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Goddess, I am posting through what I have learned from others here, rather than my own experience. I've not done so well at DBing until more recently, and my situation is different from yours.

But I think words are cheap, texts are even cheaper, and if he was choosing you, you would know it through action. He can tell you he thinks highly of you and that he loves you and that he didn't choose another woman or family, but what do his actions suggest?

I think he's spooked that you're not as responsive as he wants you to be. He can no longer count on you to be plan B. If he wanted to repair things, he would be actively repairing them from his side, though actions.

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Goddess, Alison is right, it's all just cheap talk to try and keep you on the hook as Plan B. Be much more brief in your replies:

H: I Think more of you than you know
I do appreciate everything you do for our kids I hope you know that

Me: Thank you (this is good)

H: Ur welcome
: I mean it
:Might not mean anything or you might not believe me , but I do love you I hope you know that
:I may have said otherwise in the past but that wasn't true
:Always feel like you ignore me now

Me: Im sorry you feel that way.
: Ignoring you isnt my intent, but pulling back to protect myself while you made your choices felt best for me to heal

(first part is OK, second part unneeded)

H: I do
: Made my choices of what
: I dont even know what my choices are any more

Me: You chose another life besides the family. You chose another woman

(don't reply to junk like this, just silence)

H: I never have or never will chose another family
: An I dont want you to think i chose another woman or anyone or anything
: You really think I've gave up everything??
: Think I'd be upset that you ignore me
: Think I'd still think about you an us

Me: It definitely seems like you gave us up and chose someone else
: Thats how it felt


(Again, not worth replying to)

Keep your responses brief, to the point, businesslike, unemotional. Try and limit to discussions to coparenting topics and nothing more. If he includes emotional spew then just ignore it.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Hi Goddess,

I just read your thread. I don't post much, but I still read along often. I have some thoughts, but know that they are influenced by my own experience, and I have not read many sitches like mine on these boards (as most of the time the S does not return). My H started an EA 5-6 years ago, then left the house for OW for 10 months, then returned and has been back over 4 years. We also have 3 kids. ... Side note: you mentioned MLC, but I don't see that (and personally don't like that term), and your H appears to be completely wayward and in limerance. I tend to think that the spouses that are more likely to return to the M are the waywards and it seems (I have no science to back this) that the Hs return back to the M more often than the Ws. Basically, from my perspective, out of all the folks that leave their M, the Hs that left to pursue OW, are the ones most likely to come back. The WWs seem less so. And the Walkaways (Hs and Ws) seem the least. Again, that is based on my own readings and research. I have no evidence :-)

Based on your last convo, it does read that he is pondering coming back. He has shown some signs of doubt, remorse and guilt all along. That is a good thing! I think they are more likely to come back with those elements verses when they run out the door chalked full of anger and resentment. That was also the case in my sitch. Even tho my H left for an A and told me he wanted D, he also felt tremendous guilt and was remorseful all along. He would still initiate contact and temp check. He would also tell me he knew it was a mistake or that he was confused, depressed, etc. He would do this even before the turning point came. His turning point did not come until I started to really follow the rules. You sound like you have been doing a much better job at that all along! I spent a long time lashing out, begging/pleading, and then lashing out again .... I am very impressed at how level headed you are and how you have been handling this!

So the others are telling you that talk is cheap. I agree, but only sort of. I am sensing that he really is starting to come around. He is also wanting to keep communication going, wanting you to know he is not w/ OW and he is inquiring about where you are at. I recall this happening in my own sitch, and I could just feel a shift -- in his words, his affect and in the way he wanted info from me. I am reading that in your interaction and it feels similar to my Hs first signs of coming back. I could be wrong, but I am just telling you that this feels really similar to me. I use the words "feel" because more than words, it was my SENSE and INTUITION that knew he was coming back. I can't exactly describe it, because like I tell other posters-- when they are coming back, you will just know it, and if you don't know it or are confused, then they are not coming back (yet). I am gathering that you are feeling a shift as well and I think you should trust your own gut. What does it tell you?

So what do you DO or SAY now? I agree with AS. Less is more! Continue to follow the 37 rules, your GAL, and keep up those 180s. Simply listen and validate only. Offer very little info. DO NOT MAKE CHANGES YET. If anything, steadily pull back a little bit more and more. Why? Because this is a critical time and you do not have enough info yet. Also, I am sorry, but your H is a jerk. He left his W and kids for a younger woman at work. Boo on him! He is going to have to work A LOT harder than that to get you back. You are a goddess! And a goddess deserves to be treated like gold!!!

This might be the beginning of his turn around. I caution that it can be very difficult and emotionally triggering. You might even find yourself not wanting him and being resentful as he tries harder. Please take this as slowly and carefully as possibly and keep posting here. Head over heart. We can help you through this!

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Bump ...

I am really hoping Goddess keeps us updated. You mentioned a concern of him finding this. I think it would be highly unlikely -- even if he saw this site -- that he could find your threads and identify you among the 100s of posters and active threads.

Also, to our UK ladies that I keep swinging 2*4s at, please read her thread! Read her words carefully from the beginning and note some differences, in how her H has acted, but more so in how she is responding. ... This is the type of thread and model DBing that could have helped me years ago in my own sitch. It is possible to allow healthy detachment ... it also can lead to them coming back ...

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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This is perfect, thanks for pointing it out, Blu!


ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19

8/17-BD
IHS: 1/17-2/19
D FILED (ME): 7/19
D FINAL: 10/20
M23 T25
OW CONFIRMED: 01/21

Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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Hey Blu!

Thank you responding. Your note about MLC rings true as I have been having the exact same thoughts. Mlc or wayward... After all my research and knowing his history MLC seemed the most logical. He seemed to be reading from a pocket edition MLC guide for dummies laugh Is it possible the two share traits and overlap? I know he left to pursue the OW moving out at her insistence due to insecurity of us being around each other while she was deployed and out of the picture. Jokes on her because he was over at my house 4 days a week(no overnights) and we talked daily. I really FEEL like those months were benificial for us to rebuild the tattered bridges of our relationship.

I know the OW is still in the picture based on conversation he had this past week with my SiL. He said things were bad and they always fought. That she didnt trust him about anything(can't imagine why lol) It was also relayed to me that after getting called on his BS he admitted that yes we were good before he met OW( I know we had underlying issues). SiL also asked him whats stopping him from going home if he's so unhappy with the OW and the situation. He responded with a quiet I dont know. Now mind you the last time months ago she asked H a similar question he said he was never moving back. I agree with you with the sense even with the ow still hanging around that he is considering coming home.

One thing that makes me belly laugh is his choice of decor for his apt. He has filled it with things that remind him of home. If not straight up things I was getting rid of. He had specifically sought out items in brands I love and shop for. I know not to read into it I just think it's hilarious.

Yes! The shift in mood for lack of a better word. It feels different. I think that was my main reason for posting the whole convo. I was struggling with the thoughts that I'd said too much and not wanting to read to much into things. H has always been a man of little words. But first to call BS on someone. After months in the begining of spew then cold silence with patches of normal conversation then the more normal while ow was gone. Then a couple months back getting the maybe I love you and maybe I miss you and maybe I made a mistake. Then saying he loves someone else in the same conversation. To which I responded ok wink I don't think Ive ever responded how he expected me too. Minus the first few weeks after BD. Yikes those were rough. But I digress... Yes he's said he was very confused and depressed. Loved both me and ow and didnt know what to do. Thats why after she came back and he didnt talk to me for days the NC decision was an easy one. Like i said Sat to him, he made his choice I respected his right to chose and removed myself from the situation. I am not second best or an after thought. I WILL be number one or nothing. I have proved my worth time and again over numerous deployments and kids and houses. I SEE myself clearer and truer than ever before. I am not perfect but I am worth it. laugh

And don't be sorry H is a jerk. A total a$$. I am pleased to note though he's been better with the kids and more interested and involved(prior to this last month of ow being back) than he's ever been. H is having meaningful bonding with S15 which they very much need.


I can totally see how him making effort can be emotionally exhausting. I've spent months living my life for myself and my kids. Adding him back into the mix while the preferred goal for the family will definitely be filled with ups and downs and a whole different sent of issues.


I think between the talk with my SiL (hearing Ow was laying next to him while they talked and it not bothering me) and his texting Saturday night not actively immediately getting my hopes ups. I have been able to detach more than i realized. Even my mom commented last week how Ive been talking less and less about our sitch.
Less him and more me. Isn't that the ultimate LBS goal lol


Me: 36 H: 37
M: 16 T: 17
Kids: S15 D14 D11
BD: July '18
OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me)
H moved out Jan '19
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Zero expectations, goddess. Keep your head high and keep doing what you're doing and if he comes back then let him do so slowly and earning his way back. For starters OW needs to be out of the picture, surely? My sitch is more complicated because if there's an OW she is unbelievably well hidden. Or as Alison has said, my H's work is the OW (which is ridiculously complicated to deal with...)

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dilly, I would bet my house (and it's a pretty nice one) that your H has or had at least 1 OW. Honestly. Here are the main things H's having As do, and your H has done them ALL. 1. He moved out of the family home. 2. He has a flat you cannot see and other "secretive" behavior, 3. He is moody and hot/cold with you, even tho at times he wants to keep you as plan B. That is all I need to know to be 100% certain there is OW. Sorry to be blunt, my dear, but I want you to accept it. I think accepting it will help you detach. I see you taking responsibility for your M issues, but I think It's time to get mad! MAD at him for leaving his W and family. ... ok, sorry, hijack over. ...


Goddess, ooohhhh, I have so many thoughts about your sitch. And I will preface them by saying that I have a bit of a different twist on DB technique when it comes to the wayward H, as evidenced by my advice to dilly above. I tend to lean the focus less towards positive validation and more towards indifference and detachment, even if at times it comes across as cold. Yes, it is a fine line, but one that can be walked if you are careful and delicate. From what I read in your sitch, you have done a good job at this, I would suggest you start to pull back further and further on him now. Let him pursue, and you distance. It is okay if he starts to think it might be too late and he is losing you. Good! He needs to make some changes and get on with them! You are not sitting there waiting for him.

Quite simply, these fools (WHs) need to see what they are losing. We gotta flip the script on them! It pains me that I read so many women here trying so hard to get their Hs to come back around, work on the R with them, take responsibility for the M problems, and worse, validating their Hs cr4ppy behaviors! What happens is the result is that they are becoming doormats and not strong and confident women that he even wants to come home to. No, no, no ladies, YOU are the prize (and the Goddess) and these guys need to SEE what they are going to miss out on and also they need to start to FEEL the loss of you! So I ask you now, what kind of woman does he see in front of him? ..... At times it can feel like a silly game, but it's actually not a game, it's more of a truth, a truth that your wounded selves struggle to see right now. YOU ARE THE PRIZE AND YOU DESERVE MORE THAN THIS. Do not lower your standards because of your past mistakes. We all make mistakes.

In terms of MLC, I am just going to say (again, this is my opinion) that it is a BS term. In fact, It think using the term can cause harm because it creates an excuse or explanation for bad behavior, as if it cannot be corrected. All behavior can be changed. The term Midlife Crisis is also not a medical diagnosis or condition that is even recognized by psychology. People can have a crisis at any point in their life and there could be 100 reasons for it, and it's not as if age alone determines that (which the title suggests). Also, if a person is having a crisis, they are ultimately still responsible for the way they treat their S and their children. I read too many people here wanting to explain their S's poor choices on a MLC and my thought is it doesn't really matter, because it is still up to you (and me) to let them know how we expect them to treat us. If they want to be selfish, cheat, lie, and neglect their families, then they are free to leave. Bye, bye now. If they want to show respect and have honest conversations, then we can listen and validate until the cows come home. And if they want to reenter the M and have an intimate R with us, then they need to do the HARD work first.

The M will not survive and the piecing will not last, unless both people take responsibility for their part in it. Them showing signs of wanting to come back is just that -- the first signs. So why not spend less energy on trying to read the signs, and more energy on yourself. That way, if they do come back -- solid, remorseful, committed, and deserving of a chance -- you will be slightly more prepared to tackle the next uphill battle.

Have a wonderful day, goddesses. Let's all go out and treat ourselves the way we know we deserve to be treated, shall we?

Blu


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I have to admit that I probably would have went darker a lot sooner if A: he wasnt paying for EVERYTHING. And continues to do so. Being a SAHM without a pot to p... in is a hard pill. Especially when you spent your entire adult life thus far caring for your family. B: If he hadnt been soooo nice and NORMAL during conversations and interactions after OW left. Him reaching out to me. Him flirting. Noticing my changes and liking them even though they were for me. (On that note one of the last times we had sex he made mention of how thin I was. Almost too thin... I laughed in his face. Said "F you I look f'ing amazing" and continued what I was doing.) Lol You dont get to harass me for my mommy tummy for 14 years then tell me I'm too skinny.

I KNOW I was facilitating cake eating at the worst and compartmentalization at the best for him. I never wanted to be jealous, vindictive or spiteful. I have the OW entire name, car info and work info and I have never looked her up. There have been moments of temptation but I also know that nothing I learn of her will help me in any way. She could be beautiful, but I am too.(Recent post bomb drop realization) Yes I bet money she's a lot younger. Well people think I'm my kids college sister all the time. So she has a job...so do monkeys. And I am actively building a business. One of my 180's is house keeping. Very 1950's I know but I was slack. I enjoy the pride of a clean house now more than ever before. I have actually had the Ah Ha moment of knowing how he's felt coming home to a mess. It [censored]. BUT no its no reason to have an affair and run away.

I've had to find my self. Respect and otherwise. Seeing me and realizing she's pretty bad a$$. I didnt give up my youth. I CHOSE to raise my kids. The universe or whatever you call it put me on this path because I am strong enough to handle it and him. Blu you are right, mistakes aside I am the goddess prize and the better greener grass. He WILL realize this eventually. I will keep my distance and keep being me. IF he seriously wants to be with me he knows where I live.


Me: 36 H: 37
M: 16 T: 17
Kids: S15 D14 D11
BD: July '18
OW confirmed Nov '18 (he told me)
H moved out Jan '19
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Originally Posted by Goddess8
I have to admit that I probably would have went darker a lot sooner if A: he wasnt paying for EVERYTHING. And continues to do so. Being a SAHM without a pot to p... in is a hard pill. Especially when you spent your entire adult life thus far caring for your family. B: If he hadnt been soooo nice and NORMAL during conversations and interactions


Big hugs here. I only worked when I put H through professional school. And mine is paying for everything AS HE SHOULD. I'm over being scared of my future and I'm over feeling like his crumbs are enough.

How is it going so far on going dark?


ME47 XH44, S28 S24 S19

8/17-BD
IHS: 1/17-2/19
D FILED (ME): 7/19
D FINAL: 10/20
M23 T25
OW CONFIRMED: 01/21

Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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