I am new to this forum so I thought I would introduce myself.
I am 39, was together for 15 years with my 39 yo MLC fiancé. We were not married yet but committed and wanted to start a family, even actively working on that ...
Some years ago we moved to another region for my job and it is not that easy to make friends here. Moreover there was a serious business conflict for Papageno. He started to feel bad, withdraw, he was not himself until 2 years ago he confessed he met the OW ... he moved in with her in May 2018 but already the day after he came back, said it hurt so much, he needed time but the OW would keep pressuring him and certainly leave if he moved back here ... the first couple of weeks he kept in touch until I said I will not be second best and I was not ok with meeting behind her back.
He then became more of the touch and go type but he did keep trying with the most bizarre excuses ... until we met again in September. He then said he thought I wanted to move on but that’s not what I said ... the door is still open even though people think I should let go but that’s just not how I feel. Somehow I feel like we are meant to be together.
I’m not saying I just sit home and wait but I am saying I am open to him coming home.
Before he mostly talked about how he was unhappy about this and that and was I prepared to change whereas last week it was the first time he said he was responsible for this mess, he doesn’t know how to get out of it ... he still lives with the OW but he says he does miss things with her and he still loves me. And that maybe he does not realise half of the misery he is putting me through.
I said to him, you are still afraid to lose her, to which he replied that maybe not so much, but her social situation is tricky and what will her parents say and her children (she is divorced) are in this too and if I leave then her x husband would be right (he has been saying this would not work out all along). So ... the fact that he leaves me when we were starting a family does not matter?! Or what my parents would say??
I have been doing my best to live my life, there are good days and bad ones, like you all know probably. I have been gaining some psychological strength, together with a therapist (one who has experience with midlife crisis) and I actually was on the verge of asking mr MLC to move the company address (that was still at our place) when I got an e-mail from him saying something like he wants to regain mutual understanding, communication was our strength (true), and if I would be prepared to do an exercise. I thought, what to do with this. I can say no, but then I close the door. I can say yes and see where it leads us, but I don't want any cake eating happening. Just because the OW is not intelligent enough to provide conversation (sorry, but it is true!). So I discussed it with my therapist and he advised me to put the address change on hold for the time being and go forth with this to see where it leads. So we did this exercise which actually sounded as though it came straight out of a psychology book and it was thought through, not something you just do in 5 minutes. He tried to put himself in my shoes and told me how he thought all this had affected me (which was actually pretty accurate). I thought well this is new, it is (I think) not "normal" for MLC sufferers to put themselves in someone else's shoes (ha! As if anything is normal in MLC ...). Furthermore he opened up about how he feels (because I also had to do this exercise the other way around and put myself in his shoes), says he feels depressed, anxious, alone, etc. I thought well OK this is more than what happened before ... We met over dinner and had a conversation about this. I was really careful not to allow any cake eating happening. It felt like walking a mine field, on the one hand I did not want cake eating but on the other hand I did not want to shut him out either. I made it clear as long as he lives with the OW it is very difficult for me to help/support him. He said a lot of other things are going through his mind but he needed more time to process those. Fair enough, I thought, we'll see.
That was About a month ago and since then I did not hear anything anymore. My guess is he's back in the tunnel again. It can be so frustrating. But what's more, when asked what bothers me I actually said well one thing is you say A and you do B. And guess what. He said A (wants to restore things) and does B (not a word since then ...). Moreover I know he took a trip with the OW and her kids (did not want to find out. Was told by ... alas). Then I really have to restrain myself not to ask him who is he lying to. Me, the OW, or himself? Since then I did hear something but not too much. I got a message on our anniversary. He also asked if he could pick up his racing bike. So he wants to pick up an old hobby he left behind ... perhaps it is not bad.
Sorry for the long post. My story in a rather large nutshell .
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Don't WAIT for him!!!!! Get on with your life, including dating if you feel so inclined, or at least socializing with mixed groups that include available men if you don't feel like dating.
He KNOWS that you are there waiting and available to him as a backup plan if things don't work out with OW. Don't let him think that. (He's actually more likely to make a decision in your favor if he thinks he's in danger of losing you anyway.)
If he is TRULY interested in getting back together with you, you need to make him do these things: He needs to live alone (no OW and NOT with you initially) He needs to get therapy about why he did this. He needs to give you complete transparency (like access to his phone records etc.) He needs to WORK at winning you back.
These may have been signs that he is turning around, or may just have been more indecisive dithering and an attempt to make sure you're there just in case he needs you.
Honestly - I would really advise, if you want to have children, that you move on. Not because I'm saying he won't come back - he might - but because he has already shown the character flaw that he can lie and do this. I took my exH back early in our marriage after he had cheated on me; I thought we were good and went on to have 3 children with him and a mostly happy life - until he had another affair at 42 and left me when he was 50 and having a midlife crisis. My three adult children still have pain from that and I feel like it is MY fault. I TOOK that risk with my ex, it's fine for ME to risk it, but I subjected my kids to that risk and it didn't turn out well.
If your ex-fiance cannot do the VERY hard work of figuring this out and changing for the better, he'll never be the person you want by your side when hard challenges hit, like a seriously ill child or a teenager with a drug addiction.
Thank you for the advice and the links, I will look into it!
Maybe I have to clarify something. We had an open relationship, that was a mutual agreement. To each their own, I guess most people would not agree to this but we did. The OW did not, obviously, in the end. Anyway, as opposed to most MLCers I guess, there were no lies here.
That said, I do agree with you kml about the things he needs to do.
I do try to live my life, even though dating is not for me right now. I tried, but I was not really into it and did not think it fair to these men.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
We had an open relationship, that was a mutual agreement.
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I do try to live my life, even though dating is not for me right now.
Ummm....ok, so you had an open relationship but that meant he dated others but you didn't? or you dated others but as soon as he left you stopped dating? It makes a big difference.
If the "open relationship" was just that he could sleep with other women but you were monogamous - nope, nope, nope that's so ridiculously unfair. That's just a guy who wants to cheat or indulge his sex addiction without losing you.
If the "open relationship" was more the traditional type where both parties are free to have sex outside the relationship - why did you stop? Why wouldn't you still be seeing other men? Why would you choose monogamy (currently celibacy) now that he's gone?
I can see why you have some questions . Let's just say it is something we shared - quite literally. So, on my own it's just not that appealing. Much like other things we liked to do together ... at the moment I am not doing them because it is too painful at this time. Regardless of the type of relationship, the grieving is quite similar for all of us I guess. I lost the one who was most important to me - at least for now, and I think people change due to this kind of crisis - perhaps for the better if they come out of it, that remains to be seen.
I did take up a lot of things that were more my own and I neglected for some time. I also realise I have tolerated way too much (and I am not talking about the open relationship thing here). Unlike what I heard a lot of times from LBS of MLCers, Papageno never got mad at me or blamed me for everything, he never lied to me either (that I know of). I only saw depression. I think, looking back, that is part of why I tolerated too much - I thought it would help him battle depression. Of course, now I know better and putting boundaries is something I continually work on.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
In general, though ... I think I was lucky (or wise enough ) to get a coach for myself a few weeks after BD.
I can tell you I really had to leave my comfort zone because I was always there for him before (and vice versa, before the MLC) and letting him sort out his own mess has been one of the hardest things I ever had to do. Not replying directly to his mails/texts/calls, not being available all the time (that was a case of fake it till you make it ... I might have faked that a bit in the beginning, but honestly right now there are times when he wants to meet for whatever reason and I really don't have time to spare!).
I changed therapists because my first one did not really believe in MLC as such (she says it's just an excuse for cheaters and it is astonishing how many of them "wake up" when they see the spouse moving on (well she might be on to something there, but for different reasons)), but still I was lucky to have found her because she really worked on my self confidence. My current coach has more experience with MLC.
We were not married, so that does make things easier with regard to finances etc. Some things are still joined since we own a house together, but most of it is separate and I can't be held responsible for anything he might get into.
Right now I do not contact him myself unless it is something urgent, but if he wants to talk and initiates contact himself I am open to it. I try to keep my expectations low. Last month I really thought something might have changed since he wanted to do this exercise to regain mutual understanding, but since then nothing really happened. At least not on the outside - he might be digesting things internally who knows.
I try to detach, but I find it hard to do and by that I mean for now I am still standing (I do sound like Elton John, don't I ), there might come a day when I am done with this but not right now. However, I find it difficult to detach without giving up permanently. I am not sure if I explain it properly. He is in a boat heading for a waterfall, and I do not want to go down that road so I try to get out of the boat and stand on the side, but I have not walked away from the shore yet.
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
The hardest part for me is dealing with other people. People on my side who don’t understand why I remain standing (for now) and keep saying I can’t wait around forever (true, but I take one day at a time) and people on his side who apparently seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to drop your fiancée you knew for 15 years to move in directly with another woman who apparently has no problem at all breaking up families since 1/ she goes after an engaged man and 2/ she was married twice before and both marriages ended with (you guessed) her running off with another guy. Not sure they know the second part but still. IF we should try again some day I really don’t know how to fix the relationships with his family. (Or perhaps they did tell him off. I guess he would never admit that to me.)
Anyway. Sometimes I wonder am I doing this right. Since apparently he does not follow up on his wish to fix things we talked about a month ago. I guess it’s possible he will blame me again and say something like “see, you did not contact me anymore so you don’t care”. (Yes, I do. Which is exactly why I back off ...)
Fiance in MLC. Both end 30s.
T15y Engaged, no children, were trying. BD1 Dec 2017 BD2 May 2018 Lives with OW
If he is in crisis, he will not follow up on anything that he says that he wants to do. Why? Because the main ingredient of a MLC is depression. Sure, they say that they are going to do something at such and such time and guess what?? It's not done. Time is very, very slow for the person in crisis. They tend to be confused a lot of the time and don't realize just how much time has gone by. We, on the other hand, see how time flies and we tend to get frustrated when they don't follow through on things that they have promised to do. The only thing you can do is be patient and keep your expectations at zero at all times.
They will blame everyone for their problems. They are wearing blinders at the moment and can't see that they have issues and that there are things that they need to do for themselves. Keep in mind, you were fired from being his fiancé at the moment. You aren't his mother and it's not your responsibility tor remind him of what he needs to do.
Take some time and read up on MLC and more importantly depression. I think it will shed more light on why he's pushing along at the slower pace.
Keep the focus on you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
The MLCer will generally pick an affair partner with little morals or concern for the LBS
They also pick someone, they may be able to rescue, another person in MLC, or with serious issues
I believe the MLCer will also lie to the OW and paint whatever story is needed to get closer to them
They think that by pursuing this new life, they may find utopia and the happiness they deserve unfortunately, that is not how the story plays out
If he is in True MLC, You may see him get worse over time.. more depression-maybe drugs, alcohol, spending, gambling, tattoos, new clothes, new hair color, cars ect..
You sound well grounded and have support It takes us 1-2 years to grieve the loss- and its best to do just that while you watch to see what direction he takes
If he is in MLC, you will see many signs of this in his dress and character- and there is NO way to reach him He has to figure it out
Only few will recover fully
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
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), there might come a day when I am done with this but not right now. However, I find it difficult to detach without giving up permanently. I am not sure if I explain it properly. He is in a boat heading for a waterfall, and I do not want to go down that road so I try to get out of the boat and stand on the side, but I have not walked away from the shore yet.