yes OW is a broken person being fed lies, she is also feeding H lies as well. She did get, and is, involved with a married man. D14 may need to see that OW and Dad is a two way street.

I am very happy to see you - all on your own I might add so great job - told D14 about you standing. Your part and views in all of this. That is the role model for them. Awesome Nyla. Really. You said is just right, standing and believing in your marriage for as long as you can, because you love him. Children really respond well to that. That is a beacon they need and will follow.

I fully get how it feels with D14 angry at you all the time. My S17 was so full of rage. He and I had to talk about that. I understood that he could not lash out towards Mom. He knew that, and his feelings were confused, all perfectly normal - something he (and D14) needed to hear. It is ok to go about your stuff and if D14 leaves the room that is fine. In time she will actual come back, and even not leave. This is a particularly difficult part of the path. Letting our children grow from this mess.

Continue with your gentle leading and be a great Mom and role model.

DnJ

[Nyla79]

Thank you so much again DnJ <3

I need quick help!!! I'm fuming and so close to call my H.

I had previously told you guys that D12 found out about the OW by accidentally seeing their messages on his iPad. I just found out from my niece that there had been nude pictures of both of them there!!! I want to call that piece of poop and tell him exactly what I think of him and his morals and what he is doing to the kids with this behaviour. No wonder D12 is so angry and [censored] down. Who wants to see nude pictures of their dad?!?

What do I do? Do I confront him or not? At this point I feel like I really don't care if he comes back or not. I don't want a person like that in mine, nor the kids lives. Makes me sick!!! I am so full of anger right now that i can't even write what I wish for him.

[job]

Breathe! You want to be as calm as possible when dealing w/him on this issue. I would either call or text him and set up a meeting to speak to him privately about this issue and advise him of what your daughter saw on his iPad. I would ask him to please change the password and not give it to the kids again if he's going to be storing nude photos on it.

BTW, I would be furious too....but you will get your point across more effectively if you stay calm and speak in a level tone. Otherwise, he'll put the blame on your child for using his electronic equipment w/o his knowledge. They love to blame others for their stupidity.

[DnJ]

I will write more later. Pretty busy at the moment.

Give yourself 24 hours at least before talking to him. Damage done, now you need to remedy - and you need the be calm.

Talk to kids. Yeah this is not a great topic. Sure glad she came to you with this.

Breathe. It is ok to be really mad. But breathe and deal with H when you are calmer.

[peacetoday]

I agree with the others and may add

Know your legal rights and see if there is anyway-you can legally protect the kids from too much or any contact with H right now until you can get things in agreement

I just don't feel the MLCer is truly capable of safely parenting teens or younger
and your H is showing real signs of neglect for them

They are very self focused and I don't think very rational and whatever you say will go in one ear and out the other-

But any discussions with him need to be rational and calm on your end-
he may deny it and or lie/so your words may not be even heard-
or he may comply only to do something else that is careless
You know him better than me

but I would consider legal advice to see if there is a way he can have supervised/or very limited visits
like out to dinner for 2 hours then home
or out to movie and ice cream for 4 hours and home

He is gone in his mind-and may never return
but the kids deserve a safe/protected environment to grow up healthy

Remember one stable parent can make all the difference
I would not be afraid to stand up to him and set limits/visits around the kids-

[DnJ]

Good Morning Nyla

How are things settling out with the situation?

I believe you still have one more week in hometown. Do enjoy the time - all this stuff can wait - really.

I hope your anger has subsided and you and kids have talked a bit more. Nyla, you are an awesome role model for them. Consider this event, consider how ever you handle it, your kids will be learning some really valuable lessons.

My XW flaunted her affair and adultery. At one point early on she came to the house to discuss getting divorced and told us that 30 minutes ago she and OM just had sex. Really? So a quick shower, pull on some jeans, and come over here. I didn’t want to know that, and I’m sure my son really didn’t need that seared into his mind either.

MLCer do stupid immature rebellious stuff. And they will blame anyone and everyone for any consequences that arise from their stupidity. There really isn’t any reasoning with someone in that state. Just got to let them be, give them space, and protect you and yours.

Once your back, and calm (which I am pretty sure you will find quickly, you are a logical thoughtful gal), you can look into some further legal options. You can look into further discussions with H, and the setting of boundaries. You can decide what course of action you want to take. By the way, you can take more than one - don’t want to make it seem like it’s either or.

If may be a little bold. Before making a decision it is a good idea to get feedback from here. You have many people here who follow you, and care about you and your situation - I am one of them. If you want, you can see if someone else has experienced any pitfalls or problems when implementing their own similar decisions. They may even have a different solution you’ve never considered.

Nyla, I hope you realize you are doing alright. Please know you are not alone in all this. At times it does get rather overwhelming, remember to breathe, and keep putting one foot in front of the other while you walk this most difficult path.

DnJ