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#2850978 05/29/19 09:21 PM
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Toto11 Offline OP
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Hi all! So I’m not sure if this is where to post but il give it a go! I’ve been reading through your threads since last year and although it’s helped hugely, I’m a bit stuck!
Maybe first some background will help...il try keep it short crazy My H and I have been married 12 years, together 14. After a miscarriage, prem birth of twins, an unplanned pregnancy (4th child) and death of a loved one, I became very unwell and was eventually after extreme depression and manic episodes, diagnosed bipolar. Navigating my way through this tough time I basically abandoned all my H’s needs (hindsight!) and focused on myself. A close friends husband became my lifeline as he had experienced depression too. This was an EA that resulted in a one time PA.

I told my H, devastated of course and said it was over. This was 5 years ago. We stayed living together and tried to work though it but I very quickly got the ILYBNILWY. We sort of limped through living together hoping the feelings would come back. Eventually last year his mood took a turn for the worse, very distant, angry and I suspected EA/PA.

Usual hiding phone/out a lot more/mood swings etc...he suddenly decided to move out. I discovered that it was an EA while he was still here and then there was a one night PA before OW said she’d got what she wanted..he was very definitely used and it was over before if found out . I found out by going through his phone. Bad I know, but I just knew and he’d made me feel like I was going crazy.

So now we don’t live together but things seemed to be getting better (I believe he was depressed and hearing the “you’ve tried your best, you deserve to be happy” speechfrom OW was maybe why he moved out). I was punished for years after my A, particularly starved of any affection When I found out about his, although I was upset, I understood an A was a symptom of an unhappy marriage and asked him simply that I wanted us to learn from it if we got back together. I’ve been actively DB’ing as best I can and it drew him back, dates/affectionate and he even said he was feeling some potential new feelings, however it’s back to old patterns again.

We don’t fight, we have had a lot of very difficult honest conversations about owning our mistakes and that we want to move forward. He still says ILYBNILWY, however he wants it to work he just doesn’t know how to make his feelings come back. I understand I can’t fix that. I guess I’m here to ask, is 5 years waiting for his feelings to change to long? Am I a long term plan B? Should I be DB’ing or piecing? I’m not scared of divorce, neither has mentioned it. I have a large group of friends, am GAL and do 180s as best I can. I can’t figure out where I went wrong...the DB’ing after his A came out definitely worked but it’s like he says he’s into it but doesn’t seem to be working on himself as hard as you’d think someone dedicated to saving their marriage would be.

I will add I am impatient and after years of no affection was definitely very needy by the time he left. My psychiatrist works through that with me and I’m miles better. He’s brilliant with our kids, we have a schedule for his access, financial support, helps round the house etc. Now however after our last R convo (which I shouldn’t have done) we have decided to still be together but back away from each other a bit. We’ve set boundaries that basically say I’m not chasing anymore and the intimacy/spending time alone together can come from him and we won’t discuss it for a month. I’m not going to start any R convo even at the end of the month and my response will be “I will happily listen if you want to talk”. Then I can validate and shut my mouth (180 for me) and saying I’m going with the flow (again a 180). Ive been Mr Fixit in this M for years...I just have a feeling that now I’m getting pretty detached and fed up, he won’t pick up and do some work. And he hasn’t initiated spending any time together alone/affection or contact me much since our little one month agreement.

I appreciate this is possibly just him allowing me space too. I know I would be fine without him, I’d just ideally like my marriage to work because I do love him. There’s lots more little bits of detail I am happy to share if it would help...but basically I’m stuck with what else to do other than stay married but unloved or what?? P.S my bipolar mood has been well controlled for years now and I don’t believe he finds it difficult to ”manage” me, he’s very supportive.
Thanks for reading smile

Last edited by Cadet; 05/29/19 09:26 PM. Reason: carriage returns for readability
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Toto11 Offline OP
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Thank you Cadet...I must have read these a thousand times and I still feel like I pick up something new. I feel it might be helpful to add that my H is ex military and has a huge issue with opening up and being emotional. I say this because he is certainly trying to be more open about his feelings, which I believe is a positive step. I think he is possibly so “trained” to switch off emotion that he never allowed himself to feel the hurt of my A, just blocked it out. Again I realise I can’t fix this but I think it might be why he still blocks feelings, including loving ones, without even meaning to.

I have been working on abandonment issues, poor self esteem and jealousy. Jealousy was definely guilt driven from what I had done to H. Fear of being abandoned and not good enough for H contributed to him further distancing before he left. Poor self esteem was after I had my 4th baby and just didn’t feel pretty anymore. I wasnt then and am not now overweight but the less H was affectionate the more I thought it must be true. Then tadaaa, the stupidity of A fog gets you, you ignorantly justify it to yourself rather than be honest and BOOM!! My biggest lesson from that was I needed to feel beautiful about myself and it cannot be solely provided by a partner. I do feel I’ve done a lot, and will continue to improve on myself ...I can always do better. That’s for me.

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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Toto, every once in a while a sitch comes through that makes me ask this question:

What are you trying to save here? This seems like an extremely dysfunctional marriage. And without a lot of help, starting with both of you being completely committed to work on things, I don't see a lot of hope for the future. If you both come back together without dealing with everything individually first, and then as a couple, you will be doomed to a repeat.

So what are you doing to focus on you? How are your GAL activities? Are you emotionally, lovingly detached from him (IE do not react emotionally to things he says and does)? How are your 180s coming along?

Focus on all of that. And forget him for now. He'll either come around.....or he won't. But you have too much work to do on you to worry about that. As does he.


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Thank you for replying Steve. The thing is since his A came out, it really did seem to change, I just don’t understand what stops us from moving forward. H says he wants it to work, is dedicated and will try anything...but I’m absolutely friend zoned. He loves me like a family member, the mother of his kids, is attracted to me, wants sex but just isn’t in love with me. We have had more fun together since he’s moved out than we have in years and like I say the affection had come back. I think the fatal mistake I made was say “I love you” and it pretty much started from there going back to him retreating.

I’m trying to save our marriage, that’s why I’m here! We are each other’s best friends but is that all it is? How on earth must I figure that out when he says he wants us to be together but knows he isn’t in love with me? Hence me not knowing what to do.

My GAL is mostly meeting with friends when he has the kids, exercising, studying, reading and eating better (I lost a lot when he first moved out). My 180s are not interrupting and actively listening, not initiating txt conversations, not making date plans and just generally not being needy. I think I’ve lovingly detached - it doesn’t affect my day if he doesn’t contact me or if he was to say he was too busy to be involved with plans I’ve made for the kids. I literally don’t know what else to do. I love him!

Steve, when you say we both need a lot of help and need to be fully committed, what exactly do you mean by help? Do I DB, do we go to MC (he says he’d go but doesn’t believe talking to someone will change how he feels) do I have R conversations or avoid them still? We both say we are committed, but nothing seems to have a lasting change on his love for me. Do I just accept all we are is friends that co-parent? It sounds like if we are extremely dysfunctional then maybe that’s better for the kids? I just don’t know.
I massively appreciate your input and advice, I’m just very lost on what my next steps should be.

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Cadet. Thank you for your reply. I have the DB book. I read it a lot. I have several self help books that are for working on me and my self esteem also. I’m proud of how far I’ve come in terms of being much more emotionally stable...which I will add, can be particularly tricky when you have bipolar disorder. Sometimes it’s like asking a diabetic not to be diabetic.

I can only assume my next steps are patience, patience and more patience. I’m journaling to find a fine balance between DBing and piecing. Not pursuing, but being very upbeat and positive, as well as being open to accepting invites or listening/validating. Short of that, I’m simply not sure what else to try. Although I’m sure it’s not unique, it certainly feels like a pretty unique MR. Two people who won’t give up and D but also don’t seem to move forward. Maybe I should ask H why he won’t just give up and D me? But then again, I’m not supposed to bring up D if I’m DBing!! Urghhhhh! Thank you again.

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Originally Posted by Toto11
Thank you for replying Steve. The thing is since his A came out, it really did seem to change, I just don’t understand what stops us from moving forward. H says he wants it to work, is dedicated and will try anything...but I’m absolutely friend zoned. He loves me like a family member, the mother of his kids, is attracted to me, wants sex but just isn’t in love with me. We have had more fun together since he’s moved out than we have in years and like I say the affection had come back. I think the fatal mistake I made was say “I love you” and it pretty much started from there going back to him retreating.

I’m trying to save our marriage, that’s why I’m here! We are each other’s best friends but is that all it is? How on earth must I figure that out when he says he wants us to be together but knows he isn’t in love with me? Hence me not knowing what to do.

My GAL is mostly meeting with friends when he has the kids, exercising, studying, reading and eating better (I lost a lot when he first moved out). My 180s are not interrupting and actively listening, not initiating txt conversations, not making date plans and just generally not being needy. I think I’ve lovingly detached - it doesn’t affect my day if he doesn’t contact me or if he was to say he was too busy to be involved with plans I’ve made for the kids. I literally don’t know what else to do. I love him!

Steve, when you say we both need a lot of help and need to be fully committed, what exactly do you mean by help? Do I DB, do we go to MC (he says he’d go but doesn’t believe talking to someone will change how he feels) do I have R conversations or avoid them still? We both say we are committed, but nothing seems to have a lasting change on his love for me. Do I just accept all we are is friends that co-parent? It sounds like if we are extremely dysfunctional then maybe that’s better for the kids? I just don’t know.
I massively appreciate your input and advice, I’m just very lost on what my next steps should be.


First, you are having more fun than you have in years because he is getting his cake and eat it too! He gets to go where he wants with whom he wants and with them whatever he wants, and he has you on a leash to pull anytime he feels you are getting to far away. Lots of spouses in sitches like yours go into denial about all of that. When I read your posts I see a woman hanging on his every word, wanting to believe what he says to keep you attached. And you are falling for it hook, line and sinker. If he wanted to work on the R, if he wanted to make things work, if he really cared about the marriage he would be home.

Now, what I meant that you both need a lot of help, is that you are both very flawed. Like most of us are/were. So you need to concentrate on fixing you! IC. Self-help books. Support groups. Really focus on what you need to fix to be a healthy, happy, engaged partner. That you obviously weren't with the EA/PA.

Once you are working on yourself you need to put some parameters around moving to R with him. Like he needs to get into IC. That he needs to work on his flaws. That things have to change on his side before you would even entertain letting him come back. Make him do his work!!

MC would be fruitless at this point. A waste of time and money. You both need to step back from trying to make things work until you both have worked on yourselves.


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A quick question please Steve. This really hit home for me and as difficult as it will be, I want to try harder to work on me...sooo, do I tell him we can’t be together working on this? Or do I leave all R talks alone and simply get on with it. I’m asking because technically our label is “together and working on it”. Thank you so much again.

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Originally Posted by Toto11
Or do I leave all R talks alone and simply get on with it.

This ^^^^^^

Speak with Actions not Words.


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