I'm beginning to understand what you're talking about, the whole stepping back and examining my faults and W's faults (and both have many).
It's hard to see your spouse with the rose colored glasses off. I'm starting to do it now, and it's an eye opener. It's easier (for me) to honestly look at myself and pick out faults to work on. I kinda enjoy that. To be honest, I feel more alive now than anytime I can remember. Truly is "Use the Time Wisely" moment, it IS a gift.
-SoloFlex
Navy Gulf War vet here too.
The Military mindset sometimes helps. It's been awhile but I'm bringing it back into service - discipline your mind. Train yourself to recognize when you are angry, sad, etc and live in it for the moment. Try to figure out where or what caused it, what the trigger was, and if there was a pattern from the past that repeated or reminded you of your emotion.Then let it go.
It takes practice to do this - dont beat yourself up if it doesnt work all the time. It doesnt always succeed even for me. But keep trying.
I have had very few bouts with anger in my R. Really. I have no anger toward my W for whatever reason. It boggles my mind and I've tried to figure out why. I think it is because she respected our original agreement when we first started seeing each other and that is to tell each other if either of us was feeling different.
Granted it was also very painful, and took half a year to drag it out of her but that was because I didnt understand what was going on and she was terrified to tell me, plus she still doesnt know why she feels the way she does. It was FUBAR but the situation was what it was and I cant change what happened.
Going forward, and this is just me - I have no anger because I realize I did and am doing everything I possibly can to make it work. There is peace of mind in that. I cant control what she does, or how she feels. Her emotions have overwhelmed her and it is VERY clear she cant even deal with that, let alone the R.
It's a constant struggle. Good days and bad ones.
Not sure why I wrote all that - hopefully some.of it helps.
Just being introspective this morning and journaling some thoughts and feelings. I am away at work for the week, and at times I miss S1, but it comes and goes. What I am thinking a lot about is social circles, my purpose, worldly things and experiences, being happy, being lonely, and living a balanced life with purpose.
I went and sought out a nice hilltop restaurant last night by myself, without my work colleagues, had a spectacular view, a nice meal, and some decent conversation about life, beer, and places with two of the bar tenders which were a younger man and woman.
I have always known this about myself since I was about 18, from all my prior relationships, that I date, I pursue relationships, and get involved with women because I enjoy the experiences of getting to know someone, and something new. Sometimes the dates are a good fit, sometimes they are not. That's ok though. I have always kept a small handful of friends, and they have wives, lives, and families, and are not much of a extended social circle. I need to expand that more with my interests, involving a good balance of men and women relationships and activities.
I think a lot of us sometimes wind up going through the motions, responsibilities of life, get bogged down, and more importantly, BORED. I guess we all want more experiences don't we? Every time I have lost a relationship, not only was it the relationship, but the experiences, and social circles as well. Women are fortunate and lucky going through a divorce, that they typically have more of an expanded social circle, and support to fill in the gaps of loneliness, purpose and time
Which leads me to my next thoughts. What this is about is feeling satisfied and having contention. I think people leave marriages because they are bored with their lives, because of their expectations they had of the other person didn't turn out to what they thought it would be. Or they feel like they're not living there full purpose in life, and they need to do so outside of the marriage, or break away from the marriage. Where my maturity kicks in, is you can have a ton of wonderful experiences in your life, live a rockstar studded awesome life, having different experiences with different people, doing different things, go traveling possibly abroad, and although it can shape you're life, I know from past experiences, which I have had many of, it can leave you everytime at a present place of feeling "NOW WHAT!?" "WHAT'S NEXT!" WHAT DO I WANT TO DO NEXT!? For the WW I'm sure it's "Who do I want to do next?" Lol....
So? I recognise this in my WAW, and in myself. That we are both looking for different experiences in life apart, to give ourselves, our purpose, and our lives meaning. Here is what I struggle with though. I know im mature enough to realize that these experiences, even though they may shape us, will always be passing, and that contention comes from being satisfied with oneself, being comfortable in our own skin, being secure in who we are and where we are, and having contention connection, and satisfaction in relating to people, and usually having a healthy source of such.
So? I recognise this in my WAW, and in myself. That we are both looking for different experiences in life apart, to give ourselves, our purpose, and our lives meaning. Here is what I struggle with though. I know im mature enough to realize that these experiences, even though they may shape us, will always be passing, and that contention comes from being satisfied with oneself, being comfortable in our own skin, being secure in who we are and where we are, and having contention connection, and satisfaction in relating to people, and usually having a healthy source of such.
Three random thoughts:
1. You are hitting upon MLC themes. Kids, career, the demands of life... it's easy to want to escape. It's easy to get bored and complacent. Even I'm bored in a lot of ways. But I see how life always changes, kids get older, and a strong connection with my W could helps us achieve a happy future. Some couples work through it together and come out stronger. They learn to connect, and support each other. They differentiate themselves and enjoy both individual and married life. They find ways to introduce excitement into a very routine life. They fight for it. Sometimes the demands of life are too overwhelming... one or both partners may not have the skills to work through it. They feel like they are drowning. Communication falters. Blame is assigned. The grass looks greener to one partner. They look at their spouse and start to resent them - resent the lack of growth, the lack of support. Some of it is fair, some is not. It doesn't matter. Divorced life looks like a better option. The spouse that wants to fight for the M has zero control. We come to DB initially with the promise of busting our D, and we stay because it's the only way we can manage this difficult transition in our lives without self-destructing.
2. Contentment with self is the goal. Many LBS (raising my hand meekly) are guilty of not working on this in the past. In that sense this process is a gift. I will be happier regardless of my M or future R's. The LBS has a narrative: "WAS is walking away from a good thing. WAS will not be happy in the future, they will always struggle to find their own happiness. I am changing, I have seen the light, I will be AMOAFWL (or AWOAFWL)." But it's too late, it took the pain of S or D to motivate the LBS to seek change. And it also may be erroneous to believe WAS is incapable of being happy on their own. Maybe we tell ourselves that to feel better.
3. In my case, it would be a lot easier to deal with if my WAS just said: "I feel like I will be happier outside this marriage than in it." It would be a gift for both of us. Instead, my theory is that in order to surmount the hurdle of guilt, my W has to build up a huge stockpile of anger and resentment. I have to have a Personality Disorder. I have to be a scary unpredictable person who can't handle divorce, who can't handle being a single dad. I have to be seen as a little boy who can't take care of himself. I'm going to screw her over financially. She needs to be secretive and sneaky about her plans for her own self-protection. Maybe I'm mind reading some of these things. It doesn't really matter. It is a coping mechanism for her. That way, WAS can live post-D guilt-free. But... I wonder if their future romantic R's will not end in similar fashion, if they haven't learned how to be content on their own. Maybe. Maybe she was capable of being happy herself, but I didn't learn how, and that broke our M. Somehow neither of us was content, and we failed to reconnect. Out of blind loyalty I assumed we could work through it. My W started thinking differently. I guess I understand. If you take kids out of the mix it makes perfect sense. I start thinking about these things, then I realize I need to let go and just focus on myself. The W I once knew is gone.
W just texted me. I have S1 all weekend. W invited me and S1 to beach tomorrow, despite me now pushing D. I was either going to have plans to go hiking with him, or beach. Whatdaya think? Take it or leave it? I really have no interest in spending time with her anymore, unless she's willing to recommit to M. I've made myself clear too many trust issues have been broken, she's not willing to work together on them, so Im done and pushing forward. Made myself clear several times in not playing family anymore, and we are doing everything my way with regards to seperating family affairs. Not accepting any more scraps or breadcrumbs. I'm about to tell her I have plans with S1... Sorry... You think I should give her a shot? Or keep doing what I'm doing until she finally caves? If she ever caves which I highly doubt. It's funny how she invited me to some occasions and not others.
Im an all or nothing kind of guy. That will never change. Either you give me your all (or attempt to try at least.) Or ill take nothing at all and walk away. Put in all your chips, or walk away from the table when it comes to personal R's. None of this $1 chips at a time breadcrumbs crap. I think the beach experience could be fun, but its funny?.. Now im the one that doesn't want to give her "false hope" I kmow I'm mind reading here, but I can only see 2 or 3 reasons for the invite, despite me pushing the D and insisting doing everything separated.
A.) She has no one else to go with, doesn't want to go alone, and conveniently wants to use me to fill that gap. If she had company, she probably wouldn't be asking me. If her only choice is to go alone, she will probably stay home.
B.) She thinks I have no plans/no social life/no friends, because I only have a few good friends and takes pity on me.
C.) She actually wants to hang with me and temp check. (Doubtful but don't GIve a $hit anyway.)
It's so hard not to take everything personal, especially when you're an all or nothing person.
The thing is, they don't have anything to give. Even if they want to (in a moment), they have nothing to give. It's all an act. They are in agony. They are emotionally bankrupt. It's hard not to have pity (and pity is wrong, we still need to see them as people and our counterparts = equals).
If I can get a breadcrumb, I will want to grab it secretly and treasure it. These people have nothing. What amount of effort does it take for them to put out a breadcrumb?
Really makes me think of the old bible story about the rich man giving all kinds of money to the temple and it meaning nothing. Yet the old widow gave her last coin and God thought it was the greatest offering as it was all she had. When will we see that in a moment a breadcrumb is all they had? If we could look in their heart and mind, I wonder if we would be surprised.
Here's a similar one that resembles that which is one of my favorites from Revelations. "But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!"
W invited me and S1 to beach tomorrow, despite me now pushing D. I was either going to have plans to go hiking with him, or beach. Whatdaya think? Take it or leave it?
I think you already answered your own question:
Quote
I really have no interest in spending time with her anymore, unless she's willing to recommit to M. I've made myself clear too many trust issues have been broken, she's not willing to work together on them, so Im done and pushing forward. Made myself clear several times in not playing family anymore, and we are doing everything my way with regards to seperating family affairs. Not accepting any more scraps or breadcrumbs. I'm about to tell her I have plans with S1... Sorry...
You don't want to spend time with her, you don't trust her, you're done and pushing forward. You're not going to play family anymore. Here's my question to you and I am being serious- if all of that is true, then why are you even asking the question? Are you really sure you are done?
Quote
You think I should give her a shot? Or keep doing what I'm doing until she finally caves?
Do things for you and S, not to make her cave or get any other kind of reaction out of her.
That's a big fat NOPE! Told her "Thanks for the invite, but already made plans." I would rather lose her and divorce her, then compromise my principles for this current uncommitted whacked out wishy washy version of her. Life is too short to deal with a person in this state.
What's funny is I have been thinking about the social aspects and dynamics of the entire relationship. In the beginning when she was my GF, she was totally cool with hanging out with my family and friends, but slowly as time progressed into marriage, it became more about always hanging with her friends, constantly talking shop with them, spending all her time doing crafts on couples weekends, always excluding the husbands, it absolutely astonishes me when she BD'd me that she felt I was distant around her friends, did my own thing, etc... (Well yeah duh!!! If I feel like I can contribute something towards a conversation then I absolutely will jump into convo willingly. I am a very sociable and curious person. But I operate by my own rules. But if all you're going to do is talk shop all weekend, which I know nothing about and has nothing to do with me, and do nothing with friends than complain about husbands, then yeah, I'm going to go do my own thing.) Plus even with the husband's there's only so many conversations I can have about smoking weed playing video games and shooting guns. (The guns part I enjoy.) She knows all this but doesn't understand it in her own little view of the world. Also she always felt like she had to "check up" on me in social situations. Why I have no idea? Again her view of appeasement to other people in social situations?.... Me I'm like the mayor at barbeques, holidays, birthday parties, company parties, etc. I go off and talk to people and work the room or the event. I don't feel the need to always stay with one isolated group or clique. Also what she has exaggerated in her mind over the years is maybe once or twice a year I would miss a "her friends" event, because I actually had work to do around the house, and she would Twisted into I would always cancel every occasion. Probably just a bunch of more delusional crap in her mind to justify her leaving?
Coming back to my family and friends. When I wanted to even invite them over my own house, or go out, I would get the excuse of "oh im too tired" or "oh I need my down time" or " "Oh can you take them in the yard? I'd like my space to watch TV" But when its her family and friends, it's okay to invite them over without even telling me, but I still entertain them. But it's mine? I have to do it on my own without her. Nothing but double standard delusional, but polite and accomdating presentation she puts on, still appearing as a two face phony IMO, who constantly accuses me of all the same things she's guilty of. Talk about projection?
Now I'm starting to GAL more, get in contact with old friends and hang with family more. ( I actually might be starting up a band with an old co-worker, where Im the lead singer.) All of sudden she wants to invite me to some places but not to others when it suits her needs. I'm thinking all of her friends and family have plans this weekend, so she's using me as a backup. But I'm the one she doesn't trust? I'm the one she doesn't feel safe with? I'm the one who is emotionally abusive? I'm the one she's leaving for a "better life". But she wants to hang with me when it conveniently suits her.
Whatever...She has her perceptions and I have mine, and mine are all that matters to me now. It doesn't matter anyway because I'm divorcing her. I'm totally fine with it. If someone wants out? Ill help them back their bags..For someone that wants to sell my house out from under me, separate, divide the family, etc... Life is too short to be hemming and hawing over this kind of Mickey Mouse $hit for someone that promise a Lifetime but doesn't want to work at things. It amazes me how people can appear to be so normal and level-headed, but yet crazy, and then accuse you of the one who's crazy because your ideals aren't the same as theirs anymore.
Soloflex I thought good and hard about what you said about them being emotionally bankrupt. I do see it for what it is, there are some givers out there like my wife. Keep giving and giving and giving and when they don't get what they expect in return they stop giving because they're fed up. You're absolutely right that they are emotionally bankrupt and we should try not to pity them but sympathize with it. However I will sympathize with it from my own thoughts in my own personal space in my own time from a distance. Me I don't give to get. I give without expectations, and I know that my supply of giving is limitless and overflowing and will always be there and plentiful. My authentic self will always be my authentic self. If someone doesn't appreciate it, then I have no control over that. But I do get what some are saying around here in certain circumstances about NGS. If it's not within the boundaries of a healthy relationship then yes there needs to be some type of fair exchange to gain back the respect that you deserve.
