Taking an interest in his day seems like a good start in warming up towards him, FS. After all, if you are ever going to R, at some stage you will both need to open up about your lives to some extent and start sharing things more. Baby steps, I know you're like me and a distancer so it doesn't come naturally, but if you keep it light and low pressure, good things may flow that way.
Dh and I have been definitely showing more interest in each other's lives the last few months, it's only now I realise how disconnected we really were before because we didn't really show interest in the other person, we sort of paid attention out of the corner of our eyes I think. Although it's not enough for R, it has to be a first step towards it. It comes easier once you decide to trust your H a bit and to not be too guarded. I'm working on that. Yesterday dh said something about 'my road' being closed (the one his flat is on) and part of me tensed up and then the more generous part of me said 'chill out' and we moved on. Trusting someone who has broken your heart is probably the hardest thing in the world though.
Something I've noticed over the past month or so - is that I do ask H more about his work, his day, what's going on with him when I see him. At first he would be very prickly in his responses, but gradually he has started to open up a bit. It isn't great - sometimes he comes to pick up the kids, unloads and complains for a bit, then leaves. But he has started to ask about me and my day too in more recent times.
What I noticed though, is that this is new for me. I know that when we were living together weeks or even months would go by before I'd show much interest in his life or hobbies or interests outside of how they affected me (his availability for time with me, or childcare, etc). I'd only be interested if he was out playing sport because I'd have in mind how tired he would be when he got back and how that tiredness would affect me and how available he would be to me. I talked to him a lot about my own stuff - and he needs a lot more quiet time than I allowed him to have. He was a kind of stand in therapist / punch bag for me a lot of the time. I can admit that now and I am not proud of it, but I think it was totally invisible to me before he moved out.
My 180 is that I try to ask a question or two most times that I see him, and try to be understanding of him offloading and take it as an opportunity to validate. It also helps me to understand (though it does not excuse) why he had the EA - there were clearly needs that were not being met in our M. I try to keep that understanding in mind when I feel angry - as I still do sometimes - about the EA. And when he asks me about how things are with me, I try to answer honestly, but briefly. 180s for a distancer will be totally different, I guess.
I think for the two of us (H and I) there needs to be an adjustment as to how much space we take up in the relationship. As the pursuer I need to quieten down and step back a bit - and hopefully he will either take the chance to step forward, or the relationship will die. It's scary for me and I think terrifying for him too, as the distancer, to have that situational pressure on him to either participate and open up and self-disclose and experience desire for intimacy, or to let me go entirely.
I relate to this so much Alison. I’m a pursuer, and I’ve come to realize that I required more from my H than he was capable of giving in terms of high level communication and chat, and I punished him when he wasn’t able to deliver, because I felt abandoned and unloved. SIGH. In the recent weeks, in an effort to detach, I’ve been making a point not to pursue conversation with him outside of things related to our daughter. I do notice an uptick in his trying to engage with me about work and various random topics. Not engaging/giving short simple responses and not encouraging his attempts at engagement floods me with anxiety. As you said Alison, it’s terrifying for me to leave it to him (super avoidant) to dial up the intimacy/forward momentum of the relationship. But I also realize that he is the only one who can do it. Every time I’ve tried since he moved out, I’ve been rebuffed. I’m always arguing with myself about it; afraid that if I dont encourage his bids for connection that it will discourage him too much. Afraid that if I don’t explicitly invite him back to our marriage that he will never have the guts to ask to come back. But knowing that all of my attempts at inviting him back in explicitly have failed, so to try that again would be foolish. I suppose the answer, once again, is that when and only when I have no expectations can I make bids for connection, and that until then I have to find a way to soothe my anxiety around not being more encouraging in response to his...?
Hope: there is a difference between encouraging his bids and pursuing him! If he is that much of a distancer you SHOULD encourage his bids, because it takes a lot for a distancer to make a bid. So if you spot a bid, encourage him GENTLY, don't smother him, don't go overboard, just respond in a relaxed way. And then make your own bids low key. If the distancer moves towards the pursuer a bit and the pursuer backs off a bit then you can both have a bit more equality in the relationship and doing it gently will make both of you feel safer. Well, that's my take. I'm still learning a lot about how to pursue a bit but not too much, having been a distancer it is hard work for me but gets easier. I find texts easiest of all.
Interesting conversation. Being aware that I am a distancer makes me more conscious of how I behave, not just around my H, but other people too ... whenever I feel threatened or hurt. It is a gut response. But I am working on it.
Journalling
GAL Didn't have the children last night but decided to stay in to watch Game of Thrones (once a geek, always a geek). On the yoga front, I've managed to do Yoga at home twice since my last entry but haven't been to a class yet. Getting the motivation to go at lunch is tough and I didn't go after work (more on that later). I picked up a book yesterday which I started a few weeks ago but didn't finish so the one book a week plan is going well so far. I have also managed to make my bed TWO days in a row - motivation to make a bed is low due to no-one else ever seeing it
There won't be much chance for GAL for a while as I have the children pretty much until next Wednesday. I am taking the girls to Brighton this weekend (long weekend in the UK) as the Brighton Festival is on. I have a girlfriend who lives there and she has invited us to stay with her. I am looking forward to it but not.
I have started to create a profile on a dating site. I haven't finished it yet, and may never finish it.
180 I guess my biggest 180 is trying to not distance without pursuing. It was going well(ish) but backtracked yesterday.
H was watching D9 yesterday. I suggested he stay here Sunday night as he wasn't landing until midnight. This would have been a win for all of us: D9 and H got to sleep in and I didn't have to drive her to the other side of town. would have been asleep when he got in, and he would have been asleep when I left so we didn't even need to see each other. He asked me to give D12 some bus money as he was taking D9 to visit his dad in hospital and may not be back in time to pick her up from school. I said sure, but can you let me know where you'll be in the evening as D12 has my house keys. So far, so friendly. I even left him a note in the morning saying hope you slept well and then outlining what homework D9 had left to do.
I sent a friendly text during the day reminding him D12 had my keys. He responded in kind. Said they slept in and gave a brief outline of his plans for the day (dentist, visit dad, netball training etc). All very friendly.
When I got home there was no-one here and I was locked out. I called D12 and she said they were at his mums for dinner. I reminded her she had my keys and she went "oh". I could hear him in the background saying "tell her to come here and get the keys". When I spoke to him all he said was "the girls wanted to come here instead of netball". I sat in a coffee shop for two hours waiting and seething so I sent him a text asking him to be more considerate in the future, he apologized (one of those "Sorry, it was last minute, the girls wanted to see mum and I didn't think about the keys and you"). This got my goat up - one of my issues was I was always the last thing he thought about - he just assumed I would be fine. Fine with looking after the girls when he went out, fine with paying for things, fine with him being 2-3 hours late home. We all have our triggers. A couple of texts later - not long rambling ones - just blunt from me and defensive/aggressive from him, I ended the exchange with a sarcastic response.
I did apologies later (180 from me). We normally let things ride and pretend it didn't happen. Both generally too proud to say sorry.
Lovingly detached I changed the locks last night. Not sure if this is detaching, but to me it is being more proactive. It is time. I will give him the key to the top lock and tell him to let me know when he is coming round and I will be sure to leave the bottom lock undone. I think that meets the "he has right of access" and I have "right to feel safe in my home". He is still attached in many ways which makes it harder for me. He still feels like he is here and I need to make the space mine. So this is the detaching part.
I guess the loving part of this goes with the 180 to be kinder to him, not for him, but just because it is the right thing to do. I am trying but sometimes I fail. Sometimes when he does not show the same back, I react emotionally by putting the walls up. I need to acknowledge this and slowly bring them back down.
That was pretty poor behaviour from him, no wonder you were angry no matter whether it was a trigger or not. Having said that, it wasn't deliberate but it was inconsiderate and he really should have behaved better by bringing you the keys and apologising for forgetting when you'd reminded him so many times. Maybe D12 should also take some responsibility too! It's progress that you both smoothed things over later though. And you're definitely thinking about the whole distancer dynamic too, I can also see it in my other relationships as well. My best friends are all pursuers! I try my hardest to go against my distancing nature with them as well, now I've noticed it...
From what I've read, being a distancer or a pursuer isn't hard-wired in, like being an extrovert or an introvert is. It's relative and you can be different in different relationships. I know I am intensely private and I distance in most other relationships other than my marriage. What has helped me is allowing myself to be closer to other people - that means I expect less from my H in terms of meeting my emotional needs. Well - at the moment I try to expect nothing from him at all - but in a future R, if there is one, I plan to keep my intimate friendships with women going as that kind of communication is important to me.
FS - that was pretty poor behaviour. I'd be furious too. I think changing the locks the way you have is appropriate - though yes, it sounds like your daughter needs a consequence of some kind too. I know when H has bothered me in some way it's been nearly impossible for me just to take the event in the day, rather than see it as evidence of 'more of the same'. This could just be a lapse - a mistake on his part - or it could be evidence of all kinds of things. I guess you can decide which it is. It's triggered a lot of feelings in you about being taken for granted in the past, and I know you are still feeling taken for granted now - with the way the childcare schedule works, etc.
I'm watching Nate Bargatze - The Tennessee Kid (Netflix stand-up comedian) and I'm snorting with laughter over here. I thought of you and wanted to put it on your radar in case you're looking for something new to watch.
He's super dry observational humor and I'm cracking up.
FS, I am also a distancer. Its something I am working on. I still dont start conversations with my STBXW but I do chat with her now if she wants to talk. I got a couple of new tattoos. Yes I am an inky. She had also gotten one which is part of her GGW. But she wanted to show me and I said it was nice. I showed her mine, she liked one but was surprised at the other lol. A pair of lips on my upper chest. But she said it was nice and we talked about tattoo care and I gave her some after care products I use.
Thats much better than me before. Im trying to get along. No desire for an MR with her but I do want to be a good co-parent. Living in this house with her isnt comfortable for me. I dont feel at home at all anymore. But I see it fit to wait until D is done and I have all my money so I am fully prepared to move out. I still get zero consideration from her when she makes plans unfortunately. Meaning plans with the kids. Im just expected to accept whatever she wants.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I am not a distancer unless I am emotionally vested. Most people would describe me as open and warm. Distancing is my way of handling my insecurity/fear of rejection. When people get too close, I back off. In all other aspects of my life I am fairly confident and self assured. Not sure if that makes sense. Probably not.
The lock thing was just him being absent minded. It was not intentional. What got my goat up was a) he forgot about me AGAIN, and b) the expectation I would drive half an hour out and half an hour back to come get the keys. In any case, the locks are changed now and, no, he was not happy about it. We were in the car with the kids, so he couldn't go off on one, and I said it was because I was locked out ("when were you locked out?") and that I would get him a copy of the keys cut, but I failed to mention I was only giving him one of the two keys. I got some grief about calling an emergency locksmith out (waste of money) but that was about it. He was mostly silent after that.
One last thing ... and this is just to see if I handled it properly.
H came to pick the girls up yesterday morning to take them to school and I asked if he could drop me off at the station (it is on his way). When I went to get in the car, D12 was in the front seat. She has been doing this a lot lately. H looked at me and said, "You'll need to sit in the back". When we got in the car, I said to D12 (in a banterish way) "you took mummy's seat". She said "Why do YOU get to sit in the front?". H smiled. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it so I just joked something back and said "that's ok, it means I get to sit in the back and hold D9's hand".
When I got home last night I spoke to her quietly and said that her behavior was disrespectful. She asked why, and I said that if she got in nanny and granddad's car she wouldn't sit in the front and make nanny sit in the back. I said I knew she didn't do it on purpose, she was just trying to get one on D9 (they argue over who sits in the front in my car) and that I wasn't mad, but I'd like her to not do it again. She took this quietly. But then started to cry. Not crazy tears. Just little ones. I don't want to make her anxiety worse, but I also want her to know that being disrespectful is not on. I can't talk to her dad about it because he will just say I am being ridiculous.
