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Thank you, Gerda! I love the way you see things. I suppose you are right, our lingering feelings despite what we've been been put through, does suggest that unconditional love is a real thing. Maybe not something that everyone is capable of, but that it is indeed a real thing. And obviously that is in reference to romantic love, I think we all know it exists in the relationships we have with our children.

I loved reading Amy Cs posts. To the point that I copied and pasted them to a word doc so that I could reread them without having to hunt them down. I also really liked reading Stayed's and her husbands posts. Have you read those? Her husbands comments are very enlightening, especially after reading what they went through. There is also another former MLCer that posted quite a bit on another forum. She was danjef34. She shared quite a bit.

A bit of journaling after mothers day. Mother's day was my weekend with the kids, but of course I took them to Ws house to let them spend some time together for mothers day. She wanted them to make her brunch so the day before I took the kids to the grocery store to pick up the stuff, and took them to the mall to get a gift for her...and to buy her flowers. The next morning when I took them over to her house, I was unsure whether I should stay with them or just drop them off to spend time with her. I had plans to take them with me to my moms after so if I just dropped them off it would only be for a couple of hours. So, I asked her if she wanted me to just drop them off since I didn't want to interfere with her time with them. She said if I didn't mind dropping them off. Then she paused and followed up with that I could stay if i wanted to. That wasn't really the invitation I was looking for so I decided it probably best to leave. I was then putting on my shoes when she offered me coffee...so I ended up staying. It was kind of weird. She is pleasant enough around me, but we just seem so distant. She feels like someone I barely know, not a person I spent 20 years of my life with and was my best friend and lover. Eventually time was over and we left for my moms.

When I got to my moms house, she shared with me that W had texted her a nice mothers day message. I was surprised at this. W has not contacted my family for anything pretty much since BD. W was like a daughter to my mom, and like a sister to my sisters. Lots of love all around. After BD, W pretty much stopped talking to them. She didn't ignor them or be rude to them, just kind of stopped reaching out to them for anything. My mom reached out to her once early on. It was a loving and motherly message, and Ws reply to it almost read like a goodbye. I have always loved and respected you and despite what happens...yada yada...that kind of reply. Well, Ws mothers day message said "I learned so much on how I want to raise S and D from watching you. I respect you so much as a mother and grandmother. I hope you get spoiled today, you deserve it. Happy mothers day!" Then, my mom replied with " Oh (Ws name), thank you and I love you. You have taught me a lot as well - we've learned from each other. Happy mothers day to the beautiful mother of my sweet grandbabies! (they will always be grand "babies" to me!" Then wife followed up with "I love you, enjoy the day!"

This back and forth was pretty surprising to me. I have not heard W say I love you to anyone but our kids for quite some time. Possibly a couple of years. For it to be to my mom. And for her to send such a nice message to my mom who she hasn't talked to in quite some time...and not as a reply. W initiated that. I don't even know what to make of that...so I file it away. No expectations...GAL, detach.

Anyways...I hope all of you are doing ok today. Its a beautiful day in TX. Let me know if you have any feedback, but otherwise just journaling a bit.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Sjohn6

I don’t know what to make of that

But just wanted to stop by and say hello

I can tell you that after we have gone through what we have

I find it hard to say ILY too

Glad you are doing well


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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Thank you, Gordie. Hello to you as well!!

You know, I didn't even think about it, but I also have a hard time saying ILY. Easy to say it to my kids, but not to anyone else. I guess the words mean a lot more to me know so I'm a bit hesitant to just throw them out there like a greeting.

I hope you are doing well, too.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Happy Father’s Day sjohns

Hope S15 and D13 made you breakfast in bed. smile

Enjoy the day my friend.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Looks like DnJ and I are making the same rounds to our favorite dads!

Happy Father's Day to a man whose kind heart beams out through these few lines on these threads. It is clear you are a good man, a loving father, a kind kind soul. Thank you for reminding me that such a thing is possible!


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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oh my gosh, a year since I last went to your thread! How are you?! I am leaving poem gifts today... Happy Father's Day to a light in the dark!

Father's Song
Gregory Orr

Yesterday, against admonishment,
my daughter balanced on the couch back,
fell and cut her mouth.

Because I saw it happen I knew
she was not hurt, and yet
a child's blood so red
it stops a father's heart.

My daughter cried her tears;
I held some ice
against her lip.
That was the end of it.

Round and round: bow and kiss.
I try to teach her caution;
she tries to teach me risk.


Last edited by Gerda; 06/22/20 02:48 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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sjohns6 Offline OP
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Gerda, it was so nice to see your fathers day message to me just now. I'm so sorry I missed it earlier. I pop in from time to time to catch up on everyone's situation, but I haven't checked my own thread in some time. You are often in my thoughts and I imagine always will be. Your H is a fool. That was a lovely poem!

Wow, I can't believe it has been over a year since I updated my thread. I had to stop coming here so often because I realized it was holding me back a little. I was spending too much time in my head thinking about everything instead of moving myself forward. Its a delicate balancing act sometimes.

I thought I would journal a little today. Where to begin since its been over a year...

A quick recap, W and I started dating in high school. After 6 years of dating she got pregnant and we got married in the same year. A year after our S was born she got pregnant again and we had our daughter. Fast forward many years, we had a happy family and were very close. We did family vacations, both had good jobs, went on dates as often as possible, and our families blended well. Lots of love to go around. Then in the fall of 2016, she started becoming a little distant. She started working out, worrying about her appearance more, and starting to go out with coworkers after work for happy hour. Then in January of 2017, BD. She had an EA with a coworker. I did the whole begging and trying to fix things for a few months before i found this site. For about a year and a half I pretzeled myself trying to work things out. I tried really hard to use all the DB stuff and GAL. Its not for the faint of heart, but I love my family and would do anything to keep it together. Lots of minor details of things along the way that I won't list out here again. Then, in June of 2018, W moved out to her own place. Since then we have traded the kids weekly. My son is 16 and my daughter 14. It has pretty much been just status quo for 2 years now. In that time I have been much better. Getting used to the idea of not being married. Not saying I liked it or wanted it, but getting used to it and coming back to myself. Or, something that I feel is more me than I have been in the last 3 years...so I'm making progress! That is not to say that I don't still have triggering moments, but I can say that they are not as bad as they were and are short lived when they happen. Having said that, I am in one of those triggering moments now. More on that in a minute...

As far as the nuances of W's situation, where do I start? Well, firstly, W has yet to file for D. Its been years now and she has not even brought it up. Seems weird to me that if she needed so bad to be gone that she wouldn't finalize it, but comes with the territory I guess. I have thought about doing it myself, but I never seem to want to move forward with it, although i don't see why we would stay married if we aren't even really friends. I mean we are cordial to each other I guess, but I feel like I have closer relationships with the people that work at the grocery store. In the last 2 years, W and I only talk to each other about the scheduling of kid stuff. The conversations are usually cordial. She is nice for the few minutes we interact, but radio silence unless the kids have something going on. The kids relationship with her is strained, but they get along. Me and the kids have a very close and loving relationship and they complain about her often. Generally it is stuff regarding what I will sum up as selfishness. Running late getting them places, not taking care of things that they need taking care of, and a general aloofness around them. Where we have friction is when she plans things without telling me, or doesn't include me in some type of thing I should be in the know about, or should be included in. Sometimes she includes me on the most trivial things, but doesn't tell me about important stuff. its like she can't tell what she needs to share, so does it randomly when shes thinking about it. That pretty much sums up the last 2 years without all the details of individual events.

Now, in the last few months, I have seen a SLIGHT change in her. She seems to be making a little more effort to communicate. Its weird because after the last 2 years, I have all but stopped looking for any signs as to where shes at in her process. She will call me occasionally to tell me about something related to the kids..stuff that she probably didn't need to tell me. Or to ask my opinion on something on something that doesn't really even matter. Like she is looking for an excuse to talk, but it doesn't lead to anything else and then its radio silence again for a while. I generally just react in kind. It throws me off because after 3 and a half years, I have all but stopped expecting any kind of niceties from her. In the past month we have had 2 conversations where we discussed our situation for real. One time was because her and D had gotten in to it and D wasn't talking to her. It was Ds week with me and she hadn't been replying to her M or answering her calls, so W (feels weird rto still refer to her as W, but we aren't divorced) wanted to come over and try and work things out with her. I agreed and prepped D to have an open dialog. I encouraged her to say what she felt and to not hold back. That it was good to have open communication with the people you love and to not to hold any resentment. W came over and I could not believe their conversation. D unloaded on her saying how she checked out years ago, she doesn't respect her as a mother or see her as a role model, and on and on. W took it in stride as if this was an age old conversation between them. D has NEVER talked to me like that. W seems to see it as teenager behavior. W asked if I wanted to talk so we stepped outside and had a long conversation. I can't remember all that was said, but I said a lot. W seems to be poking her head out a little. She talked about the shame she felt for her decisions and how she had been depressed through a lot of it...and that she was trying. I asked what it was she was doing to TRY as her and I barely even spoke. There was a lot of back and forth and it ended with her saying that we should talk more. Then, radio silence again for a few weeks. One thing I did say to her was that I had stopped making any efforts because after years of trying with no effort on her part, I stopped because she had told me it was over and to move on. It hurt too much to continue to put forth effort for it to be dismissed by her while she treated me with contempt. Also, another thing I mentioned was that if she were going to plan anything with the kids that involved me at all or would affect me, or that I should know about, she needed to let me know up front. Especially if it had to do with my time with the kids.

Fast forward a few weeks and I find out through my son that she was planning a trip to see her mom in another state and that they would be leaving in the middle of the week on MY week with them. I called her and made a big deal about it after the conversation we had had. She apologized for me finding out that way and told me she had only just planned it. I said that she had told the kids before me and that was wrong. Well, fast forward another week and I find out that it is actually next week (which is this week) that they would be going. I called and complained again and she just said she thought we had covered that it was this week when we had our last talk. She seems genuinely apologetic and I think she thinks she told me. And, this vacation she is taking them on is one that we have taken as a family many times, only this time without me.

So, overall I have been doing pretty good, but this week has me a little down. I should have my kids through Friday evening, but instead I am helping them pack tonight to leave early in the morning for a family vacation that I will not be going on. Looking forward to these types of things to stop affecting me.

Thanks for letting me journal...I needed to get some of that out. I hope all of you are well.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Sjohn, it was kind of a treat to see such a long post from you. I just wish it wasn't a sad post. However, your sadness here is proof of your goodness, not your weakness. I explain below.

I am going through something similar (go figure) but mine is about six hundred and seventy million times more repulsive and chock full of Covid risks and outright evil. So it might help to know that it could be way worse.

Now the other thing I want to say is that this story proves YET AGAIN that you are a good man with a true and loving heart. Unfortunately, when you are a good man with a true and loving heart, it is going to hurt when someone does something to hurt you.

For a bad man with a false and unloving heart, when someone hurts you, it doesn't hurt. Or it does, so you go crazy (at the time or maybe thirty years after the hurt) and leave your wife and kids. Or get wasted. Or kick a dog. Or shoot heroin. Or…. You get the idea. If you didn’t feel what you feel, you might start on the list above in order to feel or not feel something else.

What I mean is that there is nothing wrong with your response and it is a good and right response to feel sad, unsettled, like something is off. Something is off!

You should be going together on that trip.

You should have your time with your kids.

If your W is going to change timing, she should let you know a month ahead. If she had to change it last minute, she should let you know as soon as she knows and be very apologetic and ask if it's okay with you to switch and offer you an extra few days off her next week.

If she knows the memory of that particular place is going to hurt your true and loving heart, she should let you know extra early and include a note about how she has many happy memories of being there as a family and hope you won't mind that she wanted to take the kids there again and hopes that you will have something just as wonderful to do while they are gone.

A man being sad over a memory of a time spent with me that he can't have anymore is the dream of every lady on this board so again, keep in mind, that is the right response from you even if it’s the wrong response from your was-wife. (That works better with “was-band.”)

But if she doesn't do these things, and if she left a good man with a true and loving heart to begin with, the right response is that you feel pain. Pain means your heart is alive.

What folks do with pain who do not have any kind of faith practice, I don't know.

Well, actually I do know one bad thing to do. I used to really enjoy cigarettes when I felt like that. I also liked to cry my head off. I still like to cry my head off but I usually do it while praying so I am crying directly to Someone who then comforts me. I really do feel that comfort after.

You’re doing it all right, Sjohn. That’s why it hurts.

Also (Sam) thanks for the nice thing you said in paragraph one. Those little things are quite a life raft for me these days as per what I wrote on my and Gordie’s threads. I read that about fourteen times to do battle with the various bullets flying into my mind of why that wasn’t true. Gerda has a few demons of her own, clearly.

So now that we’ve figured everything out – what can you come up with to do while you are alone this week that is really awesome and amazing. Write a short story? Turn the garage into a tiny house rental? Mow the neighbor’s lawn? Plant apple trees in the yard? (I have an apple tree out on my city street. Someone stole two of the five apples but I am still hopeful. Everyday I push the leaves around them so no one can see them growing so that me and my kids can each eat one. If you know where I live you can know that this is a true exercise in impossible faith.)

I just took off way too much time from work to write this.

Last edited by Gerda; 07/24/20 05:48 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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sjohn6,

Thanks for sharing.

1 I stopped coming around for the same reason.
2 You and I both started in the fall of 2016...that's a long time.
3 W hasn't filed...sjohn6 hasn't either...what's that mean?
4 Sometimes makes some effort to communicate...interesting.
5 Non-family vacation...stinks.

I wish I had advice for you, but I don't so I'll just offer some comfort that you are not alone, you are not crazy...you are a good man...who is doing his best in a crappy situation.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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SJohn.... that really [censored] about the family vacay. I know how it feels but you have to start thinking of it as the kids going somewhere with their mom...not a family vacay. Family vacays aren’t happening anymore unfortunately. I get that that is probably just a technicality but when my kids do stuff with their dad, I don’t think of it as family time...I choose to think of it as dad time. My thoughts regarding how to manage this besides the reframe? Plan your own getaway with your kids. It doesn’t have to be an epic trip...even a couple days will help. Make your own memories that don’t include their mom. Last year, my XH took OW to Hawaii on our 12th wedding anniversary. My solution to that was to take our kids and his mom (yes, I know...weird but they love their grandma and she loved going with us) to San Diego. We had a blast and I barely thought about XH at all.

Detachment is key SJohn. Keep working on it. When you find yourself focusing on what was lost, turn your focus to what has been gained. If you can’t think of many things, that tells you that this is what you need to be paying more attention to. For myself, I have met and made many new friends I would not have met if we were still together. I’ve strengthened existing friendships. I’ve worked on me. I went after and got a new higher-paying job. I’ve set some goals. I’ve dated and even though I haven’t met someone significant yet, it has helped me realize that there are other people out there. Good people who appreciate what I have to offer. I’ve said goodbye to my old life and the future I thought I would have and I’m working on building a new one. The more I do this, the less my XH and his activities affect me. I was a mess two years ago. Did not think I would ever find relief from the pain of it. I am so much stronger now and I am happy. I barely think of him anymore and I did not think that was possible. You can get there too. (((HUGS)))

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