I was Put On Notice (PON?..... lol) 13 days ago, and leaped into learning mode. What I found is frankly terrifying (as everyone here already knows much better than I do).
I had the BD happen 5 days ago with the ILYBNILWY (I've only started to learn these acronyms, holy cow there's a lot).
I feel like I'm early in the process in that we still live together, eat together, still talk, and she hasn't turned into an outright monster (outwardly) yet. The breakdowns she's had when we've had these two MR talks (both initiated by her) are very genuine and confirm to me it's 100% a MLC (which I believe I know what stress set off).
I believe she is trying, but this is the slid where the original personality is overcome by this dark tunnel.
She has (at the BD) said she wants to go to consoling by herself, that she is overwhelmed by everything, and that she's a complete wreck and a bad wife. I have not accused, demanded, or applied pressure....... I told her we would go very very slow and create space for both of us to "find ourselves, fix ourselves, improve ourselves". And I see now, I made a lot of mistakes while thinking I was being a good husband. Really a big part of it was I got too soft.I deferred too much in this girl-power environment we live in. I wasn't decisive, wasn't assertive, and just wasn't as manly as I should have been. I didn't help clean like I should have. I would listen but I wouldn't hear. How terrible that it takes this for me to learn. It would have happened anyway because of issues in her childhood and stresses at work (I'm a part of the problem but I'm not THE problem). By and large, I'm a very good husband..... and now I have to grow and be a better person, and a better man. I relish the opportunity, but not the price which must be paid for it.
More than anything, I feel so bad for my W. She is losing her mind and is repeating what her mother did when she was 10. Horrible. I love her with all my heart, and in two weeks is our 21st anniversary.
I've started to work out again (I get addicted to fitness), returning to church after a long absence, and forcing myself to be open to new things. She is questioning why I'm putting up space between us, and I just say "I'm working on me". Next week I'm joining a gym again to take aerobics and spinclass. I'll be there many nights a week, and I'm not sure how she will react to not asking her if she wants to do it with me.
The tricky thing for me is, she seems mostly there still (for now)..... there is the classic "weirdness" going on..... she's getting a tattoo (never would have done that before), doesn't want to go to church (never would have done that before), perception of history is being magnified in negative ways (not too extreme yet), she's having bad feeling about her family (her dad in particular, which would never have happened in the past) and glorifying her mom's actions (which she would never have before). We still sleep in the same bed, live in the same house, cook and eat together, watch shows together. My touch makes her uncomfortable (I can tell), so I'm not touching her. I'm not sharing any problems I'm having and staying very positive for her (best face I can put forth).
So new to this process, but I'm learning voraciously. I don't want to miss an opportunity to work on this early if such a thing exists. I've seen people talk about "catching it early" and I'm not sure what that means.
For now, it's Church.... learning..... becoming more assertive & desirable & respectable...... and most of all spending lots of time with
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I don't think so.... well, not yet. Her mother took off when she was young, and W and her younger sis were scarred for life. It was only five - seven years ago or so that she forgave her mom for what she did to them (leaving them and running off with another man). I know this increases the risk factor for an A dramatically with her. That understanding is very sobering. I can either learn to deal with it beforehand, or be absolutely destroyed later. Eyes wide open.
She is on the phone all the time, which drives me nuts but that's the world we live in now. I would love to go back to landlines. Mostly she plays mindless puzzle games to relax her mind, funny videos on facebook or chatting with her mom or sis.... she's had sleeping problems due to stress for a while now. I've noticed that since being Put On Notice and the BD she is sleeping better. At least there's that. It makes me wonder if that's normal..... release stress (into me) and then sleep good.
She isn't secretive about her phone, but she normally has it. I've never looked at her phone and I never will. By the same token, she's never looked at mine. We've always trusted each other.
I haven't seen anything to suggest an A, but really she travels a lot for work. If she has an A I doubt it would be local and I will never know.
Yes typically WWs have been thinking about dropping the bomb for years so when they do it’s a big relief for them.
Does she travel with people from work? I ask because 95% of the time there’s another person involved. You know a “friend “ helping them through a tough time.
Hey man. Sorry you are here. That is exactly how my WW started off. Started detaching. She started traveling a lot more for work. Started saying she wanted space. Was on her phone all the time with new progressive friends. Wouldnt let me touch her, stopped being intimate etc. I got the ILYBIDLY speech in August 2018.
October 2018 I confirmed it was an affair. Like you said, eyes wide open. My WW started with a MLC when my older daughter moved out. It went downhill from there. At first she was just a little distant. The difference with my WW us she started being extremely ugly to me. She was pushing me away by being hateful. As far as I could tell she was trying to hurt me so I would accept that we were separated. Then her excuse for having the A was that we were separated. Which of course we werent. Twisting the past got bad to the point where she told me I was a horrible H and our marriage was sh*t.
You are ahead of the game. Detach, give her space, keep an eye for flags of an A because its very possible she met someone and they are both feeding the waywardness.
Unfortunately my M is ending in D. But I have focused solely on myself and my kids and I am content with it.
Read everything here. Read Divorce Remedy. Start reading everything you can. Good luck. I hope you can save tour M.
One thing about IC for the W. Be aware that they will tell her to do what makes her happy. My WW qent to IC and her IC just validated that she needed to do what makes her happy and D me. Same with the MC we went to once after confirmation of PA.
You got this. Its a very long and painful journey. But you will either end up a better man for yourself or a better man that your W recognizes and wants to work on the MR with. She has to find herself and love herself first. Nothing you do will make her change her mind. So focus on yourself with zero expectation from her.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Very sorry to hear your M is ending in D. I can't imagine the hurt and pain people here have gone thru.
Yes that was my initial thought about counseling..... could be good, could be VERY bad. Truthfully, I will be surprised if she does it. Her mind is all over the place. If it does happen, it will be a major concern to me.
I've got all Michele Weiner-Davis's books on the way. I had bought a program from another well known person about MLC, and that was an amazing primer but left me with lots of questions and confusion. Com'on books..... I'm waiting on you!!!
LH, She occasionally travels with coworkers but generally no. What could be considered her best friends.... one used to work with her, the other works with her..... both female, both divorced.
I know (or at least I think I know) what set off the MLC....... My W and I have been very driven to succeed. We are both workaholics and we've both gotten to the top of where we can currently go. She is an executive at the company she works for, and I'm a director at the place I work for. She has shattered the glass ceiling more than a few times...... she just ran into another one several months ago and it doesn't look like she's getting thru this one. This would be the 1st time she's never overcome a barrier like that. It hit her really hard..... I'm understanding now how hard. It seemed overdone at the time [man-brain].
My WW started hanging out with women that were going through divorce and already divorced as well. They surround themselves with like minded people who validate their feelings which helps them justify what they are doing.
My WW is just barely calming down now. I was literally her enemy for about eight months. She treated me as such. I dropped the rope and never looked back. I was very hurt and not doing well from August 2018 through December 2018. But I let her go.
I have moved on and will be moving out on the 1st. Im looking forward to it. Just now my STBXWW is noticing that I am a much different person than she convinced herself I was. But its too late. She pushed me away too far and now I dont want to remain married. She hasnt hinted that she does either, but even if she wanted to I wouldnt get nack with someone who thinks its ok to have extramarital sex and mistreat the man who loved and supported them for two decades so poorly.
Im just hoping to have a minimal contact cordial co-parenting relationship with her. Thats it. Plenty of other fish in the sea. Plenty that would never lose sight of their values and morals.
Its a marathon and not a race. Even if we end up D, the finish line is loving ourselves and being content that we are the best version of ourselves that we can be.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I'm an optimist and always believe in happy endings....... have to hold to that.
Question: So my W and I haven't really touched (at all) since the second big R talk where the ILYBINILWY bomb was dropped. She's been pretty nice since then, and yeah..... I've been doing behavior modification (not for her, or rather not just for her) since. I make it a point to make a LOT of eye contact now and be completely decisive now..... no screwing around. Yesterday she asked if there was anything I wanted from the store, being decisive now I said Bayer Aspirin (not thinking she would remember anyway... she's been forgetting anything she says she'll do). Today she actually texts at the end of the day and says "do you need anything other that Aspirin?". I text back and say "nope that's it. Thanks". When she arrives home, I open the door for her, smile and keep eye contact with her as she enters....... she leans in and kisses me. Later that night as we talk about our days, I actually get her to laugh.... a REAL laugh.... it's been a long time since that's happened. Then after all that, she gets cold and irritated (nothing nasty, just irritated).
So my question is: If a MLC'er or WAS (or combo) "slips up" and enjoys you for a little while..... they drag themselves back involuntary?
Has laughter been used as a treatment for MLC or WAS? There's joy in laughter, seems like a way to punch thru the confusion even for a moment?
Still getting used to this stuff in the real world.
I can't tell you what to believe in, or how to walk this road that has emerged in front of you. I can show the what shoes are available. Truth is - there are the shoes, that will make the walk somewhat easier and comfortable, and there are the shoes, that will drag this along for the rest of your life, and cause a lot of unneeded hurt in your life.. What you need to know is, that no matter what pair you choose, you will find yourself walking the counterintuitive path, it will be confusing, it will hurt and it will be a a long walk...
Heres the deal.. We all come here with the mindset, that our situation is special, and because of that, the solution is somewhat different. The fact is, sorry, that thats rarely the case. What is different is, the persons coming here, trying to save their marriage. Its how the person responds to the advice they are given. Are they accepting the fact, that an OM most likely exists, that the M is over, and that what needs to happen is a complete detachment, in order to MAYBE rebuild a NEW marriage down the road? or do they brush that advice off, and think the advice is foolish? Neither person is wrong, because... you know what you think is best, and if you think your path is the right one, then dont take all the advice on - I am just saying, its almost ridiculous, how often the pattern turns out to be the same with newcomers here.
Heres my take on your situation:
You had something great, a marriage - now you dont, and you are hurting. You are trying desperately to find out why it crashed and burned, and what you should have done differently, because surely the fault lies with you right? Please, it takes two to do the dance, but only one to find dessert elsewhere, she most likely did, sorry. Do not put her on a piedestal, and make all the problems about you, thats not helping you by any means.
Kisses, hugs, laughs... Cake eating, securing you as plan B, Insecurities with plan A... There are several reasons to why this could happen, and none of them might have anything to do with her wanting a M with you.
You working out is great, takes mind of things, and gets you in shape, builds attraction. You telling here regarding the new experienced distance in the relationship: "I am working on me", is great... Now show her that you are... Stop talking... It doesnt matter with the crying, its not getting you the effect you want it to, trust me.. Go out and do stuff for you, be scarce.. If she talks and you are home, be polite and upbeat, but do not initiate conversation. Keep going to the gym.. Keep making this about you, keep giving her the space she needs.
You will soon be very wiser on your situation. We all were..
I am rooting for you!
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Like hurt says, you will be fine. Yes its good to recognize your toxic behaviors and 180 them. But thats for you. You made up 50% of a half. The other 50% is on her.
It takes time, focus and patience to detach. But that is your main goal. You need to emotionally detach yourself from her.
The longer you stay attached the longer you will hurt. It is extremely counterintuitive to do it. But it works. Meaning it works by saving yourself and making yourself emotionally healthy, attractive, assertive and desirable.
Your goal is to get to a point where you accept your M is over, but you know you will be fine and a much better person than before.
Stop wondering why or what she is doing. Stop making decisions based on how you think she will react. What she does doesn't matter. What you do only needs to matter to you.
Think about what will make you happy. Focus on what you need to do to be the best version of yourself possible for yourself. Once you get to the point where you love yourself, you may not want to R with your W by the time you get to that point.
But I promise that once you detach and drop that rope, you will no longer be riding the emotional rollercoaster. You will be much more wise, patient, and will have a completely new perspective on everything.
When you have that perspective and are no longer hurting, you may not even want your W back.
Your W has to take her own journey. What she does is for her to decide and you shouldn't allow her actions to get a reaction out of you at all.
She will notice that you are changed. But it would be up to her to work on herself and to make the decision if she wants to R with you. She would need to prove to you that she is committed to fixing the M. She would need to show you she has changed by showing consistent actions over a long period of time.
Once you are detached, you can decide if you want to keep shining a light on the path for her, or just to move on.
I personally decided to move on. Because my new perspective ahowed me that ai deserve so much better than what my STBXWW was giving me.
Time to do you and make yourself happy.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Hi Hurt, Thank you for that assessment. Very very helpful.
I fully admit I'm not prepared to get my head around the idea of OM happening at this moment. I know that's where most of these things begin at. I do believe an A is inevitable on this path. That I have come to terms with (well, in theory anyway).
I suppose everyone starts off thinking/hoping their spouse will be strong enough to go thru something like this and not cheat until (at least) separation (or maybe one of the real few and not at all)..... but I understand MLC is a totally different animal.
Here's my dream, my hope, my prayer (I'm sure everyone has it when starting): The W/H is unhappy and pushed over the edge by "something". Maybe it's the job, maybe it's life in general, maybe they are a bomb that was going to go off no matter what. Who knows. (I subscribe to the bomb that will go off no matter what at this point). The W/H is suffering on the inside, and yes they have to go thru this process on their own.
What I have noticed is there are two different people at work in my W's body. There's the "remnant" of the old..... remnant because it's all busted up and isn't functioning properly. There are glimpses of clarity, but mostly it's a shadow of what it once was. Then there's the "new whatever" it is. It's cold, unhappy, hateful, self-loathing. The "remnant" is losing.... it's tired and weak. The "new whatever" is going to win, it's just a matter of time and what pressures strengthen it until it reaches dominance. That's what the detachment here is attempting to do(IMO).... deprive the H/W's "new whatever" of negative strength it needs to survive, and strengthen the good spouse at the same time so they can hold on and also attempt to attract the attention of the "remnant H/W" so it can wake up and try to reassert control. The cake eating isn't you talking to your H/W, you're being played by the "new whatever". It's evil, it hates you, it's toying with you. It isn't your H/W. That's why people keep saying "Don't believe anything it says, only believe half of what it does". I think there's something else to that on a spiritual level.
The real break and death of the M is when the "new whatever" wins and becomes the primary personality. That's when the real A (or A's) happens. That's when the LBS gives up. That's when the M is dead forever. Now the "new whatever" is smart..... what tricks us is it's been there, working before showing it's hand.... gaining that foothold. That's why we get blindsided, that's why we don't know it's there until it's out of control. (IMO)
The main concern I have (and I assume most have) is what I've read says a (W)MLC lasts typically 2-5 years and then the process is over. The "remnant" returns, has remorse and shame.... and may or may not reconnect (Issues: Pride, Shame, Unforgivable) .... but "Remnant" was there the whole time, just overshadowed. And the "Remnant" has taken damage. It isn't the same after all this, how could it? It watched itself destroy everything and throw what it cared about most into the garbage.
Now what can snap them out??? If what is left of the original person is in there, watching to some extent..... of course changes can be noticed. The "new whatever" will hate the changes (it wants to stay in control), but it's not the sole occupant of the vessel. I've seen a vid on YouTube from a MLC'er who confirms it. It doesn't make it easy for them to snap out, but it does mean they are fighting with themselves like a Schizophrenic or Bi-Polar. How else do they dip high and then dip low? Can the cycle be be interrupted? Well we know a full break can help (D), but by then the LBS has quit and the H/W wakes up to a reality where all is lost. We can sort of simulate D by doing a perfect detachment and hope it spooks them to the same effect.
Here's one thing that I keep thinking about which really affected me, and now affects me more than ever: I've had deep conversations with my MIL about what she did when my W was young (abandoned her H and girls to run off with OM). She never went back, but deeply regretted that she didn't (was unforgivable). I think I'm the only person she's ever told this to.When the dad remarried a decade later, she called me in a panic..... she was frantic. She always believed she would someday go home, be forgiven and return to family. Incredible. She never forgave herself which had to happen before she could ask her (ex)H to forgive her. Tragic.
My conclusion/theory: My W was a bomb ready to go off at any time and she's following her mom's formula (the formula she observed personally as a kid): 1. Work yourself to death in the corporate world. 2. Hit a glass ceiling 3. Mental breakdown 4. Run off with OM. It is so easy to see now that I'm looking. I had no idea these things repeat in the children. She has done #1, then hit the #2 glass ceiling thing in Dec. She's been in #3 ever since. #4 is incoming. I know this is the case because she hated her mom and what she did. Now she is glorifying her (in this reduced mental state). The thing about her mom was.... she could have been saved in #1-#3..... it was #4 that ended everything. Where am I at with my W? #3.... and why I'm learning as much as possible..... fast. It is a marathon and it is also a sprint.
How does this fit in DB'ing? I'm not sure yet. All the books are on their way to me and between them and this place I hope to learn a lot.
Wow, I guess I went berserk on this post...... still sorting out my thoughts and feelings. At least I've learned at lot in two weeks. LOL
I have to say I am very impressed with your knowledge and how your handling yout situation. I spend most of my time on here trying to get newbies to make matters worse. I am a big proponent that you can't make your situation better early on but you can make them worse.
I hope you're not right about MLC because if that's the case you are going to be in for a long painful journey. Based on what I have read from you, I would say you have a good chance to turn this around if you are willing to be strong and patient.
So I know from looking around that there is a lot of focus on people protecting themselves (very smart and necessary).
The main theme seems to be cutting off attachment when dealing with something which isn't your H/W.
Is this what the books are about? The videos on YouTube, she's all about saving the marriage and says most can be saved.
In the end, the goal, if you want it to be, and the hope, is that you bettering yourself will save your M. That is the end game.
However, the path is what you need to focus on. The path is where you focus and solely work on you.
DB theory is that you are making a stronger you and in some cases, because of this, the WW/WAS sees that you are who they should continue their life with. According to DB, this phase isnt even the hard part. The hard part is when/if the WW comes back and you start piecing your R back together.
Yes, I gave up on hope. I stopped shining the light. I decided that my WW having sex with another man on top of treating me extremely badly, was an absolute dealbreaker.
Thats a decision each individual will need to make on their own.
As long as you keep doing things with an expectation that your MR will be saved, you will continue to hurt and you wont detach.
You need to go from "maybe if I show her I have changed she will come back/snap out of it" to "I am making these changes for myself and no matter what I am going to be a better person, a bright shining star in the sky, and whether or not she sees this and comes back doesnt matter, because I know I will be fine and that my next relationship, whether it be MR 2.0, or with another woman, will have the best version of me in attendance "
Having hope that you will have MR 2.0 is a good thing. Only you can decide how long you hold out hope and if thats something you want to do.
I am 38. I decided that I was not going to spend the remainder of my 30s hoping and waiting for this hateful, cheating version of my WW to recognize her issues, work on them, love herself again and decide to come back. Life is fleeting and each year of my life is just way to valuable to spend on someone who could hurt me so badly, so easily.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Great advise..... certainly makes me think "real world".
Tonight I went to church (alone), and it was one of those times like the pastor was speaking just to me. The message was to be a warrior AND a caregiver.
Solo, get ready for a marathon. If you are a church goer, check out rejoice ministries. They send a daily e-mail that has helped get me through six years of standing.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I am 38. I decided that I was not going to spend the remainder of my 30s hoping and waiting for this hateful, cheating version of my WW to recognize her issues, work on them, love herself again and decide to come back. Life is fleeting and each year of my life is just way to valuable to spend on someone who could hurt me so badly, so easily.
This entire thread is gold.
SoTorn your reply above is something I am printing and gluing to my wall!!
So well put, as if my inner mind was talking to me.
God, I love this forum!!
Last edited by gzabetas; 05/12/1912:15 PM.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
I've been changing my behaviors like crazy, really proud of that. Very pleasantly detaching and building distance (in some areas, not all). I think she's enjoying the extra space (I can see the less stress in her) and I've been lining up things to do away from the house like crazy. I'm doing all this for me, if she likes it.... that's a bonus, but I'm not doing it for her (consciously anyway, subconscious is a different beast).
We had started running together before the BD, and I haven't this last week because of shinsplints. What I really want to do is take aerobics class.... so today I told her once my knee was feeling good again I was thinking about not running and taking aerobics instead. She said "you could join a gym". Great!!!! One of the things I've learned in business (and M) is get people to think it's their idea. That was my goal. Turn something that could be a confrontation and instead I have a blank check to take as many classes at the gym that I want.Then if she does miss me at some point, she already knows she had a hand in it (IF she misses me, if she doesn't'.... too bad).
Three weeks from today is our 21st anniversary. This will be the first time there's a big calendar date for us since I was aware this MLC started. What do I do?!?!?
There's all kinds of space to put pressure on her (not intentionally).
I was going to make her a steak and crab legs dinner (and hope for some romance) and then all this happened.
On one hand, this is a special day and should be marked..... on the other hand, would the pressure of potentially sleeping with me really turn her off in her current MLC state? What about the gift? Flowers?
I hadn't even considered this until now. I would feel so bad as a husband for her to come home from work and I'm already at the gym or just saying bye I'm off to the gym.
I know most people here are separated from their spouse on the board (not me, not yet)..... but I'm sure many get a chance to be intimate at some point during one of the swinging emotions. Is it a setback to take it? Not to be too crude..... I'm looking and feeling better than I have in a long time, my aggression and testosterone are off the charts. I'd love to bang some sanity into her.
It’s hard but the quicker you get the dB basics ingrained the easier it will be . No expectations is the way I would go , as the banging sanity back into her . It would be a miracle tbh . Your hopes and expectations are gonna drag you deeper into the fog
Here's my dream, my hope, my prayer (I'm sure everyone has it when starting): The W/H is unhappy and pushed over the edge by "something". Maybe it's the job, maybe it's life in general, maybe they are a bomb that was going to go off no matter what. Who knows. (I subscribe to the bomb that will go off no matter what at this point). The W/H is suffering on the inside, and yes they have to go thru this process on their own.
What I have noticed is there are two different people at work in my W's body. There's the "remnant" of the old..... remnant because it's all busted up and isn't functioning properly. There are glimpses of clarity, but mostly it's a shadow of what it once was. Then there's the "new whatever" it is. It's cold, unhappy, hateful, self-loathing. The "remnant" is losing.... it's tired and weak. The "new whatever" is going to win, it's just a matter of time and what pressures strengthen it until it reaches dominance. That's what the detachment here is attempting to do(IMO).... deprive the H/W's "new whatever" of negative strength it needs to survive, and strengthen the good spouse at the same time so they can hold on and also attempt to attract the attention of the "remnant H/W" so it can wake up and try to reassert control. The cake eating isn't you talking to your H/W, you're being played by the "new whatever". It's evil, it hates you, it's toying with you. It isn't your H/W. That's why people keep saying "Don't believe anything it says, only believe half of what it does". I think there's something else to that on a spiritual level.
The real break and death of the M is when the "new whatever" wins and becomes the primary personality. That's when the real A (or A's) happens. That's when the LBS gives up. That's when the M is dead forever. Now the "new whatever" is smart..... what tricks us is it's been there, working before showing it's hand.... gaining that foothold. That's why we get blindsided, that's why we don't know it's there until it's out of control. (IMO)
The main concern I have (and I assume most have) is what I've read says a (W)MLC lasts typically 2-5 years and then the process is over. The "remnant" returns, has remorse and shame.... and may or may not reconnect (Issues: Pride, Shame, Unforgivable) .... but "Remnant" was there the whole time, just overshadowed. And the "Remnant" has taken damage. It isn't the same after all this, how could it? It watched itself destroy everything and throw what it cared about most into the garbage.
Now what can snap them out??? If what is left of the original person is in there, watching to some extent..... of course changes can be noticed. The "new whatever" will hate the changes (it wants to stay in control), but it's not the sole occupant of the vessel. I've seen a vid on YouTube from a MLC'er who confirms it. It doesn't make it easy for them to snap out, but it does mean they are fighting with themselves like a Schizophrenic or Bi-Polar. How else do they dip high and then dip low? Can the cycle be be interrupted? Well we know a full break can help (D), but by then the LBS has quit and the H/W wakes up to a reality where all is lost. We can sort of simulate D by doing a perfect detachment and hope it spooks them to the same effect.
Hi SoloFlex - reading up on your situation. So sorry you are here, but there are great people here
I have often wondered the same thing about my W, what you describe above is very nearly what I have experienced in the past 8 months with my W. There are glimpses of who she really is, interspersed with the changed version or "new whatever", as you put it. I have been able to determine that during these times W is living exclusively through her pain, extremely negative energy force that consumes everything during those moments. And she is directing that energy almost exclusively at myself (some at her sister).
For me, at this point the MR doesnt matter anymore. I cant go back and wouldn't want to. What I ca do is protect myself while she determines her own best way forward, whatever that looks like.
The only way to defeat this negative influx of energy overwhelming her is with love. And for each of us, because our situations are all unique, we have to figure out how to show our S's love. For me right now, temporarily, its giving her space, and it's not being there to take the hits when she lashes out.
In time you will determine the best way to deal with your W's situation. My best wishes to you!
Really a big part of it was I got too soft.I deferred too much in this girl-power environment we live in. I wasn't decisive, wasn't assertive, and just wasn't as manly as I should have been.
This is something you can change instantaneously.
In my experience a woman cannot help but react differently once the man in her midst "mans up".
During my "situation" I went to great lengths to be as "manly" as possible and we had sex throughout it, even after she had moved out and, after she returned, when we were sleeping in separate bedrooms.
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
It would have happened anyway because of issues in her childhood and stresses at work (I'm a part of the problem but I'm not THE problem).
If your wife had a chaotic and neglected childhood then this unravelling was pre-determined long before she met you.
Explosives were packed into her psyche when she was young and were bound to be detonated at some point.
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
I've started to work out again (I get addicted to fitness)
Good.
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
So new to this process, but I'm learning voraciously.
Good.
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
I don't want to miss an opportunity to work on this early if such a thing exists. I've seen people talk about "catching it early" and I'm not sure what that means.
The earlier the better.
But, if there is a line of communication open then there is hope.
What happened to your W when she was young?
Based on what you've told me I'm sure it's an MLC. My W's MLC lasted 6-7 years.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Holy crap GH.... 6-7 years.... arrragh. LOL But she did come out of it? Or you're still in it?
I'm very curious how it ends....... I've read where it's like a light bulb being turned on.... other places that it's a very slow and gradual process. Sometimes they realize how bad they've been, and other times how they don't remember everything (or everything from the life before).
For the toughening up and manliness improvement I'm reading "Be Irresistible" and "Unlock her legs" both by Dominic Mann and "What Women want in a Man" by Bruce Bryans. Amazing how much of these traits I've lost or suppressed during M.
I think two pregnancies during her MLC prolonged it.
Read the long post by Hearts Blessing on here. It was my wife to a T. AmyC also had amazing insights.
Manliness is next to godliness.
There are several fantastic resources which I read during my years of hell. I've not heard of the ones you mentioned but I will look them up. It's so important.
Whenever I've paid attention to this subject in my own marriage we end up having sex more often, as if by magic.
There is literally nothing bad that can come of paying attention to this matter.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Has anyone used the Coaching Call service? How did you like it? Was it really useful? How often is a call normally scheduled? Monthly? Bi-Weekly?-SoloFlex
I used it.
You could come up with a list of questions, sign up for one session and see what you think.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Has anyone used the Coaching Call service? How did you like it? Was it really useful?
Yes.
I had two sessions in 2008 with Jodie. I don't think she's there anymore.
It was helpful. Particularly in the first few weeks post bomb.
Only years into it did I realise my wife was having a midlife crisis. My strategy may well have differed had I known from the outset that I was dealing with.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
Hey solo! Congrats on making progress through the book. There are some very helpful nuggets in there.
. I had some coaching calls and they were very helpful... for me... not for the marriage. My ex h was and still is in MLC. As you may have read, there really is nothing you can do to move the crisis along. Nothing. While the coaching calls were helpful, nothing I learned would help to “work” on the marriage. My coach, did however, give me personal advice and helped me frame things so that I could move forward on my own and clean up my side of the street and that was immensely helpful.
If your wife is in MLC, the coaching may not help you to work on the marriage, but it could be helpful for you as an individual. I personally found my DB coach more helpful than my ic.
Good luck.
Last edited by Pax_luv; 05/14/1907:11 PM.
Me- 30's H- 40's T-10 M-5 I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15 D filed by H: September 16
Have a look at the link - all of her stuff is simply priceless and helped me no end.
She had a "sermon" thread somewhere too. There will definitely be a way you can find it.
Best, GH31
Hey GH, I found Hearts Blessing website (LOL, I thought it was a poster here)..... wow. I dropped the book and have been reading all her articles nonstop since this afternoon when I found it....... WoW. Completely flipped my lid about expectation, why stand, and how God fits into all of it. Easily the most powerful stuff I've read yet (and still reading right now).
Now I understand WHY the M is dead (totally breaks my heart), WHY I have to grow NOW, and that it will just never be the same (this completely floors me). All this pain to grow, then we get a new mess to support and heal when it's all over (maybe), and after all that...... accept it's a choice for me and for W to stay together each day. That freaking [censored]. One of the things I LOVED about my M (and I guess will soooo miss forever) is the absolute peace, trust and certainty that I thought was eternal. That aspect is gone, and will never return. That is so mind-blowing sad. My W once asked my what was the best part of our M: I replied "Peace. While everyone else turns in the wind, and revels in their dramas.... we are the calm lakes and still waters. It is a beauty most will never know". HA..... it's a beauty I won't know again!!! "Oh you're doing something weird"..... [detaches emotions]. *BANG!!!* One of the things I thought I knew about love was being open and absolutely vulnerable to your spouse. It was the trust that they wouldn't kill you which was a type of intimacy and trust shared only to one. Once detachment skills are strong I wonder if that too will be gone forever.
Hey solo! Congrats on making progress through the book. There are some very helpful nuggets in there.
. I had some coaching calls and they were very helpful... for me... not for the marriage. My ex h was and still is in MLC. As you may have read, there really is nothing you can do to move the crisis along. Nothing. While the coaching calls were helpful, nothing I learned would help to “work” on the marriage. My coach, did however, give me personal advice and helped me frame things so that I could move forward on my own and clean up my side of the street and that was immensely helpful.
If your wife is in MLC, the coaching may not help you to work on the marriage, but it could be helpful for you as an individual. I personally found my DB coach more helpful than my ic.
Good luck.
Hi Pax, Just curious... how often did you do them? Thanks!
I didn't want to answer this earlier because it's very difficult..... and I spent years and years helping her cope. I've been reading HeartsBlesssing's articles today, and she talks about the different "faces" (or personalities) a MLC'er will cycle thru in the replay stage. So my W was raped when she was 12. Needless to say she was a very broken and troubled young woman with deep, deep problems when I came into the picture. Compounding this was her parents divorce around the same time (her mom also MLC'ed and ran away - like I put in another post on this thread). So that article makes me think at some point I'm going to come face to face with her personality from that time, most notably a young assaulted version of my W along with the aftermath teen. That's not going to be pleasant...... but I will stand for her. When I 1st met her, she was doing the whole rebellious teenage sex thing and I was the white knight that saved her. She would have destroyed herself back then....
Now I understand WHY the M is dead (totally breaks my heart), WHY I have to grow NOW, and that it will just never be the same (this completely floors me). All this pain to grow, then we get a new mess to support and heal when it's all over (maybe), and after all that...... accept it's a choice for me and for W to stay together each day. That freaking [censored]. One of the things I LOVED about my M (and I guess will soooo miss forever) is the absolute peace, trust and certainty that I thought was eternal. That aspect is gone, and will never return.
That "aspect" never existed to begin with. You, me and most others here were extremely naive in that regard. We just THOUGHT that our marriages were safe and secure and untouchable. They never were. If we had all known that and had actually WORKED at keeping our marriages strong then most of us would never have ended up here. I've been with my GF over 4 years now and have to put some work in on our R almost every day. Listen and validate when I would rather tell her what to do. Put her first when I would rather put me first. Nurture her while setting aside my own need to be nurtured. Offer her unconditional love when I would rather attach requirements to it. Fight my tendencies to be passive/aggressive, condescending, overly sensitive, etc. etc. It is hard work keeping a relationship healthy. Most people quit doing that hard work after the "honeymoon phase".
Quote
One of the things I thought I knew about love was being open and absolutely vulnerable to your spouse. It was the trust that they wouldn't kill you which was a type of intimacy and trust shared only to one. Once detachment skills are strong I wonder if that too will be gone forever.
I think all that stuff about men being open and vulnerable to women is Hollywood bullshit. Women want their man to be the rock that they can depend on and lean on, the person that will listen when THEY want to be open and vulnerable. If you want to be open and vulnerable then do it over a beer with your best friend.
Call me old fashioned but I would literally do everything to avoid being a teary pile of mush in the presence of a woman, except perhaps with the exception of my Mum or sister, and then only in exceptional circumstances.
Hollywood has a lot to answer for. The rubbish it churns out is, in my opinion, responsible for the dearth of real men in our modern world.
Me: 46 W: 46 T: 23 M: 20 DS12 DD11 DS5
W left: 01/28/08 Discovered OM: 02/26/08 W back for 9 days: 04/08 W returned 05/21/08 EA/PA - 01/08-07/09 W's MLC 2008-2014 (realised this much later)
GH31. Hollywood is not only responsible for the death of men, but the false promotion of the fantasy of marriage, rainbows unicorns Walt Disney and happily ever after. Even the good ones like Fireproof, and Story of Us, which are great movies on separation and divorce still florify to happy ending into a two hour format. Good depiction but we all here know it drags out a hell of a lot longer than that.
Hi all.....I am a newbie on this site and I am hoping that I am commenting in the correct area!!
I am 8 months post BD...Middle of August '18 my H gave me the''I love you,but am not in love with you'','' I dont feel happy''... I was just 2 weeks after a miscarriage after many failed IVF attempts (long story,but it is male related fertility issue)...... Naturally I felt like my world was falling apart after the mis, but then for him to just BD like that...I was devastated.... I now know he is in the middle of a MLC...after reading articles from Hearts blessing.....He met another woman before he left and obvouisly they connected because they have been in contact ever since...She too had just broken up from a relationship...She is younger than him...He projected for the first few meetings...saying there were many problems in the marriage..some I agree with...more were him just trying to justify his behaviour...He ran away from me,his pet and his home....I went silent from end of November last...only spoke once in January and the very odd text message related to something other than our marriage....He has been away twice with his this ''distraction''as he called her... Last Feb I text him for his birthday... He replied and told me is going to go for counselling... I felt very positive about this and happy for him.... It was another 6 weeks before he actually went...I was getting the updates from family and friends...he contacted me last week to meet and talk....We met face to face on May 11th after 6 months of not seeing each other... It was emotional and difficult.... He was emotional,but his decision still feels right to him...He is very much in replay... He assured me he is not in relationship,doesnt want one and this thing with the OW is very casual...he has been with other women also,so he tells me....acting like a teenager!!! He was very upset,telling me he loved and respected me and I was his best friend!!! How can he say that and then leave the house again...He is living around 20 miles from me...He hates where he is...but not enough to want to come home......... My heart broke all over again when he left... I hated him leaving....he text me telling me it was great to see me and he will continue counselling and see ''where it takes him''.... I know I need to let him go....it is so hard.....I text him today,to see if maybe we opened up our lines of communication would it be easier..He replied saying he doesnt know,he will continue counselling and meet again in a few weeks...He doesnt want to commit to anything,just give me false hope....I am going to let go of the emotional rope and leave him off...because I beleive he is keeping me on a leash until he decides for sure what he wants...Please any nuggets of wisdom out there?
Hi all.....I am a newbie on this site and I am hoping that I am commenting in the correct area!!
I am 8 months post BD...Middle of August '18 my H gave me the''I love you,but am not in love with you'','' I dont feel happy''... I was just 2 weeks after a miscarriage after many failed IVF attempts (long story,but it is male related fertility issue)...... Naturally I felt like my world was falling apart after the mis, but then for him to just BD like that...I was devastated.... I now know he is in the middle of a MLC...after reading articles from Hearts blessing.....He met another woman before he left and obvouisly they connected because they have been in contact ever since...She too had just broken up from a relationship...She is younger than him...He projected for the first few meetings...saying there were many problems in the marriage..some I agree with...more were him just trying to justify his behaviour...He ran away from me,his pet and his home....I went silent from end of November last...only spoke once in January and the very odd text message related to something other than our marriage....He has been away twice with his this ''distraction''as he called her... Last Feb I text him for his birthday... He replied and told me is going to go for counselling... I felt very positive about this and happy for him.... It was another 6 weeks before he actually went...I was getting the updates from family and friends...he contacted me last week to meet and talk....We met face to face on May 11th after 6 months of not seeing each other... It was emotional and difficult.... He was emotional,but his decision still feels right to him...He is very much in replay... He assured me he is not in relationship,doesnt want one and this thing with the OW is very casual...he has been with other women also,so he tells me....acting like a teenager!!! He was very upset,telling me he loved and respected me and I was his best friend!!! How can he say that and then leave the house again...He is living around 20 miles from me...He hates where he is...but not enough to want to come home......... My heart broke all over again when he left... I hated him leaving....he text me telling me it was great to see me and he will continue counselling and see ''where it takes him''.... I know I need to let him go....it is so hard.....I text him today,to see if maybe we opened up our lines of communication would it be easier..He replied saying he doesnt know,he will continue counselling and meet again in a few weeks...He doesnt want to commit to anything,just give me false hope....I am going to let go of the emotional rope and leave him off...because I beleive he is keeping me on a leash until he decides for sure what he wants...Please any nuggets of wisdom out there?
Louise.
It would be better if you created your own thread by using the main page of newcomers and select
Wow, time goes by so fast. Tomorrow is three weeks since BD, this is such a fascinating process. Thanks to all the wonderful people here who lend their experiences and wisdom. I've learned sooooo much, and don't know where I'd be otherwise (in a much worse place I'm sure).
So an update for me: My W is still acting relatively normal. She is withdrawing a lot, and I'm giving her total space. She has an open runway..... no questions asked. I think that's really helped her, I can see much less stress by leaving her alone...and I can see it start to build if I'm around her for more than a few min (then I get outta Dodge and leave her be). At the same time, letting go.... while not fun, absolutely is necessary. Not asking what she's doing, not asking where's shes going, no texts unless she texts first, no calls originating from me, no touching, no I loves you's, no R talk, no talk about the future, very little talk about me, almost all talk centered on her, lots of eye contact....... everything kept very light and pleasant, and I'm opening the door for her when she comes home from travel. Want to make sure she feels safe and welcome. Not time to go dark (later).
Learning how to detach and even harder to put into practice the emotional detachment..... but I know it takes time. So much better than at the start but so much farther to go. She's on my mind all the time because of my concern, but trying to give her to GOD so he can work on her, and understand everything she does is her choice (easy to say, hard to truly grasp). Learning to accept that I have no power and no influence in this process. Her niceness is a veneer that I assume will wear away, so I must be thankful that it exists for now.
Looking for that dark turn but it just hasn't happened yet. Thankful for the time to jump-start my improvement before it gets harder.
Oh.... one thing which is very curious to see and not just read about..... she's dressing like a teen (not always, but it's happened a few times). Such a fascinating process.....
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I haven't followed the prescribed advice exactly in terms of boundaries because I'm trying to keep an air of normalcy while I collect evidence, but there's really so much comfort in detaching. The more I've let go the better I've felt. I'm almost to the point of indifference now and it's so much easier to function day-to-day. I'm almost excited about the next person if that time comes.
Sounds like you're doing well! I'm still new myself, but your last post reads well and is motivating.
Last edited by oops13; 05/17/1905:11 PM.
May: discover PA April: MC pending IC, back in MBR, discover EA March: different bedrooms, IC Jan 19: ILYBINILWY
Oh.... one thing which is very curious to see and not just read about..... she's dressing like a teen (not always, but it's happened a few times). Such a fascinating process.....
Part of your change should be dressing like a man. Not a boy. Dress with style.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Ever since I dropped weight I have been dressing very nice. Chinos, nice shoes I.E Aldo, nice button up shirts with rolled sleeves. I used to dress in t shirts, jeans and Nikes. I also bought a few fitted suits.
I was actually accused of being "vain" by the EXWW because I dress nice now.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I agree, its when they commit themselves to their EA or PA. All the red flags come up. You can literally search online for "Infidelity Red Flags".
You will start seeing them because its a script.
I saw the following changes starting in March 2018
Hiding the phone Obsession with exercise Obsession with looks Change of hair style Synthetic Nails Fake Eyelashes Change of grooming habits (started shaving it all off down there when she would never do that for me when I asked) Hiding the phone like crazy Hiding her laptop like crazy Coming home late Sitting in her car in the garage late to talk on the phone (OM lives out of state with his wife, kids and grandkids) Finding reasons to leave the house (I followed her and found her talking on the phone in her car at the gas station) Increase in traveling for work (OM is her boss) Ignoring me while traveling (used to talk to me all day in text and every night before bed) Increase in alcohol consumption (Went from a glass of wine every few days to two bottles per night) Changed clothes (started buying cocktail dresses instead of business attire for work trips) Started leaving earlier for travel and coming back later, I.E leaving Sunday Morning when work meeting was Tuesday. Coming back the following Monday when work ended the Friday before (used to make a point to be home on weekends and travel home immediately when she was done with work) Increase in younger/single/divorced friends (Made friends with divorced/progressive women from Yoga classes) Distancing herself from kids and I Getting mad when we questioned why she was traveling so much (travel went from once every few months to every other week for a full week) Removed herself from my credit card as authorized user (This is a biggie, they separate their finances) Started putting me down all the time Started telling me I was worthless Started telling me I was smothering her Started telling me she needed space
Boom BD, ILYBIDLY Boom confirmation of PA
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Is it universal that these MLC'ers will not go to church? I'm really surprised how absolutely against going she's turned... it's very very shocking. If I was in crisis, I'd be running to church.
Does this also mean MLC'ers stop praying? I haven't seen my W pray since this started and now that I think about it..... not for a long time before either.
I agree, its when they commit themselves to their EA or PA. All the red flags come up. You can literally search online for "Infidelity Red Flags".
You will start seeing them because its a script.
I saw the following changes starting in March 2018
Hiding the phone Obsession with exercise Obsession with looks Change of hair style Synthetic Nails Fake Eyelashes Change of grooming habits (started shaving it all off down there when she would never do that for me when I asked) Hiding the phone like crazy Hiding her laptop like crazy Coming home late Sitting in her car in the garage late to talk on the phone (OM lives out of state with his wife, kids and grandkids) Finding reasons to leave the house (I followed her and found her talking on the phone in her car at the gas station) Increase in traveling for work (OM is her boss) Ignoring me while traveling (used to talk to me all day in text and every night before bed) Increase in alcohol consumption (Went from a glass of wine every few days to two bottles per night) Changed clothes (started buying cocktail dresses instead of business attire for work trips) Started leaving earlier for travel and coming back later, I.E leaving Sunday Morning when work meeting was Tuesday. Coming back the following Monday when work ended the Friday before (used to make a point to be home on weekends and travel home immediately when she was done with work) Increase in younger/single/divorced friends (Made friends with divorced/progressive women from Yoga classes) Distancing herself from kids and I Getting mad when we questioned why she was traveling so much (travel went from once every few months to every other week for a full week) Removed herself from my credit card as authorized user (This is a biggie, they separate their finances) Started putting me down all the time Started telling me I was worthless Started telling me I was smothering her Started telling me she needed space
Boom BD, ILYBIDLY Boom confirmation of PA
Wow ST, I can check off several of these..... not all, but several. Tells me she's gearing up. I wonder if because I pulled the BD out of her she wasn't done setting up and it was dropped premature (maybe not - I'll never know).
You will get there man. Just keep focusing on yourself. Push her from your mind. If you start thinking about her, force yourself to think of something else.
One thing that helped me detach was meeting new people and realizing that there are plenty of other people on this earth that will recognize my value and want me in their life unconditionally.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Is it universal that these MLC'ers will not go to church? I'm really surprised how absolutely against going she's turned... it's very very shocking. If I was in crisis, I'd be running to church.
Does this also mean MLC'ers stop praying? I haven't seen my W pray since this started and now that I think about it..... not for a long time before either.
-SoloFlex
Any thoughts on this? Went to church again tonight, W didn't go. Absolutely zero interest that I can tell.
There has been talk about a big part of the whole MLC experience being fought on the spiritual level (and I happen to agree). Any stories about this aspect?
Ok, I need an ear, opinions, suggestions, feedback.... [deep breath]
So I was drawn into an R discussion tonight with W (which I know is a no-no) but it did have a purpose. I wanted to evaluate where she is, what she's thinking (or thinks she's thinking) and probe by asking open ended questions and waiting. I am lacking information, so an opportunity like this important (like why is she nice still?).
Anyway.... so the big fireworks first (get it out of the way): She gave me her wedding and engagement rings back and said "put this back on me when everything is ok". I was shocked but kept myself together (I'll get into that more in a min).
Her big thing tonight was how weird the last two weeks have been. I had been pulling back and giving her space these last two weeks (which seemed to be helping) and this did not sit well with her at all. She went thru the same stuff everyone here talks about: "I can't see how we can improve this", "I'm suffocating", "My dreams have been buried", "I'm angry", "I'm sad", "I don't want to hurt you", "I'm a bad wife and a bad person", "This isn't easy for you", etc. It's like she was hoping I'd put a stop to this. I did the 180.
A main theme the whole conversation was the desire to run (she wouldn't have been open about this unless I was asking questions and been interested (and listening). This is where the returning of rings happened (that was a stab in the heart). I asked her what options were going thru her head, for the 1st time ever the D word was used, along with counseling.
Now I did have to make a trade to get this information = nothing given, nothing received. She wanted to know what I was doing, and I told her I was giving her space and time.... and that I was working to understand myself and become a better person. There was some emotion in there but I kept it in really good check.
Near the end, she was very emotional and asked how and why I was so even-keel...... why was I not mad at her. How could I be understanding and supportive. She was very confused. I told her I was deeply interested in her and us (yes maybe a mistake), I told her I love her, I believe in our marriage........ the reason for all that is to make sure she knows there's an open door back. I'm already expecting an A (get that out of the way right now). The A is going to happen. Here's another possible no-no I did....... after taking the rings back (which is a huge relief to me, I was afraid she'd run off and pawn them, have them stolen by an OM, or defiled in some vulgar act.... at least I can protect them, preserve their sanctity as a symbol, and use them in the healing process later). So anyway.... once I had the rings. I asked her "what does this mean?". She acted like she didn't understand, and then replied "It gives me stress to look at them and think about you". I told her "you realize you will be tempted as you have never been tempted before..... Do you understand this?". She wanted clarification, and I gave it to her. Spelled it out (not getting mad, or impatient, completely clinical). She understood and didn't think that would happen. I told her she WILL be tested even if she can't see that now. I also added that I would hope she would be honest with me if something does happen as I would be honest with her. She agreed.
We agreed to give her space and time to reduce her stress. And agreed that if the MBR is closed she will be left alone (until I go to bed). She was soooooo confused, crying..... over and over "I can't do this anymore", "I want to run and I'm trying not to".
Believe nothing she says and half what she does...... ok, I believe 10% of what she says, and half what she does. I have the rings. The affair is inbound. The tattoo is Tuesday. A girls night out at the baseball game and drinks at the bar is Saturday (learned about this tonight). She went to a collage graduation party tonight and told me someone had thought she was in collage (which obviously gave her great pleasure).
It was a big night..... I was 90% clinical that was very good. 10% was minor slips (eyes watering, one or two small tears...... not for long). Remained very supportive in everything. Asked questions. Empathized. Acknowledged my faults leading up to this point. Didn't tell her any BS. Reinforced the concept of US. Denied any desire to give up on us.
Gave some up to receive a lot in return. She's going down, and going down fast.
As I look at her rings.... I see something..... understand something I didn't see or expect. [Sigh] There's a little story I'd like to share......
My W and I were raised poor..... from small-town USA. We had nothing except each other and GOD. When I proposed, I was in the service.... back then junior enlisted made nothing. I was an E3 and cleared $332 dollars a month. Most of my money went to buying prepaid calling cards so I could talk to her once a week. Her dad had nothing, couldn't help with the wedding expenses. It took a whole year for me to save enough money for her dress. $1800..... the nicest thing we could dream of. The engagement ring was something I couldn't afford at all... We had so little all I could afford was a diamond chip, and I wanted her to have so much better. I prayed, we prayed.... and a little while before I was going to propose a miracle happened..... she was going somewhere, and there on the top of a gas pump was a ring. A big gaudy gold ring with a 2ct rock and a bunch of small princess cut diamonds. No one claimed it.
The 2ct is completely colorless (perfect) and the cut was fantastic. That was GOD's gift to us... it WAS us. Beautiful from the outside but with some inclusions inside.... if you magnified it you could see them. She gave me the ring, no questions asked and I didn't ask for it. She assumed I'd sell it. I didn't. From the ugly ring came a beautiful solitaire wrapped in platinum..... and for the wedding band, two of the princess cut stones were spaced evenly so the big stone sat between them The small stones were us..... the big stone was GOD. The three make one. A trinity ring.
The ring was a gift from GOD...... he has removed it from it's place so his gift is not defiled.
Is it universal that these MLC'ers will not go to church?
It's not uncommon. WAS's love to hook onto an enabler or two and will shut down on people that don't enable them. So for example sometimes their own parents will try to convince them to work on the M and they will quit talking to them for a while (months, maybe longer). Likewise religion does not tell them what they want to hear so they will quit going, or go but just for "show".
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
So I was drawn into an R discussion tonight with W (which I know is a no-no) but it did have a purpose. I wanted to evaluate where she is, what she's thinking (or thinks she's thinking) and probe by asking open ended questions and waiting. I am lacking information, so an opportunity like this important (like why is she nice still?).
First of all you were not "drawn into" an R discussion. How do I know? Because YOU "wanted to evaluate where she is". You are wasting your time and hurting your chances of recon. How? Because you are applying pressure to her at a time she wants ZERO PRESSURE. Your job is to REMOVE all pressure. Every time you apply pressure you set yourself back to square one. So STOP. Whenever you temp check all you're going to hear is how she feels at this very moment in time. It can change tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.You get no useful info out of a temp check other than hearing nothing has changed for her. She may even feel forced to accelerate her plans for S or D.
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Her big thing tonight was how weird the last two weeks have been. I had been pulling back and giving her space these last two weeks (which seemed to be helping) and this did not sit well with her at all.
That's because of where her mind is right now. EVERYTHING you do is "not good enough" or "too little too late" or "done for all the wrong reasons". This is why we say to do things for YOU, not to get a reaction out of her. It will slowly over time work on her perception of you, but not right away. You've got to be patient.
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Near the end, she was very emotional and asked how and why I was so even-keel...... why was I not mad at her. How could I be understanding and supportive. She was very confused.
This is pretty typical as are most of the other things she said to you in that talk. WAS's expect a very negative reaction to BD from the LBS, in fact they kind of hope for it as it makes them feel more justified. When they don't get that it makes it harder for them to rationalize what they are doing. They still DO rationalize it, but it's not going "according to plan".
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I told her I was deeply interested in her and us (yes maybe a mistake), I told her I love her, I believe in our marriage........ the reason for all that is to make sure she knows there's an open door back.
All you're doing is laying the groundwork to be Plan B.
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I told her "you realize you will be tempted as you have never been tempted before..... Do you understand this?". She wanted clarification, and I gave it to her. Spelled it out (not getting mad, or impatient, completely clinical). She understood and didn't think that would happen. I told her she WILL be tested even if she can't see that now. I also added that I would hope she would be honest with me if something does happen as I would be honest with her. She agreed.
I guess you are talking about an A. She is going to do what she wants, and she will not keep you informed of it. Do you read other threads here? If not please do, especially those of people farther down the road than you. It'll give you a better idea of what to expect, and what DOESN'T work.
It sounds like you have strong faith so that's good, but remember the story about the drowning man screaming to God for help? And a boat comes by and asks if he needs help and he says no, God will save me. Then another comes by and he says the same, then he drowns, goes to Heaven and asks God why he didn't save him and he says "who do you think sent the boats?" Don't wait for a miracle to "snap her out of it", instead trust that God is sending you to the places you need help from (like here). LISTEN to the advice, FOLLOW the advice. God may be teaching you a lesson in PATIENCE with this. Embrace the journey, don't fight it.
So I was drawn into an R discussion tonight with W (which I know is a no-no) but it did have a purpose. I wanted to evaluate where she is, what she's thinking (or thinks she's thinking) and probe by asking open ended questions and waiting. I am lacking information, so an opportunity like this important (like why is she nice still?).
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
First of all you were not "drawn into" an R discussion. How do I know? Because YOU "wanted to evaluate where she is". You are wasting your time and hurting your chances of recon. How? Because you are applying pressure to her at a time she wants ZERO PRESSURE. Your job is to REMOVE all pressure. Every time you apply pressure you set yourself back to square one. So STOP. Whenever you temp check all you're going to hear is how she feels at this very moment in time. It can change tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.You get no useful info out of a temp check other than hearing nothing has changed for her. She may even feel forced to accelerate her plans for S or D.
Hi AnotherStander, So I have a question about this..... so we've had three of these R talks total. When they happen, she corners me, I don't go looking for it. So when a W blocks a doorway and says "we need to talk", how do you get away or disarm it? The 1st two I was in a closet and she barred the way out. Last night she blocked the doorway to the bedroom. Just say I don't want to talk about it? Move her? I'm still really new to this. I'm not looking to start trouble with her.
Welp you said what you said. Just understand that the conversation you had will not change her mind.
Like AS said, she will not be open and honest with you about an A. Your MR is over. You need to accept that.
Even though you shouldnt have talked to her about loving her etc, you did.
Now just remember that you said those things. Never say them again. Its time to stop being plan B. Shift all of the focus onto yourself and back way off of her. Set her free. Drop that rope and start dealing with your life. Start preparing for the very likely possibility that you will be D.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You are behaving like a beta. Woman are attracted to Alpha behavior.
"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me.": "I do not share my woman with other men" "I do not let fear control me" "I do not let a woman control me"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Hi AnotherStander, So I have a question about this..... so we've had three of these R talks total. When they happen, she corners me, I don't go looking for it. So when a W blocks a doorway and says "we need to talk", how do you get away or disarm it? The 1st two I was in a closet and she barred the way out. Last night she blocked the doorway to the bedroom. Just say I don't want to talk about it? Move her? I'm still really new to this. I'm not looking to start trouble with her.
Wow, blocking your exit? That's some pretty crazy stuff there. OK so if she corners you then you do two things and two things only- LISTEN and VALIDATE. That's it.
"We need to have a talk."
"OK I'm listening."
"I am sick and tired of this situation, I need out."
"It sounds like you are frustrated, that must be difficult for you."
"I want you OUT and right now. I can't take this pressure anymore. You're trying to manipulate me blah blah blah"
"I am not going anywhere. I would prefer that you stay here and work on the M with me but I understand that is not what you want and I will not stand in your way."
"Great so when are you moving out?"
"As I said I'm not going anywhere."
"THAT IS JUST LIKE YOU, A JERK TO THE END, HOW DARE YOU BLAH BLAH BLAHDY BLAH"
"I am sorry you feel that way, but I will not be disrespected. If you choose to yell then this conversation is over."
"WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE BLAH BLAAAAAAAAAH"
-SF walks out of room silently-
Listen. Validate. Be the rock. Stand firm. Don't get drawn into R conversations.
Hi AnotherStander, So I have a question about this..... so we've had three of these R talks total. When they happen, she corners me, I don't go looking for it. So when a W blocks a doorway and says "we need to talk", how do you get away or disarm it? The 1st two I was in a closet and she barred the way out. Last night she blocked the doorway to the bedroom. Just say I don't want to talk about it? Move her? I'm still really new to this. I'm not looking to start trouble with her.
Wow, blocking your exit? That's some pretty crazy stuff there. OK so if she corners you then you do two things and two things only- LISTEN and VALIDATE. That's it.
"We need to have a talk."
"OK I'm listening."
"I am sick and tired of this situation, I need out."
"It sounds like you are frustrated, that must be difficult for you."
"I want you OUT and right now. I can't take this pressure anymore. You're trying to manipulate me blah blah blah"
"I am not going anywhere. I would prefer that you stay here and work on the M with me but I understand that is not what you want and I will not stand in your way."
"Great so when are you moving out?"
"As I said I'm not going anywhere."
"THAT IS JUST LIKE YOU, A JERK TO THE END, HOW DARE YOU BLAH BLAH BLAHDY BLAH"
"I am sorry you feel that way, but I will not be disrespected. If you choose to yell then this conversation is over."
"WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE BLAH BLAAAAAAAAAH"
-SF walks out of room silently-
Listen. Validate. Be the rock. Stand firm. Don't get drawn into R conversations.
This works. It will at least, if anything, make them stop mistreating you. My EXWW was doing this badly. When I backed way off, she filled the void with what AS says above. Literally chasing me around the house, blocking me from leaving my room etc. She just wanted to argue, she wanted to get a rise out of me. I would just validate and when she started to be ugly I would tell her that I will not deal with the disrespect and walk off.
If she pursued me I would just get in my car and leave. I had to leave several times because she was just unreal ugly to me.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
This living with MLC'er really is a double edged sword..... actually I'm wondering if it isn't harder. My father is pushing me to get a L now. What I really want is to let go, forget about her (while I improve myself) but not be D. Does that make sense? Something I read said delay, delay, delay..... no D. Let her totally go, send her on her way but give as much time before closing the door forever.
Ah so you had this too. I haven't hit the ugly stage yet, now it's all about manipulating me into caring for her using tears, crying, etc. I do have empathy for her, but I am starting to becoming cold/numb...... I call it being clinical. I'm there, but not completely there. I need to get to not there at all (emotionally).
I'm sure the ugly is coming, trying to be prepared, trying to detach. I thought they're was going to be more time, but it's falling like a stone (surprised me). I thought by agreeing to room/space this was a good thing... I guess not. I'm trying to buy time to set everything up (separation of finances mostly and getting bills out of the way before then).
Here's another question: When she cheats, and I know for sure...... do I ask her to leave? I'm not about putting up with that garbage, but I also know if you do throw them out they blame you for it and it becomes a big thing. I'm not leaving the house, I'm not leaving the MBR. I'd hope she's just want to leave on her own then, but what if not?
Heart's Blessing says you have to let them have their A and burn themselves out. Has to be done. She also talks about the LBS having to remain silent during this time or else you strengthen the OM/OW. This is very confusing and conflicting. How do you get them out without strengthening their madness?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it and I'm learning.
I think I just witnesses my first replay "face".... wow, it's soooo interesting. I can't believe it's happening so fast.
I came home and W was playing piano.... not just any piano, the classics.... the hard stuff. She played this when she was a teen, and used it to cope with her parents D and all the trauma teens have anyway.
She was doing really good, no mistakes (just like when she was a teen), and our parrots were screaming for attention. She yells a them a couple times... then flies off the handle, slams the cover shut and storms upstairs yelling "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!". I've never seen her mistreat her piano before... never.
A few min later she appears in a robe and gently asks for some soup I made the other day. Total 180... and I swear it was like a young person asking.
WOW.
She for annoyed at me being on the phone when she asked, then she went into the bedroom and closed the door like we agreed.... when she wants space, close the door. (Success).
I've read about the Replay Faces and acting out, but I had never seen it before. Just WOW. She flipped so many times, it was just like mental illness.
Would an anti-depressant do anything??? Just curious. She wouldn't take it anyway.
This living with MLC'er really is a double edged sword..... actually I'm wondering if it isn't harder. My father is pushing me to get a L now. What I really want is to let go, forget about her (while I improve myself) but not be D. Does that make sense? Something I read said delay, delay, delay..... no D. Let her totally go, send her on her way but give as much time before closing the door forever.
Is that what you did?
I stuck to DB'ing, which isn't "delaying" but simply not helping the WAS with S or D. The attitude is don't stand in their way, and if they need something from you then provide it, but don't do any of the work yourself. So I let her do all the work. And she did, she was pretty anxious to get out of the house. She rented first and stayed there for a couple of years and then bought a house. Strangely despite that she was never in a hurry to do anything about D though. She had papers drawn up early on but then just let it all sit untouched. After a couple of years I had a business ownership opportunity come up and had concerns about her possibly making a claim on it if D happened later, so I was the one that ended up pushing the D through. In my case my XW wasn't MLC and was mostly pretty civil throughout.
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Would an anti-depressant do anything???
Very hard to say, it might even out her highs and lows but it probably wouldn't change her mind about the M. In fact there are some studies that indicate A/D's may contribute to people losing their "love feelings" for their spouse or even kids over time. A lot of LBS's that come here mention their WAS as having been on A/D's for a long period of time (mine was one).
Today is Tattoo Tuesday.... it looks like I don't get to see it. LOL!!!!! I thought she'd be showing it off as soon as came thru the door..... NOPE!!!
That's ok.... she can keep it her "secret". Whatever she needs to work on herself. I know it's there, she's in a great mood.... even played with the parrots for a min.
Well I finally got to see the tattoo for about 3 seconds (LOL). I don't think she wanted me to see it, but it was payment for making dinner.
So I got my first inkling of an A last night. Came to bed a couple hours early (I always work late, and she's asleep when I go to bed). This time I came to bed just after midnight and she was awake. I was surprised she was awake, and she was surprised that I was there. I noticed her phone face down on the night stand, and then it buzzed with an incoming text. She grabbed it and said she was talking with her sister..... um, I don't remember her ever talking to her sister after midnight. Climbed into bed and she made sure to angle so I couldn't glance at it. She kelp asking what I was doing and that I was coming to bed early (I didn't realize this too was a 180 for me). After seeing her discomfort and annoyance, I closed by eyes and turned my head away to give her breathing room.
Her life, her choice, her problem. I can't make decisions for her, I can't steer her, I can't fix her. Disconnect, endure, let the problem run it's course. I hope she processes these issues and comes out the other side ok.
Yep, they hide their phones. My EXWW also got a new tattoo. She got a lotus fower to symbolize her souls purity. Too bad its not pure! Lol
I also got some ink done but thats normal for me. I have my entire left arm from the elbow to my knuckles done. Have several other tattoos as well.
I got a pair of lips done on my chest. EXWW asked to see it and was real uppity about my new ink lol.
Last edited by SoTorn; 05/22/1903:09 PM.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I like to be prepared in advance and not be blindsided (like I have been so far) so I started working on "scripts" in my mind. I was wondering, if the request for a D comes (maybe it does, maybe it doesn't), what is the right response?
If it comes to that, what I really want is to counter with a 1 year separation and give more space/time for this process to run it's course (and let her see it's not me causing all this pain/agony).
Here's the script in my head as it stands:
W: "I want a D" Me: "That is something very big, I need time to think about this. I'll let you know when I'm done thinking about it." 5-10 days later..... Me: I've thought about it. We can talk when you're ready. W: (whatever she says) Me: "I think D is a last resort option. I understand you want to be away from me. I propose a 1 year separation from each other and then we can see where we are. We can separate our finances now." W: (Whatever she says) Agree/Disagree
If she agrees, great (I don't have a disagree script at all yet). This is my script for agree: Me: "I think you should move out. We have a year still on our lease, our birds drive you crazy with their noise and can't go to an apartment, and you need a fresh space that doesn't remind you of all this. You can take one of the beds, one of the TV's and any of your stuff." (do I allow her to keep anything in the house if it doesn't fit where she's going? We have big furniture)
Should I let her visit the birds? WAS reach out to animals first to test the waters right? Let her keep a key so she can visit them (and notice I'm functioning fine without her, and without "me being there" pressure?)
My goal is to delay, leave her alone and let the process run it's course (trying to do that now, but there is overlap with our routines - like cooking, eating together and sleeping in same bed). I'm hoping the space I'm giving now will be enough, but if A is happening or will happen..... then 1 year separation is best for me.
I'm detaching, that is very obvious to me (but it's in a loving way, not cold or cruel).... still a long way to go, but that process has absolutely started.
I don't want a D.... I want her to get thru this, remember, and then make her choice...... whichever way that goes.
Too much talk honestly. You need to show her you are AMAOAFWL
W: I want a D H: I understand you think that a D will resolve everything and bring you happiness, I am not in agreement and don't want that, but I won't get in your way.
End of conversation, continue to DB, detach, 180, GAL. Thats it. You are essentially telling her that you are ok being plan B. Are you ok with being plan B? If not, then don't tell her that. Any time D comes up. "As I said before, I don't think thats a resolution for our issues, but again I won't stop you".
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
This is a proud, headstrong, stubborn woman..... but a really good woman (before this). I think if there is D, that's it. I can already tell her 1st inclination is to run, not to D. So why not satisfy the preference?
Plan B..... in a way I suppose. I don't want to be exposed to it. Like I said, I want to buy time for her to clear the tunnel. Forgiveness will have to come afterward and is a different animal. Some can forgive an A.... some can't. I don't know which I am. If she was clear thinking, then absolutely not. With this mental illness called MLC..... I think I would really try. I do subscribe to Hearts Blessing's posts which say let them do it, and burn themselves out (This is what Larry Bilotta teaches also). It's required to navigate the tunnel. Above all, I still love this woman.... even if she's not with me or comes back to me. My #1 priority is to make sure she gets out of the tunnel and isn't stuck forever (like her mom is). I will get on one way or another..... She won't.
Drop the rope, yes... that is the objective for me and I will get there. Close the door forever, hopefully not and definitely not prematurely.
When it comes to dealing with a wayward, adulterous wife, brevity really is the soul of wit.
Less is more.
There are goldfish with wider attention spans than Ws in MLC and/or an affair.
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
If she agrees, great (I don't have a disagree script at all yet).
What she "agrees" to will likely change from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute.
You're the man.
You shall determine what happens and does not happen in your home.
Not by being an abusive jerk but by your authority, posture and demeanour.
You determine what shall be.
I really like this GH...... but a question: So much of the MLC is all about pressure and the perception of control being forced on them. I've read where IF you throw them out (or create an ultimatum), they remember that and it escalates the rift for a long time..... but if they choose or agree, then that isn't the case. Yes?
Boundaries = Good (protect yourself) Ultimatums = Bad (they normally backfire since they are pressure)
Aren't MLC's all about the path of least resistance/pain to reach their perceived promised land of no internal anguish? In this case, D = resistance. Separation = No resistance....... well that's what I'm wondering.
W:"H, I want D" H:"I see many solutions to our problems, but if D is THE ONLY WAY for you to be happy, I will not stand in your way"
Then listen and validate. Let W do all the talking. when she pauses, then short validation. End the convo first.
W:"Bla bla bla unhappy bla bla bla"
H"I want us BOTH to be happy" W:"Bla bla bla W:"Bla bla bla W:"Bla bla bla H:"I can not change the past." W:"Bla bla bla W:"Bla bla bla W:"Bla bla bla W:"Bla bla bla H:"I understand what you are saying. I need time to process everything. We are done talking for now"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I know you dont want to D. Remember she is just sh*t talking. Just because mine filed doesnt mean yours will. They drag their feet. I was told that we are getting a D when I confirmed PA in October. It took five months for that to come to life.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I've noticed some changes these last few days. I guess if the moods are changing so will the behaviors.
So she's using the space agreement we came to, which is if she closes the door she's to be left alone. She's using it..... which I think is a success. I want her to have space so she can de-stress, collect her thoughts, and hopefully slowly work thru this. She came home in a terrible mood last night after fighting with her work friends and kept the door closed all night.
Something else I've noticed is she is always covered now, and if I'm walking by (I'm not stopping to stare at her or anything) she'll grab stuff to cover her body (such as when we're getting ready/dressed for work). It is normal to become a stranger to your spouse (in their MLC eyes)?
A positive: She cleaned a little last night, I found out when I had my midnight protein shake. She hasn't done any of that since this started. This morning I was sure to thank her for that and tell her I appreciated it. Seemed like she appreciated that I noticed and called it out. I admit I took it for granted before, I'm 180'ing that.
Yeah, I couldn't see my EXWW naked anymore. Literally, seen her naked thousands of times. But no, now she needs privacy. So ridiculous! Oh well. Plenty of other people to see naked lol.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
She can't hold any eye contact with me anymore. Really? Why is this? Guilt? Really noticed it a couple days ago, and used the last two days to confirm it. Par for the course? I'm trying to prepare for the big stuff..... but these small things really catch me off guard.
I tried a very small test last night where after making dinner, I sat on the couch with her (normally I'd be in the recliner or love seat). She didn't say anything about it, and we had a couple good laughs watching part of 50 1st dates (one of her favorite movies). She sits with her legs up on the couch, and I noticed she'd relax a bit and then recoil once she realized her feet were on the same cushion as me (not touching or anything). So strange.... like I'm a weirdo or something.
After a little while she went upstairs and closed the MBR door. Didn't see her again until I went to bed. I really like that she's using our rule for having space. I hope it's helping her de-stress and give a chance for her to work on internal issues. She's going to go visit her sister tonight and stay over, maybe that will do her some good too. It'll be the first time she's seen any family since giving her rings back to me. Who knows what will come (if anything) from that. Actually a little concerned because her sister is outspoken, and absolutely HATES any MLC type behavior because that's what her mom did (SIL barely speaks with her mom, even after all this time....almost 30 years). Maybe I'll be getting a phone call from her after the visit......
Well, I'm going to do my thing and not worry about it. Plenty of productive and fun things to do. GAL it up!!!
She can't hold any eye contact with me anymore. Really? Why is this? Guilt? Really noticed it a couple days ago, and used the last two days to confirm it. Par for the course?
Yes. Typical
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Hang in there Flex. The cycling is brutal, I’ve been all over the place today myself. Keep trying different things to distract your mind until something sticks.
Let us know how the sessions go! I’m thinking about trying it out also.
UN, I will, hope I can get the 1st call done soon.
I think having a real plan will help a lot. Giving her time and space is good, and hopefully helping her to some extent.
Now I understand how people can make big mistakes in what they say. If she was here tonight I could be in real trouble. So many emotions..... anger, sadness, betrayal, more anger..... even worse are the questions that go with them.
Absolutely a spiritual battle..... these thoughts are not something I'd normally think. I'm not an angry, hate filled person. Since we're linked by marriage, I wonder if she experiences the same thing at the same time.... or if she has relief while I take the hits.
Hang in there man this definitely is a roller coaster ride a which includes so many ups and downs. This is probably going to take years to play itself out.
I can tell by your posts that you will come out of this on the other side a better person and will survive and thrive one way or another.
Last edited by job; 05/26/1902:29 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
