I dealt with the exact same scenario! My exWW would never make a decision on anything or speak up and voice her opinion. I think I wrote about it in my threads. I would suggest something and give her my thoughts on a subject and she would agree. I can't read minds. If someone agrees with me, I have to assume they actually agree with the subject matter at hand! Come to find out after BD, she now thinks that she never got to "voice" her opinion. Even though I would come talk to her about any decision. (e.g. Me: Would it be alright if I go to Canada bear hunting? Her: Sure, it sounds like a blast). Not sure if its just her rewriting history or if she truly felt like she couldn't voice an opinion.
My W has -- from my POV -- completely rewritten history to suggest that I "decided everything we did." Also that I wouldn't "allow" her to go out without me or to have people come over to our house. In my mind I encouraged both. Among our family and friends she is notorious for not wanting anyone to come over here, and for texting me nonstop ("When are you coming home? Where are you?") every single time I went out to do anything. Even Saturday morning errands. Seems like projection. She knows she got mad when I did anything alone, so she assumed I got mad when she did and self-censored.
Originally Posted by Wanted1
Like everyone says, its a marathon not a sprint. They need to go through the process and realize it's them not us that create their unhappiness. Eventually, I would think they will open their eyes to the fact that every relationship they enter into after us goes down the same path and they are the common denominator. But, maybe not. The good news is, at that point, we don't have to deal with it anymore!
I don't see that as good news, I see it as an absolute tragedy. I've often read on here that the LBS ends up in a better place than the WAS because the BD and DB process force introspection and an effort at self-improvement. The WAS is not going through the same process. I think it's really unfortunate that a once-happy couple is destroyed and kids' family live changed forever because one person isn't willing or able to self-examine.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
For me achieving some degree of understanding what has happened to my marriage is necessary to begin the process of moving forward. I never will truly understand all of it, I doubt she will either, but I don't know how to move forward without making some sense of something that rocked my entire world.
Believe me I understand your motivation. Just please try and listen to someone who has already been down that road- you need to let go of that need to understand. It will just eat you up. A lot of us male LBS's that end up here are very intelligent, analytical types. We feel like we need to understand and make sense of it and apply logic to it. But a WAS is driven purely by emotions that they typically don't even understand themselves. It just doesn't make sense and it never will.
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Understood. But if this plays out to its most likely conclusion, at best I'm splitting time with my daughter. That to me is a very severe punishment.
You can choose to see it that way. Personally I think it's much healthier if you choose to see it as a change in your life that may be against your will, but was inevitable. Your situation changed, your marriage changed, and it got to the point where it could no longer be sustained. You think it's your W's fault? She would probably tell us it's your fault. The healthiest thing for YOU is to let go of the blame, accept your situation and make the best of it. Your way will lead to anger and resentment. My way will lead to peace, contentment, and eventually happiness. How do I know? Because I've already walked the walk.
Like everyone says, its a marathon not a sprint. They need to go through the process and realize it's them not us that create their unhappiness. Eventually, I would think they will open their eyes to the fact that every relationship they enter into after us goes down the same path and they are the common denominator. But, maybe not. The good news is, at that point, we don't have to deal with it anymore!
I don't see that as good news, I see it as an absolute tragedy. I've often read on here that the LBS ends up in a better place than the WAS because the BD and DB process force introspection and an effort at self-improvement. The WAS is not going through the same process. I think it's really unfortunate that a once-happy couple is destroyed and kids' family live changed forever because one person isn't willing or able to self-examine.
What I mean by good news is that you wouldn't have to deal with someone who's unhappy and resentful. The only way that changes is if they make the conscious effort to change and look inwardly at their problems and want to change. The operative word there is WANT. That takes a long, long time. You are right, it is an absolute tragedy. It pains me that I'm part of the D statistic now. I never, ever wanted my kids to be part of a broken household/family. But, we have to realize and acknowledge that it takes two people to make a relationship work. And you, just like me, can only control one.
We, as the LBS, get our worlds' rocked and therefore, we are the stronger person in the relationship since we acknowledge, to some extent, our deficiencies in our relationship/marriage. While DB is for us, ultimately, we all start the process hoping to bust the divorce as the name suggests. We start out doing the things we learn here in hopes that it will turn our situation around. It didn't turn mine around and unfortunately, I'm in the majority there.
I'm getting pretty windy here so I'll try to land the plane....you aren't going to do anything that makes her change. That has to come on her own volition. In reality, that should be how you want it to be. Do you really want to continue to manage and deal with the resentment and unhappiness of a spouse? The projection, gas lighting, blame shifting, etc? Some people can maybe make that work. I couldn't. I am free from the constant 'what-if' questions that would consume my mind 24/7. I don't have to wonder anymore if she's actually agreeing with what I suggest and say or if she's holding back her own opinions and what she really thinks. You need to let her go so she can do her own self-discovery while you do yours. Otherwise it'll be same song, second verse.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
Believe me I understand your motivation. Just please try and listen to someone who has already been down that road- you need to let go of that need to understand. It will just eat you up. A lot of us male LBS's that end up here are very intelligent, analytical types. We feel like we need to understand and make sense of it and apply logic to it. But a WAS is driven purely by emotions that they typically don't even understand themselves. It just doesn't make sense and it never will.
Thanks. Guilty as charged on analytical. I've spent a fair amount of time figuring out what I need to improve in myself. I do feel like having had a flash of insight (potential insight?) into her end of it has made me feel a little better.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
You can choose to see it that way. Personally I think it's much healthier if you choose to see it as a change in your life that may be against your will, but was inevitable. Your situation changed, your marriage changed, and it got to the point where it could no longer be sustained. You think it's your W's fault? She would probably tell us it's your fault. The healthiest thing for YOU is to let go of the blame, accept your situation and make the best of it. Your way will lead to anger and resentment. My way will lead to peace, contentment, and eventually happiness. How do I know? Because I've already walked the walk.
Right now, at least, I still don't see this as inevitable at all. I think it's foolish, bad for everyone, and completely unnecessary.
What got us to August 2018 was the fault of both of us, and I'd even say my fault somewhat more. But I believe that the decision to shut down the marriage in every way except actually filing for D is entirely on my wife. It's not what I want. I was willing to face my flaws and work on them, she was too busy convincing herself she'd never done a single thing wrong in her life and all would be fairies and unicorns if only she could be free of me.
Agree 100% that my way is leading to anger and resentment, both of which I have plenty of these days. Perhaps for reasons unique to my situation, I'm not at all confident that S or D will lead to peace, contentment, or happiness. In the short- to medium-term, at least, it's likely to get worse before it gets better. I can't control it, so I guess I better find a way to accept it.
Last edited by Niall11; 05/09/1907:32 PM.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
What I mean by good news is that you wouldn't have to deal with someone who's unhappy and resentful. The only way that changes is if they make the conscious effort to change and look inwardly at their problems and want to change. The operative word there is WANT. That takes a long, long time. You are right, it is an absolute tragedy. It pains me that I'm part of the D statistic now. I never, ever wanted my kids to be part of a broken household/family. But, we have to realize and acknowledge that it takes two people to make a relationship work. And you, just like me, can only control one.
We, as the LBS, get our worlds' rocked and therefore, we are the stronger person in the relationship since we acknowledge, to some extent, our deficiencies in our relationship/marriage. While DB is for us, ultimately, we all start the process hoping to bust the divorce as the name suggests. We start out doing the things we learn here in hopes that it will turn our situation around. It didn't turn mine around and unfortunately, I'm in the majority there.
I'm getting pretty windy here so I'll try to land the plane....you aren't going to do anything that makes her change. That has to come on her own volition. In reality, that should be how you want it to be. Do you really want to continue to manage and deal with the resentment and unhappiness of a spouse? The projection, gas lighting, blame shifting, etc? Some people can maybe make that work. I couldn't. I am free from the constant 'what-if' questions that would consume my mind 24/7. I don't have to wonder anymore if she's actually agreeing with what I suggest and say or if she's holding back her own opinions and what she really thinks. You need to let her go so she can do her own self-discovery while you do yours. Otherwise it'll be same song, second verse.
I agree with every single thing you've written here. Especially about not wanting this for my kid.
Being in the house with her, essentially living separate lives, has been awful. Maybe the next chapter, which for me is likely to bring some serious downside, will at least be liberating in that I'll be away from her and all of that. I've been thinking recently that I have, at the moment, two somewhat incompatible goals: to be with my D2 as much as possible and not to see my W again for a very long time
Last edited by Niall11; 05/09/1907:31 PM.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
Right now, at least, I still don't see this as inevitable at all. I think it's foolish, bad for everyone, and completely unnecessary.
What got us to August 2018 was the fault of both of us, and I'd even say my fault somewhat more. But I believe that the decision to shut down the marriage in every way except actually filing for D is entirely on my wife. It's not what I want. I was willing to face my flaws and work on them, she was too busy convincing herself she'd never done a single thing wrong in her life and all would be fairies and unicorns if only she could be free of me.
Agree 100% that my way is leading to anger and resentment, both of which I have plenty of these days. Perhaps for reasons unique to my situation, I'm not at all confident that S or D will lead to peace, contentment, or happiness. In the short- to medium-term, at least, it's likely to get worse before it gets better. I can't control it, so I guess I better find a way to accept it.
I feel exactly the way you do, Niall. D is not what I want. I want to work on the issues. I want to fix my flaws, I want to go to MC and work hard, together, with my W. I have anger and resentment that she resists. (Keep in mind I haven't had the BD yet, but I know it's coming in the next 1-2 months). I think S or D will lead to unhappiness. I fight anger and resentment.
The last thing you said is exactly right - you can't control it, you can only accept it, and work on yourself. All the blaming (either of yourself, or your W, or both) and resentment and anger, although completely understandable and part of this process, will not help you. Focus on things that are helpful to achieving your personal goals.
I feel exactly the way you do, Niall. D is not what I want. I want to work on the issues. I want to fix my flaws, I want to go to MC and work hard, together, with my W. I have anger and resentment that she resists. (Keep in mind I haven't had the BD yet, but I know it's coming in the next 1-2 months). I think S or D will lead to unhappiness. I fight anger and resentment.
The last thing you said is exactly right - you can't control it, you can only accept it, and work on yourself. All the blaming (either of yourself, or your W, or both) and resentment and anger, although completely understandable and part of this process, will not help you. Focus on things that are helpful to achieving your personal goals.
J'aime les chiens.
I've read a bit of your story and I see similarities and some differences. FWIW, my wife hasn't done a single thing about divorce. Hasn't even spoken the word. Closest she's come is to say she doesn't want to work on the relationship. Her actions say she's done, at least for the moment, and that's what matters. The most important thing (easier said than done) is to do the work on yourself without constantly worrying if it will make her notice and have a change of heart.
I had the exact same instincts as you, but I would say not to go to MC at this point. I did, and the counselor was anti-divorce but I'm not sure was the right fit for us. W went with me the first time, then insisted on going separately and basically treated her sessions as IC. The counselor broached with her having both of us come in again, and she pulled the plug. If the (potential) WAS is not invested, often they treat it as something they can cross off on a checklist. Tried that, didn't work, guess the marriage is doomed. It really takes two people willing to do the work.
M 44, W 32 T 10, M 8 D 2 Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W) Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF Still live together but a lot of tension
Man you guys are seriously hitting a serious cord with everything you said here. Glad to know well I shouldn't say glad relieved is more like it to know that I'm not the only one with these feelings and for the same reasons
Man you guys are seriously hitting a serious cord with everything you said here. Glad to know well I shouldn't say glad relieved is more like it to know that I'm not the only one with these feelings and for the same reasons
Similar situation here. W hasnt mentioned D at all. Seems to have stalled out for the moment, though that might be because I started DBing at right around the same time. W would have been on her way out the door if I hadn't gotten here. Grateful for the support, the resources, people, everything.
I've read a bit of your story and I see similarities and some differences. FWIW, my wife hasn't done a single thing about divorce. Hasn't even spoken the word. Closest she's come is to say she doesn't want to work on the relationship. Her actions say she's done, at least for the moment, and that's what matters. The most important thing (easier said than done) is to do the work on yourself without constantly worrying if it will make her notice and have a change of heart.
I had the exact same instincts as you, but I would say not to go to MC at this point. I did, and the counselor was anti-divorce but I'm not sure was the right fit for us. W went with me the first time, then insisted on going separately and basically treated her sessions as IC. The counselor broached with her having both of us come in again, and she pulled the plug. If the (potential) WAS is not invested, often they treat it as something they can cross off on a checklist. Tried that, didn't work, guess the marriage is doomed. It really takes two people willing to do the work.
My W also hasn’t spoken of D. Actually my real tangible evidence (other than her odd behavior) is fairly limited. Texting a friend about her unhappiness (with a weird comment about documenting something I said). A couple pictures in our cloud account that made it clear she was unhappy (I won’t get into details, it’s not important). The D book that I found, which it’s not clear she has even opened. Then I start with that evidence, and EVERYTHING seems like evidence pointing towards a D. Secretiveness. Lack of affection. Not sharing things with me. Telling me she “didn’t get a text”. She lied about moving a dentist appointment - did she go see a D lawyer for 30 minutes? Who knows? Who cares? I have prepared myself so I am confident if the BD comes... it’s not what I want, it is heart-breaking and April was the worst month of my life. I never thought I would feel so low. I was lucky to be on work travel where I could spend time by myself sorting things out, rather than being a hot emotional mess in front of my 3 kids.
I agree on MC. I posted on my separate thread that if we go back, I want to first speak individually with the MC (we did this before). I want to be clear that I am not interested in MC if my W’s goal is not to stay married.
The limbo feeling is the worst. I feel so certain that the BD is coming in June or July, and there’s nothing I can do. I can work on my behaviors here, which I will need to get through this difficult phase of my life. I feel like those changes are not going to prevent the BD in any way, and they are mostly about me preserving my sanity, and evolving into a happier, healthier person going forward in the next phase of my life. If by some miracle we can reunite and save this M, even better.
