Niall 2: Drifting Apart

[Niall11]

Link to Thread 1: Not Sure Where This Is Going

[Niall11]

Thanks Sandi, just a few responses.

People who hurt, trash, or disrespect me I'm not particularly interested in making nice with.

Oh, I hear you! Have you had to work with someone who would stab you in the back? If you are in public work, you are required to show professional conduct, but co-workers have a way of making your life miserable. Maybe that's similar to how you feel with your W in this current sitch. I certainly don't envy you.

Similar but this is much worse. I have to live with this person and collaborate on raising a child. This is the one person who took a vow to be loyal to me and to love me. So it hurts much worse than a relative stranger at work.

For some women, when their H leave a good paying job to go into self employment (which often means they struggle the first few years), they can resent it. Depending on the woman and how supportive she was about the H's endeavor. I fail to see how this would cause her to suddenly want to be with other women sexually. However, rebellion is rebellion no matter the wrapping paper.

I didn't leave the job voluntarily. In the fallout from the 2008-09-10 recession they closed the entire office and let 40 people go.

W and I had been together nearly a year when we got the news. I had wanted to transition into a less stressful job and we had wanted to move to where we now live (she hoped to go to school here). So her reaction was totally supportive and it really made me feel like she loved me, not just my high income. In the back of my mind it was a factor in my decision to propose.

We came here and I interviewed a bunch but it was a very tight market then in my field and nothing came through. An acquaintance hired me out of the blue for a project, the money was decent, and barring any "normal" job turning up we decided I'd go with this. It's been up and down and lately more down because a major client had a heart attack, survived but decided to sell his business to a conglomerate that doesn't need my services. We are not where I (and apparently she) wanted us to be at this point, but we've had a pretty good life until recently when reduced income and D2 expenses have left us with little extra cash.

W's narrative is that she works hard and I'm some kind of lazy bum. Since she started teaching, six years ago, she's (very) slightly ahead on work income, but hers is steady and mine more erratic and involves chasing down people who take their sweet time paying. I also inherited some money (and land, which we sold; she didn't complain when that went to buy her car and pay for her dental work).

All in all, the last 6 years I've contributed more dollars than she has and spent far fewer on myself. The 4 years before that we lived very well and I paid for literally everything while she was unemployed and then in school. Her student loans are far lower than they would be if I hadn't paid for everything during her grad school.

For years W seemed OK with everything and we were a team. Only since D2 was born and we're not where we'd like to be has W suddenly decided that I'm a total loser. And I guess I am for trusting her instead of understanding she'd suck me dry and then ditch me.

I don't think any of this is the reason W finds herself attracted to women. I'm not sure if that was always there but repressed, or what. But I do think the career and money issues are a huge reason why she's down on me. I also think it's unfair and she's in for a rude awakening since she seems to think she'll be more prosperous without me. She won't.

And, btw, in a previous post I suggested she could possibly be using her days out with D2 as an opportunity or excuse to be with OW. I didn't mean she was engaging in sex while her daughter was with her. Just wanted to clarify. I thought for a mother who wasn't happy about having to keep her child when she wanted to go out with her friends......she was suddenly making arrangements to be out all day with D2. Anyway, probably just my suspicious mind.

First of all, The Artist Formerly Known As OW2 has been demoted to "New BFF." Apparently nothing romantic or sexual happening with her.

W goes out plenty without D2 but during her recent vacation week and on weekends she's been planning to take D2 to her social events. I think it's because lately I've been insisting on the calendar and a more equal distribution so I can GAL as well. If she takes D2, she'll be able to go out on "my" days instead of sitting at home with D2.

We are trying to socialize D2, although that plan was not supposed to be taking D2 around a bunch of people I don't even know without me being included at all. Fortunately W is not a drinker, drugs, any of that, so I don't think D2 has been around any dangerous behaviors. W is not that far gone.

But what really has been happening is that she says she plans to take D2 and then, when the time comes, doesn't want to. I think she loves D2 but right now wants to be a teenager and finds having a H and a D2 wildly inconvenient. Childish.

Don't be too critical of your inability to detach yet. With all the emotions swirling around, it's got to be very challenging to lovingly detach. I'll be honest, if my H suddenly started searching out other men to have an A........I wouldn't lovingly detach. But then I probably wouldn't if he were out searching for women, either, b/c that's the difference between you guys with NGS and women who are potential or former WW's. You'll put up with it, and we won't. It's that simple. When my adult daughter busted me, one of the first things she said was, "You know you would not put up with it for one second if it was Daddy and another woman". She was right, and I knew it.......my family knew it.....my H knew it.....everyone who knows the two of us, knew it. It just ain't gonna happen!

I would have walked away from any past relationship ages ago. But I was never married before. I take the vows seriously enough that I want to say I did all I could to save it. The big thing keeping me here is D2. Right now two of my biggest wishes are never to see W again (or not for a long time) and to see D2 as much as possible.

If I had my old job (or a steady one that paid even half) I could stay in our place, tell her to get out. But I can't afford our place by myself and I'm not going to leave D2 for now. Especially since I'm not sure I could get my own place nearby and afford D2's preschool etc. W has no sense of budget or big picture. She just wants to have fun and whatever fallout for me or D2 is not important to her. Which I consider criminal.

I'm not sure, because of money, etc., that I'm going to be OK. I'm extremely concerned for myself and my future relationship with D2. Very worried and unhappy lately and I'm not good at faking otherwise. I think the vibe I'm giving off is "pensive," not "confident" or "moving on." I have a lot on my mind these days.

I'm so sorry, Niall. You may have to find another job, if your business doesn't improve, but you will make it. You have a precious little girl that means everything to you, so I know you are going to make it. (((hugs)))

Thank you!

I'm actively looking for another job but it hasn't been going well around here. The past few years on my own in sort of a niche have made me less appealing to bigger employers, apparently. I need something decent in the next 3 months or so, or I'm most likely moving 5 hours away to stay at my sister's or dad's for free. I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Niall11]

Journal: W's campaign for Mom of the Year still on pace.

Last Friday I was supposed to go to an event where a lot of my friends were performing. But I didn't have time to pick up tickets and it was sold out. Upon hearing I was not going out, W waited 5 nanoseconds before making plans to go dancing with New BFF.

W then went to New BFF's birthday party on Saturday. "1 to 4 PM, bring D2" turned into "1-8 PM, don't bring D2." W wanted to go out with New BFF yet again Saturday night but couldn't because I had plans, and had a 4-hour birthday brunch with New BFF on Sunday. She came home only because I had to chair a meeting at 5 PM, and I learned today that she had her mom come watch D2 so she could have dinner with Original, Adultery-Enabling BFF. I had 3 or 4 commitments this weekend myself, but I think hours spent with our D2 were like: Me 30, W 3.

Yesterday I had D2 home all day with a fever. W got out of work at 2:15 but came home at 5 to use the bathroom before a 5:15 dentist appointment. D2 ran to her and W practically ignored her and ran back out the door. D2 cried for half an hour. I had given W a check for the dentist to be applied half to each of our balances. Hers is hundreds still owed on $6,000 in dental work. Mine is about $150. Very conveniently she "forgot" to tell them about my note on the check and they applied it all to her balance.

After W returned I ran errands. W apparently gave D2 a tablet to watch videos so W could play on her phone and text. Leftovers for dinner, then I put a very sick D2 to bed at 8 PM while W watched TV. Normally on Mondays W leaves around 7:30 for a dance class with New BFF, but some weeks they don't go. At 10 PM D2 woke up screaming. I went to her and discovered W was nowhere to be found, 5 makeup brushes abandoned on the bathroom vanity, hadn't bothered to tell me she was going out. I held D2 for an hour while she screamed for Mommy, gave her a warm bath, and got her back to sleep. W, who gets up at 6 for work, rolled in around midnight.

[Niall11]

Journal:

Little interaction with W.

First Thursday of the month I have a regular meeting. This month it was pushed back a week and W waited half a second before texting New BFF and heading out the door.

Friday I attended, with a friend, a free play at a middle school by a community theater group. A lot of my local friends had cameos and one was in the main cast, so I went to offer support but it turned out to be a really excellent performance. Very pleasant surprise.

I had a super-busy Saturday. I took D2 to a park (sans wife, who was sleeping off all her partying) then attended the funeral of a man I'd gotten to know in town who died suddenly. He was nearly 72 but was full of energy and appeared the picture of health. It was a shock and a reminder that life's too short for a lot of this BS. The service was packed and was beautiful. A couple of hours later I attended a very different event, the 50th anniversary party of a couple we know. It also was packed with many people I know and a very nice time. More on that later.

Sunday errands, a long hike, and I completed my first-ever painting, which I've worked on in drips and drabs since November.

Monday W did her usual dance class with New BFF, Tuesday I had D2 home all day and the weather was glorious. We went to the playground for 2 hours before lunch and she had a long nap. This kid needs to run and play. Thank God for decent weather at last. Tues eve I went with friends to a live music session at a beloved local bar that was closing its doors that very night.

Basically W and I are like two ships that pass for a couple of hours in the late afternoon.

[Niall11]

I realized that W remains a follower. Two incidents made me see this clearly.

First, on Saturday I went to our friends' 50th anniversary party. W had put more dancing with New BFF on the calendar for 9, but then asked me to take D2 to the party or come back early so she could leave by 7. I told her the party started at 5, it would be too crowded for D2, and I planned to be home by 7:30 to put D2 to bed.

She said it was her problem (too right) and she'd figure it out. Then said she didn't need to go to the advance lesson and her thing was at 9 after all. Problem solved. So of course, starting at 7, she was texting me every 10 seconds saying she had to go. I came home at 7:30 as announced, and I never saw her blow out the door faster. The panicked look on her face reminded me of when my impossible boss wanted me there at 6 a.m. and I was running late. It hit me that New BFF, from what I've seen, is very demanding and needy of W's time, and is 100% the boss in that relationship.

Then, Sunday morning:

W: Why did you buy more Pop Tarts?
Me: B/c I like having Pop Tarts sometimes.
W: OK, but I shouldn't eat them.
Me: Then don't eat them. Want me to hide them?
W: It's just that they're so convenient when I'm running late in the mornings, but I haven't worked out in months...

And it hit me like a freight train. She was working out every day, going to rock climbing gyms and obstacle course gyms, and bikram yoga gyms, because Original BFF was a workout fiend and they were inseparable last fall. Without Original BFF driving it, wife doesn't work out. New BFF, a relationship that in my view is way too much way too soon to be healthy, is a dance instructor but hates the gym. So now it's dancing 4 nights a week.

All the times I'd ask W where she wanted to go for dinner and she said, "I don't know, you pick, I picked last time" (she hadn't) came flooding back. She latches on to a person and never, ever wants to disappoint that person. She is not good at telling anyone what she really wants. I know she loves sushi and would suggest a Japanese restaurant, she'd say no because she didn't believe I really wanted to eat that. Then, years later, text Original BFF furiously about how I never "let" her eat sushi. Original BFF, the most biased of shoulders, would respond, "OMG, how selfish of him."

W is, in effect, now punishing me for her own past inability to assert herself or differentiate. But she's repeating the same pattern in her other relationships. Not that W doesn't like the dancing, or didn't like the workouts. But it's still someone else setting the agenda and her tagging along like a puppy dog, and one day she'll realize that and resent it.

Another note: W's parents lived 2,000 miles away when D2 was born. Shortly after moved very close to us. The couple celebrating the 50th anniversary had housed W's parents for 6 weeks when our baby was born. On their own initiative because they knew space was tight at our place. They also organized a surprise baby shower for W with 50 people invited. We got practically everything on the registry that night. So I think it says a lot about W that she never even considered going to their 50th anniversary party. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

[LH19]

N,

Quick observation from your post. Most women want the man to lead.

N: I’m going take you somewhere special tonight. Wear that sexy black dress I like.
W: where are you taking me.
N: you’ll find out

Niall takes her for sushi

[Niall11]

N,

Quick observation from your post. Most women want the man to lead.

N: I’m going take you somewhere special tonight. Wear that sexy black dress I like.
W: where are you taking me.
N: you’ll find out

Niall takes her for sushi

True enough, and I did do that at times. Because of age difference and the dynamic when we got together (she was just out of college, unemployed, broke, in a new place, language barrier, and I was a successful professional) I felt like I took the lead on EVERYTHING. In the back of my mind I had this nagging sense that she'd resent me one day for infantalizing her, and in my way I tried to push her to be more independent and vocal. Apparently I made a mess of it.

[AnotherStander]

And it hit me like a freight train. She was working out every day, going to rock climbing gyms and obstacle course gyms, and bikram yoga gyms, because Original BFF was a workout fiend and they were inseparable last fall. Without Original BFF driving it, wife doesn't work out. New BFF, a relationship that in my view is way too much way too soon to be healthy, is a dance instructor but hates the gym. So now it's dancing 4 nights a week.

All the times I'd ask W where she wanted to go for dinner and she said, "I don't know, you pick, I picked last time" (she hadn't) came flooding back. She latches on to a person and never, ever wants to disappoint that person. She is not good at telling anyone what she really wants. I know she loves sushi and would suggest a Japanese restaurant, she'd say no because she didn't believe I really wanted to eat that. Then, years later, text Original BFF furiously about how I never "let" her eat sushi. Original BFF, the most biased of shoulders, would respond, "OMG, how selfish of him."

I think you're getting too caught up in trying to "understand" your WW. I get it, we all go there but it's a cheeseless tunnel. You will never understand her actions. Try to let go of that need to understand her and what she does and focus on you.

W is, in effect, now punishing me for her own past inability to assert herself or differentiate.

Also try and understand this simple fact- she left you and she can no longer control you/ punish you UNLESS YOU LET HER. You may be living under the same roof but that doesn't mean you can't put a stop to the controlling and punishing. That's exactly what boundaries are all about.

[Wanted1]

And it hit me like a freight train. She was working out every day, going to rock climbing gyms and obstacle course gyms, and bikram yoga gyms, because Original BFF was a workout fiend and they were inseparable last fall. Without Original BFF driving it, wife doesn't work out. New BFF, a relationship that in my view is way too much way too soon to be healthy, is a dance instructor but hates the gym. So now it's dancing 4 nights a week.

All the times I'd ask W where she wanted to go for dinner and she said, "I don't know, you pick, I picked last time" (she hadn't) came flooding back. She latches on to a person and never, ever wants to disappoint that person. She is not good at telling anyone what she really wants. I know she loves sushi and would suggest a Japanese restaurant, she'd say no because she didn't believe I really wanted to eat that. Then, years later, text Original BFF furiously about how I never "let" her eat sushi. Original BFF, the most biased of shoulders, would respond, "OMG, how selfish of him."

W is, in effect, now punishing me for her own past inability to assert herself or differentiate. But she's repeating the same pattern in her other relationships. Not that W doesn't like the dancing, or didn't like the workouts. But it's still someone else setting the agenda and her tagging along like a puppy dog, and one day she'll realize that and resent it.

I dealt with the exact same scenario! My exWW would never make a decision on anything or speak up and voice her opinion. I think I wrote about it in my threads. I would suggest something and give her my thoughts on a subject and she would agree. I can't read minds. If someone agrees with me, I have to assume they actually agree with the subject matter at hand! Come to find out after BD, she now thinks that she never got to "voice" her opinion. Even though I would come talk to her about any decision. (e.g. Me: Would it be alright if I go to Canada bear hunting? Her: Sure, it sounds like a blast). Not sure if its just her rewriting history or if she truly felt like she couldn't voice an opinion. She's tried telling me she always thought it was her job to make me (or any man in her life) happy. I guess she determined that that is my fault in the end. She has always been passionate about running. Constantly training for the next marathon. AP3 is/was really into bike riding. Guess what her new hobby/passion is now?! She still runs, but before she left, she was adding new, upgraded, pedals to her bike and a bunch of other random accessories. She would go on these long, long bike rides all of a sudden. A follower, just like yours.

Like everyone says, its a marathon not a sprint. They need to go through the process and realize it's them not us that create their unhappiness. Eventually, I would think they will open their eyes to the fact that every relationship they enter into after us goes down the same path and they are the common denominator. But, maybe not. The good news is, at that point, we don't have to deal with it anymore!

[Niall11]

I think you're getting too caught up in trying to "understand" your WW. I get it, we all go there but it's a cheeseless tunnel. You will never understand her actions. Try to let go of that need to understand her and what she does and focus on you.

For me achieving some degree of understanding what has happened to my marriage is necessary to begin the process of moving forward. I never will truly understand all of it, I doubt she will either, but I don't know how to move forward without making some sense of something that rocked my entire world.

W is, in effect, now punishing me for her own past inability to assert herself or differentiate.

Also try and understand this simple fact- she left you and she can no longer control you/ punish you UNLESS YOU LET HER. You may be living under the same roof but that doesn't mean you can't put a stop to the controlling and punishing. That's exactly what boundaries are all about.

Understood. But if this plays out to its most likely conclusion, at best I'm splitting time with my daughter. That to me is a very severe punishment. I'm starting to get past the other "punishment" aspects, I am thinking about W, her actions, and her motivations as little as possible. I don't care where she goes or when she comes home, except she's neglecting our D2.

But unilaterally obliterating my family unit -- which everyone here seems to agree she can do -- is a big deal. Even if I'm doing my own thing and she's not "controlling" anything else, thinking about the future date when I don't live with D2 full time is frustrating and maddening.