[quote=Steve85]I can't actively listen if I don't give a crap about what she says.
I disagree with this.
I was at the store yesterday buying some things. The cashier was nice enough. Told me about wanting to get off work and enjoy Memorial Day. How he wanted to go to the parade that morning as he hasn't been able to go in several years. I actively listened. Empathized. Even validated.
But I didn't really give a crap.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
[quote=Steve85]I can't actively listen if I don't give a crap about what she says.
I disagree with this.
I was at the store yesterday buying some things. The cashier was nice enough. Told me about wanting to get off work and enjoy Memorial Day. How he wanted to go to the parade that morning as he hasn't been able to go in several years. I actively listened. Empathized. Even validated.
But I didn't really give a crap.
Fair point Steve. I will take this on board and think about how to implement it. Its a change in my mentality and might take a bit to figure out the how part for me as a person.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
Not that I'm experienced here, but I think that this could be chalked up to habit. Learning to listen and validate when you don't care is just a social growth opportunity.
Like how I believe love is a verb and you can create it through actions. You can create caring about others by doing it.
May: discover PA April: MC pending IC, back in MBR, discover EA March: different bedrooms, IC Jan 19: ILYBINILWY
She blocked me on FB, I will tell her the pics are available there.
You need to change your thought process. You do not need to tell her. You shouldn't tell her.
Co-parenting conversations only. And these should be about "Big" parenting decisions. Not minor ones. You parent your way at your house. She parents her way at her house.
Let her go. Set her free.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I asked W to discuss an issue with S11. She agreed to discuss it with me. When I arrived her parents car was in the driveway. This made me nervous, I proceeded anyway. We talked about the issue my son. It went ok.
She decided to start some R talk once we were done with the kid discussion. I didn’t ask questions, just listened and validated her feelings. There was less blame and finger pointing so that was good. She talked for about an hour. Dinner was ready, so it was time for me to go. She kept asking me if I had something I wanted to say. I simply said I’m here to listen. Before I left she said that when she is ready to hear my feelings she will let me know. I’m good with that.
I had never listened that intently to her before. Eye contact, repeating portions of what she said, etc. At one point she asked why I was looking at her like I would have a couple years ago. I had read that one can reduce defensiveness by remembering a good time from the past during a tough discussion. So that’s what I did.
I was happy with how I handled it. No arguing, just an hour of validation.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
That is very impressive. Being on the receiving end of an R talk is the hardest thing to deal with, I've found. To listen and validate for an hour is amazing. Well done. Taking notes here, I like the bit about reducing defensiveness, something I struggle with internally even though I've got it sorted externally. Mad DBing skills there LB!
That is hugely impressive. I remember listening to H rant for an hour or so earlier on in our situation - about his anger and blame and resentment. I think at the time I thought I was validating his feelings (and I believe I did make some good validating statements) but I also was told here - which I accept - I was enabling his verbal abuse. I still struggle with where to draw the line when it comes to listening to feelings I find challenging or perceptions of events that don't agree with and out and out verbal abuse, but I am getting better at it. I think it's fine to have a boundary of how MUCH validating you will do in any one session. If an hour is fine for you - great - but perhaps thinking of a way to get out of a conversation like that when you've had enough would also be useful (I wish I'd have been able to perfect this). You're not a bottomless bit of patience and your needs are important too. It's also very hard to listen to someone's feelings when they have little or no interest in or respect of yours. I understand that validation might be a one way street for a good while in many of our situations, but it's also been useful for me to think about how much validation I am willing to 'spend' without getting any back...
That is very impressive. Being on the receiving end of an R talk is the hardest thing to deal with, I've found. To listen and validate for an hour is amazing. Well done. Taking notes here, I like the bit about reducing defensiveness, something I struggle with internally even though I've got it sorted externally. Mad DBing skills there LB!
It is tough. Thanks for the positive feedback.
I’ve committed in my head to giving this the best shot I can. I’ve dropped my anger for the most part, of don’t ruminate on the events of the past, and I’m working to see the good side of her.
She can still leave. I will be ok with that. I won’t be ok with me not trying. I’m getting better at these skills for me, not for her. The difference is I’ve decided to use them instead of a relatively cold indifference. So we will see how it plays out.
I’m open to working on this, I will continue to show that but won’t be saying that to her anytime soon. We have to be able to talk before any of that could start to happen. So for now I listen like I’ve never done before.
Non defensive listening. Google it. Look for the article by Gottman. It’s good stuff, at least for me.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
That is hugely impressive. I remember listening to H rant for an hour or so earlier on in our situation - about his anger and blame and resentment. I think at the time I thought I was validating his feelings (and I believe I did make some good validating statements) but I also was told here - which I accept - I was enabling his verbal abuse. I still struggle with where to draw the line when it comes to listening to feelings I find challenging or perceptions of events that don't agree with and out and out verbal abuse, but I am getting better at it. I think it's fine to have a boundary of how MUCH validating you will do in any one session. If an hour is fine for you - great - but perhaps thinking of a way to get out of a conversation like that when you've had enough would also be useful (I wish I'd have been able to perfect this). You're not a bottomless bit of patience and your needs are important too. It's also very hard to listen to someone's feelings when they have little or no interest in or respect of yours. I understand that validation might be a one way street for a good while in many of our situations, but it's also been useful for me to think about how much validation I am willing to 'spend' without getting any back...
Yes I totally get that Alison. Where to draw the line. My W is full of blame, fault, and anger. All pointed at me. She didn’t do that for the most part this time, so I kept listening. I had multiple outs, I was near my vehicle, I could have ended the conversation and got in and left at any time.
An hour was a long time for me. It won’t be that way every time. It worked for this time. I had already set a boundary that any disrespectful tone or statements will result in me ending the conversation a few days prior. She didn’t test my resolve on this day. She will and I will have to end it and leave. I’m prepared for that.
I’m getting better at this too. The concept of validating and not agreeing is a tough one. Steve hit it on the head earlier in this thread. You don’t have to give a crap about what they said to validate. You are validating their feeling not their actions, thoughts, or words.
This was a different conversation than in the past for us. This was the first time I didn’t leave upset and angry. It had very little to do with what she said, it had everything to do with how I handled it. Control myself and my reactions. I can end it at anytime if she decides to become vile and spew vitriol at me. So can you.
AS put it well for me a bit earlier. Validation is a one way street. Most people don’t know how to do it. If you only give validation expecting to receive it back I don’t think it will work. My W has no concept of validation. She is the best invalidater I know. Recognizing that behavior from her and not trying to get her to validate my statements is a it step for me. Previously I would have tried to get her to understand by repeating myself, stating in a different manner, using different words; all looking for the validation of my feeling. I’ve stopped looking for validation, instead choosing to validate others as a way to improve myself. It’s only been a few short days since I set my mind to this, there will be setbacks, but I can see progress within myself and in my relationships with others.
Me40; W38; S12; D9 BD11/19/2018 D filed 12/20/18 D Final 7/2020 Being the best example I know how for my kids to see.
This is such a great conversation right here. Going to set myself the challenge of validating someone every day now! Is it wrong that I'm almost hoping for an R talk once I've got my skills honed a bit more?
