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Hello Ben

Do I have this right? You and W have the same IC, who is also your MC? Sometimes that is three different people, maybe most times. Interesting when one person hears all.

From what you’ve said, W seems to enjoy her sessions, she may even be responding well.

A little assurance for you. No one thing is going to “fix” this situation or her, and no one thing is going to destroy it or push her away.


There is a lot of advice about no manipulation; that is for you. Letting go and leaving the healing to the MLCer and fate is a good idea when the LBS is just starting out and very attached. One doesn’t want the responsibility of one’s action causing a worst situation. As I said, this is for you and to find detachment.

Do more of what does works and less of what doesn’t. There is a certain amount of trail and error in all this. If something is getting good results - great. If it doesn’t work, back off, and don’t try it again for a good long while. The latter case usually just causes the MLCer to take longer getting through whatever they are working on.

One does attempt to keep pressures minimized as an emotional person doesn’t react well to more pressure - they got enough of their own.

Asking her a few questions during counselling or even elsewhere is not manipulative, the two of you are just talking. The problem is for you, the timing. It would be better if detachment was more full, even into some indifference. Otherwise these conversations might reinforce certain feelings and ideas within you, which will spin you around.

I would suspect you are rather worried about her answers and her reaction, and I would not blame you at all. That is a pretty reasonable response considering when you are in all this.

Assurance number two: If you ask questions and she was to blow up and this goes sideways - not your fault. She is on her path, she has certain hills and valleys she needs to travel through. She can’t avoid them, and your asking might nudge her forward a bit. Consider it more like fate and she would have gotten there at some point.

The IC/MC is a professional, who speaks with both of you separate and together. Face to face. His suggestion of asking a question might actually be for you. For your growth and healing. I am guessing you find him to be a nice guy, competent, and helpful. So it is probably wise to listen to his advice.

Be honest and sincere with W. Remain detached. You are further along than you realize. Keep your emotions in check, do not let them get out of control, or control you.

Jealousy is a powerful emotion, and hard to get a grip on. It is best to keep that controlled during discussions.

You know your situation best. You are there and living it. Do you feel she is in MLC?

I feel this is more towards a transition or the very beginning of MLC. Time will tell.

Either way, your W is wanting to go to therapy, to movies, talk, still living at home, etc... Respond as she is.

I say, (as long as you’re strong enough) listen to the MC, ask your questions, listen to W, and see where this goes. Stay calm, nonjudgemental, and polite.

The focus is still on you. Your healing. Her answers or lack of them will tell you something. You keep moving forward.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Hello DnJ,

Our MC asked to see us separate so he could see if there are things we donīt want to say in front of each other. He asked both of us separately if we wanted to have more IC with him but both said we prefer going together and that one time was enough for now.

Thank you for your advice, it all really makes sense.

I doubt if I found out there had been EA or PA that I would show any jealousy in front of her. But on the other hand, I have never been cheated on before so I might have an unexpected reaction. However, I would be very surprised if she admitted to that. The surprise would be more so over her honesty than the cheating itself. She has everything to lose and has no way of maintaining the lifestyle she wants should she lose me(at the moment at least). Weīre talking a complete flip from living in luxury to renting a small room out in the suburbs. I canīt see her willing to risk all that and be honest with me. I just feel if she would have cheated, she would be too afraid of my reaction to admit it.

I donīt know what else it could be if not MLC. Is transition better than MLC? This being the beginning of MLC scares me to say the least. This has been difficult enough as is, if this was just a teaser I fear whatīs to come.

Ok, I will ask the questions tomorrow. Iīll let you know how it goes! And you are absolutely right, the MC is very good at taking hints and can handle both of us well it feels like.


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Joined: May 2019
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Something happened today. We had a R talk. I know itīs not supposed to happen but I couldnīt help it.

We decided to try a new restaurant that opened next to us instead of making food at home. When we ordered the food I sensed tension for the first time in weeks. She looked unhappy and bored, almost depressed as she sat there in front of me. I didnīt want to initiate a conversation which I hadnīt in a long time now but I felt I had to say something this time.

Me: Are you ok?
W: Yes, why? (acting like nothing)
Me: You seem tensed
W: Itīs nothing, I thought to myself that Iīm not gonna initiate a conversation this time, letīs see how long it takes until he says something. Itīs always me who initiates conversations! And now when Iīm tired and not saying anything, you think Iīm being weird! (she was getting frustrated).

Me: Iīm sorry you think that about me. I did not think you are weird at all. Something seemed to be bothering you so I asked. This is also to give you the chance to let me know if something is on your mind.

When I said this she calmed down, but I could still sense there was something on her mind. I know her so well and know how terrible she is to initiate certain conversations out of fear that they might ruin the mood. But I still asked -

Me: Do you still want to move out?
W: I donīt know. Or, no - I donīt want to move out. Itīs scary to think about. But I donīt know what else we can do. Nothing has changed these past weeks. No ups or downs, just us being together at home. So perhaps if I get to experience living alone I might realize what Iīm missing. But I think only for a month(we had previously talked about her moving out for 2-3 months). And we should still see each other during that month! I donīt know if that will help but at least itīs a new approach.

I thought of what she said, then thought of this forum. Believe nothing she says and 50% of what she does? So what lie is this? Could she be having an EA and see this as a opportunity to evolve to PA? Am I thinking the worst possible scenario by thinking that? I thought of something else I read, that W donīt move out for space, they move out to sleep with other men. So what is the right thing to do here? Or could she be telling the truth?

She also knows that by moving out for just a month, she would need me to pay for the apartment that month since she canīt afford it. Eventually she has to move back and somehow figure out the next to impossible task of finding her own apartment(again, this is very difficult in the city we live in). She then asks me how I feel about this. I paus for a few seconds -

Me: I feel that I donīt want to be with someone who does not want to be with me
She quickly interrupts and raises her voice slightly: Thatīs not where I am!! I am hoping we will work this out! I just donīt know when!
Me: Of course not, there is no timeline to this.
W: That is why Iīm suggesting me moving out. It just feels like thatīs the only thing that might work to wake me up from this.
Me: Maybe, Iīm not sure itīs that easy though.
W: But thatīs how Iīve always worked. If I canīt have something, I will miss it and want it.

She then starts asking about MLC since she has googled and we talk about it for a few minutes. I mention to her that Iīm surprised she is so interested in the subject. She responds "itīs so interesting to listen to you since you always read and learn so much about everything. Since she already knew so much, I felt I can say a bit more than Iīm supposed to. So I add "Of all the things Iīve read, Iīve yet to read about anyone moving out and things working out because of that".

I should add, I am completely calm during this conversation. She is usually calm as well but seems slightly emotional which I rarely see from her. I think to myself that itīs a bit weird to discuss these things with her so I say "Perhaps we should save the rest for MC tomorrow".

W: Yeah


The rest of the evening was tension free. We watched our favorite show when we came home, laughed and I could tell she seemed more comfortable.

So as you can read from all this, I did a lot of things Iīm not supposed to based on what Iīve learned so far. Was this bad? Didnīt feel wrong?


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 288
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Should I have posted this in the Newcomers forum? Seems like there are much more replies there. Does anyone know if it is possible to move it?


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Joined: Jan 2018
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Good Morning Ben

How did MC go?

Yes, newcomers has more action, and more replies.

There is a sticky thread (the blue ones at the top of the list) with information on how to contact the moderators. Job or Cadet should be able to move your thread.

Hope you’re having a great day.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Good Morning Ben

How did MC go?

Yes, newcomers has more action, and more replies.

There is a sticky thread (the blue ones at the top of the list) with information on how to contact the moderators. Job or Cadet should be able to move your thread.

Hope you’re having a great day.

DnJ



Good morning DnJ,

Well, unfortunately she didnīt tell the truth. The MC set it up so that he asked if we have any questions for each other so far. I then said that this have been on my mind a while ago and even though I donīt think about it as much, itīs still something I would need to know the answer to if we are to have trust for each other.

When I first asked about it, she got frustrated and her first comment was "So?". I donīt rememeber exactly what the MC said but he somehow defused the situation. She then answered that she archived those photos because she didnīt want to see them. At the time there was so much tension between us it bothered her to even be in the same room as me. She pointed to the fact that they are there now to which I answered "isnīt that only because I noticed and asked you about it". She couldnīt answer that

Me: So, let me just repeat that. Even though those pics arenīt in your feed, you have to go to your profile and scroll down a but to see them, you archived them so you wouldnīt see them?
W: Yes
Me: And it happened three times and only on weekends when you are going out?
W: I suppose, just a coincidence(sheīs getting frustrated)
Me: So what about Facebook? Why did you remove them from there?
W: I didnīt remove pics from there?
Me: If I go to your Facebook now, none of our wedding photos are there. The entire wedding album is gone.
W: Iīve changed privacy settings so only I can see them.

I knew now that if I kept pushing she would have exploded. She was tensing up and getting very defensive. So she doesnīt mind seeing the wedding photos on Facebook but wants no one else to see them. But on Instagram, it bothers her so much to see those photos so she archived them. But I asked the next question.

Me: Have you, during these past few months since this started, had any communication with anyone on social media or other platforms, that would upset me
W: No, I donīt think so. Have you?
Me: Of course not.
Me: When you have been out, have you made an effort to hide the fact that you are married?
W: No
Me: Have you ever flirted with anyone during this period?
W: No
Me: Have you felt the desire to flirt with anyone?
W: No

So I let it go. I canīt prove she is telling lies but her reasons sounded so far fetched. I also remembered that a few weeks ago she archived another photo of us on holiday but kept the wedding photos on Instagram. This happened when there was no tension between us so not sure how she would answer that if I asked.

The MC then suggested the couples weekend thing and she sounded positive towards going although she didnīt want to decide then. When we left the session she wanted to "hug it out" so we did. Not sure if this was guilt from cleary being caught in lies or knowing Iīm on to her.

So this hasnīt really helped. I donīt know how I can trust her after this altough I sort of expected her not to be honest as I mentioend.

Our next session is already on Monday so weīll see how that goes. I just received my copy of the DB book today so Iīm reading the first few pages now.

Tried messaging Job and Cadet but it just says "private topics disabled" so doesnīt seem like I can contact them. Iīll see if I can figure out another way.


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Joined: Jan 2000
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I have moved your thread to Newcomers for you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted by job
I have moved your thread to Newcomers for you.


Thank you very much!


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Joined: Feb 2018
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Ben just caught up on your sitch three quick observations:

1st, brace yourself for the other shoe to drop. I'm sensing someone else in the picture from her behavior. Just keep it in mind and be ready if and when the truth comes to light.

2nd, it appears as if she is looking for reasons to not stay. They whole "I have to initiate conversations" smacks of it. Understand that nothing you do will be good enough. If you initiate conversations she'll accuse you of never shutting up and smothering her. You can't win so don't try. So not react emotionally to these kinds of things. Detachment is key. Listen and validate.

3rd, you, like me, thought your money would be your saving Grace. But do you really want her to stay just because you're wealthy? Just because she wouldn't have what she has without you? That would be terrible in 30 testers to look back and realize she stuck with you all this time because of your money.

Last edited by Steve85; 05/24/19 06:56 PM.

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Originally Posted by Steve85
Ben just caught up on your sitch three quick observations:

1st, brace yourself for the other shoe to drop. I'm sensing someone else in the picture from her behavior. Just keep it in mind and be ready if and when the truth comes to light.

2nd, it appears as if she is looking for reasons to not stay. They whole "I have to initiate conversations" smacks of it. Understand that nothing you do will be good enough. If you initiate conversations she'll accuse you of never shutting up and smothering her. You can't win so don't try. So not react emotionally to these kinds of things. Detachment is key. Listen and validate.

3rd, you, like me, thought your money would be your saving Grace. But do you really want her to stay just because you're wealthy? Just because she wouldn't have what she has without you? That would be terrible in 30 testers to look back and realize she stuck with you all this time because of your money.



Thank you for your reply, Steve!

I doubt there could be someone else in the picture simply because I donīt know how she would be able to have any sort of affair. She never comes home late from work, she never takes her phone to the bathroom or anything like that. She leaves both phone and laptop in the livingroom if she goes to shower so I would have plenty of time to go through it if I wanted to. We still sleep in the same bed, naked every night, If there would be someone else it would have to be a ONS.

Her typical MLC behaviour, going out to party every weekend, working out and eating healthy, etc etc have all toned down a lot since end of April. She still has plans with her friends almost every Saturday but all other nights she seems to want to spend with me. But could be because her friends are busy of course and all she has is me then. GAL has proven to be quite difficult for me since I have my dog that I donīt want to leave alone for more than a few hours. But I still excercise twice a day, I meet my friends and family on Saturdayīs when she is busy and on Sundayīs I play squash with a friend of mine while sheīs usually at home. Thatīs as good as I can do. If it wasnīt for the dog, I would probably go on holiday with friends of mine.

Her saying that I donīt initiate conversations was actually the first negative thing she has said to me in months, in fact since our first mini BD back in early February. Since then weīve pretty much been the same as we always are except for the lack of intimacy. I honestly donīt think she would accuse me of smothering her if I initiated conversations. Thatīs not the vibe we have between us(not at the moment at least), When things were good between us, one of the things she could complain about was that I could become introverted at times so even though it is not recommended here, she seems to respond well to our conversations. But thatīs only if they are about something that isnīt serious. I would normally never have R talks with her as that would create anxiety but itīs become a thing now that we talk about midlife crisis whenever we go to dinners. She is very interested in the subject and has a lot to say about it. Sheīs now reading a book that was recommended by our MC about relationships and how our childhood can affect that.

Regarding money, no thatīs absolutely not what I want! Thatīs what I wrote early on as well. I wish she had family that lived in the same city or at least the same country. If she had the option to move out and still lived with me, at least I would know itīs because she really wants to make this to work. Now, I will always have the suspicion that she has no other choice. But thatīs also why Iīm so sad that this is happening. She supported me when I lost everything and we had to move into a tiny one bedroom apartment. I donīt know what I would have done without her during that time. These days, I am very successful in my work. I work with internationally famous people and I am well known for what I do. If our relationship ends and I have to find a new one, Iīm afraid I would always have doubts whether or not she is with me for me or for my money and to hang out with celebrities.


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
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