Drove back to my house in separate cars. He proceeded to hang out for a couple hours. Joked with kids and dogs. Joked with me and had nornal conversation. My new cc came in and he set that all up. Curiouser and couriouser. Then when he finally left about 20 mins ago he hugged the kids and said by love y'all. He lingered at the door STARING AT ME until I looked up and he said see y'all later.
I have no expectations at this point. But wow.
Very predictable behavior. This is classic "cake-eating". He's missing the old family life a little and wants to get a "hit" of it before he goes back to his adulterous ways.
Blu said this earlier and it is spot on:
Quote
It can be confusing to send two opposite messages simultaneously -- 1. I am not plan B and am moving on with my life, and 2. if you end your A, I might be willing to give you another chance. .... I think you can only go with the first. If, and only if, he comes to you and has ended the A, shows you proof and remorse, and is asking for another chance, then you can entertain the second. ... In the mean time, keep pulling further and further back.
Next time he wants to come over to "hang out" then tell him you don't feel comfortable with him doing that anymore. You've got to shut down the cake-eating or it will go on indefinitely and he will never learn to miss you.
Goddess: what happened before when you pulled back? Pretty sure you're cementing that you're plan B if you're encouraging him to come over and play happy families and then go back to his mistress. Shouldn't you be tripping out the door in a cloud of eau de goddess? By all means let him see what he's missing but that might have been too much... (says dilly who is seriously crap at this but can at least see it in others)
Whenever I pull back he comes closer. Since May when OW came home that was when I went at least dim. I don't talk to him. I dont initiate conversation or reach out to him. Ive posted here pretty much everytime he's said something to me since then. Minus the absolutely useless If I'm supposed to do more of whats working and avoid cheeseless tunnels then me not talking to him works. If I am supposed to sit quietly and watch to see if his renewed interest is genuine then I am. It seems to be slow but positive movement forward. Clearly something has to be shifting in him if he's been texting me more this past week. Maybe I'm being nieve. Hope can be a cruel mistress. Everyone says actions over words. Well if his LL is gifts and he's been doing all these things then... Do people who want to divorce usually give their LBS a new opened ended amex? Do they tranfer mil edu benefits to not only the kids but LBS as well? I don't want to be obtuse here but I also don't want to miss a small effort from him.
He came to my town and house out of the blue. It didnt make me uncomfortable. Him being there didnt stop me from doing my own thing around the house. Just because he showed up doesnt mean I am going to be chased out of my own house mid day when I'd just gotten back from town and a GALing lunch with a friend. It had been about two weeks since he'd seen the kids. I don't see how allowing that is cake eating. I was casual accountant like. Friendly but detached. Isnt that the goal? To be lovingly detached? And isn't detachement for our personal emotional health? If his shenanigans don't bother me isnt that good? I did at least look good while he was around. I was casual but I'd done my makeup and curled my hair(which I don't usually do). I know I looked good.
Idk Maybe I have too much hope. Maybe I am being naive. Everyone says only talk to them if it's about kids or finances. Well I have been dealing almost solely with both for years. So as long as there is money in the account I don't have a need to contact him. Am I supposed to stop ALL conversation at this point? I thought that level of dark was for once they get their divorce and still try to draw the LBS into their drama. I know he's moved out and has OW still as far as I know. I don't talk about her or mention anything to do with her. I am just doing me. 180's galing and all. Building my emotional strength. Isn't dropping the rope letting go of the idea of control and not letting their emotional bs affect us? Is it essentially being done to the point of not caring if we get back together? Is that my problem? Am I not apathetic? I do still care and I do hope. And I know if the work is put in the new marriage would be worth it.
It would be so much easier for me to handle if he was being an a$$. But he's not. He's "just" still in an affair. And thats another thing. There are conflicting options and advice about them coming back. Some say the affair has to be completely over and the ow withdrawl processed. Others says they could lack the strength to fully leave the ow until making attempts to return home. The monkey branch analogy but in reverse. No wonder its so confusing. LBS want to do what "works" but what works in one sitch might be different in another.
Gah! Y'all if I need a 2x4 please give it to me. I'm trying not to read anything into his behavior but at the same time watch for any signs of improvement.
Sorry for the ramblimg and sideways tangent Dilly. I've been doing a lot of thinking the last couple of days.
Me: 36 H: 37 M: 16 T: 17 Kids: S15 D14 D11 BD: July '18 OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me) H moved out Jan '19
It is awfully confusing isn't it? Because on the one hand maybe he's not feeling like coming back, maybe he's just temp checking and seeing that you're still there for him. But I agree that it must be hard for them to ditch the OW and be alone in the hope that you'll have them back. That's a big risk, to be alone, so at some stage if he wants to come back then he will creep towards you and you don't want to be too rejecting that he feels like there's no chance.
I have no advice, I'm CADG remember, but I just want you to be careful, I'm sure you are thinking hard about all this and won't keep your expectations too high xx
dilly, I actually LOL when I read your posts about realizing it in others but still being CAGD. "(says dilly who is seriously crap at this but can at least see it in others)" HAHA. I actually know what you mean. We have all experienced that at one time or another. I think the great thing about posting here is that as we read other posters' sitches and give them advice, it does force us to look at our own sitch and if we are taking our own advice. On that note, I just left you a giant 2*4 on your thread. You're welcome for that :-)
And I will remind you all that I did not even post during my separation. I read here daily, but could not bring myself to create an account and open myself up. I was a huge mess and I am sure would have been whacked over the head daily. My struggles were different tho. I only allowed cake eating in the very beginning. Then when I realized what I was doing (serving cake) by allowing family time and showing my vulnerability (allowing R talks and showing my emotions), while he was having an A, I then did a 180. And I swung far in the other direction to the point of ignoring him at times and even being cold or indifferent. It took me some time again, to readjust, to actually following the rules.
And I believe it was me finally following the DB philosophy that led to him ending his A and coming back. I showed hm that I was moving on and would be fine without him, but I was pleasant and detached when he initiated contact. He had to see that he was losing me before wanting me again. That is a theme I have read here again and again. You cannot nice them back or show them what they are losing -- you have to start to detach and move on, while remaining strong and confident that you don't need them.
There has been some talk lately about when to go dark (minimal to no contact) verses allowing more pleasant interactions in hopes that they will "see what they are missing." This can be difficult to address because there are variations in our sitches. It is a fine line, but I do think there is a way to do both. I believe that I was able to do this, but the timing is everything. It also depends on the dynamic in our sitches and little nuances. However, I am reading more cake eating than anything in most of the posters here. You do not have to SHOW them anything, but as you detach, 180, GAL on your own, they will become curious and peek over their shoulder. You do not need to have family time or time together to remind them of anything -- that is FALSE! That is CAKE. They know what they had before! They have not forgotten. They just rewrite history to justify their cr-p behaviors. ... They need to actually lose it to miss it ...
Goddess, you said "It would be so much easier for me to handle if he was being an a$$. But he's not. He's "just" still in an affair." .... In my opinion him being in an affair is honestly the worst assault on his M. It is not a simple distraction, it is a HUGE breach of trust, a broken commitment, and he tore apart his family over it. He left his W for some OW. My H was actually quite pleasant and kind in our interactions too and really wasn't an a$$ either. It didn't change the fact that he was a lying, cheating, selfish, jerk! Him being "nice" did not outweigh the bigger picture. I actually think it was all a part of his Nice Guy personality and those guys are dangerous. His mom hit the nail on the head when he was having his A -- she said "he is a wolf in sheep's clothing."
So I reserve my position that you are still in the LRT and you should continue to go dark and pull back. It is okay for him to start thinking he is losing you. He needs to miss you before he realizes what he could stand lose.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I agree that 'just' being in an affair is unacceptable. You deserve better, after all you are a goddess, right? And you're right about detachment, you need to be detached enough to be ok no matter what, but not so detached that you shut the door on him forever.
So yes, accept his gifts with thanks and the kind of gratitude you'd give anyone else, but don't read too much into it, you'll only end up disappointed if it's just a temp check. At some stage he might keep giving more and more and make it obvious that he wants R rather than to check in on plan B, but he's not there yet is he? For starters you're assuming the OW is still in the picture...
Can you give me some advice on how to limit contact while still living together? We play family every day, because we are a family. We still make dinner together, do the dished together, put the kids to bed together. These are my 180s, even though I think I was pulling my weight before, and she is using this stuff to justify her desire to leave. I think that is her rewriting the history of our marriage.
Can you give me some advice on how to limit contact while still living together? We play family every day, because we are a family. We still make dinner together, do the dished together, put the kids to bed together. These are my 180s, even though I think I was pulling my weight before, and she is using this stuff to justify her desire to leave. I think that is her rewriting the history of our marriage.
That's great advice from Blu, I was formulating a reply in my head but she pretty much said everything I was going to
DB'ing isn't a once-size-fits-all approach. You have to tinker with it to make it work for your particular sitch. But at the same time you have to be very careful not to use that personal modifying as an excuse to pursue. It's fine to be polite and friendly but don't cross the line into constantly confirming to him that you are Plan B. You don't have to be cold/ rude/ indifferent but at the same time he needs to feel he is losing you. Like Blu said it's a balancing act. That's why these forums are so helpful, we can let you know if you're going too far
Can you give me some advice on how to limit contact while still living together? We play family every day, because we are a family. We still make dinner together, do the dished together, put the kids to bed together. These are my 180s, even though I think I was pulling my weight before, and she is using this stuff to justify her desire to leave. I think that is her rewriting the history of our marriage.
It is very, very difficult to go dim or dark while living under the same roof. I don't want to say it's "impossible" because TXHubby did it. But in his case he finally got fed up with his cheating wife and said "forget her, I'm going to live and enjoy my life and I am completely excluding her from it" and that's exactly what he did. Note that he made no announcement to her, did not tell her he had an epiphany, did not threaten to leave her, did not give her an ultimatum. He simply quit caring about her and changed his life THROUGH HIS ACTIONS. 99% of LBS's here simply don't have the intestinal fortitude to do it. Even he didn't for quite some time, but when he finally did it he was all in. He went out and GAL'd and lost weight and dressed better and never said one word to her about any of it. The more he did it the more she got curious and temp checked him. He did not so much as acknowledge her temp checks. He was DONE. Eventually she dropped OM and begged him to take her back. He had a hard time with that, he really was truly done with her by then. They did reconcile but he maintained his new alpha status even after they did.
I feel for all of you in IHS's. It's absolutely miserable. It's hard as hell to DB while under the same roof, eating the same meals, taking care of the kids together, etc. All I can tell you is forget about going dim or dark, you just can't. So while you're under the same roof just keep trying to show them what they will be missing. If and when they leave don't fight it, because even though it may not feel like it they are doing you a favor. That's when the real DB'ing and growth begins.
If I'm supposed to do more of whats working and avoid cheeseless tunnels then me not talking to him works. If I am supposed to sit quietly and watch to see if his renewed interest is genuine then I am. It seems to be slow but positive movement forward. Clearly something has to be shifting in him if he's been texting me more this past week. Maybe I'm being nieve. Hope can be a cruel mistress. Everyone says actions over words. Well if his LL is gifts and he's been doing all these things then... Do people who want to divorce usually give their LBS a new opened ended amex? Do they tranfer mil edu benefits to not only the kids but LBS as well? I don't want to be obtuse here but I also don't want to miss a small effort from him.