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We are here for you my man!

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Update:
Kids had their golf league practice last night. It was W night with the kids but I offered to help get them to course as she had to work late.

Really nice day in my area so I was sitting up on the deck having some wine and dinner with friends. She got off work a little after golf ended so I fed the kids at the club and continued to hang with friends and have some drinks. When she arrived the boys were down playing around on range/practice area and so I offered her to order dinner and have a drink (she accepted). From there my friend started ordering tequila (again) <-- yes there might be a theme here smile We all had a really good time hanging out. This is important as it was her seeing my GAL in person, we were talking about nights in the last week where we had a really good time at the club golfing, drinking, hanging out (while she had the kids). It was so pleasing for me to watch her hear this and know that i'm 100% out GAL without her. Due to conversation going on she made multiple comments about my new 'look'. We talked a lot about events coming up a the club (tournaments) that usually have a 'spouse' night, etc. I have not invited her to any of these and one of the main events starts next week (she has the kids). She asked about this multiple times in the evening, I answered questions about dates and timing but then changed the subject. I will NOT be inviting her to this. She also made comments about taking Golf lessons (it has been something I've wanted her to do for along time) Its also something she has wanted for a long time (mainly cause she's the only one in the family that does not golf - so for the kids) but due to resentment of golf/club she never took any initiative to get it done. When she made these comments I just looked at her and gave her "that look" which she knew meant... It would have been great for you to take lessons in the past, and yes I would like you to take lessons BUT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE HERE TAKING LESSONS UNLESS/UNTIL YOU DECIDE WHO/WHAT YOU ARE DOING. There is NO DOUBT in my mind she knew EXACTLY WHAT THIS LOOK WAS. Anyway...

As the night went on kids were back and forth to the table and course entertaining themselves and she made a couple of comments about staying at my house. I just ignored them. Finally at the end of the night as I was packing up the kids and their stuff she found me, walked up to me and said "KISS ME!". I did, a quick one but a good one. She then said "Hey, so can we come over"? I said: Ok' sure. didn't make anything of it. Came over put the kids down and we went to bed and had sex again.

Of course this was nice, but I still am not putting anything on it (Yet). It's clearly a "step" but I know that this could just be what we are doing at this time due to space/time and no decisions have been made. For me, I basically just 'hooked-up" with someone I know really well. I understand that she very well could hang out with OM over this long weekend when I'm camping with the kids (without her). Fine! get it out of your system. I know what I have to offer in all areas. That grass IS NOT greener over there - so all the power to you.

For me.. this is just a form of feeling each other out, like you might do at the beginning of any relationship. I'm not together with her, I'm also not stopping what I'm doing with GAL and focusing on detachment. Admittedly this might make 'real' detachment a little harder, but I still believe that if I continue to focus on fake till you make it... she'll get the general feeling that although this is 'nice', I'm fine with or WITHOUT her. Shes' getting a little of what she wants, she's attracted to me again, but she also knows she does not fully have me. It's a bit of a tease and I'm becoming OM now.

I have the kids out of town through Monday, then again on Tuesday night. From Wednesday through Sunday night of next week I'm either fully booked with work or in the tournament. So timing was perfect for me to set this stage and then get back to focusing ONLY on me and GAL.

The fog is lifting...


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

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I'm glad you're attracting her back. But having sex with your wife while she's sleeping with another person? Or potentially sleeping with another person? If it were me I don't think so.... Better wrap your stump before you hump! At the very least. As long as you are okay with having no expectations on either side. Glad to hear you're enjoying your GAL time and are living large.

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Yep 'Safety first'! Covered! - Literately

I know, it's not easy thinking she could also be with other people, but that could be true if I'm with her or not (same with any other girl I may date). I do think that has slowed (if not stopped) - the physical at least. Still more curious about emotional - but that's only my assumption. In other words I don't currently feel like I'm actively 'sharing' only starting to re-attract and see if the feelings are mutual.

I think I just judge the 'limbo' stage a little differently than most. I don't like being in this situation and do wish she was fully broken and running back to me - but the truth is, if she did that tomorrow it would scare me for multiple reasons. Essentially I'm taking it very slow emotionally by limiting all expectations and just focusing what I want at the time. As I said; I'm SOOOO VERY happy to be leaving this weekend and busy next week. Then neither I nor her can act on this 'momentum" too soon. As I I do believe it's to soon for any additional steps or consistent interaction. I'm just 'playing' now, giving her similar "honeymoon' feelings that she is/was getting from OM. So that she can see it is right here as well, it's not gone. Does she deserve? - No! but thats a different story for later. And I'm doing it more for my needs/wants than I am hers (at least thats what I've convinced myself so far). Risk/Reward! Could get crushed again, or could eventually WIN.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

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Then I initiated a R talk. I told her that I would still like to see if this R has the ability for reconciliation and that I would be willing to date her again. HOWEVER if we move to this step I would expect monogamy during that time. She understood this request. I told her that offer will not stand indefinitely. I told her that I believe the time/space has been great for both of us and that I think right now is too early to make any final decisions, but I don’t believe she should need too much more time to decide if this family is worth working on or not. I do not like being “in limbo” and I either want to pour all of my energy into us and reconciliation or I want to pour it into a new life. I told her that I have some things that I want to do this summer and I said I don’t picture myself going the entire summer not knowing if I should be planning these events with her, the family, or other people. She asked “like what” – I said: “it shouldn’t matter – you would need to decide first”. She talked about the letters again and how much she appreciated them, she talked about missing me (I also told her I missed her). Then I hugged her, Kissed her, and we had sex!


shocked

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First time in 5 months. I initiated 100% of it but she responded 100% in return. I DO NOT THINK THIS MEANS ANYTHING. I did it because I wanted to. I knew I could, I had withheld all of that attention previously. Mostly to ‘not be a nice guy’ but also I had hoped that withholding would maybe ‘bring her around’. This time, it is what I wanted, so I went and got it. Then… I was about to miss my scheduled Tee time so I had to rush her out. She kinda gave me a funny look (as my time golfing and being a way from the house was a huge BD issue) but It wasn’t my weekend with the kids and the sex was over – so I walked out the door with her, locked the house, said have a nice day and went to the course. &#61663; not a nice guy thing!


shocked shocked

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But I’m still confident that my situation is a bit unique.


How is it unique?

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I still fear that she WILL come back and work on this but may not be willing to do all the things I would want moving forward (transparency plan, possibly new job, etc) or maybe she just cheats again.


Do you mean you fear her deceiving you.......or do you fear she'll get back in the house and then refuse to cooperate with your terms? If this is what you mean, let me assure you of how important it is that she has expressed remorse and has taken full responsibility for her wayward actions, apologized to you for the lies, deceit, betrayal, etc. This needs to occur before you agree to reconcile. You can hold out for this, b/c you are not living under the same roof with her. If you start sleeping with her, it complicates things. She'll slither under the door without meeting any of those requirements, and more than likely, she won't be committed to working on the MR 100%, b/c you took her back without requiring her to do certain things, first. There are never any guarantees, but I'm trying to give you some guidance in how to get back the W you once loved, and hopefully, have a better MR in the future.

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But no matter how objectively I try to look at this situation, her actions, I cannot get this sitch to fit into the normal WW box that seems to be so black and white on this site.


Then tell me how your sitch or your W is unique, if that's why you can't fit it into the WW box. Maybe then we would know better what you are dealing with. Otherwise, it appears as if you just want to do what your feelings dictate. I understand this is your life and you'll do what you see best. The reason we try to tell you what to do with a WW, is based mostly on experience and observation. So, if you'll tell us how your W is different, then maybe we'll stop giving the same advice. See what I mean?

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We have so much to work through. I just want that opportunity and I don’t believe she has to be totally broken (in my sitch) to get that opportunity.


Sometimes I will read where someone will tell a newcomer that their WW will have to hit rock bottom before she'll change, or before he can have a successful reconciliation. Well, I didn't hit rock bottom. I did experience enough to get my eyes opened. I followed the advice of my mentors and ended all contact with the OM. I made a decision to do the right thing, and ended the A. It was not what I felt like doing. I did the right action, but I was not broken, had not hit rock bottom, and I did not feel remorse. IMHO, the uniqueness in a WW may come when they feel true remorse. And until she feels remorse for what she did to her H, it's going to take a long, long time and much work to see growth in the relationship. I really don't think she can feel the love for him as her H, as long as she feels justified in cheating on him. B/c that includes the disrespect, resentment, arrogance, selfishness, and the whole nine yards of waywardness. So, if the couple is physically separated, I would advise the H to wait until he is convinced she has remorse.

My H and I did not separate. Although I ended my A, I did not let go of the fantasy, and until I did......loving feelings for my H did not return. It took me nearly two years before I finally asked God to help me feel remorse and sincerely apologize for what I had done. When the remorseful feelings finally came, I went to H with my heart broken from what I had done to him, our M, and our family. You see, I couldn't feel love and respect for my H as long as I kept my A alive by fantasizing about it.

I believe it is so important that a WW experiences humbleness in her heart. It has to break through her willful pride and stubbornness. It has to break her sense of entitlement and arrogance, or you'll still have a wayward W. That's what so many LBH's don't get. They just want the A to end, or just get her back. I can agree with you about some things regarding reconciliation before she is completely broken, but I'm just saying the more she overcomes before reconciling, the better for both of you. But before you take her back, it is imperative she ends her A, and agrees to NC with him. Even if it means her finding another job or moving to another location, then so be it. That is top priority, b/c the M doesn't stand a chance as long as she's getting her "fix" from contacting OM. If she's not willing to leave her job b/c OM is there, then don't expect her to accomplish the other work that's needed. I'm talking about the work she has to do as a WW.

Some things she may have to process is learning how to show respectful behavior, and letting go of everything in the past that she resents, and let go of blaming you. She has to forgive you. Now all of this may not happen at once, and she may have to work through or process some issues with the help of therapy. I'm just trying to get you to understand the importance of not taking a WW back before she commits to doing whatever is necessary to save the M. It starts with ending the A and NC with OM. Don't take her back, until she ends the A.

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We have so much to work through.


Some things we need to work through as individuals, and some things as couples. Once she get completely through withdrawals from OM, then the road is open to resolve other problems. I strongly encourage couples to find an experienced therapist who deals with healing after an affair. But until she has OM out of her head, nothing is going to work.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi2,

I get so much out of your posts. Thank you for sharing.

-SoloFlex

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Thank you, SoloFlex. I'm glad to hear it.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Any updates?

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Hi LH,
Update should come today. It' will probably be another big one. As you've noticed I've been offline for a while and there is A LOT! to update on. I also need to make sure answer some of Sandi's questions above.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

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It’s been a really busy couple weeks for me and my sitch. Let me first start by answering Sandi’s questions:
Sandi, I believe my sitch is a little unique because:
1. I BD her at the same time she BD me. Both of us were unfaithful and I think this shook her to the core almost as much as me finding out about her OM
2. My W has not had a lot of the WW characteristics… Avoiding kids/family, being mean to me, etc. We don’t really ‘fight’. She’s been polite in all of her interactions since BD. More than me.
3. Because I recorded conversations, I have a pretty good idea where her head is at in relation to the Sitch and OM. Obviously, this still can’t be relied on 100% because there is always an unknown perspective she might have even when sharing information with her friends. But I believe it has allowed me to fully understand the situation and her lack of love/interest in these men. I’m confident she is out seeking validation/love/belonging from these OM. Not yet in love or looking to ‘replace’ me. Per my IC she basically reached an emotional breaking point and went into crisis.

I’m afraid she’ll want to reconcile because its comfortable and because of the family structure but not want to do the correct/necessary process to properly address the infidelity and learn how to build a new, better and deeper relationship. Basically, allowing the opportunity to just end up finding our original equilibrium. I’m also fearful that she doesn’t understand the draw/pull of Limerence and therefore she thinks she can stop OM when she is ‘happy in our relationship’. Before this last weekend I was also afraid that she wouldn’t be willing to have a full transparency plan to rebuild trust (or fully understand the need) but this has changed (more in the update below)
Update:
First took the boys out of town for a long weekend with Grandma/Grandpa. Playing, swimming, bike riding - great time for everyone. It was great to be away and forget the drama and focus on the kids. I also believe W has been taking some time to herself to reflect. I can’t prove this but based on her actions towards me it feels like a reasonable assumption. Also, because we were on a ‘vacation’ the kids were up late and every night when they wanted to call W it was around 10pm or a little later. Each night she was at home alone (as far as I know) but the kids always use facetime (not just phone call) and based on the way she walked and talked around the apartment - I’m pretty sure no one else was there. She also did not look all ‘done up’ like she was going to be rushing out the door as soon as the call was over. She has also said to me multiple times that she is not “seeing anyone”. Based on information here (believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do) I have assumed she is still GGW or some PA but nothing ‘serious’ in regard to ‘seeing’ someone. But it is possible that she isn’t doing any of it right now.
After we returned from our trip; the kids had their golf league practice on Thursday again. We attended together and ended up having dinner and drinks again with friends on the deck. She came over and spent the night again (had sex again). Very little R talk, but a few little conversations about wanting to try. Just nothing specific about how/when we make that jump to trying/piecing as she knows this takes a specific conversation and commitment (both to each other and to MC). I just let it go as I want her to be sure and not jump into it. I’m not pressuring for this step right now. Just creating a good opportunity for her to think about it, make a conscious decision and then let me know.
I had the golf tournament this last weekend (it was a team event) and my partners W invited my W to come hang out at the club with her during the tournament (I knew nothing about this). Even though him and his wife know exactly what is going on in our sitch. They are the ones that just recently moved across the street. I think she was trying to set this up for a couple of reasons. 1. She does think reconciliation is possible so maybe just creating another opportunity for us all to hang out. Or two, like this board she also doesn’t trust my W right now. So she may have been testing her to see if she would want to take the necessary steps (ask me, get babysitter, etc) to come hang out or not.
This started out very well. After the tournament we all ate and had a lot of drinks partying with a lot of new people (not my normal crowd). She was all over me, holding hands, hugging, kissing, just as if she was my W again. It was fun but odd for me as well as I don’t feel like we are at that point. But I do understand the draw in that situation to feel good and want to just act like old times again. We already had plans for her to stay at my house that night because that is where they babysitter was watching the kids (and because we both knew we wanted to spend the night together again). But at the VERY end of the night it took a different turn. We were leaving the club and I walked her back to her car and she started a relationship talk. She finally broke down crying and was remorseful for everything and apologized profusely. She said she couldn’t believe all that she had done and who she had become. It was great! Almost everything I needed/wanted to hear. But then I had to ‘test’ her. As there are still things, I know that she doesn’t know that I know. She had made a comment that she hadn’t slept with anyone since we had decided to ‘work’ on our relationship. Which I had her clarify what ‘date’ she was referring to. She was talking about when I found out about the PA and confirmed it with her as well as BD her with my own information – So January. I then looked her dead in the eyes and THAT IS A LIE! YOU NEED TO STOP LYING TO ME! Because GGW even was in February. She then proceeded to try and defend this by telling half-truths which was insinuating that she didn’t ‘sleep’ with anyone. What she was saying was true (technically) but what she was insinuating (that sex did not happen) was a lie. So I pressed her again and told her she cannot lie to me anymore. She finally broke and admitted it but now she was ANGRY! I explained that she started this conversation and I have not once pushed her for any details, but that she know my expectation was complete honesty and that its hard for me to believe her remorse when she’s continuing to lie to me. She told me to get out of the car, she was upset because she was trying to open up and be vulnerable and that all I try to do is remind her of her cheating. I explained that this is not true, only that we need to be in counseling discussing this stuff (in a safe environment) so that we can get it all on the table and deal with it properly. She again asked me to get out the car.. So I said “okay” and I did. I get in my car went home, paid the babysitter, went to bed and she went to the apartment. I woke up, took the kids to grandparents as W had to work the next day and I had the golf tournament. After dropping off the kids I dropped my W bag of clothes and all her bathroom stuff off to her at her apartment. I also wanted to discuss the night before as I do believe that alcohol had a part in the negative events of that night based on how much we had both been drinking. It was a much better conversation she apologized again – but I could still tell she was a little defensive. I explained that I just need her to open up and be honest with me, stop trying to hide her affairs and once she comes clean, I then can start to believe that she is focused on honesty. I left it there and went to my tournament.
We have since shared a couple of long emails/letters back and forth. Not the most ideal way to communicate but at this point it seems to be the only way she can open up. She is still VERY remorseful but as expected she is also still very violated by my surveillance of her. Which I understand. After talking to my IC I can understand what her perspective might be. She is remorseful she is sorry but it is hard for anyone to think about having to admit to EVERY infidelity (EA/PA). Although that may be part of the process in the future she is feeling very violated and out of control in regards to what/when she has to share this information. For example: I already know that to rebuild this the right way I need to disclose all of my infidelity details (to a point) but even I feel a bit nervous about some of it (and I actually have the ability to withhold the information if I want to, because no one else know. She does not have this luxury as she doesn’t know what I know and the pressure of being ‘forced’ to disclose it just to “prove” she’s being honest does not feel quit right to her yet.
So for now I’m cutting her a little slack on this (not telling her she has slack) only that I’m not going to NOT make too much out of the fact that she wasn’t 100% honest in this first conversation. I’m going to take all of this as a positive as my boundaries have not changed. Reconciliation requires monogamy commitment, MC, & transparency plan (both of us). She knows this. She has yet to fully accept but she is also aware of my ultimatum – she has a specific amount of time before I turn the other way and actually start living the single life. She mentioned it in one of the letters. I explained that I’m not asking for another 16yrs of marriage. I’m asking for effort to rebuild (in the right way) and if it doesn’t work then we agree to have an open conversation about ending our effort/relationship before running into the arms of other people.
As of now the ball is in her court again. I wrote the last letter/email to her and have yet to receive a response, but I did mention that the last few Thursdays at the club have been great with her around and I hope that we continue that path. I also hope she can see my perspective and at least understand why we need a 3rd party to sift through this mess with us (MC). I’m not sure what to expect… only that I’m okay if it takes her some time still to commit. I plan to now go back to zero pressure. Back to time/space and not try to rush it. I might get a feel for it in 2 days when we are at the kids golf practice, but I will not try to pressure or expect anything. Only to try and have a good cordial time again.
She could still BD me again and turn the other way. If this happens, I will take this as her ‘final’ decision and I will then move in the other direction. However, my gut tells me that this will not happen. So I will stay focused on paving the way back for her (smoothly) and allowing her to make the decision on her own.
This is a lot but I feel like I’m still leaving out a lot of detailed information. So let me know what you think, if you have any questions I might be able to clarify cause some of this is very recent but there were some other events over the last 1.5-2 weeks that got us here. I might be relevant but I just can’t really recapture it all without writing novel #2 tonight.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

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