Why can't your daughter stay in the house with you?
My wife is the primary caretaker and attorney said our local judges will always order the child stays with primary caretaker (especially if it is the mother) during a court ordered separation.
Because we've seen it before where the guy moved out and it just amped up his WAW's disrespect for him. Remember you are trying to get her to respect you now. Even when she doesn't like you. Make her respect you. Tucking your tail and leaving does that how?
You're buddy got lucky. Listen to the coach.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Because we've seen it before where the guy moved out and it just amped up his WAW's disrespect for him. Remember you are trying to get her to respect you now. Even when she doesn't like you. Make her respect you. Tucking your tail and leaving does that how?
You're buddy got lucky. Listen to the coach.
I’ve always worn the pants in the marriage. I don’t think there’s a lack of respect from her, if anything I didn’t show enough respect to her a lot of times. I’m not trying to argue, I’m just not sure if this is the sword to fall on with more of the same behavior that pushed her away.
Because we've seen it before where the guy moved out and it just amped up his WAW's disrespect for him. Remember you are trying to get her to respect you now. Even when she doesn't like you. Make her respect you. Tucking your tail and leaving does that how?
You're buddy got lucky. Listen to the coach.
I’ve always worn the pants in the marriage. I don’t think there’s a lack of respect from her, if anything I didn’t show enough respect to her a lot of times. I’m not trying to argue, I’m just not sure if this is the sword to fall on with more of the same behavior that pushed her away.
Dad, we tell posters here what works. What you do is entirely up to you. However, DBing is about doing what is counter-intuitive. One thing I would do when I started DBing was to think what my instincts told me, and then do the opposite. I mean if you are just going to do what comes naturally then why do you need this site? Or DBing? Or advice based on all of that?
Wives don't D men they are attracted to. And they aren't attracted to men they don't respect. So believe it or not it is about respect. I mean how is all of this a show of respect on her part?!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
And a judge isnt going to order your daughter to stay with the mom. You are a parent, you have equal rights to your daughter. Custody is always 50 50 unless there is abuse. Leaving your daughter is not a good idea. Its not more stable for you to leave her. Its more stable for you to be in her life and live with her.
Like Steve said, your W is acting like this because she lost respect for you. Its all about respect. My EXWW wouldnt have cheated on me with her boss who a foot shorter than her, bald and 20 years older if she respected me.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Ok, got it. Thanks Steve. Next question, what to do about about blossoming emotional affair? OM is in same industry, lives 1500 miles away. Gives her lots of praise about her job performance, lots of small talk about weekend plans, traveling, etc. Wife suggests FaceTime with wine to discuss work stuff. Great. Obviously she likes the attention and praise that she wasn’t getting from me and it hurts. Tough to compete with as I can’t do any of that now. She plays the victim to her family and friends about how she gave everything to our marriage and I just wouldn’t change and she’s not the “bad guy”. Think they might have a different opinion if they knew what she was doing.
Remember when you were a kid. And someone told you not do something. "Don't go into that room." "Stay out of the cookies." "Don't watch that movie." It made you want to do it more than ever, didn't it?
WAWs are like rebellious teenagers. The minute you make something taboo, or tell them not to do it, or show displeasure at it the more she will want to do it. Besides, this guy is not your problem. We tend to focus on the OM. Your problem is trying to regain respect, and therefore attraction from your W. And you do that by leaving her alone, giving her space, and foscusing on yourself, your GAL, your detachment, your 180s. Leave her to figure her stuff out.
The more you try to control her the more she will want to do things you don't approve of. You have to back off and leave her alone. As hard as that is to do.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Can you guys explain what is so disadvantageous about me moving out?
The family home is the castle. The marital bed is the throne. Cede either to your W and she will have even less respect for you. To make matters worse, she may quickly have an OM visiting and doing overnights in YOUR house sleeping in YOUR bed. Or she may very well move OM right in. We've seen it happen before. How would you like going to your house to pick up your kids and having OM answer the door in pajamas with a drink in his hand? I really hope you have more respect for yourself than that. If she can't stand you then fine, SHE can move out. That's her choice to make.
Also the family home is the "safe place" the kids need during this rough time. You will have to be their anchor because your W will probably be a loose cannon for a while. So be their anchor in their safe place.
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Although she thinks I don’t do enough around the house I think she’s in for a rude awakening on her own.
It is a classic LBS mistake to move out thinking it will "wake her up". I assure you that is not how it will play out. She will like having you gone, but at the same time she will resent that you are still not doing enough. She will expect you to mow, fix things, etc. all while she plays house with someone else.
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Also, one of my buddies was 2 weeks from his divorce being finalized when he reconciled, he said him moving out and them being apart made them realize what they had. Sample of 1 I know.
I'm sure that's true, but I've been here a long time and I've never seen it play out that way. More often that not it backfires.
Thanks for all the advice - here's an update, or really just some journaling:
Weekend was as expected, we ended up doing separate activities with my daughter. I thought I was maybe making some headway as I heard her vacillating a little to a friend about the D decision on Friday. I may have made a mistake that evening - my dad had sent a long email to the both of us earlier that day - it was heartfelt and supportive for the both of us but it was obvious that both he and my mom are hurting, my mom has some health problems and news of the D hasn't helped. That really got to me, I ended up having some drinks that evening and talking to an old friend that I've lost contact with over the years - I made plans to visit him and my parents and after a brief consultation with the wife I bought a plane ticket for Saturday, felt I really needed to get away and need some support. I could tell she was upset but said it was fine. The next morning I realized it was a rash decision so I canceled the ticket, decided to stay and spend time with my daughter.
Wife asked me last night if I'd looked any more at moving out. I stated that I don't see moving out as beneficial for our daughter and that I will end up looking like I'm abandoning her regardless of how we explain it. She stated that we need to provide a united front and explain to her that it's a mutual decision - I said "so you want me to lie to her?" This set her off - she says we can't remain in the house together due to setting a bad example of marriage to our daughter. She used the example of me planning to leave on Saturday and from the previous weekend when I stayed at a friends house after going out for the evening - I was out GAL and she was upset that I didn't inform her exactly where and what I was doing and she didn't have an explanation for why I wasn't home.
I've done my best not to start any R conversations or plead, etc. but when she brings up the future I've also made it clear that I'm not giving up on the marriage and am making improvements for myself. This seems to anger her - she feels I gave up on the marriage years ago and I should be agreeing with everything she wants. She actually wants me to file for divorce. She's worried about how she appears to our family and friends, that she's the "bad guy" for wanting out when she deserves more and I haven't met her needs. This really is mostly my fault but I cant give up on her and our family. I know I could make her happy if she could forgive. She says she forgives me but can't be married to me - then goes on to bring up ways in which I've hurt her. She's rewriting the past a bit by only remembering the bad times. I haven't argued and have validated but then she says I'm shaming her. She says she changed herself to provide what she thought I wanted, she gave up on affection and intimacy, cooked, cleaned and provided etc. while giving me my space for hobbies. The thing is that's not what I wanted - I want the same things she does we just lost our connection along the way and haven't been able to get it back. She's also been in to a lot of self help stuff lately, Ted talks, empowering women to deserve love, etc.
Since we can't decide on a way forward she wants to meet with a separation counselor to help us make decisions about living arrangements, how to tell our daughter and co-parent, etc. I've agreed to do this,just not sure how to find the correct person. Still flailing and reeling here, trying my best to DB.
I made plans to visit him and my parents and after a brief consultation with the wife I bought a plane ticket for Saturday, felt I really needed to get away and need some support. I could tell she was upset but said it was fine. The next morning I realized it was a rash decision so I canceled the ticket, decided to stay and spend time with my daughter.
I understand you're going through a lot of crazy emotions right now but try to avoid drinking and making hasty decisions because inconsistency and vacillation are just going to make things worse. You need to be the rock right now.
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Wife asked me last night if I'd looked any more at moving out. I stated that I don't see moving out as beneficial for our daughter and that I will end up looking like I'm abandoning her regardless of how we explain it.
There is no need to make excuses, just tell her you thought about it and you're definitely, 100% not moving out. Period. Tell her if she chooses to move out then that's her decision. Stand strong and firm.
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She used the example of me planning to leave on Saturday and from the previous weekend when I stayed at a friends house after going out for the evening - I was out GAL and she was upset that I didn't inform her exactly where and what I was doing and she didn't have an explanation for why I wasn't home.
A lot of LBS's get tripped up on this, they think GAL means just disappear and don't tell your W anything. If you are under the same roof and sharing parental responsibilities then don't just disappear, that is very disrespectful. You don't have to give her all the details but do let her know if you make plans to do something so she knows she has to watch D.
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She actually wants me to file for divorce. She's worried about how she appears to our family and friends, that she's the "bad guy" for wanting out when she deserves more and I haven't met her needs.
"W, I do not want a divorce. I want to work on the M with you. But I understand that is not what you want and that you wish to pursue D. I will not try to stop you, I will respect your wishes. But don't ask me to do the work for you, I most certainly will not as it is not what I want."
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I know I could make her happy if she could forgive. She says she forgives me but can't be married to me - then goes on to bring up ways in which I've hurt her. She's rewriting the past a bit by only remembering the bad times.
Very typical. But that is the way she sees things now so you have to be mindful of that. She's not lying or making it up, this really is how she remembers things. It will change with time.
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Since we can't decide on a way forward she wants to meet with a separation counselor to help us make decisions about living arrangements, how to tell our daughter and co-parent, etc. I've agreed to do this,just not sure how to find the correct person.
Again, DON'T DO THE WORK FOR HER. If she wants to meet with a separation counselor that's fine but SHE needs to set it up, not you.
