GAL needs some work. I'm working mainly from home at the moment, in a quiet period. It means I can pretty much please myself, and also that I'm alone most of the time. I get out to a beach or the park or somewhere beautiful every day on my own, and often also with the kids. I'm taking the time to spend some special time with Eldest once or twice a week when Youngest is with H. I meet up with my friends for coffee - and rarely talk about my situation - at least twice a week, if not more. I talk on the phone with friends almost every day. I'm a member of a spiritual practice group and I go once a week - I could go three times a week, but as I'm in on my own with the kids most night, I feel worried about leaving them that often. As Youngest will be having his contact time at his father's house and not here from now on, I could and should get out a bit more.
My concentration is shot. I'm not reading much, not working much, and my house admin is totally behind. The bills are paid, but I need to sort out my accounts and deal with some tax matters and I haven't bothered. Those things really need dealing with.
I'm not being creative at all (this is my work but also my GAL) and I haven't introduced any new hobbies since separation, and I would like to. I'd really like to get to the cinema a bit more - there's a good independent cinema I haven't spent enough time in.
I also need to put in some work for my promotion at work. There's a significant amount of preparatory work to do. I have had some initial meetings with a mentor and my boss, and I have the paperwork - it's just a case of getting started on it. The deadline is nowhere near, but I do need to start working through the stuff to give the people lined up to help me time to read the package and give feedback.
I'm getting friends to help me sort out the garden this weekend. I could do more there too - do some planting or landscaping. I've never gardened before and I don't know the first thing about it, but I have the time and means and I am healthy and physically capable.
Does eldest have his own time with H then? They sound like very sensible GAL plans, a mixture of new things and friends and looking after yourself and your relationships, I too would like to go to the cinema more. I think just having a list of films handy and booking ahead is the way to actually follow through with that intention. I think your dog (and resultant walking) probably qualifies as a new hobby? But there's always scope for more!
Oh yes. Dog has been a total life saver. Gets me out and about every day, exercise and fresh air, and also talking to new people every day. I didn't know this, but dog walkers are a very chatty bunch. I remember their dogs' names but not the human names! Must work on that...
Mission for today: go and book myself a few cinema tickets, however this talk with H does or doesn't go. The weather is appalling so I think even the most die-hard GAL advocates will forgive me for leaving it as it is - slightly bedraggled but generally respectable - today!
I love your GAL activities!! I took myself to see "Secret life of pets II" and laughed my head off!! I deliberately sought out a comedy with no love traps! Don't need to be triggered in a movie theatre lol
Just commented on Dilly's thread re: Blu's 2x4. I definitely needed to read that (and have read it countless times since).
Hope your talk goes well and that you feel strong and confident and sure!! Garden and work are good for you right now, I'm jealous of the friends you have nearby to help! Focus on the people who love you.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Ultimatums are never good. They push people into a corner, and people pushed in corners come out fighting. But it is also no good worrying about things that have already passed. Get up and brush yourself off (which it sounds like you're doing).
Alison, read back through your posts. There is so much less H, and so much more Alison in them now. You are looking forward and doing things for you. BTW - looking forward is not the same as looking away.
There are so many good films out now. I just took the kids to watch MIB. D12 is a huge Chris Hemsworth fan (so am I tbh :)).
Thank you everyone for kind messages and encouragement.
So - Friday was weird. Not awful, but odd. He started by wanting to talk about how uncomfortable he felt at the prospect of taking Youngest to a school event later that day - there was a loose plan that H would take him as Friday was his usual day, but I was willing to come along if it was what Youngest wanted. H spoke at length, and I validated, about how uncomfortable he was thinking that other school parents knew our business. I haven't spoken to anyone and don't really have school mum friends - but I validated anyway. We went on our walk and it was okay - in that he was polite, if a bit withdrawn. We talked about finances - he wants to pay half of Youngest's childcare costs and a third of the mortgage, which seems very fair to me given I earn more than he does. So we agreed that for the time being. We also talked about Youngest's birthday, he said he'd take Youngest to see his family at their home, and we'd split costs for the party and presents 50/50 and that was more than fine with me, so that was good too. We talked a bit about therapy - he'd found a therapist, and he talked a bit about what he wanted to get out of it. He wanted to repair things, but said he didn't know what his contribution was towards what had gone wrong, and was hoping the therapist would tell him that. I said I knew I had work to do on taking care of my own feelings and valuing his wants and needs, and I was open to hearing other things that I hadn't thought of. I said I was worried that I'd done the work of thinking and looking inwards, and that he hadn't, and that when I've tried to ask him for changes - like an end to the sarcasm and verbal abuse - that it either made him angry, or he got defensive, or he blamed it on me, and none of that made me feel that he was in a place where hearing any of that from me in a therapy room would make any difference. I could see some changes - he talked about being hurt, and struggling with his anger - and that was new, and I've not heard him be open about his feelings like that or take responsibility for them. So in the end I decided I would go to therapy with him, and he emailed the therapist and asked for an appointment.
The weird thing was - well - I felt little. Not happy or hopeful or relieved. It was difficult to make conversation with him. I tried asking him a little about his work, which just unleashed another torrent of moaning and complaints. I tried chatting to him about my work, and what the kids had been up to, but he didn't seem interested. It was... well, boring. I couldn't think of a single thing to talk to him about other than practicalities, and we'd covered those pretty amicably. We were a little affectionate with each other - held hands a little - but he felt remote, like a stranger, and I was struggling to remember what we used to talk about. I enjoyed the walk, but hand on heart I think I'd have enjoyed it more with a friend, with the kids or alone.
I went to take Youngest to the school event, and he stayed in the house and made tea. He wanted me to tell Youngest that he had a work meeting and couldn't go, and I said I didn't feel comfortable lying. In the end Youngest didn't ask, and we had a nice meal together.
It all went a bit south in the evening - he'd bought some beer and got a bit tipsy, and Eldest was awkward and difficult and combative, I stuck to the agreement we'd made about boundaries and consequences, but he didn't - and approached Eldest with usual contempt and sarcasm. It's like he'd rather sneer and make a catty remark than say 'don't speak to me that way,' and I don't understand it. I went into the kitchen and said, 'I know this is stressful. Let's tackle this together the way we agreed. I'm on your side,' and he huffed and shrugged me away. His mood tanked further the more he drank and he started being very snappy and irritable. The dog jumped up and attacked some knitting that was near him, and I called out to him with urgency (I was trying to get his attention - not angry, just a bit louder than usual) but before I could ask him to retrieve the knitting, he was on his feet ranting and shouting. I stayed calm (both kids where there) and asked him to stop. He was ranting - saying I was attacking him and shouting at him. I said 'I just called your name, once,' and he said he wouldn't be blamed for the dog, etc etc - it was really crazy stuff. I asked him again to calm down. I said I just wanted to get his attention. I spoke really quietly and respectfully and he said I was shouting at him and telling him off. I know 100% that I wasn't. The kids witnessed all of this, which i regret. I didn't see any way of rescuing the evening.There was no convincing him. I said I thought I should call him a taxi so he could go home (he was past driving at that point) and that inflamed him so much he packed up his stuff and left there and then.
No contact since. I'm not upset and I wasn't really at the time - other than the fact the kids had to see him in that state and what could have been a pleasant family meal went south. I actually feel a lot of pity for him. I think he'd really really like to repair things with me, just as I thought I wanted to - but who he is right now I don't want, and I don't think he's capable of being someone that could have a relationship with someone healthy. He doesn't seem to enjoy normal family life (the normal noise and mess of kids on a Friday after school evening was clearly more than he could cope with) and if I'm honest, I didn't enjoy his company at all. He helped in the house - cooking and cleaning and hung a wash load out for me - and he was mainly civil until he started drinking - but it was like having a vaguely unpleasant stranger in the house. Not exactly a guest, but a distant and slightly annoying relative who had made themselves a bit too much at home.
My emotions now are fairly steady. I feel sorry for him. Really really sorry for him. He's in a bad way and he clearly isn't well. And I'm okay. I've been in a bad way, but I am recovering and better every day, and as soon as he started with his reactivity, I thought, 'ah no, I"m not sitting here and having this again.'
Charitably, I can see that he's still so afraid of being stuck in an awful marriage - as we were - that he's hugely, hugely reactive to the tiniest thing. Perhaps he doesn't want to go to therapy, he's just offering that because he doesn't want to get divorced, and he resents me for that choice. I have no idea. What I can see is that he has no capacity for humour or generosity or curiosity. The drinking on top of whatever mental health stuff he's suffering - stress, depression, anxiety - obviously makes him unfit for any real meaningful interaction. But even beyond all that - when we were out on the walk and the practical things I wanted to address with him had been addressed - the conversation was stilted, painfully awkward. Boring. There was just nothing much there. He's not really doing anything other than working, and brooding, and playing computer games. He's exercising a bit more, which I'm glad about, but he didn't really want to talk about that either. And in the evening, he kept getting on my nerves and I kept having to train myself to think kind thoughts about him (make excuses for him, deny the reality of who he is and how I feel about him now) rather than just enjoy his company or get on with my own evening.
It was a bit of an eye-opener, and that's no bad thing.
I doubt very much that he will pursue this therapist when she comes back and offers an appointment. That's probably no bad thing either. Today I can't really think of any reason, other than attachment to a memory of a long time ago, why I'd want him.
I think my priority now is myself, GAL, detachment and the kids. I haven't thought longer term than that. If he sticks to the financial agreement he made with me, then this can stand as it is. And if he doesn't, I have recourse.
I've woken up today quite worried about H. One of the things he spoke to me about when we were out walking that upset him was the fact that a while ago I let some of my houseplants die. He said it made him sad. He sounded angry. I tried to validate and understand, but how it felt was just one of a long list of minor and fairly irrational criticisms he has of me. Some of his criticisms have been warranted, and when I've taken action to correct them (my 180s) he's just moved the criticism to some other area of my life or personality or behaviour. That makes me think the problem is in him and in his heart and attitude and only partly to do with me and my actions.
I get he's spinning and just trying to find reasons for the fact that he doesn't like living with me and wishes he did. His answer to that seems to be that I change, but the bar is set so impossibly high it feels he'd only be happy with a silent, ever smiling, perfectly absent yet domestically flawless robot. The single thing I am asking for as a bottom line condition for going to MC is that he stops the verbal abuse, and he can't manage that, but also wants me to resurrect a couple of dead spider plants... he also, when we were walking, talked about booking a family holiday for the summer. I didn't agree to that, or disagree, but I remember thinking at the time that it was a terrible idea, and not what I wanted, and that I'd been imagining somewhere sunny with me and the two kids and him being there would just spoil it. It's also crazy that he seems to want those things when he's so unbelievably unhappy with who I am as a person, even when I'm just minding my own business and getting on with things. It's more crazy behaviour. I also know if I said, 'okay, yes, let's book the holiday - where shall we go?' that he'd say I was pressuring him and chasing him and annoying him - he is so incapable of interacting honestly and healthily.
I get we're all irrational when we're emotional - but generally I calm down after a while and can say, 'whew, that was an over-reaction,' but he seems to genuinely believe that stuff about the houseplants. It wasn't all he said, but it struck me at the time as the justifications of someone flailing and struggling to find new things to blame me for, and also as totally irrational. The way he over-reacted last night was also really something. I didn't feel unsafe and he wasn't as bad as I've seen him, but it was unacceptable and he shows little sign of being able to control his angry reactions to very basic and minor things. I don't want to R with him anymore but I am deeply concerned about his mental state.
I'd hoped that some time off would ease his mind a bit, but the reactivity and craziness is there under the surface. I am reacting to it differently - more detached - and it doesn't panic or upset me any more. I felt very calm in telling him I'd call him a taxi, and very relieved when he left. I am concerned for his sake, and the children's. I accept I can't fix him, can't control him, can't even really influence him - and I don't want to - but the worry is there all the same. I remember my own PND and how paranoid and reactive and crazy I got when it was really bad, and how little insight I had into what was going on with me. It was like my brain was broken - and I recognise that in him now, even though he doesn't himself.
It's Father's Day. He's going to pick up Youngest and take him to see his own Father. The kids have made him some cards which was nice, so I will make sure he gets those but I don't plan to do anything else for him or with him. I'm seeing a friend today for brunch and a walk, and plan to catch up on a bit of work this afternoon while the kids are out and busy.
Oh - and Dilly, you asked if Eldest has time with H. Well, no is the answer. Eldest is very angry at H and that comes out in some pretty unacceptable behaviour sometimes. I've been addressing that with him. When H used to come over to see Youngest in the house, Eldest would often make remarks like, 'I'm so glad Mum kicked you out,' and H would really react to this - understandably enough. I'm very very firm that this isn't acceptable, and I've backed that up by making time to really listen to Eldest and understand his point of view. It's a two pronged thing - validating the feelings and putting boundaries around the behaviour. Eldest feels very left out and hurt and sad - he's asked H to go on walks with him a couple of times, and H makes excuses not to go. I can see why H wouldn't want to spend time with someone who is pretty vile to him at times, but on the other hand, Eldest is the son and not the parent, and has been hurt and disappointed. When Eldest does make these kind of remarks to H, despite our agreements, H tends to respond with sarcasm and nastiness (Eldest is seeing a counsellor, and H knows about this and has, on two occasions, mocked him for it). Eldest's feeling is that why should he stop behaviour that H is 'allowed' to do. And I get that. If I keep out of it and leave them to it, then H is angry with me and feels unsupported. I've tried to back H up by attempting to include him in the parenting plan, but he isn't able to stick with it and instead of responding with assertiveness, he'll have a tantrum. Eldest has no respect at all for him and I can see why. And he still tries to offer the olive branch and seek his approval and attention sometimes, and is deeply hurt that all his love and energy is being poured into Youngest in front of him, and i can get that. It's a mess and other than what I'm currently doing, it isn't possible for me to repair it.
I get he's spinning and just trying to find reasons for the fact that he doesn't like living with me and wishes he did. His answer to that seems to be that I change, but the bar is set so impossibly high it feels he'd only be happy with a silent, ever smiling, perfectly absent yet domestically flawless robot.
It's not a bar, it's a moving target. At this point he is unable to be happy with anyone/anything. Remember, it's where HE is. Not you.
Several months in I had to tell H that while I was very sorry that he was upset and hurting, I could no longer listen to the laundry list of his complaints about me unless he was willing and able to work together to find solutions to OUR problems. AnotherStander had a lot of insight into responding to these 'lists of faults'. Validate, but do not take credit for their emotions or reactions. I decided to glean from H what I knew to be true and work on those areas that I needed to change no matter who I was in relationship with, and let any petty criticisms roll off my back.
I know you are worried about him. I'm worried about mine, also. But remember, we didn't break them, we can't fix them.
In my sitch, I know for a fact that how much he is drinking is scary and will lead to bad things, but he can't hear that from me. I am enemy #1. I took a big gulp of the smoothie and just listened. As soon as I accepted that and stopped commenting on anything, I saw that he started telling me that he was drinking too much. Ive noticed that the less I 'notice' about him and focus on my stuff, the more he wants to share with me his struggles.
Re: your eldest. Might be time for counseling. Something I tell my S17 is that I understand that he is angry with H but S is in charge of his responses and I want him to have healthy coping skills, and then I try to model that. I'm also quite honest about my feelings, so he can feel less alone in his. Priority in that area is not getting involved in their relationship (My ic reminded me that my relationship with S is mine and H's relationship with S is theirs) but just listen and validate S.
Reality check: would you ever in a million years think that it is wise to draw a parallel between someone's ability to keep a houseplant alive and their relational aptitude? Of course not. Try not to get too close to that tornado.
ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19
8/17-BD IHS: 1/17-2/19 D FILED (ME): 7/19 D FINAL: 10/20 M23 T25 OW CONFIRMED: 01/21
Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
97Hope - you're right. I feel very calm today. The houseplant comment did a lot to help me move forward in detaching.
I think he's finally run out of complaints about the past - or at least he knows my response will be 'You have many reasons to be angry. I'd like to work together on a relationship that makes both of us feel happy and if you don't want that, I won't stand in your way,' so he doesn't really get the 'fix' of me being upset and eager to placate him anymore. So now he brings in things about the present. Houseplants! It's laughable. I think in the time he was here he complained that the leather on the sofa felt a bit rough and dry, that the garden wasn't tidy enough, that I'd not washed the tomatoes well enough, that the kids were being too noisy, that Eldest wasn't sharing nicely enough, that I shouldn't have asked the children if they wanted to play a card game with me after the meal, that I shouldn't have commented on something he was watching on the television, that I shouldn't ask him not to be sarcastic with me, but just bite my lip and bear it, that I had let some houseplants die, that the bin for garden refuse was too full, etc etc. I mainly just 'hmm' or validate and if it is something I agree needs doing, quietly do it, and if not, just let it pass. Then his complaints are that I am not taking his wants and needs seriously enough. When I try to consider his wants and needs - ie - he was moaning about the garden, so I bought some new lawn seed and fertiliser - he will respond with a lot of contempt and sarcasm - eye rolling and catty remarks. There's no comforting or pleasing him, so I am moving towards just not bothering. Who he is right now made him incredibly boring and tiresome to be around on Friday, and that was before he started drunkenly ranting about me using his name in the wrong tone of voice and everything he imagined was going on in my head in that moment. He's also very paranoid that I talk about him to others (I have a couple of friends he doesn't know who I do talk about the situation with, but never to mutual friends or acquaintances) and seems to hold me responsible for whatever he imagines is happening there. Nothing I can or feel inclined to do about that, nor some dead houseplants.
Eldest is in counselling and it's really helping. I set boundaries around disrespectful talk and behaviour, and there are consistent consequences for it. We're communicating much better, and most of our time together is really lovely - though he's especially difficult when H is around. Obviously H doesn't see the lovely side of him anymore, and isn't capable of looking at himself and wondering why that might be. Eldest's perspective is that it isn't fair I hold him to a higher standard than I hold H to. He has an excellent point, except I'm his parent and I'm not my H's parent, or even my H's wife right now. That's been a very hard concept for me to get my head around, so it is so wonder that a teenager struggles with it. Eldest has also seen me respond to H's delightful nature in very unhealthy ways - I take ownership of that - and it's going to take a lot of consistent 180ing and him witnessing that before I am past the point where he might think I should practice what I preach.
