Ok y'all confession time... I was horribly hung over yesterday. Went out Saturday night to support a friend whose H is also exhibiting GGW wayward behavior. Well to make a long story short a lightweight like myself should pay attention to how many inperial pints they drink. Ahem 4 later. Ouch. To add a little funny to the story I had several guys actively hitting on me throughout the night. One guy even went so far as to tell me he thought I was pretty. Thanks guy. He was butt hurt I didnt reciprocate. Too bad love, life is full of disappointment. I never gave the I'm interested vibe. But overall I felt better being out this time. We were able to laugh and talk to people. So yay going out and being around adults boo hangover.
I am honestly starting to think my biggest issue is overthinking. I worry how H percieves something I do or say or dont say. How is he reacting to my going dark(ish). What is going to make him come out of the fog? Is he wayward or MLC? Does it matter? Do I have months or years? Does it matter? I have made huge inroads to myself this past year. I think at this point what I fear most in detaching completely, dropping the rope, letting go and all that isnt that he might not come back it's that once I am DONE that's it for me. I'm standing and not done done. And yes I absolutely agree the affair is the worst. I was being facetious with the "just" part. Sometimes i feel as if I haven't made my feeling about it known. Then the other side of my says he darn well knows I am not ok with him having an affair. He's apologized for it in past months. But we know the difference between guilt and true remorse. Can't be too remorseful if you are still with the OW. Yes I do wish I'd gone dark when he'd moved out. Sometimes I feel like we feed each other cake.
Speaking of cake and the current "what my H bought me" thread. He has been asking what the kids and I had planned for the fourth. He was thinking of doing something with them but didnt want to get in the way of anything I had planned. I didn't really have anything but had thought of a beach day. Well he sent a two night hotel option. Well I didnt say anything but ok. Saturday night he asked if I'd thought about the beach and sent the hotel again. I bit and asked for who. He said either. I responded with an ok. Didn't say anything else as I was GALing as mentioned above. Then yesterday blah... Today he asked AGAIN. Well tbh if he wants to pay with points or whatever for the kids and me to have a small beach trip then coolbeans. Then even offered to watch the dogs. Got a little grumpy when I said I hadnt wanted to assume he'd want to drive the hour one way here a couple times a day or spend the night here. Apparently I did assume it was just negative... Really? I can't imagine. I just responded I didnt like to impose. Shoulda left it alone I'm sure. But if you don't want me putting words in your mouth don't do it to me. I chalk it up to wanting to be seen as the good guy. Thats the first even remotely negative thing he's said in months to me.
Would it be redundant to tell him no one but him is allowed at my house while he's watching the dogs? As a normal rational person I would say it was understood. But...
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
I'm glad to hear about the fun evening out with adults, the hangover isn't so good! I think we all overthink on here, trying not to overthink is really hard and not something I have got a handle on yet. I'm naturally a thinker, I like to understand how things work and am used to always analysing everything. Trying to switch that off and just accept things is difficult! Maybe stupid people are lucky, lol.
Has he been to your house alone before? Do you have an alternative dog sitter? I don't know, the paying for you to go away is a bit weird. What is his LL? Is he a controlling person? There could be LOTS of explanations for his behaviour, including some negative ones. How do we stop the mind reading?
Man, I wish I could stop overthinking! I feel like I am playing a never ending game of three dimensional chess. This is because in the back of my mind, I still think that I can "fix" my wife. I see that she is confused and depressed. Everything in my being wants to help her, but I don't know how. I am the LAST person she wants help from, and I don't really know why that is the case. So, you are not alone in the overthinking. I think every one of us on these forums does it. We wouldn't be here if we weren't overthinkers.
I read the reddit divorce sub reddit, and I am amazed at how different of a place it is compared to here. On that sub reddit, once a spouse says ILYBIANILWY, the LBS immediately accepts divorce. It seems like there is no fighting for the marriage. That is so different from this forum. We are all standing. We are all overthinking.
Well the kids and I made it to the beach. H showed up very early this morning. Was chatty and hovering while I did my hair. In The. Bathroom. Weird. Talked about how the bathroom could be remodeled. Its 1970's but at least decent. Did his typical wonder around the house. Made coffee. All very comfortable behaviour for someone thats never lived in this house. I guess as a mil family we've lived in a lot of places and adjust pretty easy. Apparently he referred to me as his wife when calling the hotel to make sure my name was on the reservation. Not sure if he could have called me anything else... who knows. He's been texting me all day off and on while working on the truck. All I know is Im going to enjoy this gifted time with my kids.
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
Goddess - I feel you are in a good place with this. I am new to the forum and will be posting my story soon. I too question how to interact in a positive manner. It's easy to keep doing the same thing but that is not how you facilitate change. I also share your fear of detaching too much to the point where I can't go back from all that has happened.
It's been a bit since I posted. The last couple of weeks have been interesting. I hardly even know where to start. Short version he asked to come HOME on Sunday after picking the kids up for a glamping trip. After a very emotional week and being triggered on my end I had taken off my rings. I didnt do it to get a reaction out of him but because I had started to feel like it was a lie. He'd come over hang out be helpful then go back to the OW. My hope was begining to be questioned. I got tired of the random texts that meant nothing. I quit responding again. So after days of me not responding to him and then coming over and seeing no rings he seemed to have an epiphany. Or lost his mind as the kids called it. He spent hours talking to them, reminiscing about us. Crying in front of them out of loss and fear. Telling them about the affair. Although he seemed to minimize it with them. He said he made the biggest mistake of his life and didnt think I would want him back and didnt deserve to be allowed back. He was terried of asking me and talking. He wanted the kids to talk to me for him. Of course they said no. Again long story short him and I ended up talking on the phone. We spent 3 hours plus on the phone talking. He apologized more times than i can count. Said ILY more than I've heard in a year. Asked if I could forgive him. Asked if he could come home. I of course told him it would require work on both our parts. NC with ow. That if he wasn't ready for that he wasnt ready. He listened to me and validated MY anger. It felt like a very productive conversation. OW called and or text him the entire time we were on the phone. He ignored her completely and even got pissed she wouldnt take a hint and leave him alone. He told me she is very affraid because he talks about me and the kids to her all the time. Says he's made a terrible mistake and how much he loves and misses me. He spoke so positively and proudly of our upcoming 17 year anniversary and being together for 18. He told me he has come to realize over the last few months how much he loves me. Even though at one point he thought he didnt. He told me he has never and will never love anyone more than he loves me. That out of everyone in the world I know him the best. That if he could go back he would never get himself in a position like he did.
I don't know how to handle things from here. Him and S15 are at his apt for the rest of the week hanging out. He borrowed a tv from here (if I never mentioned it he has been using ow tv and game console) when he brought the kids back from their trip Wednesday. Eventually said he had to get back to make sure all his stuff was still there. I aksed what he meant. He claimed he'd had an inspection while he was gone. Could be. Or could have been worried ow took or broke stuff. Heck could have been both. Then like I said come back yesterday to pick up son. Him having any of the kids more than a day since she's been back is unheard of. He's been talking to me daily since Sunday. Confessed to me last night he thinks he's an alcoholic. Apparently he drank over half a bottle of vodka the night before and still "crushed" the gym yesterday with S15. He's always been a drinker. Military life kinda dictates that. I think he's struggling with what he knows is right and what he wants (His family and marriage) and the limerant affair fog feelings for the OW.
He signed a lease for the apt but should be able to get out of it if he choses. He obviously needs to pack up the apt and sell or donate furniture (cause that bed isnt comimg here). I guess my most pressing question is how long do I give him before bringing moving home back up? I put my rings back on and am all in, but I wont be made a fool of. No fence sitting allowed. I told him I know he can't just turn off emotions and is going to have to work through them. I told him we need to work through what lead him down the affair path in the first place. I hope I didn't overwhelm him, but he was so earnest and receptive. The was a little attempt on his part to minimize things but I shut it down. Told him if he's going to lie to just shut his mouth. But I knew the truth and what I've been dealing with the past year. He needed to start by at least being honest with himself. I didnt need the lying and minimizing. He did immediately stop and didnt try again. I heard him say everything I've wanted to hear since all this started. I've been working on healing me. I made the choice to forgive him months ago. It's a long road. I feel emotionally lighter since our talk and finally being able to put voice to anger about the affair. Now no matter what he KNOWS how I felt. No more feeling like I've been complacent about his involvement with the ow. I feel now the real healing for me can begin because I can own my anger.
My kids have been handling the OW revelation remarkably well. Like I said he's minimized it in what im guessing is his attempt to not be completely the bad guy to them. Bless them they were more worried about protecting me from it. They are still processing. Little things have connected like dots for them. Like the tv and her car. As a family I still believe we can come back from all this. With time and work.
On a silly final note. When they were leaving for their trip we were standing in the foyer talking waiting for D11. The teens were joking around about S15 chin hair and how bad it looks. He of course tried playing it cool and acting like it was an epic beard. My H currently has some scruffy stubble (Ive always found it sexy). Well I took both hands and rubbed his cheeks. Still joking with S15 saying his isnt as cool as dad's. I wasn't paying attention to H. Or apparently to his reaction. I havent voluntarily touched him directly in months. As I was told later my him and the kids (who called him out for his reaction) he melted under my touch. He said he was shaking. Kids said his eyes were huge and be looked like he was going to faint. In the words of D14 Dad was shook. I never even noticed.
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
Wow. It definitely sounds like he is starting to change his tune. I recall those early days and the excitement/relief/fear and surreal experience. I am traveling today and not able to sit at a computer and give a thorough reply, but I wanted to at least say a couple things.
Please read the piecing thread that Sandi started. There are some valuable points in there, even if you are not piecing yet. Maybe read it several times.
I am getting a sense that you are moving too quickly and allowing him close to you far, far too quickly. I think that is the most common mistake that people make and I did the same thing, unfortunately. In hindsight, I can see how much that hurt me and our situation. In fact, over time, that is what caused more obstacles and ultimately set us back.
Your H betrayed you in the worst way possible. Honestly, it is the one of the worst things a man can do to his wife and children. He is starting to realize that and is overcome with emotions and guilt. He should be!!! .... Here is the thing tho — his overwhelming feelings of regret and shame does not translate into him becoming a better husband. Not at all! Look at his actions in the last couple years. What actions and changes has he made to be a good person now and for how long has he made these changes??? Really, really let that sink in.
The way to recover a marriage (well, decide to start over really, while shoveling through the damage) is basically just hard work. It is daily blood, sweat and tears. It is a decision each morning to wake up and work. By work I mean be the best person you can be, exercise extreme patience, keep your emotional roller coaster in check (the good and bad), learn to handle triggers (they are everywhere), learn to listen to him and continue to validate, keep your standards of what you expect from him high. Because I’m telling you now, once you get comfortable with him back, you will be piszed off in ways and to extremes you didn’t know possible ... and if you’re not, well then that is just strange.
Basically, you can’t just jump back into it. That will backfire! You may both be feeling strongly, perhaps magnetically, at the prospect of being together again, but those feelings of relief are short lived. Maybe a couple weeks or months. You cannot ignore the past and that he is not trustworthy. His actions cannot be erased. He has to show you a man that deserves your trust and love FIRST before you interact with him in loving ways. Do not lower yourself and your standards in that way. Demand that he show you his changes before giving yourself back to him. So he feels like a royal POS for having an A and leaving you. He should, but does that mean you just take him back? And he was trying to use the kids to get the message across? I’m sorry, but that is cowardly.
I would never advise putting your rings back on, talking to him and spending time with him frequently, or planning any future together. He has to SHOW you he has changed FIRST. And that takes a long time or consistent actions, not tears. He has shown you remorse and that is the first step. But he has to show you why he is ready to be trusted and forgiven. Him crying to you and ignoring OW is just that — him crying and ignoring her.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Hey Blu! Always solid advice and very much appreciated. I have read and reread your post and also the entire piecing thread. I had looked for something on here but couldnt seem to find it. I knew there had to be somerhing on piecing. Is there anything more in depth on how to handle reconciliation? I understant its all about patience. I can also see how easy it is to get impatient. As the LBS we've been working on ourselves (hopefully) and standing for months if not way longer. Its so easy to want to push things along.
I am begining to come to the conclusion that I naturally have more empathy for others than most. I am more introspective and self aware than most. I hope those traits work to my benefit and not detriment. Yes he cheated and it's horrible. And I will never minimize the impact of an affair. I am dealing with triggers daily( I'll come back to that). But I also think that as an LBS that chose to stand we have made the decision to forgive our spouse. At least that's how I see it. We KNOW they are having or have had an affair. Therefore we know there is going to have to be forgiveness in our hearts and minds toward them. That is for us more than them. So we can let go. They have a ton of work to do on themselves and so do we. We all have choices to make. I am chosing to forgive and start purging my anger and resentments. I don't like feeling ugly and torn up inside. I know I have to give myself time. Don't try to deflect and minimize what I feel. Face it head on and feel things and process it fully. Then accpet I felt that way and let it go. Maybe it seems I am oversimplifying things. I'm just long since ready to be done being angry.
Back to being triggered... I found out from S15 last night while talking about H revelations to them that S15 has meet OW. Its been nearly 2 months back. She came over to the apt while son was visiting H. She was introduced as a friend and son didnt think anything of it. Bless his trusting naive heart. I was so ANGRY at H for having the audacity to bring her around one of our kids. I told him from the git go that was a big no no. But after processing I realized two things...A) I have no idea the context of how she came over. Did she show up unannounced and H didnt want to make a seen? Did she manipulate H into being allowed over? The point is I have no idea. Which leads into...B) As much as it pisses me off I was almost 2 months ago. To H it's long since gone. Sunday's epiphanies are recent and fresh. But me learning about something after the fact triggered great feelings of anger and betrayal. I cried I raged I ranted. I purged. Now today I feel annoyance. But going to him with this would I feel not help. Like in Sandi's piecing thread the S seems to see the whole situation as one big fubar session. While the LBS does seem to feel things like the death of 1000 cuts. We feel things differently because we experience things differently.
I know there is a lot of feelings and opinions about rings. I had put my rings back on prior to talking to him Sunday night. I was wearing them while talking to him and he didnt know. My rings are about me. My commitment to my marriage. My symbol of hope and love. Minus for the occasional cleaning I have never taken them off in 17 years. I was able to wear them throughout all three pregnancies. Due to his job he's spent more time without them than with them. Obviously me taking mine off affected him a lot. As much as it svcks and I have to remind myself; he has to process his feelings for the OW. He might have come to realize he never stopped loving me and loves me more than anyone and doesnt want a divorce but like it gets said all over...breaking up is hard. Limerant feelings dont just disappear. But I do believe because he moved out and left and they've had to deal with reality together its a different dynamic than if it had remained an emotional fantasy affair. Not trying to mind read him or the situation just trying to put together what I read here and other sites.
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
Any pearls of wisdom dealing with wayward H falling out of limerant affair fog?
It's been 48 hours since any communication with H. I am 100% sure he got wasted Saturday night. No clue if he's back in communication with OW after their falling out last week. He's yet to tell me whether or not he's broken up with her. I really don't understand how the wayward mind when it's a man works. I've read all the sitches with WW but no idea how to apply any of that to me. I don't know if it does. I sometimes feel I've wasted months thinking he was MLC. Only to figure out it's limerant waywardness. I know I am a better stronger person now than I was last year. The kids and I are so OK most days it's almost scary. To many deployments I suppose. We are used to getting along without him being around.
Is there ever an appropriate point to tell him to $#!+ or get off the pot? He's said he doesn't want a divorce. Misses his family. Wants me. Knows he f'd up big time. Didn't know if id take him back or want him at all after everything. Well now he knows where I stand. What it's going to take... No more OW period, counciling, working on past marriage problems, figuring out what lead to him having the affair. Transparency. I kinda worry I overwhelmed him. But at the same time I feel like it's a very reasonable list and normal things to ask for. He agreed to everything at the time. I know he's depressed and hates himself. Guilt is eating him alive. I know he's been drinking way too much. I can't help him he's got to be willing to help himself.
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
