I like that about not picking up other people's problems, I suppose that's what validation is about. It's about accepting and understanding someone else's feelings without getting dragged into the middle of it. That does sound painful seeing flashes of the old him occasionally, because it must get your hopes up a bit maybe?
I think it used to. I don't think he's got a masterplan and is deliberately giving me breadcrumbs or stringing me along - though I've let that happen. I think he's genuinely in a state, would like to repair things and hasn't done the individual work to understand why he does the things he does. Now and again there's a half-apology, or an improvement in the way he communicates with me, or some gesture of practical help (which is actually no more than the father of my children should be offering) but they're not consistent. I think I'm moving - very unevenly and slowly - to accepting that those little flashes and moments of connection or kindness or insight or taking of responsibility that I see in him are nowhere near enough. I want and deserve better than that.
Things continue peacefully today. He was in touch to moan more about his life, and the birthday party. Apparently it was hard work having Youngest at the weekend and he didn't get a moment to himself, and Youngest was difficult over homework. I think in the last six months we've been living apart he's had Youngest at his house about 10-15 times - and sends him back with his dirty laundry. So my heart is not quite aching for him. Today's moan was there's just too much to do and he's so stressed about it al (he's got about three weeks off work, and no household to run). I validated. He was talking about sorting out the garden at my house (little bit of a jungle right now) sending invites, booking bouncy castle, etc. I told him I'd taken care of it all and have made an arrangement with a few friends to come and help me with lawn and hedges next weekend. No need for him to come to the house. He sounded surprised. I don't know what he expects - he was given his chance to collaborate with me peacefully and instead wanted an argument, so I backed away and sorted it out on my own. He wasn't hostile - he just sounded quite lost and sad, and I felt pity for him, but not enough to dive in and sort it out for him or reassure him. I don't have any intention of excluding him from his children's lives, but if he can't BE a husband, he doesn't get a wife. If he can't peacefully co-parent with me, then we can parallel parent and he's free to do whatever he thinks is best regarding birthdays and such in his own time. I think the lack of defensiveness on my part, followed by the quiet taking of action, is putting him into a spin. I need to get on with my summer more than I need to argue or placate him.
Brilliant. And what a fantastic title! I'm glad that you're doing this, but not out of anger or as a bid to get him back, just recognising he's not capable of stepping up right now. I would actually quite like to punch him for the whingeing about having 3 weeks off and being stressed. If he keeps behaving like a petulant child he might find that's really not attractive at all and you'll not want him back anyway...
What I wouldn't give for three weeks off work and nothing to do !!!
There was a man who contacted me on OLD. He is 50 and a personal trainer. He was on hols in Spain and was due back soon. We spoke about gyms and living in London. Then it turned sour. He was so full of negativity. I stopped responding after back and forths. That negativity is infectious if you let it be. Validate but don't own it. "Yes, people in London can be abrupt but once they know you can be warm and caring. You just have to take the time".
Of course you should include him in activities with his children. Our ex au pair (one that we liked) is coming to stay with us for two weeks at the end of the month. I did not ask permission to have her stay. We have a spare room, the children and I love her, and it is my house. I plan on having a BBQ for her and some friends but the only day available is a day that he has the children. So I asked if it would be OK to have the children, and then said he was welcome to come too. I also asked his mum. I invited my friends not his (partly because he has told me NOT to contact his friends). I will buy all the food, book the bouncy castle, send out the invites (thank god for WhatsApp) and he can come or not. I will spend the morning preparing the food and tidying the house. He will turn up, run the BBQ and take all the credit. It would have driven me nuts a year ago, having to be the one to do everything, but now, I am OK with it.
You are doing wonderfully Alison. Just be careful that taking back your life is not trodding all over his. Do it for you. Not because you want to get a rise out of him.
Thanks, Fly. Yes - he's relentlessly negative and when we were living together the way I responded to that (by taking it personally and trying to either fix his issues or convince him to look at them a different way) made both of us miserable. Non defensiveness and validating is really helping me here. I'm not sure it affects him one way or the other, but it certainly allows me to have a conversation with him without feeling like I'm being pulled into a black hole.
I don't want to tread on his life or get a rise out of him. My preference would be that he'd collaborate with me. But if he'd rather use our interactions to criticise me and bring up R stuff in order to blame me for it, I'm going to end those conversations and carry on with my life on my own. I won't exclude him from anything - he'll just be a guest, if he comes, rather than a co-host, because he wasn't offering to help, only to criticise, and I don't participate in that any more.
I don't feel sad today. I regret that he isn't offering what I want, but I feel it is more sane to accept the reality of that and go around it and do what I want, rather than hang about waiting at an empty cupboard, or blame the cupboard and cry about it being empty.
An interesting update. H came to see me yesterday during the day while the kids were at school. He was very nervy, but spoke very respectfully and decently. I could see he was making an effort. We talked for a while - again, about therapy and also about the mortgage. He's still being quite evasive about what he wants - he doesn't want me to buy him out, but he's not giving me a figure for how much he wants to contribute to the mortgage either. I said he's not having it both ways, it's one or the other and I want to know which this week. He was okay with that.
I said that it didn't feel that we were both in places where we had a willingness to listen to each other without being defensive and be open to making changes in ourselves for the good of the marriage, and if that was true, therapy would feel like a pointless exercise to me. He assured me that he was. I wanted to ask him to give me an example, but I didn't. I said I wanted to listen to him and I wanted to take responsibility, but the way he communicated was really off-putting and I didn't want to hear any more of the angry, belittling remarks, the unconstructive criticism and nitpicking, the sarcasm. That it wasn't constructive to either getting things repaired, or moving things towards a peaceful D. And he accepted that.
He was talking again (this has been a regular refrain) about how things will be in the summer, and I said, 'well, it is summer. It's time, really, isn't it?' by which I meant to start actually repairing things, or for him to be truthful about not wanting to or not being able to repair things, and let me make my own decision as to what I do in response to that. He nodded. It was all very quiet and civil.
In the end we agreed to meet on Friday for a short walk and talk about it a bit more. I said I wanted to hear what he had to say - the no holds barred truth with no evasions or game playing - and that I could commit to listening to that carefully if he could offer the same to me. I said I wasn't going to give him hysteria and ultimatums, but I was keen to move forward with my life one way or another and it felt like time for me to start doing that. And that's how we left it.
So I guess we will leave each other alone to mull things over for a few days. The kids came back from school while he was here and he was very proactive with Youngest - doing homework - and he and Eldest had a friendly nice conversation. Eldest was a bit rude with him at one point and I leapt in to challenge that. Perhaps I should have let H do it himself, but I'm not sure he has the confidence to just yet and Eldest did need pulling up on his attitude. He's still picking Youngest up tonight and having him at his own house - I'm sticking to that.
Yes, I agree. He seems to come to this place now and again, and I open up a bit, and then I either trigger him, or he triggers himself, and becomes unbearable again. When we meet on Friday I am going to take my own car and travel separately so I can leave if he becomes unpleasant. I feel quite certain about this. I am also quite certain that I'm not going to therapy until or unless he's able to communicate like an adult and take some responsibility for himself, and that if therapy becomes another means by which he gets to speak abusively towards me, I will walk out. I am trying to be open to decent behaviour, while blocking unacceptable behaviour.
It hasn't escaped me that this may just be delaying tactics and there's been no heartfelt change. Or that therapy will just demonstrate to me that he has nothing to offer a marriage and I'm correct in walking away. Either way, I will find that out and act accordingly. I think he's picked up on that and whether this is a genuine attempt on his part to respond differently or just another attempt to 'hook' me back into the misery of a limbo that suited him and did not suit me remains to be seen. I'll have my wits about me.
Alison, you've given him every opportunity and I admire and respect you for that. But I am with Ginger on this, you're locked in a repeating pattern. He treats you like crap, you pull back, he starts reaching out and offering the olive branch, you crack open the door and he treats you like crap again, repeat. If this talk Friday goes the least bit sideways then I hope you will consider telling him you need some period of time away from him with zero R discussions of any kind like Ginger said. I would suggest at least 6 months. You both go your separate ways and have as little to do with each other as possible. Maybe if he realizes he really has lost you then he will consider actually changing his abusive ways, but until then I don't think he will.
I think that's a good idea and something I was considering myself. Something need to change, and I have the power to change that. I am going to hear him out on Friday - partly because he did speak to me very respectfully yesterday, and partly because, I think, me giving him an ultimatum a couple of weeks ago really upset and angered him (and was a boneheaded move on my part) and we're still dealing with the hangover of that. The ultimatum was the wrong way of going about it, but the spirit behind it - I am done with your cake-eating, poop or get off the pot - is one that I stand by and want to put into action by healthier means. I will listen on Friday, and then we will either be going to therapy or I will be separating finances and going completely dark. He knows that full well. Whether he believes it or not is another issue, but I believe it.
Alison: you sound like you've reached a turning point. As you say, it's summer. Time for him to step up to his words and follow through with action. He might not be able to give you the truth though, he might not even know it himself. I think a walk is a good idea though, it's much easier to say hard things when side by side.
