I met my husband in 1999 and got married after 3 months of dating. For the past 19 years I’ve always considered myself so lucky to have such a good husband. He’s always been very family-oriented, caring, loving and romantic. We have three kids, two daughters aged 14 and 12 and a son who’s 10. He has travelled a lot for his work and at times it has strained the marriage because I’ve felt alone and lonely. Thing got worse when we moved 3 years ago to a new country (For his work) and I didn’t have a social circle, so I got a bit depressed. Now after 3 years of living here, I have found my circle and life has been good.
Last summer my husband joined the gym, stopped drinking so much and got contacts instead of glasses. He did some advance schooling to advance his career, and I was so happy for him, because the amount of work related stress he has been under has been so much, that I thought this was good for him and then also for us. Hahahaa, in retrospect I should have been worried.
In the early January he went away for business and when he came back, he surprised me with a romantic hotel weekend. We stayed in the room all weekend, only ordering roomservice, and I was so happy. He went away again two days after that.
When he came back a month later, I knew right away that something had changed. He wouldn’t tell me anything, so I snooped around his emails (I know it’s wrong) and found pictures of a younger woman. When I confronted him, he admitted that he was having an affair. He said he wanted to work on the marriage though, and when he left again, I thought that we were going to fix this. Until he got to his destination and stopped answering my phone calls or messages. A few days later calling me and telling me that he doesn’t want to be married to me anymore. And for me to please leave him alone.
I did leave him alone for the two weeks he was gone, but when he came home I took him to a hotel (so we could talk without the kids) and I got the “I love you but I’m not in love with you anymore” And he couldn’t stand to be close to me. So he moved out. This was late March. After that he shut down all communication and seemed to be angry with me about everything.
Just in the past two weeks we’ve started to communicate again, and he’s talked about this situation a bit more. He is saying that he’s been unhappy for 4 years and he should’ve talked to me about it, but he was trying to save our marriage, when I didn’t even know it was in trouble. He’s completely re-writing our history and putting ALL the blame on me. Like I was the only one in this marriage. How he’s been so unhappy and then little things started to irritate him and he felt like he started to hate me. And he just had to get out.
He has filed for a divorce and is saying that he doesn’t think he can come back. I guess it’s better than him saying that just seeing me makes him want to throw up? He says that he’s worried that if I wait for him, that I’ll just hurt myself.
I haven’t asked about the OW because I think she’s irrelevant. But I do suspect it’s still going on. Luckily she live in another country too, so they can’t be physically together so much, but I know he has flown to see her a couple of times already.
Even though he has filed for a divorce, there’s a 6 months waiting period before you can finalize the divorce and the clock hasn’t started to tick, as I haven’t signed the notification yet. I’m buying time.
Today he told me we need to separate our finances because he wants to buy a Harley. He has opened a new bank account and I’m almost sure he will start having his pay go there, leaving me quite hopeless, financially.
I’m so confused, he’s obviously in MLC and I want to wait it out, but I feel like he’s in such a hurry to get out of the marriage and our life. He hasn’t even thought of the financial consequences. He thinks that we should keep on co-owning our house and summerhouse, even after the divorce? How would that even work?
Now he wants us to agree on the financial aspects and alimonies, so that he can buy his Harley. He wants me to move out of the familyhome, firstly because it is quite expensive, especially now that he’s gotten himself another apartment. I would just like to stay where I am, in case he wants to come back. If I move out, I will have to downsize and then I’m afraid there’s no room for him to come back. Which is silly, but I don’t know, I just don’t want to let go yet. Any advice? Any encouragement, please! How long will this craziness last?!?
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S3
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sorry you find yourself here Many posters will stop by soon to share their experience with you
You have 3 kids and I would seek Legal help immediately Please do not move or sign anything until you get advice from a good L.
Make sure the kids stay safe The MLCer becomes a terrible parent even if they were once a great dad They ignore the kids and/or can put them at risk usually the affair partner may also have serious issues
I would not allow the kids to be with them
How old is your H?
MLC will take many years-2-7 and some longer
My advise would be to put yourself and your kids first and get legal help right away- don't tell your H you got help-yet Take your name off his credit cards and separate money before he gets most of it- They overspend and have no concern for their future they only want to play --now like a teen
The MLCer usually rewrites history, and displays a lot of the behavior you wrote about
they usually pick sick partners who they feel they can rescue
Do not listen to anything he says.. The crises is not about you or the M It is about him and his issues unresolved from younger years in childhood--but he cant see that he can only see a life that seems fun, less responsible and they are pulled to try to fulfil what was lost in themselves it never works and usually they become broken and worser as time goes by you cant stop him or the crises
The good new is: Many LBS find their way out of the mess to a better life-
Grieve, get support, get legal advice, keep posting and be there for the kids they will be hurt by him moving out take care of you get sleep, eat, rest, read, find a group of woman you can share with or a church or spiritual way to deal
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Get a lawyer, get an order for temporary support, DO NOt make any agreements with him about finances until you have legal representation and advice.
Yes, it sounds like he's going through a midlife crisis but there's no guarantee he ll come out the other side or when he will. If he feels you clinging he'll be even less inclined to come back. Get up on your feet and start living your life AS IF he's not coming back and you are pursuing your dreams. It doesn't mean he won't come back - but he's more likely to if he sees you out living your best life without him. If he thinks you are just waiting around as his PLan B he won't feel your loss - and he needs to feel that.
And - just one question - a big red flag - why on earth did you marry him after only 3 months of dating? Are there any clues there? Most rational people are not that impulsive - but love addicts go for that, and sociopaths may love bomb people like that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong BUT I also wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, you start to realize that your rosy perception of him during your marriage may have been glossing over some serious issues.
Do you recall something happened 18-24 moths prior before bomb dropped ? that something triggered the crisis ? Your husband acts pretty typical as man in midlife crisis. I got bombed 4.5 years ago, husband had affair with a very young woman(his colleague), spent money like crazy, blame me for everything, he claimed that it's our marriage causes all the pain and problem and I'm the worst person he knew... all our sweet history were re-wrote.
He stayed with me for half year after bd then he moved out on May. 2015, I'm living alone now, By Jan.2016 he stopped asking me to sign the divorce paper and during 2017, husband started to stop by every weekend. He is living somewhere in the same town, I don't know the address and I never asked.
I remember he always says - I needs time and I will not come home.
As the law and policy is different from my country to yours, sorry that I could not offer you any help on divorce/separate issue, as kml mentioned, you need someone professional to help you on divorce/finance (I'm not trying to convince you to divorce him)
I'm standing for my marriage and all I did was get a life, moving on and be kind to him and be patient !
Me 46, H 44 married 13 years,no children 2012 spring, my grandma passed away 2014 summer, got bombed 2015 spring, he moved out our apartment 2017 think he is reconnecting but very very slowly...
something I like to add, so sorry; I forgot to mention that husband came from a dysfunctional family, his mom is handicapped and his father had affair for a long time, they fought to each other all time, husband's older bother is the golden boy... he was emotional abused, had a miserable childhood and I learned all the facts after got hit by his crisis, this forum helps me so much !!
Sounds like your h could be in crisis because of all of the things that you have described. He's going to be spending quite a bit of money in the near future. You will begin to see his mirror image, or as I say, the exact opposite of the man that you love. He will regress back to the childhood age that he was emotionally stunted and hopefully will face those demons that have haunted him for many years and accept the things that he could not change and then finally grow up.
As for him staying in contact w/the ow, it's an emotional affair at the moment because of the distance between them. Emotional affairs are much harder to break because they tend to share more of themselves in phone calls, texts, etc. It's a fantasy and he feels that she's listening and validating his thoughts. In other words, she is stroking his ego big time. You are right...she's really nothing more than a band aid to his inner pain at the moment.
Please listen to the posters...do not agree to anything w/o seeking legal advice. Can you afford to remain in your home or will you eventually have to move? If you can afford to stay there, do so unless your lawyer advises otherwise.
Continue living your life to the fullest. If he is in crisis, there is no guarantee that he will return or return as the man you once knew. Try to keep the focus on you, your children and your financials. Come here to vent and seek support.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am sorry for the situation you are in. It sounds very much like H is suffering from MLC. This forum is a safe place with many kind and compassionate people here who offer advice, suggestions, and hard earned wisdom. A lot of times this wisdom will seem and sound counterintuitive, will not feel like the correct thing to do. Post often and ask questions for further clarification, this is a confusion and difficult time for an LBS.
Finances are an unfortunate part, a big part, of this MLC mess. You need to speak to a lawyer - ASAP. You and your three children need financial protection and security. Many MLCers completely loose sight of their previous responsibilities; they throw them away, they run from them. Children and family being a very big responsibility. You mentioned him getting a new account, wanting to separate finances, buy a Harley, etc... He is going to do what he is driven to do, he is not going to seek or ask for your blessing.
Talk to a lawyer, and see what your rights are, what you can do short term for protection, and long term security. Look at this as a business deal that went sideways, and do whatever you need to do for you and your kids. As for separation/divorce gather information about your situation, you need not act on any of it at the moment. However, information is power and knowing where you actually stand is a good thing; and it usually is not near as bad as one first imagines.
Generally speaking, let your H do all the heavy lifting regarding separation and/or divorce. However, first and foremost you must protect you and your kids.
I am sorry for the urgency being conveyed from my post; to me what you have shared looks rather urgent and needs to be addressed soon.
Your H is running from his past, from his demons, from his responsibilities; there is nothing you can do to stop it. It is not your fault. You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him. Give him space and time. Focus on you and your kids.
That is the big one - Focus on you and your kids.
You will get through this Nyla.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
No major words of wisdom here that have not already been told to you. Your H sound like mine did... unhappy for four years but was trying to fix it without telling me. In my mind, this was just about letting resentment and anger build until he felt like he had enough justification to leave. Your instincts around the OW are probably accurate. My H insisted...swore on our children’s lives...that there was no one else despite evidence to the contrary. He was really just biding his time. Our divorce is being filed this month. He is buying a house with his OW that he only admitted to me was an OW at the beginning of March.
I so know what you are going through Nyla. I was a mess when all of this started. All I could think about was getting him back and was beating myself up for not seeing how bad things were. But that has changed over time and it will for you if you follow the advice of the people on this board. Your H is going down a path right now that he fully believes is the right one. The more you fight it, the more positive he will become that he is doing the right thing. As others have suggested, it is imperative you look out for you and your children right now. Get a lawyer. Know your rights and what you are entitled to. GAL and do your 180s but don’t do it to win him back... do it to save yourself.
It’s been eight months since BD and my H moved out. I resisted letting him go for so long but eventually got on board and started to see things more clearly. My H was always away and I was slowly but surely losing myself in the face of his emotional and physical abandonment. I do not miss those days. I do not miss him... at least not the person I was married to the last few years. I was living with the ghost of the man I fell in love with. Once I realized and accepted that, life got a whole lot easier. I have many things to be thankful for and these are the things that I stay focused on. I have good friends, supportive family, a good job and amazing children who love me unconditionally. Let your H go Nyla. Save yourself. You will be very glad that you did.
Get a lawyer, get an order for temporary support, DO NOt make any agreements with him about finances until you have legal representation and advice.
Yes, it sounds like he's going through a midlife crisis but there's no guarantee he ll come out the other side or when he will. If he feels you clinging he'll be even less inclined to come back. Get up on your feet and start living your life AS IF he's not coming back and you are pursuing your dreams. It doesn't mean he won't come back - but he's more likely to if he sees you out living your best life without him. If he thinks you are just waiting around as his PLan B he won't feel your loss - and he needs to feel that.
And - just one question - a big red flag - why on earth did you marry him after only 3 months of dating? Are there any clues there? Most rational people are not that impulsive - but love addicts go for that, and sociopaths may love bomb people like that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong BUT I also wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, you start to realize that your rosy perception of him during your marriage may have been glossing over some serious issues.
I was 20 years old and I was an aup pair in the States, my visa was running out in a few months and he wanted to porpose before that so that I wouldn't think it was because of the visa. We just went to the courthouse and got married and had the "real" wedding a year later. So, I don't think there's anything weird about that, we have been very impulsive in everything we've done together. Like moving across oceans on a few weeks notice.
So in that way him filing for a divorce impulsively didn't surprise me, but I thought that 20 years of history and 3 kids should weigh on the scale as well...
I've lessened contact with him now but because of the kids I have to have some contact still. I wish there was a crystal ball I could look into and know what the right thing to do is. He knows I'm here waiting (because I told him I would until I couldn't anymore) and I don't know how to make him feel that I'm not, without saying it. I don't want to lie either.
Everytime I hear from him I start missing him, and I have started to GAL. I joined the gym, I joined a choir, I've started to spend more time with friends and family. And I have moments when I truly am happy even in this horrible situation, but I still miss him, and our life together. He was also my best friend.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I have a follow up question. I'm so confused. My husband shows a lot of signs for MLC but at the same time when he talks to me he is always nice and even when he blames me for everything that he thinks was wrong in our marriage, he says it quite matter of factly. He wants to have the kids half of the time and so far he has done that also.
I only text him about kids when I have to. He does the same, but many times he also wants us to meet face to face to talk about them. He's drowning himself with work, working 60-80 hours a week. I don't know if the affair is still going, I'm assuming it is as I heard from a friend that the girl has rented her apartment out in Germany, so now my fear is that she's moving to Spain to be with him. Which is insane since they've only known each other since mid February!!!
Could this be something other than MLC? What should I do?
I'm so sad, and I do my best to GAL, but I just want him back so much. I think I was doing better already but now I'm down again.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
No major words of wisdom here that have not already been told to you. Your H sound like mine did... unhappy for four years but was trying to fix it without telling me. In my mind, this was just about letting resentment and anger build until he felt like he had enough justification to leave. Your instincts around the OW are probably accurate. My H insisted...swore on our children’s lives...that there was no one else despite evidence to the contrary. He was really just biding his time. Our divorce is being filed this month. He is buying a house with his OW that he only admitted to me was an OW at the beginning of March.
I so know what you are going through Nyla. I was a mess when all of this started. All I could think about was getting him back and was beating myself up for not seeing how bad things were. But that has changed over time and it will for you if you follow the advice of the people on this board. Your H is going down a path right now that he fully believes is the right one. The more you fight it, the more positive he will become that he is doing the right thing. As others have suggested, it is imperative you look out for you and your children right now. Get a lawyer. Know your rights and what you are entitled to. GAL and do your 180s but don’t do it to win him back... do it to save yourself.
It’s been eight months since BD and my H moved out. I resisted letting him go for so long but eventually got on board and started to see things more clearly. My H was always away and I was slowly but surely losing myself in the face of his emotional and physical abandonment. I do not miss those days. I do not miss him... at least not the person I was married to the last few years. I was living with the ghost of the man I fell in love with. Once I realized and accepted that, life got a whole lot easier. I have many things to be thankful for and these are the things that I stay focused on. I have good friends, supportive family, a good job and amazing children who love me unconditionally. Let your H go Nyla. Save yourself. You will be very glad that you did.
(((HUGS)))
Oh my goodness, your situation sound a lot like mine. My husband has travelled a lot for work for almost 14 years now. And in the last years I have felt lonely. And now I have been trying to figure out if this is the marriage I want to save, because of this loneliness. But I always come back to square one, that yes, he is the man I want to be with, and I know we could have a great marriage, if we would get a chance. But also sometimes I wonder if this is a blessing in disguise, my out as well as his.
Like I've said, I wish I had a crystal ball....
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Breathe! Whatever is going on w/your h, you have to give him space and time to figure things out. The problem is that you didn't break him, so you can't fix him. He has to do that all on his own. You are doing the right thing by only texting him when it is necessary.
You have to try to keep the focus on you and your children. It's going to be difficult, but you have to continue living your life as if he may not come back. I know you want him back right now, but you do not want him the way he is. Nyla, you can do this!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Nyla79.. I am also a newbie on here... Our stories are so similar..... My H told me was trying to be happy for the past few years.. basically all our married life, I must have been blind because I certainly didn't see that one coming... He also moved out and we had little or no contact for 6 months..Until last week.. He has been in contact with OW since he left, he has been abroad with her on 2 occasions that I know of...He swore to me on Saturday last, he was not in a relationship, it is only casual and that he doesn't want a relationship!, she is a ''distraction''...He is going to counselling, which I am beginning to think is only a smoke screen.. For years he wanted a camper van.. and last year we were in financial position to get one.. He designed the lay out inside and really put a lot of work into it... We got the van last June and he left in August!!!He was ''unhappy'' all along and getting the camper was him trying to be happy!! I now have the van, and when I said he couldn't have the van when he wanted because I wouldn't know what he would be doing in it.. He did not like it... It is very obvious he is still very much in replay and not thinking about the consequences.. But I am now starting to accept what he says he wants and move on.. I meeting with a psychotherapist next week and I am upskilling, which will be a my ''distraction''... Their behaviour is baffling..it is hard to get your head around the fact that this is the man you married... Will he ever come out of it.. I dont know... But I am 9 months on and nothing has changed... ''you didn't break him, so you cant fix him''!
Everything you are feeling is normal-- It hurts a lot in the beginning but as time goes on we heal-
As I look back I am grateful my XH left- we were not in a good M and being with him was difficult at times even b4 MLC he was an unavailable man at that time I didn't realize that and only wanted him back-
The thing is you will know more later- right now is a good time to create new acticities for you and the kids Be very available to the kids stay busy make friends, get therapy, post read eat rest and sleep create a good energy in your home for you and the kids and trust in God or whatever spiritual beliefs you have-to get you all through this get a L advice and know your rights-
heal and it will get better as time moves on
treat you H kindly , be cordial but put yourself first as he is putting himself before you and the kids and the MLCer is manipulative and lies do not trust him at all-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
So again my morning started out with craziness. I haven't really told people about my husbands affair or our crisis. Firstly because I think it's private and secondly we moved away from my homwtown 3 years ago, so I was hoping I didn't need to. My husband still travels to my hometown regulary. Now I heard from my sister that people from his work know about our separation and of his girlsfriend, which in a small town means that everyone knows.
I'm so angry and hurt (again) if he was going to go public with this, I would have wanted to know. Now I want to call him up and confront him, or at least let him know that EVERYONE knows now too. I don't think he has openly talked about his new girlfriend, but people have probably seen him with her on his trips. He has always been very careful about his reputation and I think it would bother him that people know. But most importantly it bothers me that my family now knows before I got to tell them.
So before acting I'm asking you all, should I say something or just not react? It does bother me because I was going for a visit to my homwtown in June, but now I really don't feel like going. I don't want to answer questions about my marriage.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
My, at the time W, went public with OM days after she left. Flaunting him around our small town - everyone knew. This behaviour didn’t last too long, around a month; then getting no more reactions she stopped.
It looks to me like your H didn’t go public, he just got sloppy sneaking around with OW, and perhaps told a few people around work. Of course that’s all it takes for gossip to spread.
You should not talk to H about this. No reason to confront him, he may not have gone as public as you suspect, and your confronting will just feed his justifications about what he is doing, and you will get more blame. If he did blow the lid off and went public, well, let him. Who cares! Confronting in this case would be just arguing, and he will blame you. Not many winning paths here are there. So let him go, let him do his thing, and focus on you and your kids.
You should speak with your family. If they have heard rumours you could let them know the facts. They probably are concerned and care, and really don’t know what to do. You need not go into all the details, or you can confide about it all, or you need not even do any of this - it really depends on what relationship you have with the family member(s).
I suggest you address whatever they already think they know. You didn’t reach out to them, waiting to inform them at a later time, so I am guessing your relationship is not one to confide with them.
As for your hometown. I see you now feel like you don’t want to go. Feeling are fleeting. You say you don’t want to answer questions about your marriage. Ok, I get that. That aside, why did you want to go before you found out about everyone knowing? That reason hasn’t changed.
It takes work and mental assertiveness to keep his MLC from affecting you; from affecting your mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual self. Detachment is necessary. Placing some separation between you and him in thought and language helps. You’ve been married for a long time and see the two of you as a couple, as one unit. A perfectly normal and understandable view. You need to change that and place some separation between you two. An example:
Originally Posted by Nyla79
So again my morning started out with craziness. I haven't really told people about my husbands affair or our crisis.
How about:
Quote
So again my morning started out with craziness. I haven't really told people about my husband’s affair or our and his crisis.
It is his affair and his crisis. Not your’s. Do not take it on. Do not get drag into it. It is not our’s.
When you go, and I mean when not if, when you go to your home town and someone asks you about your marriage. Just tell them H filed for divorce. You don’t even have to tell them that much, but this is the truth and it quashes rumours.
I feel for what you are going through. It is not an easy the path you are on. Keep focusing on you and the kids. It will and does get better.
Stay strong.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I'm sorry you are here and going through this unwanted journey. You are in good hands here, as there are kind, considerate people that have successfully navigated this journey that will give you good advise. Here's a few things:
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Now I want to call him up and confront him, or at least let him know that EVERYONE knows now too.
This is useless. I did this to my H when I found out he hooked up with his OW again after he moved out. They will downplay and lie, so don't bother. He certainly knows that people are aware of what's going on. He probably doesn't care.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
So before acting I'm asking you all, should I say something or just not react? It does bother me because I was going for a visit to my hometown in June, but now I really don't feel like going. I don't want to answer questions about my marriage.
You have nothing to be hiding from. This behavior is on HIM, not you. Further, you don't have to answer any questions about your marriage. It's nobody's business except yours. If questions arise, you can just say "it's a private matter", and change the subject. Don't let your H's behavior dictate your actions or plans. Go on your trip, and have a terrific time!
Thank you so much DnJ and Grace21! Even though I wish I didn't even know about this forum, reading all the threads and getting answers helps so much!
Especially DnJ's correction to my writing, what a lightbulb moment! Such a simple thing and I didn't even realize I was doing it. Even when I know it isn't my fault he's acting the way he is, my initial reaction was of horror of what will people think of me now, because he has been such a good man, that obviously they will blame me for his affair. What a crazy way to think about this. And it doesn't really matter what people think, in the end.
Thank you for helping me thru this day!
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I felt so much shame around my XH MLC and abandonment It was so hard to even think about telling anyone the truth --until I did therapy helped a lot
Once the shame is out of the bag it dissolves, and unfortunately MLC is everywhere so people understand
I was so concerned about the failure of my M at the time and being judged then the same thing happened to my cousin and I could reach out to her with understanding-
My friends would be amazed at the way I handled my xh at the time and could not understand my compassion and forgiveness-and willingness to restore if possible-
Hang in there- you are doing really well- even though you cant see it yet
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Why is it that in the first few weeks after BD I was a complete mess, and then kind of got myself together again and was sure that I was going to make this work. Now after my parents visited me last week, I've become more of a mess again. My mum thinks I should let go and forget about my husband and I'm only hurting myself if I wait for him. She says I can never truly forgive him. It actually got to the point during my mums visit that I had to ask her to leave my house and go and stay at my sisters. Her "support" only made me feel worse. She thinks I should be angry at my husband and show it to him too. She doesn't understand what midlife crisis is and I got tired of explaining it to her.
Husband called yesterday and said he wants to get together because we need to talk about some things. He said he would call today and we can set up a time to meet. I'm always a bit worried when he wants to talk. He's not mean to me, but I'm always worried that there's going to be another bombdrop, even though nothing could be worse than what I've already heard. Except maybe if the OW is moving here to be with him.
I miss my husband and my best friend and detaching and not being in contact is soooo hard. I've bought MIcheles book Divorce Remedy but it still hasn't arrived, so I'm desperately waiting for it. Even though I know I have a long road ahead, I'm still so impatient.
Can there be milder MLC's? Because my husband has a lot of symptoms, but he's not mean to me or hateful, like he was in the beginning right after BD. And it has only been 3 months. Whenever I call him (only about kids etc) if he can't answer he always apologises when he calls me back. That one time when we talked on the phone and he wanted to separate our finances, the next time he called he apologised for the conversation and that it turned weird. (Even though no one got upset during the conversation) He wants to take care of the kids. I just don't know. He confuses me.
Also about not contacting, should I contact him more since he seems to be ok with me calling or texting him? Like today if he doesn't call me about getting together, should I call him? In our marriage we texted and called each other a lot, and I think we were both equal in it, but maybe he initiated more contact, so should I now pursue him more, as I've only let him be for now.
I wish this was simpler...
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
This MLC thing is called a rollercoaster ride, that is exactly what it is. Trying to explain MLC to relatives and friends is futile.
Unless they go through it themselves either as the one in crisis or the LBS, they won’t understand.
3 months in and you are at the very start of this ride. My H came home nearly two and a half years later. I didn’t hear from him for a year and probably wouldn’t have for a lot longer but for me being diagnosed with breast cancer.
We were in touch for over a year before returning. I found that year of NC easier and used that time to reflect and work on myself. I’m still doing that and always will.
I really wouldn’t contact him if he doesn’t show. I know it’s hard but honestly only do so in emergencies.
Let him get on with his journey and let him do all the leg work.
If you want him to eventually return, how you conduct yourself is paramount and pursuing him is a definite no no.
Its been a week or so since I posted... I think I'm starting to feel better about myself... starting to see the wood for the trees so to speak....I started seeing a Psychotherapist on Monday last... I had a good cry.. which helped a lot... He told me to feel my pain and anger.. which is where I am at the minute - ANGRY... He wondered why I spoke so kindly about my H... after what he did and when he left, just after a miscarriage.I suppose, I understand that he is going through a MLC... and the person that is there now is not the person I married.......But at the same time I want to detach completely from him... let him go.. But I cannot get the picture of him and the OW out of my head...He has spoken respectfully to me, apologises for doing this to me, I dont deserve it etc.....''loves me'' just not ''in' love... How can I turn my thoughts away from them... I imagine them all happy and having a great time together and it just drives me crazy... I need help to get those thoughts out of my head... I know I cant fix him, but I feel like I hate for him for being with someone else...
It is a very hard place to be.. he feeling of rejection....I know on every level I deserve better...
I'm here again. My H just came by, he said he wanted to talk about the kids and finances.
As soon as he came in I knew he wanted to have sex, and weak as I am, it did lead to it. Even though he was saying that we should stop and this shouldn't happen again. He was the one who initiated it.
After what happened he got up and said that we need to talk about the kids, and that he feels he should tell them that he is seeing another girl, firstly because they hear him talking to her on the phone. And I said that he should make sure they don't hear him then. And then I asked what the secondly was and he said he doesn't want to talk about it I asked him to tell me since he started and then he told me that the girl is moving here. She's actually moving from Germany to Spain to be with him!!! What is wrong with these people?!? And she's moving in with him.
I said that he needs to leave, and that I will talk to him about this when I don't feel so emotional about it.
I was kind of expecting it, but hoping that I was wrong. In a way I hope that this relationship will die off faster when she moves here, but at the same time, how can I stand for our marriage if he moves in with this girl? What do I teach my daughters if I just wait for him to come to his senses? That a man can treat you any way he wants to and you just sit and wait? And her moving here, what are the chances he will come to his senses?
And why the heck did he want to have sex with me before telling me this???
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
One of the most important things is your health. If he is seeing someone else, please, please make an appointment and get yourself checked out. You do not have any idea if he is passing on the gift that keeps on giving. No more sex w/him until he is back home for good and has been checked out by a doctor.
Cake eating is very easy for them, but it keeps us confused and right where they left us. He wants to know that you are still there waiting for him and that is called Plan B. You are more than Plan B....you are the Queen and should not allow this man any more cake. If he wants to eat cake, then he'll need to get it from his affair partner, not you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Why did he want sex with you? Other than the stereotypical idea...he has sex because he wanted it. These MLCer follow their emotions. They are mixed up, change from minute to minute, confused, lost in reality, morals, relationships, etc... My W has sex also because she wanted it; it just wasn’t with me.
My W did initiate sex before BD, while she was secretly seeing her boyfriend. Regardless of gender, having your spouse betray you - hurts! I do remember how deeply that cuts the loving LBS. (((Nyla)))
Nyla, put a stop the cake eating. You are worth much more than that. And you are a lot stronger than you feel. Make this boundary rock solid.
Currently, H is not invested in the marriage. So he doesn’t get you. You are not just sitting around waiting for him. You are moving forward.
What do you teach your daughters? Understanding, kindness, compassion, empathy, and forgiveness. You show them how to be strong, and it’s ok to be weak. You show them how to let go without vengeance. You show them hope, you show them love. You show them how to be a strong stable woman. You show them you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Yes I knew it was stupid even before it happened, I just couldn't help myself because I wanted it too.
I have now called him and told him we need to continue the talk we started. We planned to meet up tomorrow or Sunday, and when we do, I will tell him that this will not be happening anymore. I mean he was saying it yesterday, but I will state my boundary with him tomorrow.
As the OW moving in, I don't really care, in a way. I'm just concerned about the kids and how they will react to it. But maybe this will make more sense to them when they find out. I'm still amazed about what kind of a person moves their whole life for a married mand with 3 kids...
DnJ <3 I think I'm falling for you a little bit, you have such a way with words.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Please forgive yourself-and let it go try not to put yourself in that position meet him outside the home to talk or by phone We will make many mistakes on the MLC journey-just learn from it
I would ask for time to allow the children to work through the separation b4 introducing them to OW
I would ask if he could pick the kids up on his visits (I think they are young?) and bring them home or visit them at the house and you go out without OW present for now
AS for ow- I believe the MLCer lies to them as well-
Here he is having sex with you while OW is on her way to live with him not sure how OW would feel about her new man cheating already so he is not accountable to anyone. They are usually people with very low standards, self worth or psych or addiction issues I would want to protect my children if possible from OW-
some woman also do not see anything wrong with dating a married man- especially if the man tells them some stories about being separated or D-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I agree you need to finish that conversation with H. And I like peacetoday’s suggestion of having the conversation away from the house.
Have you spoken with a lawyer?
How much do your kids know about what is going on? Or do you think they know? Kids are a lot more perceptive than we give them credit for.
D14, D12, and S10 will have questions. You are their support. You are the strong stable parent. Talk to them, let them ask questions, and answer them truthfully (age appropriate of course). They have a path to walk as well; their lives are changing too. Be their beacon. Keep shinning.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
What a weekend. My daughter (12y) called me Friday and told me she wanted to come home from her fathers’ house. She seemed quite distracted but didn’t tell me why. On Saturday she told me that she knows her dad has a girlfriend. She had been watching Netflix on his iPad and had seen his imessages to the OW. She told her older sister as well, and now the girls are so angry with him.
He tried lying to her about it and told her that this woman came along after we had separated, but my daughter didn’t believe him, of course she didn’t, she saw all the messages.
Now I’m a bit concerned what kind of messages there has been, I’m sure they’re not appropriate for children’s eyes.
This is so hard, the hardest for me is when the kids are hurting, and now that they’ve been hurting this weekend, I’ve been hurting so much too. I feel like the sadness is just now creeping up on me, it’s been almost 3 months since BD. Maybe I’ve just been in shock until now. I feel hopeless, I don’t think he will ever come back, not after how much damage he has left behind. And that makes me sad. Before this, he was such a good husband and such a great father. I want to stand, but I don’t know if I can and at the same time, I have no other choice but to stand. I’m so messed up.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Nyla one very small thing that helped me that I hope helps you too -
When you say "I want to stand, but I don't know if I can" just remember you don't have to decide today. You don't have to decide tomorrow. In fact, you may not ever need to actively decide. All you need to do is put one foot ahead of the other and move forward every single day. One day you'll just know one way or the other what the best thing to do is. But it is too early to add pressure to yourself on top of everything else.
I know this is so hard and you feel like you won't come out alive. You will.
It’s not shock; that wore off in the first week or so. You are stepping out of denial.
Denial is a needed mechanism to protect one’s psyche; when facing too much pain or trauma the mind will ignore it until it can process it safely. This is healthy and natural, you are ok.
As more and more is revealed to you, more and more feelings and emotions will surface. And yes, you will feel more mixed up. Keep to your path, and remember this is a counterintuitive time - focus on you and your kids. Even as your mind is wanting something else, your H.
How was your conversation with H about boundaries?
I think you are going to have to follow up and lay down another boundary regarding “his” devices that have messages from his girlfriend. He needs to get devices for the kids that are just for them.
If you had a good strong conversation before, let him have it. Even if you didn’t you need to get some rules in place. Thankfully no pictures were discovered. I am sure you can see why the need for some ground rules. Something along the lines of your girlfriend, her messages, pictures, etc... are not allowed around my children. Post some of your ideas and we can fine tune them with you if you like.
As for D12 and D14 (since D12 told her), talk to them. Does S10 know? I would suspect he will find out soon, one of the girls will tell him - and that is ok. The four of you do not need secrets, or worse lies, amongst you. Open, honest sincere communication with your children will help them a lot. They need truth, love, security, that person they can count on - you. Become the best Mom you can be.
Right now they know he has a girlfriend. And they know, or suspect, she was in the picture before your separation. It is ok to tell them the truth. Answer their questions about the timing. It is ok. Facts are better than fiction. They will be looking for answers, and will make something up, if you do not help them.
A caution for you. Do not demonize their father. Just be factual and show kindness. This, as it turns out, is as much for you as it is for the kids. However, your children really do not want to lose their Dad. Unfortunately that is out of your hands. He is going to do whatever he is going to do, and there will be consequences. Make the relationship between you and your kids really good.
It is not your job to foster or maintain a relationship between H and his kids. It is your job not to destroy it.
A quick bit on standing. Yail is correct, you do not need to decide today or tomorrow. What you are looking at deciding is actually standing down. Standing appears to be your default, like it was for me, and probably most of us here. You always have a choice, however your healthiest choice right now is to stand until you are healed enough not to. Then you can actual decide what you want to do.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Like so many others here have said before me, this board is such a lifesaver. Even though I sometimes worry if I hang out here too much. It just gives me strength to get thru the days sometimes.
Yail, what you said actually made me feel better, I haven’t really thought about it like that. It seems like everyone around me are trying to rush me to a decision, and I just feel so overwhelmed with everything that I can’t decide yet.
DnJ, we didn’t have the conversation with H yet. As this event unfolded on Friday we haven’t been in touch all weekend. My girls know that she was in the picture before our separation, and they were quite hateful in their texts to their father. Calling her names and just mean. I told them that they have a right to be angry with him, but they shouldn’t let that anger linger. I told them that he is in crisis, tried to explain it the best I could so that they would understand. D12 was ok to talk about it, the D14, not so much.
H had told S10 over the weekend. I don’t think he knows she was around before separation. He seemed to be ok, he was asking if I was ok about it.
What I know now is that she is moving in with him next month. D14 refuses to go to her fathers house, D12 wants to meet with him today. She wants to talk with him. She says she feels bad if she doesn’t talk with him. I’m not so sure how that will go. I wouldn’t want them to go to his house anymore when the OW moves in, but I can’t really stop them either, can I?
Boundaries, yes. First boundary. We will not be intimate with each other (unless you’re committed to working on our marriage ) Add the marriage part or not? Or I was thinking about saying the I feel that it is disrespectful toward everyone when we are intimate and he’s not willing to work on our marriage. Any suggestions how to word this are appreciated.
Second boundary, which I’m not sure how to do. I don’t want the OW around my kids, but if she’s moving in, how can I stop that? Other than not letting the kids go to his house.
Phone calls and interactions with H are now pleasant, he doesn’t talk about our M and I don’t ask either, so he’s not mean or disrespectful to me in those ways. So in those areas I don’t feel like I need to set boundaries.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
A question about the ring. I don't know what to do with it. I keep on taking it off and putting it back on. Is this normal or just me? What have you guys done? To me it symbolises our marriage, from here to eternity, but right now it's more from here to MLC. I don't know. Today I want to put it back on.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I would not bring up the intimacy issue with him unless he approaches you and you will probably be meeting in public places if you need to talk about issues
If he makes advances : maybe say something like-and get some others opinions also to pick what feels right for you without blaming him for his irresponsible behavior
start with a positive like :I appreciate ---anything he does that is nice example: even the simple stuff--I appreciate you calling the kids before bed-That is so helpful(whatever he does) then....
I feel it is best for me and the kids to keep our co-parenting relationship just that- no blaming no shaming just a real fact
About the kids:
I set real strong boundries and did not let my kids go the XH home they never met OW
He had to come to our home to see them-and MY xh didn't fight me on this My 5 year old had severe allergies and I really fought --my xh gave up-
so I may not be the best example but my kids always came first and looking back, I am grateful he left MY kids are grown and doing amazing-
Each of us has to choose what is best and every choice has a consequence--for good or not-
I would always advise any LBS to Put those kids first and whatever the consequence with the MLCer...it is just that-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I just had a talk with S10. H had told him about the new girlfriend and had even called her with him. The OW invited my son to go to movies with her to see Spiderman. My son loves all things Marvel. My husband had also told my son not to tell me that he knows about the girlfriend.
He had also asked both D12 and S10 to lie to me about missing school last week. He had a meeting and couldn’t drive the kids to school, so he just let them miss it!!!
How do I state a boundary of not asking the kids to lie to me. That is not fair to them. Makes me so angry, and it makes me angry that OW has talked with my son. He seems a bit gloomy but doesn’t really want to talk about his emotions.
I wish my book would show up already, I ordered DR almost two weeks ago and the delivery time is killing me!
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
A question about the ring. I don't know what to do with it. I keep on taking it off and putting it back on. Is this normal or just me? What have you guys done? To me it symbolises our marriage, from here to eternity, but right now it's more from here to MLC. I don't know. Today I want to put it back on.
This is very normal, many of us have fought this question. I know I did. On and off is normal, and it is also okay if this changes day to day.
For me, I looked at my hand and asked whether looking at the ring brought me strength or pain. That helped me decide what was best.
In my situation I took my engagement ring off first, since that was the ring with deeper memories of happy times. I wore only my simple wedding band as a subtle reminder that I married, though not in an active relationship. After a time this did not seem to be accurate so I took that off as well. It was a slow process.
If you do find that you take your rings off here's a little trick I did: Keep your nails painted. I tend to not have painted nails as my default, but with the absense of my rings I was shocked every time I saw my hands. So I painted my nails for a long while as I adjusted to my new look. It actually helped!
You can also get another ring and place on that finger. Maybe find something new to symbolize a new you. Nothing says that you have to leave that finger bare.
Also, I would sit down and have a nice chat w/your children and explain that honesty is the way to go. Advise them that you will always be there for them and listen to them and advise them what is proper and right. If they start lying now, that will become a habit and it's not a good one. Your h should be ashamed of himself for putting the kids in the middle to lie about what goes on over in that hot mess of a place.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Like job said. Sit down with your kids and explain that honesty is the best policy. Ensure them that they can always tell you the truth, no matter what. Kids know right from wrong, know proper, moral, and just. However, the MLCer usually becomes a terrible parent, and kids need a guide, and assurance what is correct. It is pretty difficult for a 10, 12, or 14 year old to go against their parent on a fundamental level.
I think you explaining Dad’s behaviour to them, in a way they are comfortable with, is a good idea. It allows them to understand and accept what he is doing, and accept that they do not have to go along with it. Acceptance is not condoning. They just interact (or not) with the person in front them, the person who Dad is at the moment.
Your daughters are already angry with Dad, and son knows it is wrong to lie. Let them work through their emotions. You being the stable parent will get some extra venting directed at you. They really can’t vent at Dad. It’s ok, they need to get it out.
As for my ring. I do love the look of it, and miss wearing it. Thick gold with 11 diamonds. I never painted my nails, so I can’t really say if that works or not - I’ll have to take Yail’s statement as fact.
In my profession I don’t wear jewelry. Gold and precious metals are pretty darn conductive, not a good thing with electricity, rings and watches turn red hot in seconds. They are also quite the entanglement hazard. So, I placed my ring in the storage container on my dresser. I tried it on a few times over the past 21 months, seeing how it still shined and glimmered in the sun, but never actually wore it. When I took down the pictures around the house, I put my ring away too.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
First boundary. We will not be intimate with each other (unless you’re committed to working on our marriage ) Add the marriage part or not? Or I was thinking about saying the I feel that it is disrespectful toward everyone when we are intimate and he’s not willing to work on our marriage. Any suggestions how to word this are appreciated.
I would not add anything about until you’re committed to working on our marriage. It puts you on a shelf for him. Shows him you are waiting for him, content as Plan B. You are not Plan B!!!
Also MLCer have minds like Swiss cheese, full of holes. They really do have short attention spans and cannot remember what they are supposed to do. With this mind, your statement is a little to convoluted for him, not direct enough. The other idea - I feel that it is disrespectful toward everyone when we are intimate and you’re not willing to work on our marriage - similarly too much for his addled brain.
It should be something direct and current to him and his behaviour that you don’t want.
H, you have a girlfriend. You are not having sex with me.
I agree with peacetoday, have your conversations in a public place. And you don’t need to go out of your way to initiate this boundary. If he bring something up, then say it. If not, and he may not ever try again while OW is closer by, then let it be.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Second boundary, which I’m not sure how to do. I don’t want the OW around my kids, but if she’s moving in, how can I stop that? Other than not letting the kids go to his house.
It is difficult to just say the OP cannot be around the kids, and it’s kind of unreasonable to expect that. There needs to a pretty good reason, like abuse or harassment.
If all H has is visitation rights then it could be arranged for visits just at your house. However, custody many not be solely your’s, and your kids would then be around OW.
Let me try to lessen some of your fears and stresses. In my situation OM is a bit of a dim witted slug of a man (oh how they do affair down, so very down). I had many irrational emotional problems with my kids seeing OM. However, it did become apparent that he was unfortunately a significant person in W’s life. Therefore he is going to be around my kids.
He is not their Dad. He is Mom’s boyfriend, and is treated as such. My kids know just how broken he is. A person that coveted another Man’s wife. A person who stole a married woman. A person who stole their Mom. Of course they also know just how broken Mom is, and how she is not innocent in all this.
OM is just a person, a broken person, but a person nonetheless. He is quite harmless. And my kids learned valuable lessons about accepting people, being nonjudgemental, and forgiving. I did too, and man those are tough lessons.
Perhaps there is a parallel here, mine and your situations.
What you can do is focus on unwanted behaviours - inappropriate messages, telling kids to lie, and missing school. Put your energies into these matter that directly affect the kids.
As difficult as it is, let OW go. She is meaningless, just an escape, a band-aid for a tortured soul.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
very tough thing about the kids--you will have to pray and follow your heart an trust the goodness of God our kids are tougher than we think and they will learn from watching you-
If it were me, I would stall as long as possible with letting them have overnights with OW and H any excuse available--but that is me If they do stay with them, I would watch for substance abuse, alcohol issues and make sure they are always safe We don't know who the OW is or if she is abusive-I would keep a strong eye on this your kids are still young
If keeping them with limited visits is not possible, then learn your rights as far as custody goes, talk to others who have been in this situation, seek therapy or co-parenting counseling if he is willing to discuss some of these issues that you are already having with the lies I agree to talk with the kids openly, be available as they will be confused, be a strong rock for them but it is ok for them to also see you sad,...you can simply say I feel sad without blaming your H or putting him down in any way
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Today has started out better, and yesterday was a good day too. It seems like I get sad on the weekends, where as during the week I can hold it together.
My husband has now changed his salary account, because his salary didn't show up on the mutual account. I'm not too worried about it as I have the court order I can put in if he refuses to pay what he still needs to pay since we haven't agreed on alimonies. I sent him a short message yesterday asking if he was free to do it on Thursday. No reply. I'll wait until Thursday before sending him anymore messages. In actuality I don't have to worry about the bills until following Wednesday, but of course it weighs on me a little bit.
When I see him to pay the bills, I will tell him that the kids should not be asked to lie to either one of the parents. Short and simple and no blaming, I thought? Any opinions?
I thought that for now I won't mention the school, they break for summer in 10 days anyways.
The fact that he brought the kids into this mix with the OW has stirred me a lot, more than I thought but I'm trying to get a grip again and continue on my path.
DnJ, it is exactly that. I'm in some weird way worried that the kids will like the OW, and that she's going to be funner than me. My kids are used to liking new people as we have had Au Pairs in the past, so I'm worried they'll welcome her into the family just as easy as an Au pair. Which she of course is not.
And what about when I have pump into her? How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean? Oh, I don't like her moving down. here.
But that's enouh time for them, today I resolve to be happy and do fun stuff with my kids and not waste anymore energy on the OW or H.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
The MLcer will spend a lot even when they were once responsible with money
I don't know your arrangements
but my XH paid me a good deal of money while separated I separated all accounts and took my name off any shared credit cards We had a joint business at the time of break up that was running well-
What I did not know was the amount of money my XH was spending because he was paying me well.. I didn't realize he was gambling with OW and spending lots of money from our business and not paying the bills from our business and literally draining all the funds I was extremely lucky because my brother worker there also and he helped me intervene to save the business He was also racking up debt on all his credit cards
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
But that's enouh time for them, today I resolve to be happy and do fun stuff with my kids and not waste anymore energy on the OW or H.
Now that’s a good idea!
Originally Posted by Nyla79
When I see him to pay the bills, I will tell him that the kids should not be asked to lie to either one of the parents. Short and simple and no blaming, I thought? Any opinions?
Yes, this has to addressed. If your talking to H, I do like the short and simple approach. And no blaming is a really good idea as well. However, I don’t know how much success your can really expect asking him (remember keep expectation at zero). I would still ask H to not tell or suggest to the kids that they lie.
Your real influence and best efforts will be with your children. H is going to do whatever he wants to do. He may listen to your plea, or he may not. Your children know right from wrong, they have to deal with an entire world of people telling them all kinds of things. H is just another voice. Lead your children well and proper Nyla; have faith they will do just fine. Kids see through things pretty fast.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
The fact that he brought the kids into this mix with the OW has stirred me a lot, more than I thought but I'm trying to get a grip again and continue on my path.
DnJ, it is exactly that. I'm in some weird way worried that the kids will like the OW, and that she's going to be funner than me. My kids are used to liking new people as we have had Au Pairs in the past, so I'm worried they'll welcome her into the family just as easy as an Au pair. Which she of course is not.
And what about when I have pump into her? How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean? Oh, I don't like her moving down here.
I do understand your feelings with this. (((Nyla)))
There is a lot of worry about this new person and how much funner they are. Fear. That’s it. The irrational emotional response to this stimulus. It takes time to get past it.
A few things for you. Do not try to be more fun than OW. Just be yourself. You are fun. You are the MOM!
You should read that again. Actually I’ll type it again - it is very important.
You are the MOM!
Your kids love you.
Children see through fake non-sincere efforts pretty darn quick. So OW really doesn’t stand a chance. You be consistent and raise your kids. Be the parent. They will respect and love you.
You cannot be replaced.
I want you to get in your intellectual car for a few minutes. Really put your emotions to the side and focus on reason and logic. Do you really want your kids to not welcome OW? For her to be no fun? To be mean? For them to hate her?
At first for me, of course that is what I wanted. I was very emotional and upset. I wanted the kids to hate Mom. To hate OM. To hate this situation. But why? What was I hoping for? Of course for W to wake up. Yeah, not going to happen from that.
And then I got to see the next phase of all this. A mother who threw away her children. The hurt and pain my children suffered. I cannot fathom it, my mother never abandoned me. I have seen the fallout, and I can scarcely imagine the feelings that it caused.
As much as it stirs you, ensure you do right for your children. If, and that’s a big if, OW and your kids actually sort of get along, see it as the blessing it is. If H still talks to your kids, wants them, consider it a good thing. So many MLCers become terrible parents.
This is not about OW or H. It is about your children, and how they see the world. Do you want them to really hate Dad or OW? Probably not.
How do you demonstrate this to them? The way you treat OW and H, especially in front of the kids.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
How do I behave? Am I supposed to be nice? Polite? Cold? Mean?
I get it, you are not friends with her, no more than I am with OM. How would you treat a stranger? Mean?
Demonizing her will eat away at you. It is self defeating.
The few times you have to interact with her, be polite and kind, as you would to anyone. From my experience they don’t want to talk or interact with the LBS. You are the wife and the Mom. You have everything the OW covets, and she will never get it. She is broken and not to be feared. The stronger and more healed you become, the more she will shrink away and hide.
I total understand that all this is a bit of a stretch at the moment. So for right now, really limit that contact. You’ll get there.
I do hope this helps. I know how long and arduous this journey is. I suspect your headings are similar to mine. Keep them in focus and keep moving towards them. The quickest way is a straight line through all this quagmire, and it is quite a slog. No worries, this is a marathon and you’ve got lots of time.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I feel like I am becoming such good friends with you all, thank you so much!
I’ve been househunting because I don’t think I can afford to stay in this house after I’m on my own financially. It breaks my heart because all the kids would want to stay, they say this is home, which it is, even though we’ve only lived in this house for 2 years. It’s also a scary thought to think that I’m moving and having to pick the place all by myself.
My oldest daughter D14 is visiting her aunt, my sister. I was messasing her today when she asked for money. I told her that at this point she needs to ask her father as me transferring money to her would take days and she needs it today. Her reply was: Yuck!
I asked her then if she’s heard from him and she said that they had talked 4 days ago. I asked how things are between them and if she’s ok and does she want to talk about it? She said, they’re not in any terms, she's blaah and does not want to talk about it. I then said that remember that I love you and Daddy loves you too, even though it probably doesn’t make anything better right now. And that we’ll talk when we’re together again.
Is it ok to explain midlife crisis to kids? I can’t just say he’s gone crazy to them, lol, even though for them this seems like it. Is there any guides how to deal with this and kids?
Peacetoday, thank you for your answer, I need to separate our finances now too and get an agreement on alimony, so I’m not dragged in with his spending. Especially now that I have no clue how much and what he’s spending.
DnJ <3 Thank you for your kind and wise words again. I wish I will grow and progress and, in the end, have your insight on things. When you asked me to get intellectual, it did help me to see clearer. Of course, for the children’s sake it will be easier if she’s fun and nice and that they like her too. It’s going to be tough on me though. Sigh. But I think D14 is not going to give this woman a chance. She’s very stubborn and slow to warm up to anyone anyway. And now that she knows why H left, she blames it on her (and him, of course)
Is it normal to start at this stage to wonder if he was right? Maybe we were unhappy? I started to think about it at the gym today. Maybe he wasn’t as wonderful as I thought he was. Am I fighting (or standing) because I was rejected? Maybe he didn't treat me as good as he should have. And walking out on me like that, what a jerk. But at the same time, I know these thoughts are not real. He was a good man, not perfect, but who is.
Today I’m supposed to see H and discuss finances. Wish me luck!
I read this somewhere: “Trauma creates change you don’t choose. Healing is about creating change you do choose”
So change, growth, progress, my mantra for this week…
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
It is ok to explain MLC to your kids, in an age appropriate manner. They see the behaviour and need some explanation. The idea of saying he is crazy is a little comical, isn’t it. However, crazy is a pretty apt description of an MLCer’s behaviour.
Dad is having problems, or emotionally unstable, or upset, angry, depressed, etc... all are valid choices of what to tell them. The big thing is to discuss it to the level the kids comprehend.
Me and my kids have used the word crazy when it applied. Now we just refer to all this as - she’s troubled. That is a good fit for where we are now. We went through a lot of descriptive adjectives for her and her behaviour. There are many faces - troubled is a good summary.
I am glad the intellectual focusing worked for you so well. That is an excellent step towards gaining understanding, which in turn leads to compassion, kindness, empathy, forgiveness - you know those goals and headings you want to achieve. And yes a lot of insights will be revealed to you along your path.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Is it normal to start at this stage to wonder if he was right? Maybe we were unhappy? I started to think about it at the gym today. Maybe he wasn’t as wonderful as I thought he was. Am I fighting (or standing) because I was rejected? Maybe he didn't treat me as good as he should have. And walking out on me like that, what a jerk. But at the same time, I know these thoughts are not real. He was a good man, not perfect, but who is.
This is completely normal.
As denial fades away, questions start, self doubts about various beliefs of how things were will creep in, all quite normal and shows healing is taking place.
Your mind is trying to rationalize this. That is what we do. We rationalize the world around us; everything gets categorized and understood - well to certain level. I mean we all understand the Large Hadron Collider, just not to the level of the engineer who designed it (it was an entire team, not just one person, just illustrating ). However, we understand enough to let go of rationalizing about the LHC.
MLC is not a particle accelerator, it is an irrational behaviour driven from unseen and unknown forces from long ago traumatic experiences or pain. Hmmm, the accelerator might be easier to understand.
MLC is irrational. You are rationalizing H’s behaviour. Your mind is creating a reality that makes his behaviour rational or fits the facts. Of course his behaviour doesn’t fit the facts - so (and this is the big part) - you are questioning and could actually rewrite your own history to create facts to fit.
The questions like - maybe we were actually unhappy? Maybe his is right? Maybe he isn’t as wonderful as I remember him? Am I just doing this out of fear or rejection? And so on.
You are creating self doubt and questioning. And you are noticing this, which is a very good thing.
Nyla, please do not lose the truth. I experienced the same things. I have over 36,000 pictures of W and I, our 30+ years together. We were happy! We had a great life! I know that. I believe that. I also have proof.
You also have proof, memories, letters, gifts, cards, and such. However, your own mind is looking on how to reconcile this irrationality. This is what I mean when I say we all need a certain level of understanding before we will move forward.
Granted, BD is a pretty traumatic experience and in an instant you suddenly want him more than ever. A very understandable reaction; it is the whatever is taken away is what you’ll want most, kind of thing. This can augment positive traits and diminish or lessen certain negative traits about one’s wayward spouse. Focusing on you and your kids, allows time for you to settle, find detachment, and see clearer.
I think you can see that if one didn’t realize their rewriting, their background rationalizing of things, one would augment negative traits and failures, and lessen or discard positives regarding their wayward spouse. Creating a past reality to fit all those doubts that are creeping in.
Seek and hold on to the truth.
Our MLCers rewrite their history - augmenting our negatives or even creating ones, and they minimize or ignore any positives. They have to, they are drive to, they need to create facts to fit their ideas, fantasy, and created reality.
Do you see the similarities of the LBS and the MLCer. The cause is different, and we are not in crisis, however we both have pressures to embrace a different reality. The suffering spouse’s pressures are just enormous, while our’s are more manageable, and of course we are the sane and stable person. We can heal well, hold the truth, and thrive.
Our kids also have self doubts and questions. As I said, it is ok to explain MLC to your kids. I truly believe it is needed, they need understanding as well.
With intellectual understanding, you can uncouple fears and worry. That allows acceptance of your feelings and emotions. You can discover your core beliefs and alter, modify, discard, and strengthen them, based on who you really are, who you want to be, and what your choices are.
Understanding, compassion, and empathy are build upon a solid foundation of one’s beliefs. Those are the seeds of peace, a gentle and tranquil life, forgiveness, acceptance, and incredible self growth.
You have stepped onto the path, and are already walking. Keep your headings. Dig deep for patience. Focus on you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you again DnJ, you know how to explain everything so well. I just want to move into a little bubble where you explain things to me and why they are happening.
My meeting with H went really, really well. He seemed like his old self, he was talking a lot, held eyecontact, joked around, so it was a good and confusing meeting. It made me wonder is he really this happy? Is he not in MLC? Could he just be a WAS? And if so is the approach for DB still the same? (I really would need the book to arrive already, I ordered it two weeks ago!)
Even when I stated that the kids should not asked to lie to either one of the parents, he didn't get upset, he kind of made a joke about it, and agreed that it was wrong. He really was just like he used to be.
When the finances came up though, he said he's too tired to talk about the future. I said that we just need to briefly go into it as I would want us to figure out alimonies within the next month. He seemed relieved that I didn't push the matter further. And when we went thru the finances he seemed to be ok with everything and promised to make the transfer to our mutual account.
So I'm hoping that this is good progress for paving the way back eventually. I don't know if I should try to see him more now in the following two weeks before the OW moves here, or do I just continue not contacting him other than for the kids or finances?
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Yes he will appear happy. He thinks he has it all figured out; he has no idea how wrong he is. And nothing anyone tells him will get through. He needs time and space to see this for himself.
Whether MLC or WAS the approach is the same. Focus on you and your kids. Protect yourselves and ensure your financial support. Live like he is not coming back. That doesn’t mean run out and date, it means move forward, grieve, heal, find Nyla, and discover her.
You have done well for paving the way back. He has a lot of boulders in his path, and you have done well not placing anymore. You can’t remove his boulders on his path, that is for him.
I wouldn’t contact him except for emergencies regarding the children. Get the financial part locked in, and give him all the space and time he wants. If he contacts you, talk to him if you want. It really depends on where you are in this process, all these tools do give your best chance at saving M, however their main purpose is saving you, healing you. That being said, detachment, indifference, addiction to H, fear, letting go - I would keep conversations to a minimum with him - you need the time and space too.
I think you have made it through the “how am I ever going to survive this” stage. Continue to move forward, and not sit still. There is a long path ahead of you, keep walking it. You have lots of support.
Hope you have a great day.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I realized today that I've started to dream again. I haven't had any dreams (that I remember) since the BD and now in the past few nihts I have had dreams. I don't know psychology but I'll take it as a good sign.
I'm so grateful for all of you who help me daily, not by just answering my threads, but posting your own. It gives me comfort knowing I'm not alone in this.
I'm going to talk with a lawyer when I go to my hometown tomorrow. Since my husband filed for the divorce in the country where I am from, all the proceedings have to happen there. I've asked him many times if he's talked with his lawyer about alimony. I know he has no idea how much he is going to have to pay, and I know he will probably be upset when he finds out. And this is something I will not back down from, I will take everything that I legally can. I put my career on the backburner, so he would have the freedom to pursue his. And when he gets where he wanted to be, he leaves me.
Yes, I think I'm in the anger state of my grief now. But I figured it's better to vent here, than to him.
He is still being very nice, like today he's coming to drive S10 to a friends party even though it's my week with the kids, so it should be my responsibility. But he's also ignoring my messages about our daughters upcoming confirmation and the party for it. He is not attending the party, which is sad because the party means a lot for my daughter. I just need to make it a great party without him.
I feel better again, but it truly is a rollercoaster and I'm a bit worried about the length that this will take. But I'm trying to follow your instruction and live as if he's not coming back.
Oh, the best news, I got the DR book on Friday!!!! My S10 and D12 were with me when I got the mail, and both commented on how can someone be so happy about a book?????? I'm reading it now, and decided to read thru once and then read again and do the goals etc. Even though so far I think a lot of what I've read doesn't apply to MLC. Like in writing goals and making them short term. At the moment I can't ask anything from my husband, so scratch that, right?
Oh well, time to enjoy the sun and my kids. Have a great Sunday everyone!!!
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I wouldn't ask your husband about whether or not he's discussed alimony w/his lawyer. He most likely has been advised as to what to expect in the way of paying alimony and child support. When you speak to your lawyer, ask him questions because you need to be up on your game as to what you are entitled to and allow your lawyer to do the heavy work for you. Divorce is a business deal and one that requires both parties to have others do as much of their heavy work as possible.
I am sorry that your h isn't attending your daughter's party. He's missing out on some really good memories, memories that can't be redone at a later date. Confirmation is a memorable achievement and one that is shared w/family members. Congratulations to her on her upcoming Confirmation.
You can make a list of short term goals for you and your children. There is nothing wrong w/that. Those goals should be ones that you want to do and haven't had a chance to do for quite some time. The list is for you and will help you keep your mind off your husband and what he's doing.
Good luck with your visit with the lawyer. Be sure to make a list of questions before you go. I'm sure that there will be more questions as you go along and he will be there to guide and support you. The most important thing is to protect yourself and ensure that you and your children have ample funds to live on.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
My meeting with H went really, really well. He seemed like his old self, he was talking a lot, held eyecontact, joked around, so it was a good and confusing meeting. It made me wonder is he really this happy? Is he not in MLC? Could he just be a WAS? And if so is the approach for DB still the same? (I really would need the book to arrive already, I ordered it two weeks ago!)
You will know if it is MLC usually by the way they progress as well as their current choice of lifestyle 1-affair partner--sometimes younger-usually a loser (emotionally)
2-new clothes, tattoos, new cars, motorcycle, hair changes, spends money carelessly, parties, drinks, drugs, gambles, stays up late, new friends, lies, irresponsible father,
3- usually gets worse over time-poorer choices, addictions, debt
Usually it does not matter if it is was or MLC We act the same--and you are doing so well- with your progress-
Im not sure the progress of a WAS others might know but in my opinion the MLC life will consistently go downhill as they reach for a fantasy life that does not bring them the happiness they think it will they continue to raise the anti of destruction--that is my opinion and that is how you will know for sure You will see him living out MLC-and because it takes so long--you will see it clearly as time goes on-
trust the process
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
The Confirmation is important to my daughter but at the same time she's still angry with her dad as they found out about the OW just a week ago, so I think even though it's sad he's missing the party, I think it's good to give her the time she needs away from him.
Peacetoday, I think what you wrote about mlc, does really apply to my husband, sighs...
The kids (S10 and D12) were supposed to go to H today, last night D12 told me she doesn't want to go, because she's still upset with him about the OW. At the same time she said that she doesn't want him to know that this is the reason she doesn't want to go there. She doesn't want to talk about this with him.
She said that she's worried that he will be sad or angry with her (poor thing considering her fathers feelings, when he clearly isn't considering anyones feelings) I told her that her thinking like that does show compassion and maturity but that she is not responsible for her fathers feelings. And shouldn't worry about them. He will love her, whether she goes to his house or not. And if she needs time to be ok with this OW, she can take all the time she needs. She then told me that H had told her that she's not allowed to be mean to the OW?!? My S told me the same thing last week. So in my D mind he's already taking her side against them.
I told D that she can be herself around the OW. Just like she is with me, with our Au pair, with her dad. She's allowed to show her feelings, the OW knew what she was getting into.
So my question is, what do I say to H about D not wanting to go to his house? Do I tell him the truth and tell him to give her the spance she needs? Or do I lie for her? (I personally think the truth is the way to go)
And how do I tell him that he can't tell the kids that they can't be mean to the OW? They are allowed to be whatever they are, they're children, if she can't handle it, she should have thought about it a bit earlier.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
If I were in your shoes, I would advise your h that your children do not want to go to his place. They don't feel comfortable there especially is the OW is there. I would suggest that he give them the time and space to adjust to the entire situation and allow them to figure things out on their terms, i.e., about the OW and that living arrangement over there.
As for telling them that they can't be mean to the OW....well, she is a grown up and should know that kids say and do things sometimes w/o thinking. Your kids are old enough to know what's going on and that this woman has their father's attention. If she can't stand the heat, then maybe she should not be around when the kids come to visit. Your children should be allowed to be themselves no matter where they are at. I would ask for examples of the kids being mean to her. She may be saying this stuff to keep your h's attention on her and keep the kids in line.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I’d take dreams returning to you as a good sign. It was for me.
I am glad you are seeing a lawyer. Have questions ready, and let them do the heavy lifting. This is just a business deal that’s gone sideways at this point. Treat it as such. You and your kids deserve financial protection and security.
You may want to ask about the custody rules for where you live. Just to know what options you could exercise. Kids who don’t wish to see or visit the other parent, depending on age and other factors - hard to say what could happen. It is best to ask those questions and find out. I was surprised at the rules here. Of course I never really had anything to do with those rules before so why would I understand them.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Yes, I think I'm in the anger state of my grief now. But I figured it's better to vent here, than to him.
Yep.
Glad your DB book arrived. There is a lot of good information in there.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Even though so far I think a lot of what I've read doesn't apply to MLC. Like in writing goals and making them short term. At the moment I can't ask anything from my husband, so scratch that, right?
I know what you mean. An MLCer is pretty far gone and a lot of those ideas and suggestions... well it gets complicated.
As you stated a lot of what you’ve read doesn’t apply. Hmmm. Yes and no. You can see how some advice just wouldn’t be successful at this stage. So it doesn’t directly apply, right now. However, seeing that, you see where he is and what has to happen, where he needs to get to, in order for the advice to be successful, so you learn and accept - therefore that does applies, it is just for you and your growth.
Writing goals and short term lists. Make them for you and your kids.
And you are correct. Asking your H, putting pressure on him, yeah, not recommended.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
So my question is, what do I say to H about D not wanting to go to his house? Do I tell him the truth and tell him to give her the spance she needs? Or do I lie for her? (I personally think the truth is the way to go)
And how do I tell him that he can't tell the kids that they can't be mean to the OW? They are allowed to be whatever they are, they're children, if she can't handle it, she should have thought about it a bit earlier.
The truth is the way to go. There is more than enough lies from his side of the street.
Telling H what D12 is feeling is one thing. Telling H what he has to do - “tell him to give her the space she needs” - is quite another. MLCers are irrational emotional rebellious adolescents, telling them to do anything usually doesn’t work and your get the opposite result, or a completely sideways result. I mean wow, some of the stuff they do. It doesn’t even make sense. You ask for A, so you might expect they will rebel and you would get B - but no - you get cucumber. What?!? Cucumber? This does that even fit in with what we are talking about. I said you need to do A, and I get cucumber? What the... Where was I? Oh ya, telling him to do stuff. Oh and they really have Swiss cheese minds, just full of holes.
So instead of telling, just explain D12’s feelings and state she needs some time and space. This was just sprung on her, it is quite a shock.
You can’t control what H does. All you an do is say what D needs. What he does with that is up to him.
From me experience an MLCer doesn’t want responsibility. They really DO NOT want it. After my W (at the time) left, she got a job at the local hospital and then another other at another hospital in next town over. Jobs, with benefits, pensions, good wages, and steady hours. She quit both, because she couldn’t come and go as she pleased.
She, at first, also demanded to see the kids. This didn’t last long either. She saw them once a week for about 6 weeks, then it stopped.
They want their freedom, and responsibilities tie them down.
Explain daughter’s feelings and leave the ball in his court. He might just make decisions that align really well with everyone, if he is not told to do so.
As for OW.
What I told XW when she was trying to get everyone to like OM and go along with her new life. The kids have their own hearts and minds, have their own morals and values, know right and wrong - they will feel what they feel. You raised them really well, you know this. Each are their are their own person, and will make up their own mind.
H is being childish. He wants everyone to go along with him, and make her welcome. Yeah, whatever. Not gonna happen.
Nyla, your children will feel what they feel. And no one should be allowed to quash that.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I also agree with everyone The kids should be allowed to decline an invitation to meet OW
and again I would stall as long as possible creating space for everyone to heal-
I would ask the L for help on this especially if you see any of your kids stressing over this ask the L how you can word it so your H is more willing to agree The kids well being has to come before anything about him
No blame maybe start with a positive.. Then ask for time for all the kids to adjust and heal- maybe ask them if they want some counseling and perhaps a counselor can help them directly express to their dad their limits..so you can be involved at a distance some counseling may help them so much if they are willing
But until a counselor is in place, and it is agreed by everyone,,,I would stall and let him know later when a good meeting time for OW might be
This becomes a business deal from now on- He will be co-habituating with OW outside the M while still M and DNJ is right--they lose interest int he kids over time they want freedom, instant gratification and fun they can no longer be good parents as you can see- and they get worse so because of the ages of your kids.. I would fight for whats best neither he or the OW will care about anything but themselves
I don't know how strong minded you H is or if he will blame you when you set boundries or if he will provoke a huge fight
I would prepare for anything and stay steady, brief and to the point
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I met with H yesterday. I again told him I would talk with my lawyer to get the alimony agreement drafted. He again didn’t really comment on that. He seemed a bit absent minded.
I talked with him about the kids, telling him that they don’t want to come to his house for now and that they need space. He denied that he would have told them that they can’t be mean to OW. I said that I don’t want to argue about it, I’m just relaying what the kids feel and what they’ve said. I said that I can’t tell you what to do, but the kids need time, so it would be good for them if the OW is not forced upon them. When they eventually want to come and meet you, don’t try to sneak her in as well. The kids will ask to meet her when they want to meet her (if ever). He promised not to do this. But we all know what we can do with promises from a person in mlc…
Like I said, he seemed absent and even a bit sad. Completely different from the last time I saw him, which was less than a week ago. I think initially it hurt him that the kids don’t want to go to his house. Especially S10. They’ve always had such a special bond, I think this caught H off guard. Of course he didn’t show it. We agreed that he can ask the kids if they want to have dinner or something with him and see what they say.
D12 was so sad later because she felt like she had hurt daddys feelings. So sad. I tried to tell her that she is not responsible for his feelings and she did what was right for her. If she’s not ready to be ok with this situation, she doesn’t need to be. Poor girl.
I’m dreading the future when it comes to him and the kids because I can see it down spiraling from here. Now he gets his freedom and the OW moves here in 2 weeks. They’ll just sail to the sunset and enjoy life. Yuck!
But again no angry response from him. I barely get any emotional responses. More apologetic all the time. It is really confusing.
I noticed it yesterday when we met. He has started to say sorry about everything. He wasn’t so sorry about everything before, it was more like me to say sorry for silly things. Now for example, every time he can’t answer his phone when I call, he sends a message right away saying he’s sorry and can he call me back. If he send me a short (not rude) message, he calls and says he's sorry. Yesterday when we were talking about the kids and his phone rang, he was sorry, when he needed to take medicine in the middle of our conversation he was sorry. When he suggested something with finances and I didn’t agree he was sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. What is all that about?
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I would not pay any attention to "sorry" let his issues be his- he may be feeling confused and even remorseful they are manipulative and as you see by his moods, they change rapidly Im sure he will want you in his pocket while he explores the new R--just in case
You did great--for the kids you bought time and please stick with it He may forget everything you said already and be asking for kids to meet OW when she arrives- I would hold a firm limit on this one and put all your energy into your healing, and becoming used to being both dad and mom now-His MLC will takes a long time and your kids will need a strong parent for them to go through teen life with He will not be able to adequately be there for them from here on it is you-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Thank you peacetoday. I didn't even think of them as being manipulative, but now that you said it, of course that's what it is.
My D14 send me and H groupmessages once in a while. I think she's desperately trying to show her daddy that we were happy, she usually attaches videos or pictures in these messages. It just breaks my heart. And typical reply from H is: "It's late, silly" She's going thru a heartbreak caused by him and he just ignores her feelings and calls her silly!!! He is a monster.
Up until now, I have been determined to save our marriage. I will stand and wait, no matter what, but in the past weeks, since I found out that the OW is moving in with him, I’ve found myself doubting if this is what I really want. And like I said, I think I’m in the anger state of my grief now. I get angry with my H. Not so that he knows about it, but inside my mind. And yesterday when he sent me a text saying that he can’t pick up the kids today (they were supposed to have dinner with him) because he had such a bad stomach flu / food poisoning, I found myself hoping that he was hurting a lot and would get so dehydrated that he would need to go to the hospital.
I am not this kind of a person, and it shocks me to think like that. It’s just that even though he is civil and nice to me all the time now (Which I still wonder about) he’s still so cold. I made the mistake of reading our old messages from the time before BD, and I still couldn’t believe how wonderfully he wrote to me, just 2 weeks prior. About how he loved me so much and wherever he goes he carries a piece of me with him and could not imagine a life without me.
I wish I could just turn a switch and be done with this. Even though it has only been about 3 months since he moved away, thinking about him moving back in feels weird. I think I have done pretty well with detaching, specially after the news about the OW moving, can one detach too much? I almost feel like I have no interest in DB’ing anymore.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I like to differentiate between detachment and indifference. Detaching one’s uncontrolled feelings from our spouse’s behaviours and emotional state. And finding one’s state of indifference towards our spouse. It just provides small chunks and more clarity, IMO.
Yes, you have done very well detaching. The news of OW moving would push that along really well, along with letting go. You question of can one detach too much; to me sounds like you are entering indifference and experiencing the muting of your feelings towards H - the lack of interest in DBing for example. Not to worry perfectly normal.
This is the time where all the noise from H and your feelings will silence and you can dig within, see who you are, who you want to be, do that inner work, and heal. This is an odd time to be sure. Something most people never get to experience. A time you will look back on and see as the gift it truly is.
A caution for you. Indifference lessens your feelings towards H, a lot. This leave a void, and nature abhors a vacuum. Other feelings will seem larger than they really are, as they fill this now empty space. Temptations, questions, doubts, etc... Stay the course. Feelings are fleeting and it will take time for you to find your center again.
You are doing really well Nyla.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Our healing takes time and it does sound like you are going through the emotional stages and processes of healing Grieving may take 1-2 years-and you may feel both sides of wanting him back and letting him go.... until finally we totally let go for good--I would trust yourself-
He is a different man for now A man who is leaving his family to pursue a fantasy life with a new woman A man who may be reliving a time from his past that is unresolved A man who has no clue he may be in a crises that is fueling his choices A man who is most likely headed toward a path of destruction unless he chooses therapy or intervention-
You are on the other hand are a strong grounded woman one who sees and lives in reality one who will seek inner growth for yourself and them transport that health and growth to your kids-
you can love your H from a distance and train your mind to wish him the best maybe right now you feel anger..it is normal and have negative thoughts toward him also normal-- but you can validate your pain and thoughts, embrace it ,and keep letting it express while also training our minds to think and wish the best for everyone including H
its a discipline..and may feel weird at first but in the end it will allow us to fully detach with love and forgiveness-in time-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I don’t know what I would do without you guys, you give me so much strength! <3 <3 <3
Whenever talking about this situation with anyone here, I always just get encouragement to leave him and people talking bad about him, which as an outsider with no experience in MLC seems to be the only rational thing to do. But it doesn’t really help me in this, when I see how he’s really just destroying everything he’s built.
I met with an old friend of mine, whose husband works with mine. Oh my, the talks around town about him and his girlfriend. He has been very well-respected man and the company he runs, has branded themselves as a very family-oriented business. Now it seems that people are talking about what a joke it is that my H is running the business while openly talking to people about his girlfriend.
I got a call from the school of D12 yesterday. She might have to repeat her grade. I was very surprised as she’s been doing so well in school. The teacher said that in the past 2 months (so after BD) her schoolwork has gone significantly down. I sent a message to my H and we went to see the teacher today. I had sent the teacher email yesterday telling him that H left 2 months ago and that has affected all the kids a lot. At the time I should have notified the school, but I was such a mess myself that I didn’t think about it.
So in the meeting today the teacher explained and showed us how her grades have dropped so badly that she’s failing in 3 subjects. This all in two months!!! And he also said that she has many times cried in school, but when the teacher has asked what was wrong, she has not told him. Listening to this my H just sits there, quiet. When we got out, I couldn’t be quiet. I was calm and not emotional, I just simply asked “Have you thought at all what consequences your actions have for the kids?” His reply: “Nyla, I don’t want to talk about this now” I said no need to, it was just an observation. And let him be. In a few minutes I continued conversation with normal stuff.
When we drove home with the kids, we had a nice ride. The kids and I were joking around. H was quiet other than once in a while laughing at our jokes.
He’s standard reply to everything seems to be "not now". He doesn’t want to talk about anything that has to do with his leaving us. Not the future i.e. custody, alimonies, assets, nor the kids and the effect this has on them. And it’s frustrating, but like you guys have said to me so many times, it will only get worse. So I’m trying to brace myself.
Peacetoday, I wish he would see that he needs therapy. I guess there’s nothing I or anyone can do to steer him that way… I wll try to do as you say and follow my heart, even though it seems to be lost now too.
DnJ, once again, thank you so much for explaining my inner turmoils for me in a way that makes them more understandable. ((((DnJ))))
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
This is mixed up and difficult time, and children are not immune from it. It is unfortunate that you did not find out about D12’s grades earlier.
H’s response of “not now” and putting things off - yeah pretty common theme for an MLCer.
Talk with D12, as I am sure you already are. H’s leaving of course has had an affect, and there could be other factors, derived from her Dad’s behaviour or not. Be kind and listen to whatever D12 has to say.
Does her school, or somewhere close, have remedial summer classes? Perhaps she would be receptive to upgrading those three classes so she can remain with her grade and not be held back.
You can see H. Do not count on him for helping with this, or much of anything really. You dear girl can do it with out his help.
And yes Nyla, most people in real life, do not understand this MLC, or understand the path you are walking. Unless a person has been touched by or involved in MLC, this world is completely unknown to them.
That being said, there are more hurt and healed people out there than one may realize. We bump into them as fate has destined. Maybe to help, maybe to be helped.
Be strong and walk your difficult path. Hold your head up high and be the best you can. Have faith, you never know who you will bump into and why.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You did great not reacting to his "denial" and lack of willingness to take any responsibility
What helped my D at age 12 when her dad left(she is almost 24 now) was sitting with her at the end of the day and just listening to her ..This actually began a great connection with us and we still talk everyday and she shares her life, her goals and dreams with me and her pains
Just listen to her and try to say nothing, just nod and be quiet--validate her life and pain and nod
My xh never wanted to talk about anything either-and many
hang in there
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I’ve had a rough weekend. Nothing really has happened, but I’m having a hard time keeping my emotions in check. I’ve been sad, crying a lot and just missing my H. And I’ve felt this urge to just confront him, talk to him and make him understand.
Whenever we have had rough patches in the past, he has always said “we will get thru this” “we don’t quit” “You’re stuck with me for the rest of your life” (not in a creepy way but in a endearing way)
Why can’t I just say the same things to him now? I know it probably wouldn’t help, but at the same time I keep on thinking that what if it would? I have been pursued him since he moved out, and I think I was a bit of a distancer in our marriage. I don’t know, this is so hard. I did a lot of fun things this weekend, so I shouldn’t have been sad. I went out for dinner with girlfriends on Friday. Saturday I took the kids and met with my sisters family and had a fun beach picnic and dinner together. Sunday I cleaned the yard, and spent the afternoon with my son by the pool. But still H keeps on sneaking into my thoughts, and the OW. Earlier I haven’t really thought of her so much, but knowing that she’s coming soon, it stresses me out.
I reminded the kids that Sunday was Fathers day in the States (my H is an American) and that maybe they want to send him a message, my D14 response was #%&* no! The language she has started to use when referring to her father is really nasty, and I’ve tried to talk to her about it, but she’s still so angry that she’s not letting me really say anything to her about this situation.
I’m leaving to go and visit my hometown tomorrow and we will be gone for two weeks, and when we come back, OW has moved here, so I’m dreading that a bit. I shouldn’t as I know there’s nothing I can do to change this, but still, it scares me and hurts me.
Going home scares me too. I don’t want to talk to people about this, and then going and staying at our summerhouse is going to be painful. That was our mutual dream to have the place where we can be alone as a family and where we could eventually bring our grandkids and teach them how to do all kinds of handy things. Sigh.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
It would not help to say anything to him and may make it worse
I know it hurts and the only way to get through it is to go through it the pain , the feelings, the ups and downs, the confusion ect..
we go through a healing process with 5 stages-- denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance-- sometimes we flow in and out of these stages and back again By having some awareness, you may see yourself in a stage
Your kids will go through their pain and healing as well- again- as long as you are grounded they will probably be ok therapy is helpful for them as well if they are willing-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Nyla, hello. I have been avoiding writing replies to most of the posters of late but did read your thread and just so far felt you were in good hands with everyone else here. And of course, I still do. But I just wanted to say something about your last post --
NOTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY TO HIM WILL BE HEARD BY HIM.
I know EXACTLY what you are thinking and feeling because I have been there and I am sure all of us have. I am in year six of MLC and I STILL sometimes say something to H thinking that he will hear it. Not only does he almost never hear it but generally he twists it into something totally different than what I intended.
If you have a chance, read my last post on Roist's thread, about writing the letter releasing your expectations of your H. I think you really really need to do that. It won't feel any different right away but it will help to articulate it and start working on releasing those things.
Here's the thing that helped me the most on these boards -- I mean, outside of the friendships I made here, and feeling that some friends out there understood me and even liked me! -- it was something I read somewhere that said that we can't change the MLC or do anything about it really. We can only choose to outlast it.
What you are doing now is putting your H in a box. Inside that box, he will do all kinds of nasty ridiculous things with nasty ridiculous people. You can choose to open the lid and take a look but it will only make you feel horrible. The best thing to do is to bury the box in a metaphorical garden and plant some of your favorite flowers over it. And one day if your H wants to, he will dig out of the box, climb those flowers, and come back. YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM COME BACK. Not with words, flowers, rational arguments, nothing. Only he can decide to come back, and at that point, he will either see your openness and forgiveness or will see that the door is now closed. That's the outlasting part.
I am positive that his relationship will end. They always do. That silly little selfish girl is obviously carrying a counterfeit of love. Their R is based and built on lies and on the misery of three other people. It is not possible that anything good could ever come out of it. So you don't have to worry about that being anything real, it will end for sure, though I totally understand your feelings and don't think it's possible for you to believe me at this point no matter what I say.
All you can do is take your thoughts captive when they come, recognize that your heart is gonna ache for a long long time -- and that that is a good thing, because it means your love and your vows were/are real to you.
If you are a person of faith, there are lots more ways to do get through this pain and to surrender your H. But if not, I recommend talking to the trees, the ocean, the garden, the stars. Tell them about your pain, about the injustice of it all, about how it's too much for you and you can't go on with this much pain. Ask them to take your pain and take your H and heal him. Ask everyday, many times a day. Seek to surrender him, and to surrender all your expectations of him.
Then with him -- Stop having real conversations with him. Be kind whenever you can, but without any expectation of kindness in return. Do not encounter the OW, you don't have to and there is no reason to legitimize their adultery. Let H do all the work and don't take anything he says seriously unless it's about making visitation plans. He will say many horrible things. Put those in the box, dig it up if you have to add more of his crazy talk to the box, and plant more flowers over them.
Don't think it will stop hurting anytime soon. It won't. You are just training yourself to outlast it. Even if you don't choose to stand and to take him back one day when he wakes up from the nightmare he dragged you all into, you still need to outlast it.
Sorry you are here. (((Nyla))))
Last edited by Gerda; 06/11/1903:09 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Peacetoday has given you some wonderful advice. And Gerda has beautifully described the outlasting of MLC. She really hit the nail on the head. Lots of wisdom in there.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
My D14 found the OW on Instagram and had sent her messages last night. She was not nice to her, but not really rude either. At first. The message was basically asking the OW why she chose to be with a married man who has 3 kids.
The OW reply was immature and just wrong. She was saying that my D14 needs to talk to her like an adult and respectfully, that D14 doesn't know the whole story, and that's why it's easy for her to blame the OW (I wish I knew the whole story)
She was disrespectful towards my daughter who then lost her cool and sent many mean messages, my D14 told her that she only respects good people and OW is not a good person and that respect is earned. (The OW replied that respect is not earned but jealousy is. (What does that even mean)) In the end my daughter ended the messaging by telling her that if the OW moves in with her dad, she will burn the house down and stab her to death.
This is not the girl we raised, there's so much anger there now. I talked with her and told her that she has a right to feel angry, but she shouldn't waste her time on the OW anymore, she's better than that, and it won't change things.
Now this morning my H sends me a message saying that we need to talk with D14 as she's sending threatening messages to kill people. Basically he is asking me to step in when he feels that D14 is being mean to his girlfriend.
He doesn't know that D14 already told me about the messaging and showed me the texts. I don't know what to reply to him. This is his mess, my relationship with D14 is fine, she was wrong in threatening to kill the OW, but she is also a teenager who's very angry and I already talked with her about it. Any thoughts on what to say or do?
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
D14 has a lot of anger and she needs to release it, to get it out. Threatening OW’s life not a good idea. You need to get this back on track.
Thank H for informing you and assure him that you will deal with D14. Assure him, make sure he knows it, you don’t need police involved.
Next talk with D14. Tell her about MLC. Tell her how her Dad is dealing with some past trauma from his childhood, has changed, and is reliving a time from when his was damaged. Let her know that this hurt / damage from his last is significant, really a big event, usually some abuse or such form an authority figure. This lets her know that she is not destined to experience her Dad’s slip into the abyss.
It also doesn’t hurt to let her know that for the most part Dad’s behaviour is beyond his control. He did try to contain it for a while, but eventually his crisis becomes so great that he explodes and destroys himself and quite a few around him. He is running from his pain, and OW is just a distraction.
People have a need to understand something before they can move on or let go - children are no different.
I would also explain that OW is “usually” a damage person as well. D16 is correct, someone who goes after a married man with three kids - yeah, OW is not a nice person. She is damaged emotionally also.
Now, you can probably see D16 is projecting her anger towards Dad into OW. D16 will have enough anger for OW, all on OW’s merit and actions. And will get much more because D16 cannot risk losing her Dad.
Tell D14 it is ok to be angry, however talking to OW obviously doesn’t do any good. So, you and her need to find her a safe and proper outlet to release her anger. Something physical, sweat it out. Buy a punching bag, go for a run, join a gym, etc...
You and D14 sit down and together block OW on all social media. You can confirm to D14 that OW is what she is, that her views are correct, and D14 doesn’t need to associate with her - on a social platform. She is not her friend, so do not spend your time on her. Eventually she will see OW as just a hurt person, but not for a while
D14 can control only herself. A lesson you will want to pass along a some point. D14 cannot wake up Dad or OW - she only controls herself. She needs to see that, and be responsible for her actions.
Nyla, D14 is grieving. This is bargaining. She is attempting to change the outcome. A good thing. D14 is moving towards acceptance, even though she does not, and will not, see that yet. The bargaining stage is expected; everyone rebels against change, or attempts to bargain against it. She will traverse it. She just needs to realize their are lines she shouldn’t cross.
This is a big topic for you and your kids. The door has been flung open, make full affect of this opportunity. MLC is a horrible painful time, and an incredible opportunity for growth and understanding - even for a child. How you treat someone who is suffering, how you felt during this time and the realization that you do not want to ever make some else ever feel that, that you can only control you, and so on. Just a few examples. Children are thirsty sponges looking for knowledge. Some big life lessons are right there. Most people never look beyond all the pain.
You are blessed Nyla, you have compassion and can teach, show, at least three people how to live better instead of bitter.
This is where you focus. You and your kids.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Totally agree with DnJ Obviously from OW responses.. she is not stable Nothing good can come from any interaction with the OW and again I would guard all the kids from her she only has and will always have her needs and agenda coming first the kids are no one to her-
Talk to D Make her aware of MLC Dad is not bad.. OW is not Bad THey are terribly wounded souls We work to forgiveness The kids have to see you striving for forgiveness Nice words toward H he is a good man..just sick sometimes people get mentally ill not your fault he has unresolved childhood wounds
You become the sounding board of all communication for your kids maybe a therapist also who gets teens and MLC
I would also explain to D the seriousness of threats especially these days- and she can feel free to verbalize her anger and hate of OW to you
Heres where we have to be stronger than we are Even when we are whirling with wounds ourselves---we have to be adult We can give the kids facts in an adult way leaving our emotions for us and our therapist to deal with
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Oh, Nyla, I am grieving for you. (And thank you for the tears on my last response, you should see my tears in writing it!)
My son is the same as your daughter, and same age.
He completely transformed when his dad went crazy. He was eight years old. Then he became a school refuser in 7th grade, missed 75 days of school. Shoplifting and many other things. The key was to keep the lines of communication open. Make sure she keeps trusting you and sees your strength and your ability to forgive. My son is my cross, but I am carrying him while he carries his own cross (that's a heavy load!), and he doesn't even know that he is carrying one or why or how, let alone see any meaning in it.
Tell her you love her constantly. And tell her that you respect her fire and her anger and her very clear sense of right and wrong, and that her morals will make her a great woman. Keep validating who she is -- because she is totally right, she is seeing things very clearly, like Huckleberry Finn choosing to go to hell if that's what he had to do to free Jim.
But tell her also that when she is ready to start thinking about forgiveness, that it will free her, that she doesn't want this terrible lady to change who she is or make it impossible for her to ever see her dad again. But that she can take as long as she wants to think about that, just to know that that freedom is out there one day for her.
DnJ and Peacetoday gave great advice. I would like to add to that -- show her some movies and get her to write. Show her "Good Will Hunting" and "The Four Hundred Blows" and "Ferris Bueller's Day Off." Let her see that adults do some crazy stuff and kids can't change that, even if it hurts them deeply. If she likes to write, have her write her feelings in poetry or work on a film script. Or have her write a short story about a girl just like her, tell her to use any details she wants and fictionalize or don't fictionalize what she wants. Teens love to write when given the chance to write from the heart. If you want, I can even send you some ideas if you tell me if she wants to write poetry or fiction or a screenplay. I am going to paste some below that I found on the internet, for you and her to do together. Give her a really beautiful journal and a really gorgeous set of pens.
Let her know that one day she will be able to know her dad again and that it will be better for her to have her dad in her life, even if she can't respect or understand his choices, even if they hurt her and he doesn't understand that. But that for now it's okay if she feels differently. If you are Catholic, I can recommend a great book I just got my daughter that helps kids process divorce issues without condoning divorce in any way.
If you are a religious family, I can also recommend some prayers she can say for herself and for her family and yes, for her dad.
Here are some prompts I found that look good, for you to do together if she wants. You can add some that relate to your family situation once you get the hang of it. I couldn't do this with my son but we go on walks at midnight or 1 in the morning, whenever he asks me, and that's when he likes to go, and we talk about things like this. But with a girl I bet she would write about it with you -- in a journal or in letters.
I can send some for creative writing if she would write about her life in poems or stories/scripts. Once DnJ wrote a letter to my son, which I gave to my son, and it was really powerful. I can do that for her too. My parents split up when I was her age, and I learned rage then, and it haunted me until about five years ago. I understand her very well!
((((NYLA)))))) -- and even more, (((((Nyla's daughter)))))))
1) Both: What is your favorite season of the year? What is it that makes this stand out from the others? 2) Both: If you could be any animal for a day, what would you choose? Why does this animal appeal to you? Can you think of any down-sides to being this animal? 3) Parent: Describe your favorite memory from school (around age your child is now). Child: Describe the best day of school you have ever had and why. 4) Parent: Were you ever bullied as a child? If yes, share your experience and how it made you feel. If not, share about bullying you witnessed in school. Child: Have you ever been bullied at school? If yes, share about your experience and how you feel about it. If not, share about bullying you see happen at school. 5) Both: Describe your favorite memory from the last year. 6) Both: “The best thing about being ME is: ______.” 7) Both: “The hardest part about being ME is ______.” 8) Both: What would you do to help the poor if money was not an issue? 9) Parent: Describe the day you brought your child home from the hospital. How did you feel? Child: Describe your earliest memory. 10) Both: What is one belonging that you will NEVER throw away? 11) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you love the most. 12) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you dislike the most. 13) Both: Close your eyes and imagine the most relaxing place possible. Where is this place? Describe how it looks, feels and smells. Is this a real place? 14) Both: What is your favorite food? Can you explain why you like it so much? 15) Both: “If I received $1000 to spend on anything I wanted, I would buy ___. Here is why: ___.” 16) Both: What is the thing that scares you the most? Can you explain why? 17) Both: “My favorite memory with you is _____.” 18) Parent: “My biggest wish for you is _____.” Child: “My biggest hope for my future is _____.” 19) Both: “The number one thing I would like to change about myself is: ____. Here is why: ____.” 20) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 5 years? 21) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 10 years? 22) Parent: “For me, school was _____.” Child: “For me, school is _____.”And more! 23) Parent: “The hardest part of being an adult is _____.” Child: “The hardest part of being a teenager is ____.” 24) Both: The best advice you have ever received. 25) Both: The thing I think I am best at is ______. How do you know? 26) Both: Do you believe in ghosts? UFOs? Why or why not? 27) Both: The nicest thing anyone has ever said to you. How did you feel when you heard it? 28) Parent: Is there something you wish you had done or tried as a teen? What is it and why? Child: Is there something new you would like try, but haven’t? What is it and why? 29) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and tried to hide it. How did that work? 30) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and were honest about it. How did that work? 31) Both: What three items would you want with you if you were stranded on a deserted island? 32) Parent: What was dating like for you in middle school and high school? Child: What is your experience with dating? Are you happy with your experiences? 33) Both: What is your favorite song of all time? What do you think about when you hear it? 34) Both: If you were to get a tattoo today, what would you get? If you would not get one, explain why. 35) Both: My questions for you about sex and sexuality. 36) Both: My answers to your questions about sex and sexuality. (It is fair for both of you to include “I am not comfortable answering that question” in your responses.) 37) Both: Describe yourself in five sentences. Explain if desired. 38) Both: Describe the other person in five sentences. Explain if desired. 39) Both: What worries you most about getting older? 40) Parent: What do you most hope your child will learn to do before they are on their own? Child: What do you need help with learning before you move away from home? 41) Both: If we could go on a road-trip together, where would you want to go first? Second? Third? 42) Both: What would you like to be an expert on? Describe what and why. 43) Both: “Sometimes it is hard for me to tell you _______.” 44) Parent: “When I was your age, my hero was _______. This is why I admired this person: ____.” Child: “My hero is ________. This is why I admire this person: _____.” 45) Both: My very favorite meal is _____. Tell why you love this so much. 46) Both: What is the one thing you need to do or see every day? Why? 47) Both: “My favorite thing to day dream about is ______. Here is why: _____.” 48) Both: One activity you would like to do together in the next month and why. (Start making some plans!) 49) Both: The house hold chore you hate the most and why. 50) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel happy. 51) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel sad. 52) Both: Describe your favorite thing about the other person.
Last edited by Gerda; 06/15/1910:23 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Thank you so much (again) for your support. Now that I’m still visiting my hometown I’ve had such a hard time. This is where we spent most of our marriage, and the people here who are trying to be supportive, have no idea what mlc is. In addition to that, my kids know that the OW is now living with their dad, so they’re all a mess too. I find it easier to be at home in Spain rather than in here. Luckily, I have our summerhouse where I can go and be alone with the kids, but so far the weather hasn’t permitted it. (It is on an island and with the wind I haven’t been able to (or dared to) drive our little boat there.
DnJ, I talked with D14 about mlc, and she seemed relief to hear that there’s some explanation to her fathers craziness. She said he acts so weird all the time. Like when they had dinner the other night, he had shown her his mobile banking, because he has access to the companys that his managing accounts. (Which I think is quite bad given his mlc) She was confused because she knows it’s not his money. She felt like he was trying to brag with it.
I told her that it is good to let the anger out, but it won’t change anything. I also told her that the OW is also a broken person who has been fed lies by her father. She just doesn’t understand how someone can just walk away from a marriage like this without even trying to fix it. I again told her that these are his inner struggles and we don’t know if or when he will come out of this, but that I would stand for our marriage for as long as I can, because I do love him. I think that made her feel a bit better too, knowing that we (well one of us) haven’t completely given up on this.
Peacetoday, you are so right about being stronger than we are. My D14 had shown D12 the messages she had sent and D12 was at first angry at her dad and the OW but then changed into feeling bad for the OW. She said that “Think about it, mum, she was just there having a nice day and then all the sudden she gets these really mean messages from D14. Think how bad she must have felt” My poor girl, I tried to tell her that she shouldn’t worry about her fathers or the OW’s feelings, but to try to focus on her own and trying to work thru them. She said she doesn’t want to talk about her feelings to anyone anymore. I think she will need therapy, now that she know the OW is with her dad, she’s so angry at me all the time. I walk into a room and she looks at me and rudely asks what do I want? And then tells me to leave. If I don’t leave, she goes to another room. Same with S10. Sigh.
Gerda, thank you so much for your reply. I will watch the movies with my girls. And the journal idea I already introduced to my D12, she loves that kind of stuff. The letter you mentioned, that would be wonderful for both of my daughters. To have someone else explain this for them in a much better way than I think I can. If you ever have time for that, I would be so, so grateful. <3
I love the writing prompts you sent I’m going to try to do them with all of my kids. Might not work with S10, but I’ll give it a try.
Thank you all again, I don’t know where I would be without you all <3 <3 <3
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Good job talking with D14. That sounded like it went really well. D14’s path, and D12, S10, and your’s - are made up of many small steps. You will have further conversations, and her anger will abate. We cannot expect anyone to get this in one sitting, so I am sure as D14 processes what was discussed more questions will come.
A few things I would like to highlight.
It was really good to see how you didn’t demonize OW, that is rare, usually the LBS pours their anger and hatred into that person. However, she is not blameless in all this. Yes OW is a broken person being fed lies, she is also feeding H lies as well. She did get, and is, involved with a married man. D14 may need to see that OW and Dad is a two way street.
I am very happy to see you - all on your own I might add so great job - told D14 about you standing. Your part and views in all of this. That is the role model for them. Awesome Nyla. Really. You said is just right, standing and believing in your marriage for as long as you can, because you love him. Children really respond well to that. That is a beacon they need and will follow.
I fully get how it feels with D14 angry at you all the time. My S17 was so full of rage. He and I had to talk about that. I understood that he could not lash out towards Mom. He knew that, and his feelings were confused, all perfectly normal - something he (and D14) needed to hear. It is ok to go about your stuff and if D14 leaves the room that is fine. In time she will actual come back, and even not leave. This is a particularly difficult part of the path. Letting our children grow from this mess.
Continue with your gentle leading and be a great Mom and role model.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I need quick help!!! I'm fuming and so close to call my H.
I had previously told you guys that D12 found out about the OW by accidentally seeing their messages on his iPad. I just found out from my niece that there had been nude pictures of both of them there!!! I want to call that piece of poop and tell him exactly what I think of him and his morals and what he is doing to the kids with this behaviour. No wonder D12 is so angry and [censored] down. Who wants to see nude pictures of their dad?!?
What do I do? Do I confront him or not? At this point I feel like I really don't care if he comes back or not. I don't want a person like that in mine, nor the kids lives. Makes me sick!!! I am so full of anger right now that i can't even write what I wish for him.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Breathe! You want to be as calm as possible when dealing w/him on this issue. I would either call or text him and set up a meeting to speak to him privately about this issue and advise him of what your daughter saw on his iPad. I would ask him to please change the password and not give it to the kids again if he's going to be storing nude photos on it.
BTW, I would be furious too....but you will get your point across more effectively if you stay calm and speak in a level tone. Otherwise, he'll put the blame on your child for using his electronic equipment w/o his knowledge. They love to blame others for their stupidity.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Know your legal rights and see if there is anyway-you can legally protect the kids from too much or any contact with H right now until you can get things in agreement
I just don't feel the MLCer is truly capable of safely parenting teens or younger and your H is showing real signs of neglect for them
They are very self focused and I don't think very rational and whatever you say will go in one ear and out the other-
But any discussions with him need to be rational and calm on your end- he may deny it and or lie/so your words may not be even heard- or he may comply only to do something else that is careless You know him better than me
but I would consider legal advice to see if there is a way he can have supervised/or very limited visits like out to dinner for 2 hours then home or out to movie and ice cream for 4 hours and home
He is gone in his mind-and may never return but the kids deserve a safe/protected environment to grow up healthy
Remember one stable parent can make all the difference I would not be afraid to stand up to him and set limits/visits around the kids-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I believe you still have one more week in hometown. Do enjoy the time - all this stuff can wait - really.
I hope your anger has subsided and you and kids have talked a bit more. Nyla, you are an awesome role model for them. Consider this event, consider how ever you handle it, your kids will be learning some really valuable lessons.
My XW flaunted her affair and adultery. At one point early on she came to the house to discuss getting divorced and told us that 30 minutes ago she and OM just had sex. Really? So a quick shower, pull on some jeans, and come over here. I didn’t want to know that, and I’m sure my son really didn’t need that seared into his mind either.
MLCer do stupid immature rebellious stuff. And they will blame anyone and everyone for any consequences that arise from their stupidity. There really isn’t any reasoning with someone in that state. Just got to let them be, give them space, and protect you and yours.
Once your back, and calm (which I am pretty sure you will find quickly, you are a logical thoughtful gal), you can look into some further legal options. You can look into further discussions with H, and the setting of boundaries. You can decide what course of action you want to take. By the way, you can take more than one - don’t want to make it seem like it’s either or.
If may be a little bold. Before making a decision it is a good idea to get feedback from here. You have many people here who follow you, and care about you and your situation - I am one of them. If you want, you can see if someone else has experienced any pitfalls or problems when implementing their own similar decisions. They may even have a different solution you’ve never considered.
Nyla, I hope you realize you are doing alright. Please know you are not alone in all this. At times it does get rather overwhelming, remember to breathe, and keep putting one foot in front of the other while you walk this most difficult path.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Nyla, I will definitely do this. I am teaching a crazy crash course this week and have no free time but I will do it in a few days. Don't make any decisions about your future with H. Just let him go for now and put it all in that little box I mentioned, let the flowers grow over it. He is not in his right mind right now and won't be for a long long while. He will do many disgusting things. Just don't look. Look at something beautiful instead -- your daughters, the ocean, a flower in a vase, a beautiful book, the stars. If you are religious, look at God!
XOXOXO Nyla
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
My XW flaunted her affair and adultery. At one point early on she came to the house to discuss getting divorced and told us that 30 minutes ago she and OM just had sex. Really? So a quick shower, pull on some jeans, and come over here. I didn’t want to know that, and I’m sure my son really didn’t need that seared into his mind either.
Oh my gosh. DNJ, you often don't give details; this may be partly because you are a MAN and we ladies like to go over the details, but maybe it's also because you are so Good and true, you just focus on what is good and beautiful and true. But when I read the above, my heart broke for the DnJ that you were at that moment that she did that. Oh my gosh how horrible. My H has been doing God knows what since BD but he has so much shame about it that he would never let the kids know. Who would have thought I could see that as a positive! But what your XW did in front of your son, WOW.
((DnJ))
Last edited by Gerda; 06/24/1905:10 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Dnj ,I don’t know what to say to that I feel for you I really do that must of hurt beyond hurt ,why do they have to be so cruel . That must of cut to the quick .so so wrong
I’m still in my hometown for one more week. It has been therapeutic but at the same time very hard to be here. All the memories are popping up and when I’ve spent time at our summer cabin, I just don’t understand why he’s throwing all this away. I’m just so sad now…
I haven’t dealt with the pictures issue yet as H is not in the same country as I am. I have thought that I won’t allow him to have the kids at his place for a while now. Not that any of them would even go. They’re all protesting this new relationship and the OW moving in and saying they will not go and stay at his house while she lives there. Except my oldest (D14) did say she might go just to mess with the OW. I said to her that even if she would manage to smoke this woman out of her fathers life, it doesn’t mean he would come back home, he might just find someone else. That he will not come back until he wants to, and that might not even happen at all. I just don’t want her to have false hope.
I talked with a lawyer last week and the clock on our divorce has not started because I haven’t returned the signed papers to the court yet. This means that I don’t have to rush to move out of our house because while we are legally married, he is obligated to support me and the children and in the country where I live I can file a court order to make sure he does that. If not, the court will seize his salary. Which is good, I think, as I just saw his credit card statement and he has spent close to 1 000 € on hotels and what not with the OW just in the last month.
I have started to feel if there’s any point in standing for our marriage. I don’t know who this person is anymore, and I wouldn’t want him back the way he is. And knowing how proud he is, I doubt he could ever even come back if/when he comes out of the fog. I just feel that he has hurt me and the kids too much. Now that I have spent time at our summer cabin alone I have also realized that I really do not need him in my life, and then of course I have started to think if I want him in my life anymore. Our summer cabin is on an island and I’ve always been quite timid when it comes to driving the boat, and spending nights there alone without him. Now in the past week I’ve endured a crazy, blinding fog that surrounded me and the kids while we were driving the boat to the island, and storm that stranded us to the island for two days and having to drive the boat thru the same storm because we ran out of food on the island. All this I survived and feel so empowered by it!
So now I’m wondering has too much happened? I’m tired of trying to deal with this all and trying to be a good parent for the kids at the same time. I constantly question my actions, like what I talk to them about, do I tell them too much, am I talking to them as their age requires? This is all so unfair.
Oh DnJ, I can just feel the pain your wife caused by flaunting her adultery to you. Why do they have to be so cruel to us? We’re already having to deal with so much in all this.
Gerda, I have tried to focus on beautiful things, and most of the time I am actually quite happy, I look at my kids and I’m so thankful that I have them and even though I would have never wished this upon us, it has made me even closer with my kids. They can talk to me about anything now, and I really like that. I’m also so proud of them for standing up for the values and morals we have been raising them with, even when it means they’re standing up against their father.
I don’t know if I’m feeling like giving up now because I’m just tired or what it is. I just miss my old life.
Last edited by job; 06/25/1901:58 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
Im not sure I would want to deal with the fog/storm/no food on the island but it sounds like you made it through and grew front he experience
Im so glad you checked the credit card so you can see he probably will have spending issues as most MLCer do so you can protect yourself and all the money he has spent on hotels?
As for the kids, Its good they they can feel comfortable talking with you and I would keep any conversations about H and OW very neutral and use every stalling technique under the sun for allowing them to go to his apartment at all They don't want to and that should be enough for now- I would talk to D 14 only in neutral ways about his
Divorce sometimes happen.. people grow apart Its not his fault He still loves you He may just be going through a rough transition People sometimes have MLC and mental issues We can't help him We can lovingly let H go His relationships are not our business as this time we wish them the best we are a family and that is enough
My kids just accepted these statements maybe they formed their own conclusions but we never needed to discuss it My xh kept OW away from us and then after about 2 years they married and moved to another area We have no contact except an occasional message from OW to me or his sisters stating how miserable her life it with him I think they D and got back together but I lost touch or care about it I never respond
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I am glad your time at the summer cabin was beneficial - realizing you really don’t “need” H in your life. I know just how wonderful and sad that realization is; have faith the sad feeling is just that - a feeling - it will fade. Wonderful does take over and becomes more, stay the course.
Great job navigating the fog and storm. What an excellent adventure for you and your kids. Pretty sure you have gone up a few notches in role model status. Definitely being the best Mom you can be. (((Nyla)))
Nice to see you have some legal information and it is good. And I agree with peacetoday, it’s a good idea to have checked the credit card and see the spending. It sounds like you are watching and taking steps to protect yourself and the kids, well done.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
I haven’t dealt with the pictures issue yet as H is not in the same country as I am.
This is a good thing, as odd as that might sound. The picture issue wasn’t going to be dealt with well while it was boiling and bubbling over. After a week has passed I am sure those feelings of rage have subsided and you can look at it with a more intellectual approach.
I get what you are saying: You haven’t dealt with the picture issue yet - with H.
However, you have being dealing about the pictures with your kids and yourself. The very places you can exert control. Just want to reframe that a bit.
A suggestion for you (which you may have noticed in the previous two statements). Drop the word issue. It make it an issue. Yes, the picture are vulgar, insensitive, not appropriate, mindlessly unprotected from children’s view, and so on. However, an issue elevates this even more and puts H on the defensive, and if you want to remedy this, him being defensive is not going to be helpful.
Also issue implies it needs a solution. Of course you and kids need a solution, or more accurate a resolution since this really cannot be solved - by you. That is the problem by making this an issue (for you), the solution is beyond your control.
A solution is when all sides of the problem are, well for lack of a better word, solved. All parties agree to work towards the “fix”.
A resolution is more an accepting “solution”. A single party can find a “solution” that fixes things for themselves, while the problem, which is totally beyond their control, still remains unsolved. That, I think sums up our best interactions with our MLCer quite well.
So, deal with the pictures for what they are, and find a resolution that protects the kids. Something you have already being doing with the discussions with the kids. Do you need to fight an issue with H? With no issue, you can just place a boundary on his pictures / devices and find a resolution. Something to consider.
I share this because I have had to deal with many “issues” with XW. None were ever solved. I did, however, find resolution to the event, her behaviour, her actions. The flaunting adultery is such an example, what an unsolvable issue. However, it was completely within my realm to resolve, to find acceptance.
By the way Nyla, Gerda, and R678. Yes that was one of many crazy painful things that XW did. She behaved terribly. And I suffered terribly, something I learned was within my control to grow and move from. I existed for months in a dark abyss, surrounded by my demons and fears, and I could not see a way out. In time the light shined through and pushed back the darkness. Anyone reading along - no matter where you are in your journeys, no matter how dark things seem, have hope, and have faith - it will get better!
Finding acceptance and realizing the MLCer needs to be that cruel to try to justify their actions, provided my resolution of this. XW has to do what she has to do - it is well beyond my control. She expends great energies maintaining her fantasy, she has to. When / if it comes crashing down, what then? She cannot accept that, she must find a way to push back those thoughts.
However, I am a hopeful guy. I think the MLCer eventually might find their resolution / acceptance to their pain - just like I did for mine. Wouldn’t that be a nice thing? I live pretty much pain free and fear free. I would love XW to experience that as well.
Sorry about my meanderings there Nyla.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
I have started to feel if there’s any point in standing for our marriage.
You are doing some very good reflecting and digging within yourself. One does reach the point of questioning standing.
Try this - Stand for ouryour marriage.
I know what a weird ride this. Focus on you. Find your beliefs and values. Stand for you!
Originally Posted by Nyla79
I just don’t understand why he’s throwing all this away. I’m just so sad now…
Originally Posted by Nyla79
I don’t know if I’m feeling like giving up now because I’m just tired or what it is. I just miss my old life.
Letting go is hard.
There will be a time when you look at this less as what he has thrown away, what you have lost, and more of what you have been blessed with.
I miss my my old life too, and love my new one. It probably seems strange to think and feel that living like that is possible. It is possible and not even that strange - anymore.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
I’ve endured a crazy, blinding fog that surrounded me and the kids...
Originally Posted by Nyla79
All this I survived and feel so empowered by it!
Like the summer cabin. You will weather the fog and storm of this situation, of that I have no doubt. You are one tough and compassionate gal.
I totally understand all the uncertainty of your actions with the kids, the responsibilities, the lack of help from H, it can be a bit overwhelming - at first.
You will find a strength you never knew you had. Abilities you may have doubted, overlooked, and didn’t even recognize. You are surviving this storm and I see how empowered you are.
You’ve got this.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Peacetoday, I try to remain neutral, but I do think that I have failed at times. I do laugh if they say something bad about the OW if it is funny ( I know I shouldn’t)
I never let them talk badly about their father nor do I do it, but when it comes to her, sometimes I just can’t help myself. I did try to talk to the kids about her and her not necessary being a bad person but just a woman who has been fed lies to, but none of them wanted to hear that. They think she’s scum for being with a married person, which I kind of have to agree. But thank you for giving me the phrases, maybe I can try to use them when they have questions.
(((DnJ)))
I need you to sit on my shoulder and help me make sense of this all, every day. What a wonderful man you are. Your wife has to be in such a deep, deep fog if she can’t see you as the gem that you are <3
How do you read what I write and then make sense about it the way you do? I am much calmer now. I do realize the damage has been done and there’s no point getting into a fight or confrontation about it. I loved your idea of dropping the word issue and making a boundary out of this instead.
One thing about the MLC and cruelty again when it comes to my H, he still keeps on being “nice” to me. He still doesn’t slash out on me, never talks mean to me. He’s almost like a bunny in bushes, whenever something unpleasant comes along, he hides his head and pretends he’s not responsible or doesn't see it) So all the other signs of MLC are there except for the obvious cruelty. I don’t know why… it confuses me. It’s almost like it makes me angry with him when he’s being nice to me and then I have to (again) control myself. Maybe that is some sort of manipulation too… Now I have Phil Collins song "Separate lives" playing in my head
I really like this “Stand for you”.
And the part when you quoted my own words about the crazy, blinding fog and surviving it, oh DnJ, you always bring out the epiphanies like that! (What do you do for a living?!?)
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I work with, repair, and maintain high voltage electrical apparatus. The transmission and sub transmission equipment that supplies the distribution system which in turn supplies the customer. Basically I work on the equipment that supplies electricity to the cities, towns, and province.
I am in charge of 9 other Electrical Technicians. Me and my team look after 40 stations and cover an area of about 10,000 square miles.
I keep the lights on, and push back the darkness.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ, I would have thought you are working in some kind of social field, helping people. Maybe a therapist or something. You have such way with words and helping people see clearer. You definitely keep my lights on and push back my darkness. <3
My H came to my hometown for work so I asked if we could see each other, because we have to pay bills and such again. I just came back from meeting with him. It was a weird meeting. He seemed quite sad and tired, whereas I was being very upbeat and casual. I told him we need to talk about alimonies and assets and such, and he again said that we could just keep everything together. I said of course we could, but I don’t think we should.
I told him I want the summerhouse, the boat and the boat trailer, he can have the house we own (The summerhouse is so important to him, well to us, but more so to him). I also told him that now the clock is ticking on our divorce and on the 27th of December he can file for the final divorce. He commented “So you returned the papers” I said yes, even though I didn’t. They were handed to me by the court officer, so I couldn’t refuse them anymore. But now he thinks I’m ready for divorce. I don’ know if that’s good or bad.
As I was calmly talking about the assets and the divorce, he was visibly holding back tears. I pretended not to notice. When I told him I was going to ask for full custody because of his travelling and such, just on paper, he asked if I was going to stay in Spain. I told him it was my intention. He was having hard time talking because he was so emotional. (He is not an emotional man usually)
He then told me that he has been offered a job that would make him travel a lot more. He told me that I’m the only person he’s told this, even the OW does not know. (I think he was trying to get a reaction from me) I asked if it was what he wanted? And he said that he doesn’t know what he wants anymore. That it is hard to figure it out. What you want, I asked and he said yes. I said you should try to figure it out, it’s so important. Then I encouraged him to take the job, as it is the kind of job he’s been wanting to have for a long time. I think he was surprised by my reply. Earlier I have always said to him that I wouldn’t want him to take that kind of a job while the kids are still at home. Now it really doesn’t matter.
I feel the meeting went well, I think he really feels that I have detached, which I hope gives him the freedom he’s been wanting to have. I also think that living with this OW and the kids rejecting him for it, is bringing him down.
I told him that the kids do not want to meet her, and that he needs to respect that. He said he knows, and he will not try force it upon them. I said they need time. So hopefully this will not be a problem. I was wearing a dress and I could see him looking at my legs and at me when he thought I wasn’t watching. I’m not reading anything into this, as I know better. But he was different than what he has been the last times I’ve seen him.
Being at home has been so hard, but it has given me so much strength. I can face anything and I know I will weather this storm too, not matter how it ends. (This is how I feel tonight)
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
You sound great. Detached and clearheaded. Well done!
I think you did really well with his revealing of his job offer. And him not even telling OW, yeah that’s just not going to end well at all. Good thing you are out of that mess.
I like the fact you encouraged him with taking the job. It takes any concern or worry he might try to conjure right out of the picture - keeps this firmly upon him. You demonstrated you can look after yourself, showed a fearless side of you, and some really inner strength. I am proud of you.
As you continue, remember - you found this moment, this strength - it might slip and be regained a few times - it will become permanent.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I’m back home now have been here for three days. It has felt both good and bad. Now that I’m back in our home, my husband is taking up all the space in my brain. I think about him and the OW constantly. I don’t know why, I almost feel like I’ve gone back a few steps again.
I think it might be the meeting on Sunday when he told me (when we talked about work) that he doesn’t know what he wants anymore, that maybe I should have tried to get him to talk more, maybe he meant that he’s unhappy about this situation, maybe he regrets leaving, maybe this, maybe that. It’s driving me crazy.
And at the same time, I’m so angry with him. I’m angry that he just packed up and left and angry that he’s hurting the kids and angry that he broke his vows and all his promises. How do I get past this again, and why does this feeling come back?
And when I came here to post it and read your reply again, it did give me strength. I hope to get to the point where that feeling will become permanent, this is getting too tiresome.
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
You are doing wonderfully. We have to backslide to move forward. One needs to process the new info and keep sorting out and all the rest. It is the path to acceptance.
Your H and OW on your mind: He blamed you with his “you should have tried more”, blah blah. Do not take on his blaming. All those maybes - maybe he should have tried more. No maybe about it.
I’ve got more to say (imagine that) and miles to drive. Take care of you and kids. You are on a good path. Will talk again soon.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
It makes sense that you might feel more unsure after the conversation with H What idid this or that mean? many of them will give crossed messages
I believe they are unsure and will go back and forth in their minds with Are they doing the right thing-
They also may want to keep us as a back up plan-
But I also believe if it is MLC they get pulled in that direction of destructive behavior, addictions chaos, OW because to come back to the R would mean self reflection, inner child work,pain, work therapy ect... and many a MLCer will never go in that direction-
So My thinking here is until he comes to you with a solid agreement that he wants to get help and make the M work- I would continue as you are..letting go- being there for the kids- let him sit with his not knowing-
You pain and anger is valid and it is needed and part of the healing process-for you talk to a therapist so you can get the support needed here for you to grieve
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I agree with peacetoday. Until H comes to you with a solid plan and resolve to make M work, drop the rope and work on letting go. I wouldn’t worry too much about the statistics of reconciliation - healing yourself is needed no matter which way this situation goes. And his path is out of your hands.
That is the real point isn’t it. His choices. You cannot reach, influence, or talk any sense into him. He will question, justify, go back to being sure, and cycle back to unsure, and so on... Leave him to it.
Focus on you, your path, and your choices.
The backslides are painful and needed. No worries. You are doing fine.
Originally Posted by Nyla79
Now that I’m back in our home, my husband is taking up all the space in my brain.
Homes do have a lot of memories contained within. Of course it does stir things up a bit.
How about: Our house. My home.
There is a distinction in that. It’s accurate. It helps.
Your home, your good memories - embrace them. And make more. (((Nyla)))
Keep working through the anger. Acknowledge it, accept it, don’t feed it. It comes and goes.
How to get through the anger, how to get to those more permanent feelings?
What are you headings? Your goals? We’ve talked about them before, just reminding. You can state again if you wish; I liked to read them.
All these small steps are leading to those goals, to that destination. Have faith, all you are going through has a purpose. Keep that in your mind and heart, this does get better.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Nyla my darling girl, you started posting here in May. That was a few months ago. Do you think you are Superwoman?
I am in year seven. I think about H less now. Year seven, my dear.
You have a heart made to love. You can't turn it off like a hose at your summer house.
Go read my previous post about the box. Keep putting your feelings in their and water it with tears and watch flowers grow.
Grieve, my friend. Daily. That's real.
H's feelings for OW are not real. It's addiction, lust, confusion. Of course he is confused.
But don't say a word. Hold it in and get that breezy feeling on your face until he leaves. Then scream into a pillow. Not to repress but to let him get to the rock bottom on his own.
It might take a while.
And by a while I mean a couple of years.
Just be your beautiful self and try not to let him see your pain.
But let yourself see your pain. It's a burden to carry, don't pretend it's not there or think you are on some kind of superhuman timetable of detachment. You know who is on a superhuman timetable of detachment? THE MLCer!!!! They do it all fast and furious and marvel at how happy they are in their new lives. And then they spiral. It's going to happen at some point, the only question is when. I assure you that the new girl does not make a home like yours or provide any of what H really needs. Just let that happen and the break-up will never appear as your idea, but only as his, when it gets to that point. I am not saying it will happen this year or next. And maybe it will take years. I am just saying it will happen. Even if it weren't MLC but just statistically.
I don't agree with those here who say he has to be perfectly ready to work on the marriage to return. But I am not sure we can put that kind of condition on a return of a broken spouse. I think of Gordie on this one.
I don't know how you can carry your burden without God but maybe through the love of your friends here, you can unload some of that burden on our shoulders, which is really the same thing.
I still owe your D a letter and hopefully will do that in the next few days.
Last edited by Gerda; 07/07/1906:58 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
DnJ, I love that you have so many things to say. And what you said about our house, my home. This is exactly what I have tried to start thinking. Instead of talking about our bedroom, it is now my bedroom etc. Not feeding the anger at times is hard, I catch myself doing it. Now I practice thinking about a big red STOP sign when my I realize I’m thinking about unnecessary things.
I will work on my headings this week and share them with you guys. I also need to read DR again, last time I read it so fast, I feel like nothing really stuck.
Peacetoday, I’m afraid you’re right about MLC’ers not wanting to look inside, I definitely worry that my husbands ego will not allow it. He has never been good in admitting fault in his actions.
Gerda <3 I guess I’m a bit impatient when it comes to all this. I would want to be healed and whole now, not one day in the future. I have never dealt with a trauma before. I was 16 when my parents got divorced and I don’t feel that was so traumatic, their marriage was horrible years before that. So other than that, my life has been very easy. Which I’m so grateful for. All my grandparents are still with us.
I sometimes think if my life has been too happy, and that’s why I was dealt with such horrible cards now, to balance it out. I think I have suppressed my grieving a bit. Now I try to let it through a little bit at a time, I let it out, and then put it away so I can function.
I have thought about going back to church. We did go to church before, but had bad experiences from it and I know it shouldn’t but it kind of caused me to turn away from God. And now I feel that it would be hypocritical to try to find Him again, just because I need Him. I don’t even know if that makes sense.
Past few days it’s been ok, a content period I would say. I take care of the kids and the house and myself. And there’s plenty of work in that. I do sometimes get annoyed at my husband for leaving. Thinking what an easy life he must have with the OW. They just work and then shop groceries for two, clean for themselves and do laundry for themselves, all in a small apartment, whereas I’m here taking care of this big house, and a pool that got algae in it now after my trip, not to even mention the amount of laundry and cleaning I do after the kids… Oh well, this is my life now, and if I had to choose, I would choose life with these little rascals anytime, over anything else.
My husband has been in touch with me everyday since I came back from my hometown. Most of it just unnecessary, it’s been very weird. On Sunday we had an exchange when he asked if he could spend the day with the kids. At that point we already had plans in action, so I told him not today. He was fine about it. Then he asked me if I wanted him to bring me an AC unit? (It’s so hot and our house doesn’t have AC) I thanked him and he promised to bring it later.
D12 was with her friends so I thought to ask H if he could pick her up on his way to my house, she needed to be picked up at 6.30 pm.
Our texts:
Me: We’re home now, I called to see if you could please pick D12 up from the beach at 18.30 and bring her home?
H: I don’t think I can make that
H: Is that ok
H: Or do you need me to get her?
Me: No it’s ok
H: Do you need me to get her
Me. No it’s ok, I’ll go 😊
H: I would have to run as I’m about 20 minutes from home.
H: So you get her then?
Me: Yes I will, please send me a message before you bring S10s stuff
H: Yes of course I will, say in one hour
H: I’ll bring the AC too?
Me: Yes please
Why did he keep on asking if I needed him to get her when I already said I could do it. I felt he was worried i was going to be upset if he didn't get her. I don't know.
Then when he came, he lingered a bit, tried to make eye contact the whole time, and was very much like his old self. He gave me cash that we had agreed that he still needed to give for this month. After he left he continued texting.
H: Sorry about the cash, but I couldn’t transfer from my account as it was too close to zero
Me. Don’t worry about it. Are you going to be ok?
H: I’ll sort myself out, don’t worry.
H: Did you get the AC going?
Me: Yes! We all stood in front of it for the longest time
H: Don’t worry about the water that comes out just put a towel down.
Then I stopped replying.
So this was one of the longest text conversations we’ve had since the BD and all this he already told me when he was here, so it felt like he was just trying to force conversation. I know better than try to make anything out of this, but it is soooooo hard not to get my hopes up.
I mean what is wrong with me, on one hand I feel detached and at times even happy in my own life and then all the sudden I’m in the whirlwind again, I see his eyes looking at me and I’m done... I still love him so much. Sighs…
Please someone talk some sense into me, like you guys always do <3 <3 <3
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
I would notice his behavior but try not to get it too much in your head-
A DB coach once said to me if something you are doing is bringing him closer(detaching) then continue if it pushes him away then try something else
Whatever you are doing( letting go) may seem attractive to him
Your showing yourself and he sees it --that you are a strong confident woman who will move on so as you continue on your healing journey..be polite with your limits and continue
Nothing you say or do can really snap him awake if he is in MLC BUt a confident person is very attractive
He can also see that he is probably still not happy but he cant figure it all out in the beginning many MLCer will linger a while before they get pulled out to sea-
all you can do is watch and wait and heal yourself and your children as you let him g0
I know it is hard-you are doing great
((((Hugs))))
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
The first few months when my H first left I would read over his emails a hundred times, picking them apart thinking does this mean that and that mean this?
I was reading far too much into his messages and to be honest, wasted too much of my time doing so.
It’s exhausting. I agree with Peace, continue as you are. It’s so much more attractive than pursuing.
Allow him to carry on with his journey while you get on with your life. His relationship with OW has to run its course and I personally believe will run it’s course quicker now they are living together, rather than the excitement of ‘courting’.
No one knows what’s going on in his head, even he doesn’t.
I don’t remember if I had told you earlier that I had suggested to my husband that we come up with a schedule when he would spend the days with the kids. Because they all refuse to go to his house now that he lives with the OW. I’ve been a bit annoyed about his going about this, only calling at the last minute and only when it suits him.
This was my email to him:
"One more question, would you like to talk about making some sort of schedule for when you spend time with the kids? I think even though they're not coming to your house or spending the nights, you could, if you wanted to, pick them up on weekends in the morning and bring them back in the evening. They would benefit from it so much and if they knew in advance that this day is a day with daddy, then the girls wouldn't make plans for it either. Just an idea. Let me know what you think."
Now my husband had replied to my email:
“Sorry I never answered you on this. Yes I would like this very much and I will soon have a empty house for a few weeks so maybe they could try to spend the night with me also? Im very busy still tomorrow but then after that would like to look at a schedule for when i can come spend time with them.”
ARGH!!! So now that the OW is going to be gone for a few weeks, he has time for his kids and then he needs them to come and fill up his void. (This is my initial reaction)
So please, please help me with this. I don’t want to let them go there, because even if she’s not physically there, it is her home and her stuff will be there and nothing has changed.
The point is that the kids don’t approve of this relationship and that’s why they don’t want to go there. And of course, if I’m being honest, I am a bit selfish about this too. I don’t want them to be his entertainment while she’s gone. Again, I feel like he is cake eating, even though these are his kids. I don’t even want to ask the kids about this. (Should I and also, should I let them go when I know they’re not ready?)
So my proposed reply is, please give me feedback:
Hi H,
I’m glad we can try to come up with a schedule, I think it helps all parties.
At the same time, I’m sorry H, the kids don’t want to spend the night at your house because you are living together with your girlfriend, it doesn’t matter if she’s there physically or not. They feel uncomfortable when you try to bring her, or this matter up with them. Please give them time. In every other way and dates I can be flexible, but in this matter, I have to think what is best for the kids.
My schedule is quite flexible except on Friday afternoons, so just let me know when you have time and we can sit down and look at this.
Nyla
On BD Me 39 H44 D14 D12 S10 M19 T19 BD 3/19 Separation 3/19 H filed for D 4/19
For creating a non-court-ordered voluntary schedule I would ensure you speak with the kids. They need a say in their new lives, even if things cannot work out how they want, they need to feel heard.
I know you don’t want any of this. And yes, H will have time for kids while OW is away. OW is a person of significance in his life right now; all parties need to find a resolution that works (courts would impose who knows what).
I have alter your well worded email a little, H doesn’t need reasons just facts. Reason and justifications are just something he can, and will, twist around, stick to the facts and boundaries.
Also be careful of what you put in writing, negotiate face to face, never know what will be pulled up later, best to limit any future ammo. That part about protect you and the kids - remember who you are dealing with and what he has done. Do not agree to anything without considering it for a good while, maybe even get legal counsel.
- - - - Hi H,
I’m glad we can try to come up with a visitation schedule.
My personal schedule is quite flexible except on Friday afternoons, so just let me know when you have time and we can sit down and look at this.
Nyla - - - -
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I like the idea of not allowing the kids to his house even when she is not there t just creates boundries
In the conversation- I would not bring up OW but it is best to take the children and it is for their best interest and their request to see H outside of his apt. He can take them out to a park, a movie, an event, lunch ect or whatever activity seems age appropriate keeo in mind..If he takes them out for an activity it will probably be less time maybe he can spend time with them at your home and you can make a mysterious plan and night out
My XH had an apt on the beach with OW..He lived 45 minutes from us- He would travel to our home without her to see our kids- They never met her-They never went to his home
Good luck I know it is difficult-
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Last edited by job; 07/11/1906:00 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
