I´ve read so many books, so many forums, so many online pages.
Just like many here, this came suddenly for me. I was traveling for business purposes early February. Since we got married recently we had planned for her to get pregnant in February, or at least start trying then. When I came home, things felt off. She was distant, did not want affection etc etc. At the time I didn´t know anything about MLC, like nothing other than people being depressed about getting old. I had no idea it affected those close by and certainly not what a nightmare it could be.
When I first talked to her about it, it came out terribly wrong. I almost had a panic attack when I realized things were different. See, we have always been affectionate with each other. We loved being with each other at all times and we rarely argue(even now we don´t argue). The first thing she did during that talk was to list things that had annoyed her about me, how I was negative towards others and their ideas. I didn´t disagree, I thanked her for being honest and said I need to work on that. Later that evening I realize that doesn´t explain her lack of affection of course.
So I start searching for information online but I don´t even know where to start. On Feb 23 I decided I need to ask what is going on. She said she doesn´t know why she is feeling this way but she thinks it will go over on its own. She just needs time and space. So that´s what I gave her. I decided to just be a fun guy to be around although I slipped a few times when my emotions got the best of me
It took me a good month and a half before I stumbled upong pages on MLC. During this time I did everything you´re not supposed to do. I tried to have several relationship talks, she listened but still didn´t change her behaviour(of course).
From late February to early April was the worst period for me(so far). I didn´t have the tools yet to control my emotions but I still kept it cool around her(mostly). She started hanging out with younger friends, going out to nightclubs, bars and restaurants, coming home at 3-4 am several weekends in a row. I did my best to keep it cool until I read for the first time that infidelity is very common during MLC. That crushed me even though I had yet to see any signs of that. Then I started noticing things. She started following her ex on Instagram. Normally I wouldn´t care about that but the timing of it all worried me. Then I noticed on a few occasions that she archived all the photos of me and her on her instagram page. I didn´t understand it at first since I didn´t know you could do that. I noticed the pictures were gone but the next day they were back again. Next weekend, the same thing happened so on the Sunday while I was traveling, I messaged her about it and asked why she had deleted our wedding photos. Her response was that she hadn´t removed them. Then she said she was trying an app that rearranges photos but it didn´t work and that I should update the page again. I did and sure enough they were back. Now the thing is, there is no such app. And if there was, why would it only affect the photos of me and her...
Anyway, since then so much has happened. She agreed to go to couples therapy and she seems happy about going there, almost looking forward to it, as do I. We are seeing a Imago therapy counselor who is very good at understanding her it seems. So really, while we are at home together - everything is fine between us and has been for weeks now. I´m not sure it will last of course but there´s been no hate between us at all since this started.
A few things worth knowing -
- I have been working out twice a day since the moment I felt something was off in February. I can see my abs now for the first time in my life. She doesn´t know that of course since she hasn´t seen me naked since this started.
- I was doing well for myself financially before all this started but coincidentally, my business took off around the same time this started so I can now consider myself a wealthy person. I´ve upgraded everything in our house, all furniture etc. Yes, in the back of my mind, I am doing this to make her feel what she would be losing if she left. Is that a bad idea?
- I made sure to sign a prenup before we got married. If she leaves, she leaves with absolutely nothing and could not afford anywhere near the lifestyle she has today. I´m worried about this since I certainly don´t want her to stay in this relationship because she has no other choice.
- She tells the counselor that she wants to make this work and she has been adamant about that from the start, that we shouldn´t jump to conclusions and that we have been together for 9 years - we can´t just let go like that. She also told him that she doesn´t trust that her feelings about having second thoughts about the marriage are real. She is afraid that if she ends the relationship she´ll realize that that´s not at all what she wanted. But besides that so much fits in with the MLC description. She said it all started with thoughts of having a baby, "is this it, the end??" and she often felt the desire to be "let loose".
But despite all this, we still aren´t intimate with each other. We haven´t had sex since January. Is it normal that couples have sex at when one spouse is having a MLC? I haven´t read anything on that anywhere?
What do you make of all this? I am prepared for the worst, that this could take years from now. At times, I feel like giving up. And what about sex? She is worth waiting for but am I as LBS supposed to accept the fact that I can´t have sex for years to come?
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S3
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm curious - you're young enough to be considering having kids, you were together 9 years before marriage, yet you have a prenup that gives her nothing?
Mind you, I'm not knocking prenups in general - I'm in my early 60's and would never marry again without a prenup.
But that's different usually for young people just starting out, so I'm curious about the circumstances that led to a prenup so strict that she would get nothing for her contributions to the relationship for the past nine years. Did you have an inkling that she wasn't trustworthy before you married her? Did you come into the relationship with a lot of money to begin with and have you been financially "rescuing" her all this time?
Also what was her family of origin like? How old was she when you got together? Does she have a history of depression?
I'm curious - you're young enough to be considering having kids, you were together 9 years before marriage, yet you have a prenup that gives her nothing?
Mind you, I'm not knocking prenups in general - I'm in my early 60's and would never marry again without a prenup.
But that's different usually for young people just starting out, so I'm curious about the circumstances that led to a prenup so strict that she would get nothing for her contributions to the relationship for the past nine years. Did you have an inkling that she wasn't trustworthy before you married her? Did you come into the relationship with a lot of money to begin with and have you been financially "rescuing" her all this time?
Also what was her family of origin like? How old was she when you got together? Does she have a history of depression?
I have always made it very clear that if we get married we need to sign a prenup. I just don´t think anyone else deserves half of my businesses(for example) should we divorce. I do trust her, but I am not naive to think that people can´t change. But she has never had a problem with that and signed the prenup without any discussion before we got married.
I did have a lot of money to begin with but for a few years, I lost everything and had to start from scratch. During our entire relationship, I have paid for almost everything. All our vacations, dinners etc etc. When she lost her job a few years ago, I supported her financially as well. As long as we are together, I am very generous. I´ve just never felt I owe her money because we split up. If we had children, I would support her and them of course should we divorce.
Her parents got divorced when she was 6 years old. They never argued in front of her so she never saw a divorce coming. Her parents are still friendly towards each other now after all these years and always have been.
She was 25 when we got together. In 2016 she was on sick leave for burnout and took anti depressants for that for about a year. I´ve also wondered if that has anything to do with it but she stopped taking them more than a year before our crisis began.
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Ok so no replies yet but I think I´ve come to a conclusion anyway.
After reading what some poor souls have been through here and many other forums, I don´t think I can go through that. I love her so much but this has been over 3 months of agony. I can detach but right now I´m more pretending to in front of her. I still miss her and hate every moment of being in this situation.
We have couples therapy scheduled for next Wednesday so I don´t want to make any drastic decisions right away, but most likely I will end our relationship next week. I have a strong urge to do it today but I don´t trust my own feelings so I´ll give it a week before I decide. Once I´ve ended it, that´s it for me. I´ll have to deactivate all my social medias, make sure she moves out of our apartment asap and then and only then can I truly detach from this and start a new life.
I already have but I can sense it´s not real, I don´t want to go out and do things, I want to be with her. So I think for me to actually want to GAL I have to end this and move on.
I envy you brave people who can go through this for many months and even years. I hope one day I will be as strong as you
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Ok so no replies yet but I think I´ve come to a conclusion anyway.
After reading what some poor souls have been through here and many other forums, I don´t think I can go through that. I love her so much but this has been over 3 months of agony. I can detach but right now I´m more pretending to in front of her. I still miss her and hate every moment of being in this situation.
Good fake it until you make it.
Originally Posted by BenB
I already have but I can sense it´s not real, I don´t want to go out and do things, I want to be with her. So I think for me to actually want to GAL I have to end this and move on.
If that is what you must do then I suggest you try it. I also will say that it does not stop you from going through the stages of grief, their is no avoiding that. You will need to do that for the relationship no matter what.
Ok so no replies yet but I think I´ve come to a conclusion anyway.
After reading what some poor souls have been through here and many other forums, I don´t think I can go through that. I love her so much but this has been over 3 months of agony. I can detach but right now I´m more pretending to in front of her. I still miss her and hate every moment of being in this situation.
Good fake it until you make it.
Originally Posted by BenB
I already have but I can sense it´s not real, I don´t want to go out and do things, I want to be with her. So I think for me to actually want to GAL I have to end this and move on.
If that is what you must do then I suggest you try it. I also will say that it does not stop you from going through the stages of grief, their is no avoiding that. You will need to do that for the relationship no matter what.
Thank you Cadet, I am unusually calm about this at the moment but I think that´s just for now. When and if it´s truly over, grief will surely hit me. I´ll post again here soon
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
Let me also add that you don't have to end your stand in order to GAL.
You do need to GAL to really DB, so that is part of the reason for my above post. You do need to DETACH, but that does not mean that you can not STAND for your your marriage. It is a tight rope I understand however maybe there are things you wanted to do in the past and had no time to do it. Take the time to do it now.
I have taken genetics classes, other classes on a platform called coursera, which are free. Maybe go hiking, or work out, there are lots of ways to GAL.
I am sorry for the unwanted situation you find yourself in. Yes, the suddenness of it is quite a shock. That realization that she sees things differently than you do, it does send one spinning and panicking a bit.
Don’t read too much into the lack of replies. Things move pretty slowly in the MLC world, including postings sometimes - it’s a marathon, not a sprint. That is the truth. And the LBS needs to accept that, which then in turn usually affect all parts of their life. A more go with the flow kind of view.
Have you read DB by MWD yet? If not, I recommend it. It’s a good book, and an excellent place to start.
I did read your first post the day you arrived. I have been pondering your words and your situation, along with your replies. Remember - marathon. Also another guide that the LBS usually learns and gets ingrained into them - wait 24 or 48 hours before replying to your MLCer. That also affects us; a pause and reflection is usually put in place when conversing, not a definite time like 24 hours, more like a pause to ensure one’s thoughts before speaking, especially with very important matters.
I have a few suggestions and observation regarding your situation as it is described so far.
To me it doesn’t look like, or feel like, a full blown midlife crisis. She is in some form of emotional turmoil, but far short of the inescapable irrationally driving need to destroy her life to get away. Well, at the moment.
Age 34 is rather young to have the pressure of mortality and life pressing down upon one to the breaking point. It is not unheard of to happen so young, just rare. Perhaps a more quarter life crisis is at play. This is more of a transition from 30’s to 40’s, the entering of one’s midlife.
No doubt your wife is having some second thoughts, feelings, desires, and such. The “having a baby”, the growing up required to face that, could stir up suppressed feelings and past unresolved events; which she needs to face and work through.
I do hope she is suffering more a transition than a crisis. However, that is beyond your control. Either of those paths are her’s and she requires the space and time to travel them. It is possible she is just entering the starting of MLC, the stage that we usually don’t see, the triggering part of all this.
Bomb drop happens after this triggering stage and is start of things for the LBS; it is when we know something is serious wrong. Do you know of any events from around 18-24 months ago? Something emotionally charged that may have stirred something within her? A death, a birth, a wedding, etc..?
From you account of events there is a pretty mild bomb drop. So either the true BD is coming, or maybe it is not MLC, more that transition of life.
Originally Posted by BenB
She said she doesn´t know why she is feeling this way but she thinks it will go over on its own. She just needs time and space.
An MLCer will exhibit confusion as they grasp for their new future life and hang on to their past life. Living two (or more) different lives is confusing. Once they make up their mind, the BD time, that new future life is absolute in their resolve. In their mind that is the be all and end all, until it isn’t. I don’t see that conviction from your wife. She doesn’t have that belief in what she is doing. Of course everyone is different, and this is all just guidelines.
Counselling is something that doesn’t work with an MLCer. Usually they will go, just to buy time while planning their exit, and to “try everything to save the marriage”. The latter is very common. Most LBS will have heard how their spouse tried everything and we just wouldn’t fix things so it is over. Of course we don’t even know they are “trying”, or that we are been scrutinized. It wouldn’t matter anyhow, by that point the WAS is looking for justifications and any reasons to further their desire to run.
Originally Posted by BenB
She tells the counselor that she wants to make this work and she has been adamant about that from the start, that we shouldn´t jump to conclusions and that we have been together for 9 years - we can´t just let go like that. She also told him that she doesn´t trust that her feelings about having second thoughts about the marriage are real. She is afraid that if she ends the relationship she´ll realize that that´s not at all what she wanted. But besides that so much fits in with the MLC description. She said it all started with thoughts of having a baby, "is this it, the end??" and she often felt the desire to be "let loose".
Ben, your W does appear to be rather lucid regarding her desire to leave and her misgivings about possible leaving. Being able to articulate her feelings, desires, and problems is a good thing. She is not suppressing them, not running, not hiding. What does that mean? Not sure. Time will tell.
Let’s look to you for a bit.
Originally Posted by BenB
I can see my abs now for the first time in my life.
That is great!
Originally Posted by BenB
I´ve upgraded everything in our house, all furniture etc. Yes, in the back of my mind, I am doing this to make her feel what she would be losing if she left. Is that a bad idea?
Basically - yes.
Trying to show her what she is giving up will backfire. She knows what she is giving up.
You do not want to manipulate her path. Let her walk it. If you want new furniture then buy it - for you! Not in an attempt to coerce her into seeing the better choice.
Originally Posted by BenB
I made sure to sign a prenup before we got married. If she leaves, she leaves with absolutely nothing and could not afford anywhere near the lifestyle she has today. I´m worried about this since I certainly don´t want her to stay in this relationship because she has no other choice.
This is similar to the above. You most definitely do not want her staying out of having no other choice. That being said. She has lots of choices, and if she wants out, she will leave. Money or not. My W left everything! Including our four children. She has no real job, or future, or family, or happinesses... Pretty darn sad what destruction and ruin MLC brings.
Originally Posted by BenB
But despite all this, we still aren´t intimate with each other. We haven´t had sex since January. Is it normal that couples have sex at when one spouse is having a MLC? I haven´t read anything on that anywhere?
A couple having sex while one spouse is in MLC would be pretty uncommon, IMHO. Most times separate bedroom is about the best you can hope for. Usually there is an affair, as sex is a pretty big distraction from whatever pain they cannot face.
Originally Posted by BenB
What do you make of all this? I am prepared for the worst, that this could take years from now. At times, I feel like giving up. And what about sex? She is worth waiting for but am I as LBS supposed to accept the fact that I can’t have sex for years to come?
Originally Posted by BenB
After reading what some poor souls have been through here and many other forums, I don´t think I can go through that. I love her so much but this has been over 3 months of agony. I can detach but right now I´m more pretending to in front of her. I still miss her and hate every moment of being in this situation.
I think I’ve stated a reasonable expression of what I make of all this. I am interested in your take on my observations.
Ben, you are just starting your path. You’ve got a long way to travel. You have made it through the first three agonizing months, well done. It does get better, honest.
Sex. What about sex? Short answer - no sex. Your wife needs space and time, and she will take it. You have to put no pressure on her, she will run with pressure. It pushes her away. And sex is a big pressure! No relationship talk. No sex. No pressure. She will come to you when she is ready. And I am talking about relationship talks, sex is a ways after that. Follow her lead, and be careful - conversations can quickly turn volatile.
Originally Posted by BenB
I already have but I can sense it´s not real, I don´t want to go out and do things, I want to be with her. So I think for me to actually want to GAL I have to end this and move on.
Of course you want to be with her. You are at the start of you path. This is going to take you some time to get through.
Ben, you need to focus on you. Let her be. Give her space and time, with no pressure. Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. You have time, use it wisely.
Detach from her and this situation. This for you - not her. Not an magic way to get her back. It is to save yourself. To allow you to see what you really want to do.
Make changes that you have always wanted to make for yourself. Your abs for example. Again, for you, not to get her back - that just doesn’t work. The changes must be permanent and that only happens when you are doing them for you.
Of course you want to save your marriage. The best way is to focus on you. Become better not bitter. Be the best Ben you can be. She might see these changes and become interested and turn back towards you. That is the bonus part. The real reason you do all this - is for you - no matter how this all plays out, you will be a better person at the end.
Originally Posted by BenB
We have couples therapy scheduled for next Wednesday so I don´t want to make any drastic decisions right away, but most likely I will end our relationship next week. I have a strong urge to do it today but I don´t trust my own feelings so I´ll give it a week before I decide. Once I´ve ended it, that´s it for me. I´ll have to deactivate all my social medias, make sure she moves out of our apartment asap and then and only then can I truly detach from this and start a new life.
Continue counselling if she is willing. Keep it pressure free from your end. Be honest, just not pushy.
You are wise to not trust your feelings, but maybe not in the way you think.
Your feelings are true and real, you can trust that. And you can trust your feeling will change. I know they feel like forever; they are not.
Feeling are fleeting. Do not make decisions based on feelings.
Feeling are real, acknowledge and accept them. Realize what they are, and realize they are only one part of what is truly going on in your life. Thoughts, values, and beliefs - still need to explore these.
I understand your urge to end your relationship. This is has been a very dramatic turn in your life. Your instincts are telling you that you require an equally dramatic reason and solution to fix this. “Ending you relationship” is certainly dramatic. However, the ending, it will not bring you peace, nor comfort, nor joy, nor answers.
You are one of the lucky people who found themselves here. Most poor souls get no support and stumble through this disaster unassisted and with less then stellar results. The advice is counterintuitive, it goes against what you feel is correct. I get it, I was there. Listen to what you’ve read on these compassionate people’s posts, listen to their hard earned wisdom - heed it.
Originally Posted by BenB
I envy you brave people who can go through this for many months and even years. I hope one day I will be as strong as you.
The choice is always your’s.
Do everything you can do to save your marriage. If it still fails, you will have the knowledge that you did all you could do. You will also learn much along the way, and take that into your next relationship, if you choose one.
The growth and grief that you are facing will not go away. You are already walking and moving forward. Keep at it, you have no idea just how strong you can actually be. And that I absolutely know!
Delay making any decisions, you are not in a good place for those major life altering decisions.
I see a lot of possibility with your wife, and situation. Please consider my words. Despair and hopelessness are insidious the way they get within one’s self, and will alter one’s view drastically.
Focus on you. Work on healing.
You need not choose anything right away; and you probably shouldn’t.
I do hope we talk again.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ thank you so much for your detailed reply. I really appreciate you taking your time to write all this.
I haven´t read the DB book but I just ordered it online and will read as soon as I have it. But I´ve read many other books and pretty much everything available online. I´ve also read books on NLP which has helped control my emotions.
The only events I know that could have triggered it is our wedding which was in August last year. Could that really trigger what is happening now? The wedding was beautiful, we were both crying and she never cries usually! It really was the best day of our lives. I would guess us talking about having a baby early January would be the trigger.
I understand what you are saying about couples not having sex when one spouse is having a MLC but this is quite painful for me to accept. Years without any sex ahead of me? I´ve always had a high sex drive. I can wait months but years? I don´t know. That said - I would NEVER pressure her or even bring up the subject of sex as I know better than that, even before this started.
I will listen to your advice and not make any decisons for now. But the one thing I can´t do is accept an affair. If that happens and I find out, I simply have to end it and ask her to move out immediately.
But let´s say I was to tell her that I am unhappy with the way things are now and I would like to move on with my life(which is what I´m feeling right now) and I want us to divorce and for her to find a new place - is that really all bad? Could that not make her realize she is losing me and make her change her mind? I´m really not saying that I want to do this as a strategy to get her back, I am fully aware it is very likely it will end between us and we speak no more. But I can´t help but to think it could shock her back to reality. Am I completely wrong?
She right now thinks I would do anything to make things better between us, not because I say that to her but because we established this early on during therapy when he asked us where we both stand.
Two sessions ago she suggested that perhaps she could try moving out for a few months because she feels like she is in a bubble and she thinks by experiencing living alone that might snap her out of this. Now the thing is that she can´t afford to move out so the only solution would be that I pay for a airbnb and she asked if I could put that as a company expense if we were to do so. I could do this in theory but I didn´t say yes or no when she mentioned it. The therapist stepped in and said he advices against that and that they don´t recommend any drastic changes to our day to day lives during counseling. She then just said "ok" and we left it at that. DnJ, what do you think of that suggestion? Again, I would never put any pessure on her to do anything, except if I decide to divorce her, but could us living apart be helpful? I have to admit, the thought of her moving out feels great right now. I would have the place all to myself and it feels like I could really focus on me even more so than now. But me paying for it, I have doubts about that for sure.
Me: 38 Stbxw: 35 No kids Mini bd: February 6, 2019 ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019 Told her to move out: September 8, 2019 W moved out: September 28, 2019 Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
