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unchien Offline OP
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IW - you are speaking to my heart.

I’m not saying I am cowed by my W’s abuse talk, and so far the threats are indirect. Indirect but real. My worst case here is getting in a nasty custody battle. This means treading carefully, making sure my custody needs are met. This would include if we separate that I feel safe in our arrangement so I don’t get screwed if we end up divorcing. Without L’s involved.

It is tricky to navigate but the calmer I am the better. Basically if we separate which right now I agree to (terms are debatable) I need to feel safe and secure that my rights as a father are solid. I need some trust. I don’t know what that means exactly, and TBH it is hard to trust my W right now. Or really to trust my W in a year if we go down the D route and things get contentious.

And yes, this trust is a big part of whether I would consider R. Just like she says she needs to build trust with me, and it’s hard to define how to do that, I need to build trust with her, meaning I can’t always be waiting for abuse allegations.

So yeah this trust is affecting how I look at things More than who lives where. I plan to address this in MC next week. But I can’t define exactly what I’m looking for to be assured.

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Originally Posted by unchien
IW - you are speaking to my heart.

I’m not saying I am cowed by my W’s abuse talk, and so far the threats are indirect. Indirect but real. My worst case here is getting in a nasty custody battle. This means treading carefully, making sure my custody needs are met. This would include if we separate that I feel safe in our arrangement so I don’t get screwed if we end up divorcing. Without L’s involved.

It is tricky to navigate but the calmer I am the better. Basically if we separate which right now I agree to (terms are debatable) I need to feel safe and secure that my rights as a father are solid. I need some trust. I don’t know what that means exactly, and TBH it is hard to trust my W right now. Or really to trust my W in a year if we go down the D route and things get contentious.

And yes, this trust is a big part of whether I would consider R. Just like she says she needs to build trust with me, and it’s hard to define how to do that, I need to build trust with her, meaning I can’t always be waiting for abuse allegations.

So yeah this trust is affecting how I look at things More than who lives where. I plan to address this in MC next week. But I can’t define exactly what I’m looking for to be assured.


Exactly.

I'm not suggesting to ignore advice, or to follow advice 100 percent. But I am suggesting that taking advice and learning how to apply it to your sit (or mine or anyones) is most important. It has taken some trial and error in my sit, bc some of the advice I followed and experimented with did not go over well (at ALL). Others went way better than expected. Each S will react differently in each unique sit.

That being said the very helpful advice being given here by some amazing people based on previous experience is absolute treasure (shout out to you all)

The key elements as always is to focus on yourself and the kids. I think because those areas are where the most control lies.

The variable is how W reacts. Which is also why I think DB teaches not to react.

The thing we have to figure out is how to interact for practical purposes when necessary. That and the challenge of keeping things civil and calm while still projecting assertiveness.

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^^^ When retaining the MBR and staying in the marital home, it is much more than a power play dynamic. It should be intended for the sole purpose of your children, your legal rights, and protecting your parental rights and their rights intact. Some of us on here who are quasi-legalistic clearly know this, but personal circumstances and BD sometimes cloud our judgement with emotions, until "the legal game" is really on. By all means use a mediator. The Family Court is a unchecked fictitious racket "court of equity" with no oversight incentivising support orders via federal funding. Check out the movie Divorce Corp. Very eye opening of the family court legal system, how it operates, how it is conflictive with Supreme Court Case Law, and Constitutional Law. Pretty much everything my brother was saying to me for over 18 years as a pro se litigant.

Last edited by IHCLACS; 06/15/19 02:41 AM.
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Uni have you considered drafting a parental plan? There are plenty of templates online. If W agrees it can become legally binding in family court, and is usually good premptive measure, before filing for CS.

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Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Uni have you considered drafting a parental plan? There are plenty of templates online. If W agrees it can become legally binding in family court, and is usually good premptive measure, before filing for CS.

What is CS?

What concerns me most is custody. Your idea of a parenting plan sounds interesting. Best would be something we jointly type up and sign off, without lawyers. I don’t know if that’s binding or not. Perhaps such a plan would alleviate my concerns about trust.

As of this moment, I view accepting trial separation as a leap of faith. Faith that UC can handle this new limbo situation. Faith that it will be worth trying. Faith that in the process, I will either see progress in my R or not (especially in MC), and make good decisions for myself.

I believe a truly confident man can assess the nuances of his sitch and make appropriate decisions. In this case, I don’t think I need to lawyer up for the TS. For instance, I don’t need to worry about finances. I’m not going to make a fuss about it. Yeah, it’s expensive. OK. Not the end of the world. Money is traceable. My W is not going to go date. If she does, I’ll file for D. There’s what’s important and what’s not. I am not feeling adversarial about this. This is a leap of faith. The more legal I make it, the more I’m saying let’s just D. So what’s important? What I want in my life going forward is a great relationship with my kids, and to be a better UC. If my W wants to join us (shine the flashlight back), she’s welcome... if we aren’t too far down that path.

Now I’m going to ramble some more...

I also think I have the option to stop the TS at any time. So I can stay curious, calm, and make thoughtful, considered decisions on a day-by-day basis. What do I need to see in the TS to avoid D? Better communication. Change in the abusive narrative. And my W valuing my opinions and feelings again.

Is that possible? Is it worth trying? Do I want to be with someone who thinks (or ever thought) this of me?

Right now, I think yes (remotely), not sure, not sure.

My W started MC with abuse talk. She is afraid of me. She established that right away. This wasn’t an act, it is her truth. I can completely disagree with the reality of it, but it is her truth. When I said I wanted to “lean in” to the MR, she was stunned. She was confused. She did not know how to respond. Her trial separation request was clearly not thought out. Later that night, she wanted to talk to me. For the first time in 3 months. It was a peculiar and interesting talk. DB says don’t try to mind-read, so I won’t try to over analyze what all this means. It is a fact she expected me to ask for D. I do not believe she is diabolical enough to have this master plan to screw me over perfectly playing out right now. That’s not because I have rose-colored glasses on, it’s because I still view her as a hurt, scared human being, and I do have some empathy. It just so happens I’m the person she blames. I listened a lot, I validated.

Example: I came back from a business trip 2 months ago with a gift. She told me “You don’t need to get me a gift.” I said, “Oh I know I was just thinking of you and how much extra work it is when I”m gone an how I appreciate you” and she said “You don’t need to get me a gift.” Next trip, I get no gift. I figured, she’s already thinking of leaving me, don’t pressure her.

Guess what? She WANTED A GIFT. We hashed out why, and it’s pointless details, but I basically said “Thank you for sharing this with me, this is really good feedback because I want to know how you are feeling and why, so I can be more responsive.” The reality is she could have just told me why she didn’t want a gift the first time, and I would have understood and validated. And then gotten her a gift the second time. I mean... the communication issues... oof. But at least she shared something. There were other things like that. Mostly examples of misunderstandings which I tried to avoid defending, and just validated. Again, it’s all one-sided right now, UC is to blame.

So every day I need to revisit — is it possible for her to value me again? Is it worth trying? Do I want to be with someone who ever thought I was deserving of the abuse label?

And... are we making any progress...

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These are all great thoughts and valid concerns. Like my own sich. I see a great deal of confusion and flip flopping in our WAW'S and in ourselves. I think the same way we analysis their behaviors for consistency, we are analyzing there's.

Ex Uni WAW: "I want a gift, no I don't want a gift, you don't have to get me a gift. You are emotionally abusive to me. Why are you so distant from me? I want a seperation. You want to work on the marriage? I'm surprised."

You see all the contradictory there? She doesn't know what she wants. Your W like mine, probably wants a lot of the dynamics beteeen the two of you to change since she can no longer continue on like this. The both of you are looking for that change through actions, not words, and Im willing to bet that it is you that has to do all the changing in her perception? Right? After all... If she wanted to work on the communication and trust issues, she would actively be working torwards the M? No? I would save these talks for MC since perception, coping skills, and communications can become greatly skewed.

Dealing with these trusts, misperceptions, mind reading, and flip flopping is literally the double standard I speak of and is the definition of insanity. So deal with it on your own terms of your own actions, and leave their devices to theirs.

As far as a legal parenting plan. You can just Google it and download it. Its a simple template you can find anywhere.

Last edited by IHCLACS; 06/15/19 10:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by IHCLACS


You see all the contradictory there? She doesn't know what she wants. Your W like mine, probably wants a lot of the dynamics beteeen the two of you to change since she can no longer continue on like this. The both of you are looking for that change through actions, not words, and Im willing to bet that it is you that has to do all the changing in her perception? Right? After all... If she wanted to work on the communication and trust issues, she would actively be working torwards the M? No? I would save these talks for MC since perception, coping skills, and communications can become greatly skewed.

.


Remember the quote "believe none of what she says and half of what she does". As IH says above if she wanted to work on the MR she would show it through action. Uni, sorry to be blunt but your actions are still being driven by hope of R. I understand the hope for R but in most cases getting to R is taking DB actions that are counter intuitive. Looking from the outside your head is still stuck in the fog. The sooner you can get out of the fog the better for you. Sorry to be blunt, I know this is hard but I see a lot of signs of your actions being driven by hope of R. The hope itself is not bad but remember what the vets advice about the counterintuitive approach that works.

Stay strong U!




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Quote


Remember the quote "believe none of what she says and half of what she does". As IH says above if she wanted to work on the MR she would show it through action. Uni, sorry to be blunt but your actions are still being driven by hope of R. I understand the hope for R but in most cases getting to R is taking DB actions that are counter intuitive. Looking from the outside your head is still stuck in the fog. The sooner you can get out of the fog the better for you. Sorry to be blunt, I know this is hard but I see a lot of signs of your actions being driven by hope of R. The hope itself is not bad but remember what the vets advice about the counterintuitive approach that works.

Stay strong U!



I agree. This takes time, a lot of time, and you'll have to go through a grieving process, because it is the end of your MR. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you can move to a place where you might be ready to see if you can start a new R with your W. What that R looks like is undetermined.

For example, even though my W is still here IHS, I have accepted that the old MR is gone. I dont think she believes me yet, when I have told her that during the last few times when she wanted to talk about the R. Because up until 3 months ago i was still trying to work on the R and she had left it 6 months even earlier than that.

Right now my goal is to be friends. (And yes I know I'll take all kinds of flak for that but I dont really care.) Everyone's sit is different. If it becomes more than that, I'll take that road when I get to it. But I cant think like that right now and i won't.

I know it [censored]. It's really unfair. But it's a problem that they have. We can be compassionate and empathetic, but this is a journey they have to take and we can only work on ourselves/kids right now.

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IHS is out of the question.

It’s either make a stand in my home or propose a separation plan. Or file myself.

I know I need the sep plan to be a good transition to divorce because I may bail out soon. I agree W is showing no initiative to change. We had 1 MC session that threw her off a bit. I’ll see next session or two where she’s at. If I’m still the abuser and completely at fault... whether it’s true or not this M is dead and we should D.

It’s hitting hard today while we play family with the kids. Everything is great except for us. I thought I was over the grief part but it’s hitting hard.

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I’ve been sitting 3 days thinking over the decision I need to make by next Wednesday.

My W feels emotionally abused from past events like my car pullover. The lingering effects are that she is hyper sensitive to my moods. And misreads me a lot. We need to by physically separate for some time. I am in agreement.

Looking back I don’t think she’s felt romantic towards me in about a year now though. I pressured her for affection, not all the time, but enough to destroy things.

And she feels like I’ve had other emotional issues going back 2-3 years.

I don’t think she is trying to screw me over. But I need to look at this and think... do I want to save this? Can it be saved? It seems impossible. For one I have to regain her trust emotionally. Tall order even if I continue the hard work I am putting in. Secondly she has to regain romantic feelings towards me.

And meanwhile I will feel shut out.

Is it worth it? I don’t know. Is it possible to do this? I don’t know.

I feel like I’m walking a tightrope. Fall off on one side and I’m in a divorce legal nightmare custody battle. Fall off the other side and I’m in a lousy separation which I shouldn’t have agreed to. Walk perfectly and I become a stronger person and heal... and MAYBE my W comes along. I’m just trying to walk that tightrope and be outcome-independent if I can. I guess I’m trying to say... I’m trying to pick a DB path that is not tethered to R, but also makes me feel good about my future no matter what happens. Right now I feel awful.

Idk... the emotional abuse victim piece makes it hard for me to feel any hope. I file for D and that reinforces the victim role.

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