Thanks anotherstander, that all makes sense. I did attempt to find a separation counselor before I read your post but didn’t have any luck so I will leave it up to her.
I wouldn't go to a separation counselor. That's just weird to me and I think a lot of LBS will "do anything" to get the WAS back. That attitude doesn't serve the LBS well though.
I wouldn't go telling her you want to work on the marriage either - she already knows that right? So change it up IMO.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I wouldn't go to a separation counselor. That's just weird to me and I think a lot of LBS will "do anything" to get the WAS back. That attitude doesn't serve the LBS well though.
I wouldn't go telling her you want to work on the marriage either - she already knows that right? So change it up IMO.
I think you're right, I need to change it up.
Not much has changed in the sitch - we've been civil and hadn't talked more about moving out. Wife started IC yesterday with a young married female counselor. Wife said she likes her and is going to continue to see her. I'm sure this isn't going to help the sitch as wife will only tell her of all the lonely times and look for conformation that she's making the right decision which I'm sure the IC will do.
Someone asked me "why do you want to be with someone who has made it clear that they don't want to be with you?" This made me really stop and think. The obvious answer is that I love my wife and child, think we could be a happy successful family if she would forgive and give me a chance to make her happy. But how long am I going to hold out?
The GAL concept is interesting - some of the problems in my marriage stem from me having too much of a life outside of the family. For me, I think GAL is going to be me moving toward a life without my wife as my wife. I'm tired of feeling sad, hurt, and guilty for not being the husband I could be. I can't live in the past mistakes, only improve for the future.
I told my wife this morning that I'm open to seperation counseling and a "nesting seperation". This is where we get a seperate place and take turns living in the old family home with daughter. This gives us equal time with our daughter and does not make it look like one of us is the bad person or abondoning her. I think this is the most fair if she wants seperation. I'm sure she will discuss with her IC.
Not sure if this is in line with DB but basically I'm tired of waiting in limbo for her to push me out of the house, file, etc. I want to take back some control of my life and make it clear that I'm moving on with my life, with or without her. She's not going to be the one deciding everything.
Wife and I had a couple of long talks last night after me bringing up "nesting separation" and using a separation counselor yesterday morning. I had sent her a couple of articles on the benefits of nesting. I have a job interview in July that if successful will require me to attend training for 6 weeks and then I will be traveling a lot. She stated that if I get the job I won't be around much and it would make more sense for both of us to just stay in the house rather than having an additional place that isn't getting used much. This was my suggestion all along but somehow she now seems agreeable to it. Not sure why.
I also told her that I have been having some good introspection and I am "ready to move on". That's not entirely true and I didn't mean for it to come out that way. After I said that she became obviously upset and said something to the effect of "lets get things rolling then, you're ready, I'm ready, etc." Not sure why she was upset as this is what she wants but we then talked about splitting finances, bills, etc while living together. The conversation got interrupted by daughter coming inside from playing.
After daughter went to bed we continued the conversation. I stated that "I'm ready to move on" came out wrong and that I'm just trying do what's best in a difficult situation and not be selfish by respecting her choice while making decisions on what's best for our daughter. We talked for a while about what the future may look like, near term and after moving. It was a good exercise on detaching as I was able to speak mostly matter-of-factly on the in-house separation and what co-parenting will look like after divorce. Of course she became defensive at times and brought up a few marriage problems while teary eyed, I did my best to validate and not argue with her perception.
Not sure if this is progress or not, and I know I shouldn't be trying to analyse every conversation. The good news is I'm able to talk with her about our futures after a potential divorce and not feel totally lost and hurt, a small step toward detachment but I'm still very far away from that. Just taking it day by day.
1) No R talks mean NO R talks. Why would you bring up nesting? That is her thing. Rule #2 after NO R TALKS, is DO NOT DO THE WAS's dirty work for them! Do not start R talks unless you like having your teeth kicked in. If she starts one you listen...validate....and then end it as soon as you can. "We will need to finish this later, I have to.......<insert something you need to go do>. If she asks questions: "So have you considered the nesting suggestion?" You answer like this: "I need more time to consider everything, there is a lot to process."
2) Nesting never works. Read the sitches here that have tried it. The LBS ends up miserable. Jay is going through it right now. Nesting causes more problems then it solves. She wants to walk away, your position should be: "I can't stop you from leaving and I won't try. But I am not going anywhere."
3) Why would you back down from your statement on being ready? So she got upset. BOO HOO. Walkaways do this all the time. "I want out." "Ok, I can't stop you. I will move on." "Wait! What? You aren't sad, crying, begging, pleading? When you behave in ways the WAS doesn't anticipate sometimes they don't like it. That is why DBing is so effective!! It makes you behave in ways they don't expect. If you read sitches where people handled BD properly out of the gate, those sitches have a high % of Ring. You should not have backed down from it. The fact is you are ready to move on, because the alternative is NOT move on. How is that a thing? Not moving on? What are you going to start talking to yourself, eating out of dumpsters and sleeping on park benches? What does NOT moving on look like? It isn't really even an option.
4) Stop trying to gauge progress. Progress is consistent behavior where she is trying to R over a long period of time. Being okay with you being away so much is not progress! Even if it made her back down from nesting. But the fact that you have thermometer out all the time taking her temperature is not DBing. It is not not asserting pressure. It IS a subtle form of pursuit. "I said this, she reacted this way...." "I said that, she reacted that way....." It is like be observed from above all the time. And WASs will rebel against that. And this is why starting R talks, and engaging in them if she does, is a bad idea. Because it nets you nothing.
Stop talking. Start acting. ACTION....not words. And the best thing you can do is NOT start R talks. Not engage in them. And certainly do not entertain her hairbrained schemes.....like nesting.
Not sure what articles you've read on the benefits of nesting, but they are bunk. Sorry to be blunt. Anyone that writes a pro-nesting article either is clueless, or is not anti-divorce.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I had sent her a couple of articles on the benefits of nesting.
DON'T DO THE WORK FOR HER. Your job is to give her time and space. If she wants S or D then fine, let her deal with that. NOT YOU.
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I also told her that I have been having some good introspection and I am "ready to move on".
Really. So you got BD'd in mid-May and here you are 3 weeks later ready to move on and split. You think you might be rushing things just a teeny bit? Or trying to get some kind of reaction out of W? A lot of people do this, they try to "nice" their spouse back through begging, pleading, negotiating and gift-giving and when it doesn't work they resort to trying to "mean" them back by threats of S or D or being "ready to move on". That doesn't work either, so then usually it's back to begging and pleading.
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After I said that she became obviously upset and said something to the effect of "lets get things rolling then, you're ready, I'm ready, etc." Not sure why she was upset as this is what she wants
She's upset because you're applying pressure. Whether you are begging to get back together or insisting it's time to split it is STILL a relationship talk and it is STILL pressure. Remove all pressure!
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I stated that "I'm ready to move on" came out wrong and that I'm just trying do what's best in a difficult situation and not be selfish by respecting her choice while making decisions on what's best for our daughter. We talked for a while about what the future may look like, near term and after moving. It was a good exercise on detaching as I was able to speak mostly matter-of-factly on the in-house separation and what co-parenting will look like after divorce.
I think maybe you misunderstand detachment. Detachment is not initiating convos like that AT ALL.
If you're truly ready to move on it will be important to show rather than tell. Now if you don't show her that you are moving on then you're doing the same as her and just throwing out words b/c you're hurt.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thanks for the advice guys. I thought I was applying some techniques out of the DR book by trying different approaches and seeing the reaction to guage progress. True I'm not ready to move on but I am able to see the posibility of life without being married so I think that's a start. I didn't see my words/actions as pursuit but can see how it might be a form of pressure. I'm just a little worried that her seeing a IC is going to accerlate things when her decisions and feelings are going to be vaildated, especially with only one side of the story.
You can't control that. So you have to let it go to be what ever it is. She may decide to follow through. She may not. There are many varied things that are influencing her. One may or may not be this IC.
One of the things we LBSs struggle with the most is giving up control of things we can't control. She is going to see this IC whether you like it or not. Now she may stop seeing the IC if she doesn't like it. But that is outside of your control.
Focus on what YOU can control, and that is you. The worst thing you can do is to DB while looking over your shoulder to see if she is noticing. And if she is noticing how she is reacting.
Have you heard the analogy of the picnic? Where you are having a picnic. By yourself. Your W may or may not join you. May or may not even notice you are having a picnic. But you don't care, because you are enjoying your own picnic.
I wrote this post to another poster a while back that was struggling with this concept. You can find the original here:
"Should I start eating or wait for her? Is she coming? Is that her? No that was a tree limb blowing in the breeze. Maybe she will come from the other direction. No I don't see her over there either. Okay I guess I will eat this sandwich. Boy this sandwich would taste so much better if she was sitting on this blanket next to me. Is that her? Nope, Bummer. I guess I will have to eat these cupcakes without her. Shucks, I brought 2, one for each of us."
Your picnic is centered around her........not you.
Detachment is about not reacting emotionally to anything she says or does. It takes time. It takes effort. But once you achieve it the relief is incredible, and the effects on her can be huge.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
