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Then when she went to OMs place, she messaged me how our D was doing and asked for her photographs so that she does not miss her.


Divorce is a real b'tch, isn't it? Too bad she didn't seriously consider she'd be losing 50% of her daughter's growing up years.

I agree with Steve. The request was for what your WW wants. She wants to be with OM, but she doesn't want to miss out on what her little girl is doing while she's away. So, you decide if you want to exchange photos. If you want her sending photos to you, then you may need to do likewise. Will it hurt you more to see photos of D2 when she's away from you, or will help you? Make the decision based on what YOU want.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi..

We have not filed for divorce and there is no legal separation as well.
We informally agreed that when she moves, we will have 50/50 custody is our D2.

On photographs, honestly telling you, I can survive without seeing my daughter’s photographs for the days she is away.
Will sharing photographs be beneficial or otherwise? If not sharing is better, then what should I say if she asks for photographs when D is with me?

I want to do what works and what you suggest to be the best strategy.

Thanks again for your valuable inputs.

Last edited by Vik11; 04/25/19 06:02 PM.
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V,

To be honest with you, send her pics don’t send her pics it changes nothing.

Do what you feel is right for you.

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On photographs, honestly telling you, I can survive without seeing my daughter’s photographs for the days she is away.
Will sharing photographs be beneficial or otherwise? If not sharing is better, then what should I say if she asks for photographs when D is with me?


It doesn't matter that it's not a legal separation or divorce. You are still living separately. Will it be beneficial to share photos? Who knows? The only thing I see sharing photos would do is humor her. If you don't share, she's probably going to react badly and accuse you of being punitive, etc. It could lead to other uncomfortable interactions.... b/c the WW wants what she wants. I'm mostly going on the experiences of others in this situation. Some H's have a hard time detaching when the WW is sending photos, On the other hand, some H's want the photos. So whatever works better for YOU. If you decide to share photos, have absolutely zero expectations in it assisting her return to the MR.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Journaling...

WW picked up daughter from daycare and took D to her apartment.
Sent me a picture and video of her playing. I sent thanks after 3 hours.

Wife hasn't provided her new address, so I don't even know where my daughter is today.

My first day alone in the house and it just seems so hollow and empty. The house feels like it doesn't belong to me anymore and I am just in transit place.
Same house where my D used to run all the time, is looking dead. I went in the evening to meet a friend and came back around 8.
To keep myself busy, I started cleaning the house and kept myself busy for another two hours. Had my dinner alone (atleast yesterday, I had my D to share my dinner with).

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(((Vik11))) So sorry you are going through this. I know it is probably of little comfort right now...because I remember feeling the way you are feeling when my H first started taking the children to his place. We had moved into our “forever home” only a year before and it felt big and empty and sad. I just wanted my life back...the future I had planned. But those feelings have faded over time and I have actually begun to appreciate my alone time. I used to spend it feeling sorry for myself and only noticing what was missing. My focus has changed. Now I see it as a chance for me to focus on me and figure out who I am outside of being my kids’ mom. I like the quiet and my time alone or, sometimes, I get out with other people and enjoy that too. I’ve made new friends who I never would have met if I was still together with my ex. I am smiling and laughing again and my children are benefitting from that. I am not living the life I had planned but I am living the life that I have and it’s a good one. You will get there too Vik. It doesn’t seem like it now but time and space really does help to heal and to see things from a new perspective. You won’t always feel the way you do today. In time, you will figure things out. (((HUGS)))

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Originally Posted by Vik11
Journaling...

WW picked up daughter from daycare and took D to her apartment.
Sent me a picture and video of her playing. I sent thanks after 3 hours.

Wife hasn't provided her new address, so I don't even know where my daughter is today.

My first day alone in the house and it just seems so hollow and empty. The house feels like it doesn't belong to me anymore and I am just in transit place.
Same house where my D used to run all the time, is looking dead. I went in the evening to meet a friend and came back around 8.
To keep myself busy, I started cleaning the house and kept myself busy for another two hours. Had my dinner alone (atleast yesterday, I had my D to share my dinner with).



Vik,

I remember the day my exWW left for good and had the kids at her place for the first time very vividly. It was in the beginning of January, so it wasn't that long ago. Your description of how it felt was exactly how I felt. I remember sitting in the chair in my living room and broke down knowing it would never be the same again. Our big, happy home, filled with kids laughing and playing, was eerily silent. Before, I would sometimes get after the kids for being too loud and rambunctious and I remember thinking I would give anything to have that back at the point in time.

I feel for you. I truly do. But, I will say this -- it gets so much better. That night was the only night I broke down about it. I wiped the tears, after awhile, and decided that I was strong enough to get through it and became mindful that God was sending me down a path he knew I could handle. The first week was sorrowful, but after that, I accepted the alone time. I'm going to be honest with you, more than likely you will start to enjoy your alone time. It still doesn't feel right to me to think this much less say it out loud, but I thoroughly enjoy the time I have for myself when I don't have my kids. It's almost the best of both worlds for the lack of a better phrase. I'm always super excited for the days I have them and I'm pretty much just as excited for the days I don't. You make the best of the time you spend with them and then you get that time for yourself as sort of a refresher to recharge without having all of the responsibilities that go along with parenting kids. You get to do what you want, when you want! Like I said, it still feels wrong to say, but it is the truth. It does get better. Stay strong!

Last edited by Wanted1; 04/26/19 02:54 PM.

M: 34 W:34
D:7 D:6 S:3

M: 9.5 years T: 12

OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18
IHS begins
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Wife hasn't provided her new address, so I don't even know where my daughter is today.


Have you checked with your lawyer about her withholding her address? I thought if you had shared custody, each parent had to know where the other one lived, since there has been no domestic violence issues.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks All for your comments.

@Sandi,

She provided me with the address as I had to drop our D at her place. So that is not a problem anymore.

Some Updates and advice needed:

Her mother arrived last FRIDAY and she arrived at my house and called my WW as I was in office. My wife came from her apartment, picked her and left for her apartment.

Today, I receive a call from my MIL and she was crying over phone that her daughter is behaving very badly with her. She said that my WW said mean things to her and disrespected her with a lot of words. She said, she had to sleep on the floor for last two days and her D (my wife) did not even bother about it. My WW asked her to leave her house as soon as possible.
My MIL called me just now and was very very upset and asked me if I could come and pick her up and take her to my place. (She has nowhere else to go as she flew from another country).

I said to her that she should think about it with a calm mind and let me know by evening and if she still feels that she needs to be out of that house, then we can think what to do next. (Honestly, i did not know what else to say).

So, the question is that "Should I bring her to my place"?

Also, my wife called and asked me what I talked to her mother, to which I said that I didn't talk to her about anything related to us and just general stuff. I guess she was worried that I may disclose the affair and that is why she asked me.
I know if I bring my MIL home, this will set my wife in panic mode as she may think about what we are talking about and what I am discussing with her mother (specially about the affair)

As advised earlier, I am not getting involved in their relationship at all and did not talk about anything with my MIL other than general stuff.

Would appreciate if you guys can provide your two cents on how to approach this and what will be the best way forward.

Thanks!

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Updates:

So, as her father asked me to pick her mother, I went and picked her mother and she came to place.
Her mother was in very bad shape and deeply hurt.

As her mom came, I did not speak with MIL about anything related to my relationship, just casual talk.

Now in the evening, my wife panicked and messaged me and asked me to message her about everything I spoke with my MIL ( I guess she was worried that I may talk about the affair and let them know what was going on (which my inlaws are already aware of and haven't told her that they know). Then she asked me later how her mother was doing.
She also called her brother and father next day (which she had not done since BD and said she wanted to talk to them like adults and have a conversation. Suddenly she wanted to talk to everyone in her family.

Two days later, she messaged her mom and told her that she was coming to pick her up and also told me separately that she had rebooked her mother's flight for 12th May (she was initially planned to stay for three months).

She also messaged me that she has again started IC and wants to work on her issues and also said her childhood issues ran much deeper than she thought.
Some of the things she wrote were :
(a) All of you have ruined me (me, her parents). I don't even know who I am anymore
(b) I have zero self worth and zero confidence
(c) Everyone thinks I have lost my mind and I don't care what anyone says, I am old enough to make mistakes and bear the consequences of my actions and live with them.
(d) I changed so much of myself and I don't know what I could have been.

Through this conversation, I just validated and kept my replies short. No R talk or defending myself.

When she asks for photographs of our D for the days D is with me, I do send them, but I don't ask for photos when my D is with her and she sometimes sends me, to which I usually don't reply or just say thanks.
I am doing GAL and have been able to detach better as she has moved out.

Her mom being here has actually caused her to be home and not meet OM as I know she is for most part at her apartment only. I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad in the long run.

For me, I am alone for last three days and have been going for run and gym in the evening. After coming back, reading DR for some time, then make and have my dinner. (Though having it alone is sad as haven't done it ever before the BD frown. ). Sincerely, I am not now craving as much to see her or talk to her as she has moved out. Feels like more of a relief from the daily tension and hurt i was feeling after confronting her.

Also, I wanted to have your inputs on one thing. My wife knows that Divorce is way too big a deal for me and my family. We have had no divorce in my family and mine will be the first one and she is convinced that I will not file it. That would mean that in her mind I will always be a plan B.

What can I do to I turn this around and make sure that I don't make her feel that I am plan B and will be there for her?

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vik what your wife told you above is what mine told me verbatim.
I mean its all there.
She said first she would screw me over and then it was her parents turn. Her against the world. She is getting her revenge. Meanwhile everyone on her sh*tlist are people who have only tried to help her.
Do they not hear the craziness in their voice? I wonder sometimes.

And similar to you I am spending the first few days alone without her in the house (we divorced a few days ago) and I got to be honest. This is sweet. For the first time my TV set will not be stuck on the freakin E channel and Kardashians all day. Finally I will get to see some sci fi films and get into deep thinking about life in the Universe etc. Guy stuff.
Play my guitar again. The posibilities are endless. I am working out more. Sometimes I think we LBS are like prisoners (kind of like DeNiro in Cape Fear) working on our bodies to release all that anger from what we were dealt with.
I was a nerdy beerbelly carrying softy before BD and how I am a lean muscular boots and bomber jacket wearing dude. I met the W the other day at a cafe and I got looks. Some friends gave me compliments.

I took all that work on yourself talk that we hear in this forum serious and I am using this time wisely. I am happy with my new self.

Embrace the change amigo. God has some cool plans for us.


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V,

You can show her with actions, detachment, boundaries and GAL.

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Vik,

You don't have to file papers to D a person. Your W has basically D you with her actions. You D her with yours. Your actions will be way more powerful than any piece of paper.

Don't hold yourself to a piece of paper. Continue to GAL, 180s, and detach. The more you detach, the more your actions will speak louder than a piece of paper being handed to her.

I have a friend who D his WW and now he's still running behind her. They are D on paper, but not in his heart and actions. So his message to her now is so weak, his actions are so weak, all her respect for him is gone. He has to let go and so do you.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Word for word what my ww said to me, but this was not until after we had agreed to try R. After hearing that and that she "needed to work on herself before she tried R" (which we were already working on) I knew it was to much for me. If you are able to work through ti, much props to you and good luck.

I think every H has a WW that says this at one point. Probably due to the chemicals in their brains that are out of whack due to the affair. Would explain why they don't know who they are or what they want...just my opinion though

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WW's drive themselves crazy. They embrace the narcissism. The minute I confirmed my WW's affair and confronted her, I went from H that she just needs space from, to enemy #1 with threats from her to get me fired, ruin my life etc.

I dropped my WW like a bad habit. Once I started focusing on me and my kids, and literally stopped caring what she did, I pulled away so fast and hard she didn't even bounce when she hit the ground.

My WW is still "stunned" by how I act now. I dropped 100lbs and look amazing. I am kicking ass at my life and nothing she does bothers me or interferes. She notices this and just acts lost and stunned around me. She realizes I am done with her.

When you get to where I am at you probably won't even want to have an MR with your WW honestly. I enjoy being a confident, stable, good looking single father. I don't need my WW for anything, especially this version of her.


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S11 D16 D19
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ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018
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Seems like and have followed other threads and see that the script is same in most of the cases. All WWs are saying the same thing, behaving the same.
That leads me to believe that the solution also should be somewhat scripted as welly small variations), so what is being suggested by vets and people who successfully reconciled, should be followed diligently. I was late in that and hope the new members are fast in adopting what is being advised.

Also, some updates:

Daughter exchanges are cold. She does not talk and I don't also start any conversation. We just hand over our D and that is it.
I want to make sure that I am detaching and not being cold.

Also, I know and agree that I should not intervene between her and her parents, but this is what happened on Friday.

Wife messages me in the morning that she would want to drop her mom at my place because there is no internet at her place and her mom needs it, to which I messaged that it is ok.
So she drops her mom and then messages me that she has dropped her and I should not tell her that she has lost her job ( She lost her job in March end), as she has told her mother that she is going to office and meeting till late evening.
Also, told me that she has two interviews and she will be coming late and will pick my MIL from my place.
Both of these things (what she told me and what she told her mom were obviously lies) as she was going to OMs place and stayed there for the whole day till 9 pm.

Well, when I came back from work in the evening, her mom asks me that her daughter(my wife) hasn't gone to office for a week and suddenly she is going on a friday, I think she is lying to me, to which I said I am not sure, but it felt bad to lie to her.
Also, she told me that she is planning to talk to her about the affair as well (as per my wife, her parents don't know about the affair), to which I said " Do what you think is right and I don't want to be a part of it". I know if she confronts my wife, my wife will be angry at me and think I have told her and resent me more frown

How should I handle this and also I don't want to enable her dysfunction by lying to her parents.
I feel like she is running over me by asking me to lie to her parents and allow her to do what she wants to do.

I want to stay away from all of this but am being dragged into this without my intentions to do so . frown

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Vik, she is running over you. I'm glad you see it. You're right to ask for help and try to step away from being in the middle.

I don't know that I have the answer. You could tell your W the same thing you said to your MIL: "I do not wish to be in the middle of your relationship with your mother. It is not fair that you ask me to lie for you and I will not do so. I also am not intending to discuss your business with her - that is between the two of you. This is my stance with both of you. I will not be your go-between".

And you can say that to either person. Just flat-out refuse to discuss ANYTHING with EITHER of them. Find some current events to discuss, or the weather. At this point discussing politics or religion is probably safer.

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Vik,

Don't lie for your W. Don't be an apart of her story/lie she's coming up with. She want to lie to her family let her do the lying. If she gets man about being caught or her family finding out, that means she know she is wrong and she should be up front with them and deal with the consequences or stop.

Next time, she ask you to tell her mother or any other person in her family a reason for her doing something, you should say, "If you want your mother/family to know where you are going to be you should tell her/him. If he/she ask me I won't lie, I don't know where you are going to be and that will be my answer, I don't know". You don't owe her anything, and you not need worry about her reaction to whatever the consequences that land her lap.

And here's a little secret, she's going to blame you no matter what happens or how her family finds out.

Stay strong Vik. You are an awesome man.

Onward and forward


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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And similar to you I am spending the first few days alone without her in the house (we divorced a few days ago) and I got to be honest. This is sweet. For the first time my TV set will not be stuck on the freakin E channel and Kardashians all day. Finally I will get to see some sci fi films and get into deep thinking about life in the Universe etc. Guy stuff.
Play my guitar again. The posibilities are endless. I am working out more. Sometimes I think we LBS are like prisoners (kind of like DeNiro in Cape Fear) working on our bodies to release all that anger from what we were dealt with.
I was a nerdy beerbelly carrying softy before BD and how I am a lean muscular boots and bomber jacket wearing dude. I met the W the other day at a cafe and I got looks. Some friends gave me compliments.


Good stuff! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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Sandi, alot of this thanks to you and other vets here.

Your description of the mindset of the WW gave us all a glimpse into their thought process.

I would wake up each morning for the last few months and read your 37 rules.

I cant recall whose post it was, but someone mentioned you should be writing a book along with people like AnotherStander, Steve85, Ready2Change etc. The material is all here, scattered in other posts.

I really believe it would be a hit, and it would save people's lives.


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Originally Posted by joejoe1
Vik,

Don't lie for your W. Don't be an apart of her story/lie she's coming up with. She want to lie to her family let her do the lying. If she gets man about being caught or her family finding out, that means she know she is wrong and she should be up front with them and deal with the consequences or stop.


^^^THIS YES AND AMEN!!!!^^^

Quote
And here's a little secret, she's going to blame you no matter what happens or how her family finds out.


Yup.

Vik, she's off the rails. Quit thinking in terms of how your actions are going to affect her and what her reactions are going to be, because she is going to make the worst of every situation regardless of what you say or do. YOU live for YOU and leave her to deal with her mess. Next time she asks you to lie for her or cover her lies then tell her "No W, I will not be complicit in the web of lies you are choosing to live. I will not discuss our situation with your family but if they ask me questions then I will be truthful in my responses."


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by joejoe1
Don't lie for your W. Don't be an apart of her story/lie she's coming up with. She want to lie to her family let her do the lying. If she gets man about being caught or her family finding out, that means she know she is wrong and she should be up front with them and deal with the consequences or stop.

Next time, she ask you to tell her mother or any other person in her family a reason for her doing something, you should say, "If you want your mother/family to know where you are going to be you should tell her/him. If he/she ask me I won't lie, I don't know where you are going to be and that will be my answer, I don't know". You don't owe her anything, and you not need worry about her reaction to whatever the consequences that land her lap.

And here's a little secret, she's going to blame you no matter what happens or how her family finds out.


100%.

I don't believe my W is in an active affair (could be wrong but that's the latest info), but she's basically ignoring our D2 and going out with a friend or two 4 or 5 nights a week. Her parents used to live 2,000 miles away but moved here after our D2 was born and live about 10 mins from us.

One night recently wife was out (she came home about 3 am when she gets up at 6 for work). Around midnight MIL called me. Very unusual. They never call late. She said they needed to work out arrangements for the next day and W wasn't answering her phone. Could I put her on the phone? "She's not here right now. No, I don't know where she is." MIL was shocked that W was out past midnight on a Monday and that she hadn't told me where she was going. They have no clue W has checked out of the marriage. If only she knew, W has been out late multiple nights a week for months.

Next day MIL gave W grief for being out late and W was miffed at me. I said, "Why are you mad at me? You're the one who didn't answer your mom's calls for six hours?" She said I could have told them she was feeling sick and went to bed early. Or that she went to a movie. (Apparently less objectionable than being in a nightclub every day.) I told her, "I'm not going to lie for you."

W is in for a rude awakening when I'm gone. She thinks her parents will watch D2 while she continues to go out. If she tries that they'll read her the riot act. They're very family-oriented people who NEVER go out late.

Last edited by Niall11; 05/07/19 01:34 PM.

M 44, W 32
T 10, M 8
D 2
Oct '18: Fantasy affair with OW1 (yes, W)
Feb '19: Inseparable from new lesbian BFF
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Journaling:

As wife treated her mother so bad for last few days, WW re-booked her flight and sent her back to home country yesterday and told her that she will call cops if she does not leave.( She was planned to leave in July). My MIL asked me to drop her to airport and was crying throughout the travel to the airport. She asked me to stay strong and was telling me that she hopes her daughter comes to her senses soon.I just validated her feelings as well and said let us hope she does.

So my wife is now back alone in her apartment. Also, she mentioned that she will be travelling for her job for whole next week, so D will be with me entire week. Happy that D will be with me whole week, but feeling sad as well as she will be asking for her mom throughout the week and won't see her. Also, not sure if this trip is business or vacation time with AP.

The only contact me and WW have is through text regarding our D and typically she messages. For information messages, I do not reply and for others, short replies like yes, no and ok etc.

When we exchange daughter, we don't talk at all and they seem to be very cold. She comes out of her apartment smiling (showing that she is happy to see her D) and I feel as if she is showing me that her life is all sorted and good now. I am not sure if I am doing it right by not talking at all (atleast i don't want to show coldness as per Sandi's rules)

I know detaching would mean that it shouldn't matter to me, but it is difficult. Just venting out here.

As tomorrow is mother's day and D's day with me, should I message WW and ask if she would like to have D with her for some time tomorrow?
Also, should I do anything else regarding Mothers day? Like creating a card from our Ds side and giving WW that?


Would be looking for advice as always and thanks in advance for the words of wisdom you all provide.
Hope I was here sooner.


Last edited by Vik11; 05/11/19 10:58 PM.
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V,

It’s all right to give her a card and a gift from your daughter just don’t have any expectations that it changes anything. Most likely she will do the same for Fathers Day.

As far as exchanges just say high and be as upbeat as possible. It’s will get easier down the road.

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Vik, You seem to be on the right path and asking the right questions of the board. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm sorry to hear about you MIL and what she's going through. It sounds like she is also in a great deal of pain over her daughter's behavior. It's not your job to fix that, but I feel you are sensitive to it. I feel badly for her mom. Aside from a spouse I think mothers and fathers experience just as much pain when their child goes "off the rails" in situations like this. I'm sure she is in agony with worry.

I'm sorry for your pain as well. Just know that you are doing well, and seem to be making good decisions. Keep going. You got this.

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Update on what has been happening:

So, after MIL was sent back in early May, my wife told me that I may have to keep our daughter for that week as she has some job interviews stuff for which she has to go to another city for a week. To which I agreed. I am not sure if she went out of town or was with the AP for that week (most likely with AP), but it was a good week with my daughter.(Though I felt bad that being with AP was more important than being with Daughter.)
Then she asked me later that week if we she could have D with her for another day(which was my day) as she did not spend time with D that week, to which I again agreed.

I am not sure agreeing to her requests like this is ok or not. ( Just to mention that I had no prior engagements, so no real reason to deny and would love to spend as much time with D as possible). But want to know if this approach is fine and don't want to enable the affair.
Also, as I also travel for business, I may need her to keep D with her during those days (So that is give and take we may have to agree on). The only difference being, I actually have to travel for business and she lies and spends time with AP.

Another message came just two days back that she may have to travel for 2-3 weeks again but not sure when and wants me to have D during those weeks. I did not reply to that message at all as it was information message and did not need a reply (though I could have said ok or thanks for letting me know")

Communication:
She usually messages me asking How D is doing and if she is fine health wise when D is with me and I simply reply "She is fine". that is it.
Occasionally sends me pics of D when she is with her, though she stopped asking for D's pics when she is with me, which she did earlier.
For other messages like "Our D likes this new book/food and you can get the same for her if you would like", I do not reply back at all (Though I could say "OK...Thanks"). Is this approach fine? I feel I come across being cold.
Why I ask that is because her complaint was she felt unimportant and by being like this, I don't want to send the same message again. (That was needed to be my 180)
Not sure, so would love to have feedback from the vets.

Other than that, there is no communication between us. Only stuff related to D and mostly she initiates the conversation and my replies are short and precise and that too where there are questions, not for messages that have information.
Also, feels like how will she notice my changes if we have zero communication other than D stuff. Doesn't worry me but I think of it sometimes.
There have been no interactions where she shared something other than D stuff.

Detachment:

Finally I feel a little at peace. After she left for her apartment, there is a relief. I don't feel the need to know where she is, what she is doing, how will she react if I do this or that. The home was a tense place when we were together after BD and now its not that sinking feeling to open the main door.
Doesn't bother me when she lies.
On weekend, when I go to pick my daughter, I have no hard feelings, I say hi and then play with my D (I pick her from her apartment parking) and am happy to see her and usually plan something with my D and we both have a great time.
When alone at home, I enjoy making nice food for myself. Have started guitar lessons (which I wanted to do for a long time) and enjoying my golf.

I feel that detachment has also helped me focus on other things that are important.

Also, want to thanks all the members here who are supporting and providing their guidance through this rough time.

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So welcome detachment Vik. Keep doing what works. Keep GAL and working on yourself.

Just go on with your scheduled time with your D. If W asks you to take D some more days just do as you want. Advise is given about having time for your own GAL. You are not a babysitter. W needs to take care of D too and not freely come and go as she pleases. She needs to have another wake up call like when her mother came. Some reality check.

How’s GAL going?

Stand strong for yourself Vik. Keep DB!


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Thanks Neffer for your words.

GAL is going good and I feel a lot detached now. In my heart I don't feel the need to know what she is doing, where she is, what her reaction to my actions will be (obviously the ones that are to protect myself or our D).

I have gone dark. I do not initiate any conversation. We only communicate through messages and she is the one who initiates and my replies are short and concise and to the point. When D exchange happens, just a simple "Hi" and that is it.

I am just struggling to make sure that I am not cold and just detached and always feel like I may be coming as cold.I do not absolutely start any conversation, don't reply to information messages, and don't reply promptly.

Looks like we have already moved on from our marriage and are actually living a divorced life. Sometimes things happen and I want to share it with my companion and I have none and she is enjoying her life and living her fantasy.
I know it should not matter, but there are days when I feel lonely (no matter how much GAL I do, work on myself).

Need suggestion on this from all the vets here:

So she messages me today that she has some client meetings in another city that have been scheduled weirdly on 21st and 24th June, which is Friday and Monday and she will have to be out during the weekend as well.So, she asked me if I could keep our D during the weekend.
I know that is not the case and it is to go for a weekend getaway with the OM. The thing that affects me is not that she will be with OM, but it just makes me feel sad that she is constantly lying and thinking I am a fool not to understand all this (Well I have also been working in corporate for last 13 years).

Honestly this gives me an opportunity to be with my D more, but wonder just how can these people change so much that their own kids are not a priority anymore (This is the same girl who was so possessive about her D that it lead to fights between us) . I know she has issues with me but neglecting kids is what I just don't understand.

In my heart, even after knowing that she is lying, I want to say yes and have my D with me and give her as much love as possible.

I am planning to write that " Sure, i will keep her D and hope your meeting go fine"

Would appreciate your feedback or suggestions as I want to do what works and not what I want.

Thanks as always for all your support and guidance.

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Even simpler, "Sure I will take daughter". You know she's lying about the meeting, why wish her well? Less words are better than more.


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You the option of two words. Either "Yes" or "No". You don't need to add anything to those statements.

You know she's lying and she thinks you don't know! What type of message is that sending? To me it sends a form of acceptance. Have you accepted her relationship with the OM?

If not you owe it to her and yourself to inform her of such!


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Thanks Ovr and Joe for your comments.

Well, I have already confronted her and she moved out late April'2019. So, she knows that I know of the OM.
Don't know why she keeps lying and making excuses. Feels more cheated than the actual affair.
I had told her during confrontation that I know of the affair and not ready to live in an open marriage. She had planned to move out and she did in April. During initial days after BD, she had mentioned that she wanted to move out because she wanted to gain her self confidence and didn't want to live in the hose she had bad memories in and hated being with me.
Later I discovered that it was not just about that but more about having a free go at being with the OM with no restrictions.

Should I be telling her that I will keep our D and I know what actually she is going to do during that weekend instead of the meeting she is telling me about?
What is that going to get me? She knows I know about the OM and this may prove that I am not over her and still want to control the situation, which I honestly don't want. I just feel said that this girl who never lied to me for 10 years, now lies to me every day or I should say with every communication she makes with me and that is heart breaking.

I was thinking that I should just message her "Yes, I will keep the daughter."

Thanks!

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If you want to keep your daughter, then that statement of "Yes, I will keep my daughter" is great.

Yeah, you are correct, if you already told her, then what she is doing is no longer your business. Keep moving forward.

If she is lying then that's her problem and her deamon to deal with. If she feels a need to lie then she knows what she is doing is wrong.

Enjoy your time with your baby girl. When or if she tries to gives an explanation in person, I would say, "no need for an explanation". And leave it at that. That is a statement that says, I know you aren't being upfront, but I don't care.

Keep up the great work.


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S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
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Vik,

the further you detach, the less you begin to care about the lies.

My WW lied a lot before it got physical. Once it became a PA, it was a whole new ball game. She left the house 5 nights a week to see the OM, always lying. She started to "stay at her mums" at the weekend - she never admitted about the OM, but towards the end i had gone past caring.

She has him staying over and my 3 girls ( well the elder 2) dont understand it, but its none of my business.. As the vets on this board say, you can only control YOU and what you do smile - some make the most of the time with your D, as children grow up soooo quick.


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Originally Posted by helpme12
the further you detach, the less you begin to care about the lies.


Yes, exactly right. Vik, here's the thing, you have GOT to detach. She wants you to take D for 4 days, there are only two factors you should be thinking about- 1. does this cause you any kind of hardship (IE, you'd have to take unpaid days from work or paid days you had planned to use for something else) and 2. would you like that extra time with D. That is ALL you should consider. WHO CARES what your XW is doing with that time, that should NOT be on your radar. I think you're looking at it like you are enabling her "bad" behavior but you've got to get used to this because now that you are separated she's going to be spending more time with OM or OM2 or 3 etc. and you need to be at peace with that. She is probably lying about it because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings, but whatever the reason it doesn't matter. I wouldn't call her out on it or say anything passive/aggressive like "enjoy your meeting". Like the others said, only a yes or no response is required.


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Thank you AS, Joe and Helpme for your suggestions.

I wrote "Yes, I will keep our D". To which she replied "Thank you".

I know AS that whom she is spending time with should not matter, but it's just that you trusted someone with your life and dreams and what you got was betrayal.It hurts to see that they think their selfishness is above family.
Our D who is just 2 does not understand what is happening and when she does, the pain that I have today will be compounded and my helplessness in not giving my child what she deserved in terms of a complete family like other kids will bite me in the face.
Just venting.

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Originally Posted by Vik11

Our D who is just 2 does not understand what is happening and when she does, the pain that I have today will be compounded and my helplessness in not giving my child what she deserved in terms of a complete family like other kids will bite me in the face.
Just venting.





One of my girls is also 2, and doesnt get it, unlike the older two who understand more. In some ways, its better as this hasnt affected her. What i will say don't focus on what you can no longer give her ( i also never ever saw my family coming apart either ) - Focus on what you can give her . Focus on making the most of the time you have together and give her all your attention. You may only see her for 1/2 time now, so make your focus - QUALITY TIME - not quantity.


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Originally Posted by Vik11
I know AS that whom she is spending time with should not matter, but it's just that you trusted someone with your life and dreams and what you got was betrayal.It hurts to see that they think their selfishness is above family.


I do understand your feelings on that. Eventually I told myself "is that really XW's fault though?" Is it her fault that I put all my eggs in one basket, assumed we would be married for life, planned my entire future around it and even my retirement? No it's not her fault, looking back I was EXTREMELY naive to believe we would walk hand-in-hand into the sunset. Very few relationships end up that way, especially in this day and age.

Quote
Our D who is just 2 does not understand what is happening and when she does, the pain that I have today will be compounded and my helplessness in not giving my child what she deserved in terms of a complete family like other kids will bite me in the face.


Kids these days are very knowledgeable about divorce. They all have friends that have gone through it or are going through it. Most kids expect their parents to go through it too, it's just become that common. Don't worry about what you can't control. Just show your D love and support and she'll be fine.


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Need Suggestion please:

Wife messages today saying "Daughter's birthday is in early August. Need to start planning in case you want to throw a party and invite people".

Now if I throw a party, all people who are going to come know about our situation (not that she is having affair) but we have issues and she had decided to leave the house and leave the marriage. She is not in contact with any of those people now. Does not talk to anyone. I usually go to all the get togethers and parties and sometimes take my daughter along as well. I am in contact with all our friends here in the area.

If the party happens, it will be really awkward as everyone know about our situation and me and my wife do not talk much or I should say not at all other that stuff related to our D.

Not sure how to respond to her message and what will be the right approach.

In my heart, I really don't want to throw any party. I was thinking that we (me and wife) will go out for dinner and that is it.
And next day, I was planning to take two days off and travel with my daughter (Just me and my daughter) to a waterpark resort and enjoy with her.I don't want to be doing anything with my wife where my heart is not.
But again, I want to do what should and needs to be done and not what my emotions ask me to.

So, would appreciate if all the vets can help me with this situation and guide me on what should be the right way to handle this.

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I have been reading your story and it’s very similar to mine, except my wife swears she’s not cheating.

Originally Posted by Vik11
Update on what has been happening:

So, after MIL was sent back in early May, my wife told me that I may have to keep our daughter for that week as she has some job interviews stuff for which she has to go to another city for a week. To which I agreed. I am not sure if she went out of town or was with the AP for that week (most likely with AP), but it was a good week with my daughter.(Though I felt bad that being with AP was more important than being with Daughter.)
Then she asked me later that week if we she could have D with her for another day(which was my day) as she did not spend time with D that week, to which I again agreed.

I am not sure agreeing to her requests like this is ok or not. ( Just to mention that I had no prior engagements, so no real reason to deny and would love to spend as much time with D as possible). But want to know if this approach is fine and don't want to enable the affair.
Also, as I also travel for business, I may need her to keep D with her during those days (So that is give and take we may have to agree on). The only difference being, I actually have to travel for business and she lies and spends time with AP.

Another message came just two days back that she may have to travel for 2-3 weeks again but not sure when and wants me to have D during those weeks. I did not reply to that message at all as it was information message and did not need a reply (though I could have said ok or thanks for letting me know")

Communication:
She usually messages me asking How D is doing and if she is fine health wise when D is with me and I simply reply "She is fine". that is it.
Occasionally sends me pics of D when she is with her, though she stopped asking for D's pics when she is with me, which she did earlier.
For other messages like "Our D likes this new book/food and you can get the same for her if you would like", I do not reply back at all (Though I could say "OK...Thanks"). Is this approach fine? I feel I come across being cold.
Why I ask that is because her complaint was she felt unimportant and by being like this, I don't want to send the same message again. (That was needed to be my 180)
Not sure, so would love to have feedback from the vets.

Other than that, there is no communication between us. Only stuff related to D and mostly she initiates the conversation and my replies are short and precise and that too where there are questions, not for messages that have information.
Also, feels like how will she notice my changes if we have zero communication other than D stuff. Doesn't worry me but I think of it sometimes.
There have been no interactions where she shared something other than D stuff.

Detachment:

Finally I feel a little at peace. After she left for her apartment, there is a relief. I don't feel the need to know where she is, what she is doing, how will she react if I do this or that. The home was a tense place when we were together after BD and now its not that sinking feeling to open the main door.
Doesn't bother me when she lies.
On weekend, when I go to pick my daughter, I have no hard feelings, I say hi and then play with my D (I pick her from her apartment parking) and am happy to see her and usually plan something with my D and we both have a great time.
When alone at home, I enjoy making nice food for myself. Have started guitar lessons (which I wanted to do for a long time) and enjoying my golf.

I feel that detachment has also helped me focus on other things that are important.

Also, want to thanks all the members here who are supporting and providing their guidance through this rough time.





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Originally Posted by Vik11
Wife messages today saying "Daughter's birthday is in early August. Need to start planning in case you want to throw a party and invite people".


maybe something like "I have plans to take D xday-xday to celebrate, but if you would like to have dinner with us on her birthday, we can work something out"

I am not a vet to this forum, but I have been DBing for 2 years. Not always successfully, and have needed 2x4's on detachment more often than not.

From what you said, you know what you want to do, but you are trying to accommodate a WAW. I would say as long as she is having an A, you are not obligated to do anything for her. She might be used to letting you know what you need to do, but right now, you are in control of what you do/don't do (i.e. throw a party etc) if you WANT to go eat with her and your D, do so. If you don't, offer to let her have the birthday evening just the two of them, and then take the 2 days and celebrate just you and D.


Last edited by 97Hope; 06/16/19 02:52 AM.

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Originally Posted by 97Hope
Originally Posted by Vik11
Wife messages today saying "Daughter's birthday is in early August. Need to start planning in case you want to throw a party and invite people".


maybe something like "I have plans to take D xday-xday to celebrate, but if you would like to have dinner with us on her birthday, we can work something out"


Yeah that's along the lines of what I was going to suggest. Michele says it's OK to invite the WAS along in something that you are doing as long as it's clear you are going to do it whether she comes along or not. So it's taboo to invite her on a date, but OK to invite her ALONG for an activity. You mentioned dinner with D and W and that you are planning two days at a waterpark with your D without W. My attitude about stuff like this is let your W know, even if she's not invited. Because if you're taking D away for two days then it's just the polite thing to do to inform her since she's a coparent. So I would suggest saying something like: "I'm not throwing a party, have already made plans to take D to a waterpark for a couple of days. We were going to have a birthday dinner the night before we leave, you are welcome to join us for dinner if you would like."


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^^^^^^^This. No expectations Vik!


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Thank you guys for your suggestions.

Journaling:
Wife had informed me that she has some business meetings out of town this Friday and Monday, so she will be out on weekend as well. So had asked me if I could keep our D for the weekend. I know that this was all lie and trying to have opportunity to spend weekend with OM. Didn't bother much other than how a person for whom D was the most important has changed to an extent that she is willing to lose time with D to be with him. Saddens my heart.
Sometimes I wonder how broken from inside these OMs (in my csitch he is divorced) are as well that they don't realize what they are doing to someone's family and taking mothers away from their kids.
She didn't bother to even ask how D was doing.

She messaged me in the morning that I should take D to playcenter and she can play and have fun there. Not sure what was the need to do that. I just replied saying "Have other plans".
I took my D to state park and had a great time with her. Then took her for bike ride and made her favourite pasta for dinner.
Life is becoming a bit easier but that void of having a companion definitely pops up sometimes. GAL and detachment continues.
Communication is very minimal and just around D.

Seems like that we both (WW and I) are getting used to this new life which I and my D definitely did not want.



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Originally Posted by Vik11

Sometimes I wonder how broken from inside these OMs (in my csitch he is divorced) are as well that they don't realize what they are doing to someone's family and taking mothers away from their kids.


It could be argued that your ex has told this guy a million lies about how unhappy she was / how you were actually over before they met etc ( maybe cohabiting for your D sake etc ) - I suspect a lot of lies were told to make him think he has a catch - an honest and loyal but unhappy lady - or he may not actually care.... More likey that the Sex / new relationship buzz are sending him to happy mode.. He probably hasnt given a 2nd thought to the damage and he probably doesn't care less about your D.. Yes i'm sure he is all happy / nicey nice around her, but in reality, he just wants to get your WW to bed..

This OM is probably oblivious to how your WW is ignoring / pushing your D onto you for their romantic weekends away.. Again, he probably wont care, because he doesnt care about your daughter... Or maybe he should see it, but again his head is in love land and he is igorning the signs.

Off topic, but relevant - I am a very rational and logical kinda guy. When i met my WW i saw some text messages to a engaged / married guy that she should never had sent and go against everything she portraid to be as a person. This was 3 months in to our relationship. They bothered me but i looked past them and forgot about them a day ot two later.. I never even raised it with her, even though she had lied.. But why ruin a good thing - good sex, good nights out, good times, butterflys... The characteristics that my WW had ( lies, secrecy, prepared to cheat with a taken guy etc ) were always there.. I just ignored them as my head was in love land.

You cant control it, you cant change it - so just enjoy quality time with your little girl - Make good memories..

And learn from the WW mistakes and become a better father from it...A good example is when you do move on, never do what she has done once your head gets filled with love and butterflys - D should always be number 1. !!! - When you start to date again - If your new partner has kids, - See how she is with them - if she pars them off to their Dad to be with you - RED FLAG - no thanks... find sombody else.. Use what you know to get it right next time


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Thanks Helpme for your comments.
I agree that there were signs of my WW as well, which I should not have ignored, Not that they were big ones, but I am sure that would have helped. I misread my wife for a lot of things she could do.

Anyways, today I got a message from WW that she is panning to buy x,y and z for D's birthday and she didn't know what i was buying for her, so she wanted to let me know.

I see this message as information message, thus I did not reply, though I was thinking that I could have replied "Thanks. I haven't decided yet".
What would be the best approach in this scenario. No message or what I typed above?

I have gone dark and detached to a good extent, but I am still not able to differentiate if I am being cold or being dark and detached.
Her complaints have been that i have been controlling, dominating and emotionally unavailable and thus she has lost self confidence and self esteem (though this comes a lot from her childhood ( I am to blame as well and would not shy away from responsibility). I didn't realize she was carrying such heavy emotional baggage from childhood. So everything I said magnified for her and for me these were regular things/fights that happened between husband and wife).

So my doing 180 would maybe look like being responsive to her thoughts and not ignoring her or being cold.But when I don't reply to messages or reply in one or two words, it feels like I am being cold.(though honestly, nowadays, I don't even feel like replying). So, I am still confused what would be best approach in my case in terms of going dark and detaching vs being cold.

I have another question (Just a thought that came to my mind):

As we say that with time we LBHs get used to being alone and by working on ourselves, we are able to live the new life and start enjoying that.
Isn't it the same for WW as well. She is also having this freedom now, free to be with OM anytime she wants, freedom to make choices that benefit her, freedom from the pain they believe we LBHs have given them (specially after separation)?
Don't they get used to this new life and think this is good life and there is no need to be back to the MR? or is it different for WWs.

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Originally Posted by Vik11
As we say that with time we LBHs get used to being alone and by working on ourselves, we are able to live the new life and start enjoying that.
Isn't it the same for WW as well. She is also having this freedom now, free to be with OM anytime she wants, freedom to make choices that benefit her, freedom from the pain they believe we LBHs have given them (specially after separation)?
Don't they get used to this new life and think this is good life and there is no need to be back to the MR? or is it different for WWs.



Hi Vik, I'm in the same boat as you, and have a lot of the same questions. It's tough, so please know you're not alone in your struggle and that others are rooting for you.

In my case, I'm telling myself that grass isn't always greener. What's new and exciting doesn't stay that way forever, and there's absolutely going to be days where WAW is going to pine for the stability, comfort, and shared life that you two had. My understanding - and it hasn't happened for me, yet - is that these things are more predictable than they seem, and your best shot at reconciliation is to let WAW come to those realizations herself, only to find an improved, confident, and independent man staring back at her.


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Hey vik, you need to stick to DB. Any of those changes you are saying won´t help you at this moment. Go dark and answer kids related questions only.

I was a WWH. There´s no peace on the dark side. There´s a lot of instability. It´s about what brought us there. There´s guilt, sadness, a fantasy world developing from limerence, lies and deception. And you don´t have the calm needed to figure out who you are until the waves of life are over you. Then you get drowned...or you swim toward the coast.

That´s why time is so important. For all of us.

Use your time wisely Cadet says...

Keep DB vik.


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Originally Posted by Vik11
Anyways, today I got a message from WW that she is panning to buy x,y and z for D's birthday and she didn't know what i was buying for her, so she wanted to let me know.

I see this message as information message, thus I did not reply, though I was thinking that I could have replied "Thanks. I haven't decided yet".
What would be the best approach in this scenario. No message or what I typed above?


She's being polite and keeping you informed and it's coparent-related, so definitely send a reply such as "thanks, I'm still shopping for her but will make sure not to get those things." My XW and I do this on every birthday and Christmas to make sure we're not doubling up on gifts.

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I have gone dark and detached to a good extent, but I am still not able to differentiate if I am being cold or being dark and detached.


Going dark does project to the WAS that you're being cold and indifferent. Going dark isn't really a marriage-saving technique, it's meant to help the LBS detach when they are having trouble with that. That said, sometimes it does give the WAS the time and space they need and helps them learn to miss the LBS.

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Her complaints have been that i have been controlling, dominating and emotionally unavailable and thus she has lost self confidence and self esteem (though this comes a lot from her childhood ( I am to blame as well and would not shy away from responsibility). I didn't realize she was carrying such heavy emotional baggage from childhood. So everything I said magnified for her and for me these were regular things/fights that happened between husband and wife).


You're not wrong. A lot of this stuff IS the typical stuff that happens in a marriage. Men as a rule do control and dominate and are emotionally unavailable, that's just being a man. And women are fine with that, right up until they're not. And then they flip a switch and turn into a WAS and all that stuff that was just normal marital conflict that everyone has suddenly become insurmountable issues that supposedly ruined the marriage. So take it with a grain of salt. I have two different friends whose W's returned to them even though they made no changes at all. Both of them took the attitude of "if you don't like me anymore then there is the door". The women left, there was no contact, then both women decided they wanted to come back to the exact same situation they found so intolerable before. Now I'm not saying not to do 180's, it's a good time to make yourself a better person. But I am saying this is really more about the WAS's frame of mind then it is about anything you or I or other LBS's here did.

Quote
Isn't it the same for WW as well. She is also having this freedom now, free to be with OM anytime she wants, freedom to make choices that benefit her, freedom from the pain they believe we LBHs have given them (specially after separation)?
Don't they get used to this new life and think this is good life and there is no need to be back to the MR? or is it different for WWs.


They can, yes. That's why we say there are no guarantees. My XW seems quite content in her new life. There is no OM but she enjoys having her own place and traveling with friends and such. But by the time you get as far past BD as I have you won't care anymore. I am happy for her. She didn't think she was happy in the M and now she is, so good for her. I am happy too so it's all good. But, often they do end up wanting to come back. Only time will tell.


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Thank you all for your support and guidance. I wish I was here earlier and had applied all the techniques earlier just after BD.
Lost a lot of time and made all the text book mistakes for two months till I confronted. ( Now I feel I was not even acting like who I really am. Guess I was in shock and did all the begging, pleading, moving out of MBR and all household chores stuff. If I was me after BD, I would have done exactly what the forum members suggested. NOt sure why I acted like that.)
I so wish all newcomers come here as soon as they hit BD and make use of the best advice they get here.

Wife messaged yesterday that if I was open to idea of taking our D out on her birthday to zoo and have lunch or dinner together with her.
To that I replied "Okay, we can plan that". (Just want my D to have the best of her big day).

I am planning to tell her when we exchange D this week that "I have plans to take D for waterpark for two days to a city nearby and would like to leave early after her birthday celebration with us, so we need to start early that morning and finish by lunch, so that me and D can leave"

Also, we are having no communication other than about our D through texts and no verbal exchanges during D exchange . I am not very keen on being with her for that long in the zoo but would do it for my D. Not sure how should I be during that time and....
Should I initiate any conversation?
If she talks about things, what should I do?
How to deal with awkward silence which I am sure will be there for most part?

Thanks again for all your inputs and looking forward to having your words and guidance.

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Originally Posted by Vik11

Not sure how should I be during that time and....
Should I initiate any conversation?
If she talks about things, what should I do?
How to deal with awkward silence which I am sure will be there for most part?



Would you have a chat about your relationship and what is going on if you went to the zoo with someone that isn't your partner? If not, then just chat about whatever you would chat about with a friend that you went to the zoo with.

If she starts a conversation, you can just listen and validate her feelings. If she starts attacking and blaming, tell her the conversation needs to be over. Be able to walk away if needed.

Fill the awkward silence with conversation with your daughter. Awkward silence being filled is a needy thing. Be pleasant and present, but you don't have to talk all the time just to fill the silence.

You are there to make the day about your daughter. Make it about her. If W joins you and is pleasant, then it is still about your daughter. If she is nasty and leaves, it is still about your daughter. If she wanders off and gets eaten by a tiger, it is still about your daughter. Be the dad you want to be for her.


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Thanks LB55 for your thoughts.
Wife and I discussed our D's birthday (coming Sunday) plan today and I mentioned that as per her suggestion, we can plan the zoo in the morning and then have lunch together and then I would like to take D to a resort for two days.
She was like can we do something on Saturday and I said that I already have some personal plans on Saturday (which I really have).
I finally said that I would like to start early on Sunday and would like to finish by afternoon so that me and D can leave as its around 3 hour drive.

I get a message from her after one hour that "Was I even planning to tell her my plans for my D's birthday or not (Though I am telling her a week in advance). That I built this whole plan without talking to her and how would I feel if she takes D out of town for days without even letting me know.
She mentioned that i knew how important D's birthday was for her and I was talking to her like I am giving her few hours with D on her birthday as charity".
Also wrote that I should put myself in her shoes and think how would I have felt if she pulled out this [censored] on me"

I haven't replied back to the message but I wanted to write back that "I don't want to take her time with D and she can have her for half day that day and rest I can have with D as we are separated and not a family anymore. That being said, she shouldn't be giving me sermons on feelings as she can't even fathom what her affair has made me feel and damage it is causing to all family members and specially our D. But I don't plan to reply or keep it short saying that "she can have her half time with D and this is no charity as she is her mother. If she would like then we can go to the zoo, then me and D can leave a little later in the evening instead of afternoon"

The only thing is that this all again may make her feel that her opinion does not matter and that was one of her complaints that she did not feel valued and felt her opinions did not matter.(Just to mention that throughout our M, I was dominant one and bit of controlling as well). This is a big 180 for me and I believe I have made a huge progres on these but I don't want to portray that I still haven't made any changes and am still the same old guy by making sure things go my way.

As always, would appreciate feedback from vets and all friends here.

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Originally Posted by Nik11
I get a message from her after one hour that "Was I even planning to tell her my plans for my D's birthday or not (Though I am telling her a week in advance). That I built this whole plan without talking to her and how would I feel if she takes D out of town for days without even letting me know.
She mentioned that i knew how important D's birthday was for her and I was talking to her like I am giving her few hours with D on her birthday as charity".
Also wrote that I should put myself in her shoes and think how would I have felt if she pulled out this [censored] on me"

I haven't replied back to the message but I wanted to write back that "I don't want to take her time with D and she can have her for half day that day and rest I can have with D as we are separated and not a family anymore. That being said, she shouldn't be giving me sermons on feelings as she can't even fathom what her affair has made me feel and damage it is causing to all family members and specially our D. But I don't plan to reply or keep it short saying that "she can have her half time with D and this is no charity as she is her mother. If she would like then we can go to the zoo, then me and D can leave a little later in the evening instead of afternoon"


Just listen and validate. "W, I can tell you are upset, I can see why you would feel that way. I will work on trying to communicate plans better with you in the future. In the meantime if you would like some personal time with D on her birthday then I would suggest XYZ." Try to be businesslike. Not sure what your line of business is but when a client comes at me like that then I reply with something cool and professional, I don't engage. Same thing here.


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Thanks AS and LB for your advice and that is what I did.
She mentioned that she wanted our D to have some family time to which I politely said that there is no family, we are co-parents and let us try to do the best for her.
So, on her birthday, she came to drop her. I had gotten cake and gifts for my D and casually asked her if she wanted to come in for cake cutting. She came in and we cut the cake and my D opened the gifts that I had gotten for her.
After that my WW left.
Then me and D left for the resort that I had booked and spent next two (Sun-Tuesday) days there. Had a great time with D and definitely created memories that will stay long with me.
When we were there, WW messages and says that she is planning a vacation in two weeks during working days (no weekend days included) . As I was going to be traveling for business during that week, I messaged that she can plan a week before or after that week as I will be travelling during that week. She said ok.Then she asked for the photographs of D, to which I did not reply as I did not think it was necessary.

Detaching has helped as lot. Don't get bothered abt her messages and lies.

Came back and dropped D at her place. No conversation after that at all.
Day before yesterday she messaged that she was not well and thinks that she will passout and is worried abt D. So wanted me to call her next day around 8 a.m if I don't hear back from her. I wrote "Ok. Hope you feel better". She messaged me next day at 5 am that she was fine. I did not reply back.
Yesterday morning, she messaged that she was very sick and if I could keep D for yesterday night.
As I was in a conference and was going to be free very late, I replied that "That sounds tough. it will not be possible for me to keep her and hope she feels better soon."
She replied "Ok".

Now today she messaged again that she is having a severe infection and may have to go to ER, so wants me to keep D tomorrow and will keep her on Sunday which is my day (Strange that she knows that she will be fine on Sunday already). Also, as she knows that I usually ask her to keep D on Fridays in case I keep her on her day, she messaged that she will not be able to keep her on friday as she has plans with office ppl on Friday.

This all seem to be lies and I am not sure how deceitful she has to become and ignore D to be with OM.
How much can she change to be a person of no values and principles.
THough I would admit that these things have been impacting very less now, its just momentarily that you feel that D is also not important for her.

I am planning to write that "I am sorry to hear about her health. I will keep D tomorrow and she can keep her on Sunday". That is it.

Would appreciate feedback and suggestions on how I should be responding to this Er message.

Thanks again for all who have been supporting me and advising. All these perspectives make things so much clearer.

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