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NO fear Oops, NO fear.

Stand for yourself. Respect yourself.

Don´t feed on breadcrums for birds.

Face reality. Then you´ll start moving forward and doing the real DBing.

It´s a step you have to take man.

Be strong there!


WW H(me): 53
W: 48
T: 27 M: 22
S: 18
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Oops,

I know the feeling. I bought in on the fantasy of what I thought M and love was. But my fantasy and what's being sold by Disney, wasn't true and never have been. Love is rough, tough and full of pain and great times. We are sold this narrative by entertainment and Disney, but the reality is love is being vulnerable and taking risk. When we are vulnerable and we take risk in being committed to another person, we open ourselves up to disappointment and pain. There's pain on both sides of a relationship. (I was holding my wife to be a perfect human being, I was holding her to never fail or make a mistake and every time she did, I would show my disappointment. She hated being treated that way. I thought I found the perfect W. She was always the person that people would say she was so perfect. She hated being told that she was perfect. She wanted to be able to fail around me and I understand she wasn't perfect, not only did she want me to understand, she wanted me to accept she wasn't perfect, the one person she wanted to truly be herself around was me, but I would hold her up on this pedal-stool.) Now I just love her for her and not for the person I want her to be.

But once we accept the true reality of what love is, we can grow and work on future healthy relationships.

Now on to a healthy relationship. You and your W can't begin the healing process or begin to grow until you and her have a conversation about her infidelity. You holding on to that information does nothing but keep the pain closed off.

You are lying to your WW right now. You are being deceitful. I know you might not see it that way, but you are hiding the fact that you know what she has done wrong and your are pretending that everything is ok. It's hard for me to say this, but that's not fair to your WW.

You are not living in your reality. Marriages are hard, relationships are hard. But when we take the right approaches, we can have fulfilling, loving relationship. When we accept the reality of our situations we can grow. Let go of the fantasies and begin the healing process and grow.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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She asked if I wanted her to move out, I told her no but I wouldn't stop her. She said she wanted to stay, wanted the marriage. I agreed and asked if she'd like to sleep in the spare bedroom in turn, she said no she doesn't want that either. She said she didn't want to make any big decisions until shes on medication, and that she didn't want to leave me with the burden of managing the house alone. I told her she has to do what she has to do.


So..........was anything resolved or accomplished by having this talk? Is she saying she wants to keep the MR as is?

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I hate that I have to ride the middle ground of being a strong man that still gives her some cake right now.


Well Oops, I think you are the one who makes the decision to ride the middle ground....or get on a higher level. Frankly, I think you have a problem with the part of being a strong man. Maybe we are speaking different languages, but how do you see being a strong man feeds her cake? She's going to benefit by legally being M to you, whether she has sex or not. She's going to benefit by living in the home with you. She clearly said she didn't want to manage it alone. If you feel you want to wait it out and see if the M will survive, then that's your decision. If you want to keep evidence hushed, that is up to you, also. However, don't complain about riding the middle ground of being a strong man (not exactly sure how you define that). It may be taking all the emotional strength you have at the moment, IDK. Maybe your definition of a strong man is nothing close to your W's definition.

I am speaking as a woman and a wife when I say that we women who love our H's can handle the times he faces tragedy or something (other than his W) that causes his emotions to surface. We don't see that as "weakness". We see that as human, and we can be there by his side to offer compassion, support, and loving tenderness. If our H sheds tears at the bedside of a dying parent (for example).....we don't consider it weakness. What grates against the W is when her H continues to display a lack of emotional strength in his role as the man in the marriage/family. When he gets lazy, or whines about everything being unfair, or doesn't want to get a real job to provide for his family, or he won't stand up to a W who bullies him, or he tries to find a way to get out of fulfilling his responsibilities as the H and/or father. Things along those lines are what women define as weakness in a man. Maybe a better word for some guys would just be "sorry". Everyone knows at least one of these guys, right? Anyway, when this goes on & on and he doesn't shows signs of trying to change, improve or help himself to rise above it, and appears to wallow in in self pity.........and depends on his W to be the stronger spouse, so he can be the weaker.......then, yes, we see him as weak. That's the picture he paints of himself. That's what the W sees.

Now, if he has been going through something mentally or physically, most women I know IRL would step up to the plate. He can't help physical illness, and many women can handle her H's depression for quite a while, before it takes a toll on their MR. But I'm not talking about mental or physical strength/weakness here, and I think you know what I mean. I don't think the younger generation of women will put up with a weak H very long, b/c she isn't as dependent on him to provide, as in previous generations. Women are "empowered" these days .......but they lack a lot of what our older generation had. (Another subject at a later time.) To be brutally honest, I think a lot of women would tell a H who consistently displayed signs of weakness......"He doesn't want a wife, he wants a mother". A wife wants her H to be stronger than she is.....okay? If you guys are M to a strong woman, then you've got to be stronger than she is.......or have a less than satisfying MR.

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what's hard for me at this stage is mourning the death of an ideal. I think I've realized that a woman can never love me unconditionally, or the way I want to love and be loved. I will never be allowed to be my broken, weak self around someone.


You aren't mourning for the girl you M, but the idea you won't be allowed to be your broken, weak self around someone........as in with any other woman. Well, you probably need to mourn that idea, alright, b/c you aren't going to be very attractive if you show that side of yourself very quickly into a male-female R. I suppose there are still women out there that would play the game, just to get M, but after the wedding and the real persons reveal themselves.........look out.

****************************************************

I just want to go back to something you said in the talk with your W, and maybe enlighten or shock & disgust H's everywhere.

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I told her I didn't disagree, but that I meant my wedding vows and had never been interested in marriage before her, and the whole point of marriage and the vows is that we admit we're flawed and that we do. not. quit.


Two things I want to touch on, b/c I see LBH's bring up the subject of the wedding vows quite often on the board. First of all, please don't shoot me for getting very real about this. As a former WW, I have a problem with H's pitching it to their WW while they are having a R talk. It doesn't impress her how serious he meant his wedding vows. It doesn't gain him security in the M, if his fidelity is not, and has not, been the problem! If she wants out of the M, or plays the game of "not knowing how she feels" and she is guilty of an A, then she doesn't care how he views his vows. Frankly, if she's not remorseful at the time of the conversation, she doesn't care how he views the vows SHE made. From her viewpoint, it sounds as if he wants to guilt her with that little punchline. As if to say, "Unlike you, I meant my wedding vows". When the H throws the punch about taking his vows seriously........it kind of makes him sound a bit self-righteous. And she hates it. Remember, he's not dealing with a logical thinking woman, and it's only going to add to the resentment she holds. So, that's number one.

The second thing is to tell you that I don't recall thinking about my actual wedding vows at any point during the A. When I came to board, someone brought it up, of course. Did I actually mean my wedding vows when I said them? Of course, I did. Maybe I was too young & immature and believed in the fairy tale version, but never in a million years did I dream I would get to the state of being a WW, and cheat on my H. I was in love when I said those vows. Of course I meant it. I promised to love, honor, and even....obey my H (that last word is usually left out by brides today). I doubt I've made over a handful of promises my entire life, b/c I just don't promise things that I am not 100% positive I can deliver. Yes, I took it seriously. Did I fail? Yes! Did I recover? Yes! Did I need anyone to remind me I had broken my vows? Nope! Some of you may be thinking, "You obviously needed reminding". No, reminding a WW of vows do not bring forth productive feelings when she's acting out in such rebellious behavior. Some H's think if they say something like this, she'll smack her forehead, and make a complete 180, b/c she "forgot" her vows. It's not like she actually lost her memory, but like most things about the M, she has developed a calloused heart ......and has rewritten history.

So, take this FWIW, guys. If your W has broken her vows, it doesn't mean she wasn't serious when she said them. (There are some exceptions, of course.) If your M reconciles, and she works through her wayward mindset and what she did to dishonor her H......then there is a lot of hope the MR will be successful. It doesn't mean she'll break her vows ever again. (There are some exceptions, of course.) frown


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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In addition to Sandi's wise counsel I'll just add that most WAW's feel their husband has not loved, honored and cherished them for quite some time anyway. So in their eyes, their husband is the one that broke their vows FIRST. So she very likely sees what she is doing as a REACTION to what you did.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
In addition to Sandi's wise counsel I'll just add that most WAW's feel their husband has not loved, honored and cherished them for quite some time anyway. So in their eyes, their husband is the one that broke their vows FIRST. So she very likely sees what she is doing as a REACTION to what you did.


Yep. Some of us even hear something like that come out of our wive's mouths.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Oops, are you still with us?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
In addition to Sandi's wise counsel I'll just add that most WAW's feel their husband has not loved, honored and cherished them for quite some time anyway. So in their eyes, their husband is the one that broke their vows FIRST. So she very likely sees what she is doing as a REACTION to what you did.


Yep. Some of us even hear something like that come out of our wive's mouths.


^^^^ I have been told this verbatim by WAW that they are just reacting "to what we did" I didn't know that having a calm, civil, and logical argument in disagreement to someone's perception and feelings equated to "emotional abuse" and being "talked down to." Granted there were times I did raise my voice. I can see that past encounters before things went south, should have just validated W's feelings the best I could. I can now see after all I learned here how not validating can leave someone feeling unheard, and ignored. Guess that is why we learn to validate huh?

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Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
In addition to Sandi's wise counsel I'll just add that most WAW's feel their husband has not loved, honored and cherished them for quite some time anyway. So in their eyes, their husband is the one that broke their vows FIRST. So she very likely sees what she is doing as a REACTION to what you did.


Yep. Some of us even hear something like that come out of our wive's mouths.


Ah yes the old "chicken and the egg" issue.

My W actually said the I ended the R years ago with my withdrawn ahole-ish behavior. Now I say I was withdrawn but also always ready for a fight because of her constant harsh criticism and snide remarks. But W says she only harshly attacked me because she was trying to get her message across and prior softer attempts did not work. The I say.......blah blah and so on.


H: 55 W:43
M: 8 T:12
S(11) D(8)
BD: 10/18 (ILYBINILWY)
IHS: 1/19
Physical Separation: 8/19
D FINAL: 6/21
W filed D: 4/19
Physical Separation 8/19
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I got the evidence I needed and then some, lawyered up, told her I knew, and she's out of there and staying with a friend until she moves into her place later this week. She wants to reconcile. She came clean on all of it (at least by the measure of her giving the worst answers to what I asked) and seems remorseful. I'm going to take my time and think and see what she does while she lives somewhere else.

I don't trust her at all but she's putting on the right act at least. For me to want to be with her again she will have to change as a person.

Last edited by oops13; 06/25/19 07:41 PM.

May: discover PA
April: MC pending IC, back in MBR, discover EA
March: different bedrooms, IC
Jan 19: ILYBINILWY
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Also, sorry for disappearing, I was so deep into investigation mode that I just stepped away for a while.


May: discover PA
April: MC pending IC, back in MBR, discover EA
March: different bedrooms, IC
Jan 19: ILYBINILWY
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