Am I doing this right??

[Goddess8]

Hey Hope,

Not talking to H is pretty easy on the daily. I had to text him about vehicle registration stuff yesterday but it was to the point. I know if he's not saying anything to me the OW is around. The thought of her bothers me less and less. Knowing she is a stall tactic for him dealing with his actual issues makes it easier to remeber she is his problem to deal with. It is actually pretty comical that he whines about me "ignoring" him and what is he doing to me? Oh Ya! Ignoring me! Out of sight out of mind. And the OW is so jealous and insecure about me its amazing. And not the least bit surprising he doest say anything to me around her. It blows my mind that no one has realized that as the mother of his kids I am NEVER going away.

I've been putting some thought into the whole MLC vs not debate. And whether H is more wayward(thats definitely in there). I think based on my own observations of H and reading till my eyes are dry of other peoples sitches MLC is a real thing. Yes the name isnt very consistent with when people can actually go through it. But it isnt suprising that people are coming into it younger. With SM bombarding us constanting on what a perfect life is like people feel that pressure earlier. With my H being mil we have always lived a fast life. When life can literally be taken at any point its hard not to try to squeeze as much in as possible. I think in regards to MLC it is a misnomer people abuse. They can use it as an excuse to rationalize away their S bad behavior. There is no excuse for how we let people treat us. If your S is going through an emotional readjustment phase and acting out out of pain and fear the best thing to do is let them be. Use your boundries for what is done directly to you, ie: no physical violence or verbal abuse. If he stomps around the house being a jerk to the air...let him. The air doesnt care. If he looks you in the face and trys cussing or throwing insults call him out calmly and say you won't tolerate the nasty. Then walk off. People are allowed to feel things. Understand most of the spew is directed at themselves and they are projecting at a convenient receptacle. But handling them with sympathy and empathy not only shows them we care about their pain but how to treat people IN pain. Showing them how to treat us in turn. I definitely did my share of crying, begging and pursuing in the begining but even at his nastiest did allow him to be an a$$. I call him on it Every. Single. Time. I understand depression. I have been there. BD actually pulled me out of one of my worst ever. People who have never experienced depression don't believe it's real or as bad as people say. When you are depressed you dont see the world as it really is. You see the world through your pain. The worse the pain the worse everything looks. I think this is why MLC and waywardness can and do hold hands. The wayward behaviors like A's give them the feel goods that the depression steal away. It is absolutely an artificial high but the spouse in crisis doesnt get that yet. I think its why the advice is to leave the A alone. Ever try to take a toy from a toddler? Or a phone from a teen? Ya...

Sorry if I rambledand been thinking a lot since 5am. Guess I'll go have more coffee

[Goddess8]

Doing some thinking and reading....

I am probably going to catch flack for this thought since we focus so much on healing ourselves as LBS's.

BUT once we are on our path of healing and working on our own emotional journey is there ever a time to reflect on our S's pain? It seems what they are going through gets disregarded because of their behavior. But people are not their behavior. If at the heart of their anger, nasty spew, and rebellious antics is someone deaply hurt and struggling then once we are healing ourselves shouldn't we show them kindness and compassion? If they begin treating us LBS kindly again consistently is it really a manipulation? Is it automatically to be viewed as malicious? Or self serving? Is there ever a point in their behavior that begins to signal they are seeing reality and begining to cautiously peek out and see how they are going to be received? If as an LBS you have worked hard to lovingly detach and their antics no longer emotionally affect you does having a conversation automatically keep setting you up as plan b? If you are still married, still wear your ring but they are still having an affair doesn't that still send the subconscious message that you are still here? Still plan b?

We as LBS have been hurt by our spouses, but when do we consider their feelings? Is that the true point of validation? To listen and consider what they are saying they feel with open mind and heart? Not to let them continually beat us over the head with our wrong doings and also not do the same to them? Is it possible we've DB'd so hard to heal ourselves and misunderstood detaching practices that when and if the S figures out they do want the marriage they are terrified of being emotionally flayed. They are already raw by that point surely. If they are at the point of "oh crap" they KNOW they messed up big. Depending on what stage they are in they could be starting OP withdrawl or in the middle of it.

I think as an LBS part of being the greener grass is less about our physical appearances and or our emotional growth(both hugely important) but our unconditional love held for our spouses. We know they messed up. They know they messed up. Isn't true unconditional love seeing a person for all their flaws and mistakes and bad behavior and loving the person anyway? Especially if they want to change?

Is it possible potential begining reconciliation attempts are made with a very small whisper that most miss? The DR book says watch for small steps forward. Do we get so busy seeing the big picture and trying to protect our own hearts that we miss the small cracks in the cement they encased theirs with? I'd hate to miss the forest for the trees.

[Grace21]

I have gently tried talking to H about his journey a few times, but so far H just says things like "I got what I deserve", "I'm depressed", etc. In spite of everything that has occurred throughout our marriage (and there is PLENTY, I assure you), I still believe he is redeemable with God's love and Grace, and that we could have a good life together if God can reach him. H just hasn't found a way to accept it yet. I believe that our brief interactions are my opportunity to show God's love and Grace through my actions, validation, and positive attitude. I have found an inner happiness on this journey, and I believe he sees it. It’s his choice whether he will receive it.

As far as missing potential small signs or attempts as reconciliation, only you would know how to respond on a case by case basis. For me, I choose to just take things at face value – such as the invite to dinner. I just looked at it as a single event. And it was pleasant. I’m trying very hard to let him give what he can, and ask nothing of him emotionally. He will find himself ready, or not, at some point in the future. If he is never ready, and stays in limbo indefinitely, at some point I will have to decide if it’s time for me to move on.

In the early months, I wore my ring, and even pointed it out a few times to him. I thought about whether it came across to H as 'plan B'. Who knows. Doesn't really matter what they think. Ultimately you are only plan b if YOU choose to be plan B. I have since taken my ring off about 2 months ago. Just wort of morphed into not wearing it. I've been thinking about my stand lately, and felt compelled to wear them a bit over the weekend. This surprised me.

Anyway, good luck on your journey.

Grace

[Goddess8]

So H apparently did a thing...

He text me last night to tell me he ordered me an authorized user card on his new credit card acct. What????!??! I don't understand this at all. He canceled me off a long time card months ago because "I was only with him for the money". I just said OK because I don't even know what to do with this.

[BluWave]

Goddess,

I like what you wrote and I have no flack to give (surprise, surprise, haha). I know that there are a lot of mixed opinions and advice on these 2 issues specifically (1. the relevance of the term MLC and 2. how much understanding and "kindness" we should extend to our S). I completely value and respect others' positions, even if they differ from mine. We wouldn't need this forum or these conversations if it was all set in stone! I appreciate the dialogues and at times debates on the various threads here. There have been times when someone has left a 2*4 or criticism for me, that I might have initially dismissed, only to later think more deeply about it and then found some real usefulness in it. We can all learn from one another if we choose to.

Some of the reasons I swing hard 2*4s at LBW here, is because I cannot go back in time and swing them at myself when I was initially post-BD. I really could have benefited from some myself because I made a lot of mistakes after H left. I can see now that those mistakes caused him to stay away much longer. We have talked about all this because he has now been back over 4 years. He was scared of me and my emotional outbursts. I was also needy. But much more important than him and what he thought, I can see how I kept myself in my own tailspin and caused a lot of my own hurt. I blamed him, but really I was hurting myself, and my own integrity, by hanging on so tight. I see a lot of LBWs making my same mistakes.

I tend to call BS on LBWs blaming their Hs behavior on MLC and I tell the Ws to toughen up, because I can read their "weakened" position all over their posts. I do not mean "weak" as in there is any character flaw, not at all! I mean weak in the sense that they have been beaten down to a pulp -- they are hurt, fearful and raw -- by their Hs treatment and abandoning them. So when she is reacting and interacting with her H from a place of vulnerability and fear, she is not showing him her true (goddess) strong self. She is fearful and needy. The H can sense that all over her! So he will only run away faster. The LBWs that come from a position of more confidence, strength and even at times guarded and indifferent, tends to have a different outcome. She is demanding respect! This is what men are attracted to.

In these cases, the H tends to realize that he is losing her and she is not plan B. And as all of us humans are flawed; we want what we cannot have. If he knows she will put up with his neglect, abuse or affairs, he will continue on and selfishly do what he wants. Does MLC, alcohol or depression play a role? Sure. Maybe, but maybe not. I tend to think the reasons don't matter that much because WE AS THE LBW STILL HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING. We have to let go of the toxic person, drop the rope, go dark, LOVE OURSELVES, and invest in a healthier and happier life. Hanging on to them does not serve us in any way. Understanding them does not fix the problem. We cannot fix them, but we can work on fixing ourselves.

And if these Hs want no part of a strong W and mother of their kids? WELL THEN IT IS THEIR LOSS ....We can love them and try to understand them from a distance -- we don't have to be rude or disrespectful to them -- but we can certainly remove ourselves from their poor treatment of us and give our attention to the things and people that deserve it. They don't deserve it right now.

Blu

[dillydaf]

Goddess: I resonate with so much of what you wrote there.
And Blu, thanks for that. I know I need to take this on board, but I still find it so so so hard to let go. It's ridiculous, it's been nearly 10 months now since H left and still I feel so attached. Last week was a good week where I felt pretty calm and kept busy, but this weekend I am really suffering so much and forcing myself not to text or call. Like I say, ridiculous.

[Goddess8]

So went out with a female friend to a pub tonight. Had fun met some of her teammates. Drank a couple beers. Was very mellow. Night wore on and more people showed up. Realized I was getting checked out a few times from across the patio. To be honest it was a little flattering but it mostly pissed me off. They couldn't see my rings from where they were so it was purely me. Thats the flattering part. But inside it pisses me off because I want my H. I talked about things with my friend but mostly enjoyed being out around other grown people. Didnt talk to guys at all. Didnt wonder once what H was currently up to. But I do miss him. Coming up on a year since BD so... D@#n beer

[Goddess8]

Was told by family this afternoon H went out of town about an hour away this weekend with friends and of course OW. Had a moment to be annoyed that he's wasting the money on her when he claims he's unhappy and thinks about breaking up with her. But then I reminded myself I went out last night and had a great time. And if he wanted to be with me he'd make the choice and be here. What really made me laugh was no more than 15-20 mins after talking to sil (and i know she didnt say anything to him about talking to me) H text me asking if kids needed anything from the mall. I said no. It reminded me of when he used to leave last year at the begining of all this. He'd go be with OW (before i knew about A) be gone for a couple days and of course no contact. Then whenever he'd be on the way home he'd text asking if we needed anything from town. Most of the time I said no. But sometimes I did need something so I'd have him get it. There was even a couple times he'd come home with a surprise for me. Nothing major but something he'd seen that he thought I'd like.


Been reading a lot about "wayward fog" and how it pertains to the affair. Is there ever a point the LBS can or should speak to the wayward to say "hey you have another choice."? Or is the best advice to still leave them to their own devices let go and "hope" they make the choice to turn back? I definitely love the phrase my marriage may be in limbo but I am not.

[HrtHsbnd]

I’m not sure, but my gut reaction says that once you let them know you know about it, leave it alone and work hard on yourself to be the person you want to be. Hopefully that will also be the person they want to be with, too.

Was told by family this afternoon H went out of town about an hour away this weekend with friends and of course OW. Had a moment to be annoyed that he's wasting the money on her when he claims he's unhappy and thinks about breaking up with her. But then I reminded myself I went out last night and had a great time. And if he wanted to be with me he'd make the choice and be here. What really made me laugh was no more than 15-20 mins after talking to sil (and i know she didnt say anything to him about talking to me) H text me asking if kids needed anything from the mall. I said no. It reminded me of when he used to leave last year at the begining of all this. He'd go be with OW (before i knew about A) be gone for a couple days and of course no contact. Then whenever he'd be on the way home he'd text asking if we needed anything from town. Most of the time I said no. But sometimes I did need something so I'd have him get it. There was even a couple times he'd come home with a surprise for me. Nothing major but something he'd seen that he thought I'd like.


Been reading a lot about "wayward fog" and how it pertains to the affair. Is there ever a point the LBS can or should speak to the wayward to say "hey you have another choice."? Or is the best advice to still leave them to their own devices let go and "hope" they make the choice to turn back? I definitely love the phrase my marriage may be in limbo but I am not.

[AnotherStander]

Had a moment to be annoyed that he's wasting the money on her when he claims he's unhappy and thinks about breaking up with her. But then I reminded myself I went out last night and had a great time. And if he wanted to be with me he'd make the choice and be here.

If he doesn't like being around her then things will continue to deteriorate the more he sees her. So I wouldn't sweat that too much. The fact that he sees her at all is reason enough for you to want nothing to do with him right now.

Been reading a lot about "wayward fog" and how it pertains to the affair. Is there ever a point the LBS can or should speak to the wayward to say "hey you have another choice."?

No, that's a "temperature check" and just reassures him you are still Plan B. Plan B never gets moved to Plan A. You have to cease to be an option before he realizes what he's lost.

Or is the best advice to still leave them to their own devices let go and "hope" they make the choice to turn back?

Yes.

I definitely love the phrase my marriage may be in limbo but I am not.

Right! That's a great mantra to have.