Complex WW and/or MLC #3

[AnotherStander]

W: Good Morning! Just wanted you to know I"m thinking about you and 11yrs ago was a very happy and special memory for me (heart emoji) I hop you have a good day and I love you.

I had this too.

Lots of texts and emails like this. They meant absolutely nothing.

I can count the number of ones I responded to on one hand.

Yup me too. Falls under the category of "I don't want to be married to you anymore, but we're such a great team and should remain buddies!"

[IHCLACS]

Accept nothing but FULL R on YOUR TERMS. The ILY is just a breadcrumb. There is a difference between feeling a sentiment in the moment, and re-committing to spending the rest of your life with someone.

[IHCLACS]

Yup me too. Falls under the category of "I don't want to be married to you anymore, but we're such a great team and should remain buddies"

^^^^ THAT SUMS IT PERFECTLY

[P_Jam]

Noted. All good points and generally I agree. We'll find out in time. I know the DB strategy is to "move on NOW" but I guess I'm going to give time and space and then give her one more chance to either begin piecing, hurt me again, or THEN move on - which for me means OW/Dating.

[LH19]

PJ,

What is your timeline?

[GH31]

I know the DB strategy is to "move on NOW"

There is no single "DB strategy".

DB = use what works, reject what doesn't work.

You will be emotionally incapable of "moving on" right now given the timeline in your signature but what you can do is keep contact with her to an absolute bare minimum and GAL - start doing things which enrich you (as hard as that is) and 100% on your terms.

I'm going to give time and space and then give her one more chance to either begin piecing, hurt me again, or THEN move on - which for me means OW/Dating.

How do you mean "give her one more chance"? You have absolutely no say in that matter until she comes back to you, broken, and asking for another chance.

These situations happen in slow motion. There is no hurrying them along. You can hinder their progression by getting in your W's face and/or grabbing frantically at the morsels of bait she throws at you - just enough of it to keep you on the hook. The very best thing you can do is to get completely out of her way.

There is zero chance of this even resembling a marriage if she is out there dating/banging other men.

You will simply be used like a tampon and chucked aside as needed.

I have never once seen a situation like this recover unless the man took an extremely firm stand against his adulterous wife's behaviour, especially their inevitable attempts to have their cake and eat it too.

[IHCLACS]

Speaking of time. Im glad you mentioned that, which leads me to my next reply. Something hit me on the way home. Your time is important, its always important, its much more important than someone that wants nothing to do with us. Think about this in terms of women's biology, mindset, dating, attraction, etc. Its what they value most. Probably the reason why prior marital history no longer means anything to them anymore. Its in the past. Women want change, and Men want things to stay the same. The only thing they see is a future without us! Here is another thought or two. I noticed the more I GAL and go out which is far and few in between, the W ramps it up as well. Something occurred to me with GGW/New clothes new perfume/purses/make up, spa and nail treatments, etc. Ever notice, especially when you have young kids, people kind of let themselves go? Then just after BD on both parties, people start trying new things, good, clothes, PEOPLE, company, goals, etc, They start going out a lot kind of as an escape. Not only from the kids, but from the spouses. I believe a part of it is self care, and another part of it, whether intentional or not is not only a self esteem booster, but I also think it's meant to attract other people. In other words. Its mentally living the single life while still being married until divorce. Its funny how we all go looking for the fountain of youth. So act single. Think single, do all the things you did when you were single. Not for just a reaction, but just because its nice to feel attractive again.

[P_Jam]

LH 19,

Generally speaking my timeline is flexible based on things that do/don't happen over the next few months with the exception of a general commitment to seeing if this relationship is salvageable or not. I want to date her again, I want to win back her respect and love (without sacrificing my own integrity and growth) therefore I won't date her without SOME commitment to not seeing other people. I do not expect her to move back in right away. I want the apartment to be as much of plan 'b' for me/us as it might be for her. I will have no way to know if she is/will cheat on me again but she too will have the same issue/concern on my side. We will both be taking some risks that require trust.

My general timeline is to let her know that my "waiting" for her is not infinite and that I will need to know one way or the other (in the next 30-45 days) giving her 3 months out of the house and when that conversations happens allowing about another 30 days to actually respond/answer to what she wants to do. I do not expect to go 'back' to a 'marriage' only to have a basic commitment to start over and do work together to see if we are able to get over the infidelity and resentment. It is essentially and ultimatum to work on this together or not.

I've always maintained that my W does not really fit into some of the stereotypes that seem to be so consistent here with WW/WAS. Of course some of the scripts are the same as well as some of the actions but there are many that are not. Essentially she found out about my previous infidelity at the same time I found out about hers. I have to accept that her pain in this area is real and just as fresh as my wounds. There is no doubt she justified her actions based on years of resentment that has built up, as she did not know about mine when she cheated but that does not change the pain for her. I believe that both of us WANT this to work out as she has made it clear that she can look back and remember many good times. We just don't know how to do it and we both wonder if too much damage has been done for it to actually work.

I also believe that DB'ing and the short amount of time/space has started to give us both opportunity to reflect and wonder what MIGHT be possible both with and without each other. I think we both wonder what we should do. I do not believe she is committed to leaving me yet. She has questions, she has resentment, she has decided the old relationship is over (as have I) but she has not decided that it can't be fixed. I do believe there is a possibility I could be "plan b" and she very well might decide that she still doesn't think it's possible and therefore not worth the work/effort. But I do not believe she is saying/doing the things she is; ONLY to find another branch before leaving this one. Essentially I expect baby steps in the right direction, and if she decides she wants to 'try' I expect MC. But I also know it's possible in the next few months that she may relapse. I actually just hope I don't find out about it. As I do believe that she will either get through it in time and/or finally make a clear decision that she is no longer willing to work on it. I know it's not full DB'ing but I believe she needs to see and feel that fulfillment is possible inside this relationship. I think her biggest fear is trying (knowing it will take a lot of work/time) only to find out she is still not fulfilled. Therefore aside from feeling some loss (of me and the relationship) she also needs to see and feel potential - which I'm not sure she will get by the generally rigid DB strategy. We both need the opportunity to be vulnerable again with each other. Stupid or not, I'm willing to take the risk with her and put myself out there. Knowing full well she could crush me again. I will not do it blindly and without some fear, but I would still do it anyway.

In short, I know it has not been 'long enough' but right now I don't believe that a little pursuit will actually push her farther away. I know it will not solve the issues, but I am getting the feeling/signs that she does actually want to see some action from me towards her. I will take it very slow but do believe I should be backing off LRT a little and reminding her that she is worth the effort to me and that the next relationship will be different.

[P_Jam]

I have never once seen a situation like this recover unless the man took an extremely firm stand against his adulterous wife's behaviour, especially their inevitable attempts to have their cake and eat it too.

This is the type of information that causes me the most concern here. Based on the amount of LBS's that come through here I find it hard to believe that "NEVER" have you seen R "without an extremely firm stand"

I personally know 2 couples that have survived (currently) infidelity in closer to 6-9 months rather than the 12-24 that is consistently spoken about here. My IC also states that there are many that can start the piecing process MUCH sooner. Granted the key is both being committed to the work both together and individually. I respect a lot of the information/strategy here and I think almost all of it is true in a generalized sense. I also believe that those of you that spend your personal time here giving advice (that is often hard to hear) are giving it with the absolute best intentions.

I will stay here and continue to post, I will do so for my own good as a sounding board as well as getting different ideas and views as well as providing a place to document the sitch for others to prove/deny my thoughts on the subject. I hope you all don't give up on me just because I can't do it exactly your way. In time, we will all find out if this works or not.

[LH19]

PJ,

I am not saying I don't agree with some of what you say but what I do disagree about is your timeline. Bare minimum should be six months. I think waiting until after Christmas would be better.