Pre-over-reacting is HILARIOUS! It's very complicated, having a 3 person dance going on isn't it? It's complicated enough having just one other person to dance with! I'm glad you can see your role in this. I reckon leaving food and letting go of the situation when you're away is the perfect thing to do, I bet they both pleasantly surprise you. Having a parenting talk with your H sounds quite controlling and maybe NOT doing it would be a 180?
Yes - I think winding my neck in and seeing what happens might be the better thing to do here. H can be pretty mean and sarcastic and belittling - and I don't like it - but Eldest gives as good as he gets and is pretty awful himself sometimes. H knows precisely what I don't like about his behaviour and want to change, and he knows that as I consider him the adult, I also think it's his duty to go first and improve his side of things without waiting for a change or contrition from Eldest. I try to have some compassion - he's obviously afraid - but I think it's pathetic and he can probably tell that I think it's pathetic even when I keep my mouth shut. But H will keep everyone fed and he will make sure the laundry is done and he has never, ever raised a hand to either of them. So it might be an unpleasant week for Eldest, but then again, he has a part to play in how poor that relationship is too, and he isn't a young child - he's old enough to learn to have some control over himself.
Trust in them both to do the right thing, I'm sure there might be the odd moment but without you there the dynamics will be different. Is this trip away your walking holiday? That sounds wonderful
Yes, off on a walking holiday. The plan is to spend a lot of time alone and outside, and in poor weather and at night, spend a lot of time reading and eating nice things. I want to look inside and see what I want, process some more of this sadness, and also take a proper break from everything. I am tired and I need it. I hope that with me being out of the way there's a change in how things are between the kids and H, but that's not in my control so I will just see what happens there.
Journalling: I am feeling very peaceful today. Sad in some ways, as the more I think of myself, the more I think that what H is offering isn't enough and I need to listen to myself, instead of accepting it then punishing him for it not being enough. I don't want to be looked after, but I do want to be honestly known and to honestly know someone else, and H has no real curiosity about me, or interest in disclosing about himself (the blame and the deflection do a brilliant job of keeping who he really is secret from me). He's free to do that, of course, but I am not sure I want to be in a relationship like that. Perhaps things will change. Perhaps the MC will be a way of us getting to know each other again, if I decide to go. I really want to ask him what is different for him this time, and use his answer to make my decision, but I am not sure that right now is the exact best time to ask. He's ill again, and in the last couple of weeks of this project he just can't have time off. I think I will see him tonight but I plan to just DB and be kind without getting too close. I am starting to wonder if ending the marriage with H for me is not a one time decision I will make after a period of deliberation, but something that happens very slowly as the end result of lots of little decisions concerned with setting healthy boundaries and putting my own and the kids' best interests before his. It's a shame if that is the path I am on, but I am not turning back now.
I did see H tonight. He is sick again, and I tried to make some polite chit-chat and get out some pain killers and stuff for him on the principle that that's what I'd do if a neighbour turned up under the weather. He was very remote - he almost always is - but it just struck me as different this time. Not that he was being different, but that I felt differently about it.
I was chatting to him about a book I'd read and he was grunting and yes, he's tired and ill and ambivalent about lots of things, and stressed, and blah blah blah - but you'd make more effort in polite conversation with a stranger on the bus. And he has been like that for a long time. It's driven me crazy. He has felt for a long time like a locked cupboard I have been banging on the door of. And now I don't feel like banging on the door, I was just trying to be kind and polite and keep things cordial. And I had the weirdest sense that perhaps it isn't that he is with-holding himself from me, and has been all these years, but it's just that there's nothing much there.
He doesn't really have friends or hobbies or interests. We can talk about the kids. He will listen to me chatter on if he is in a good mood, and will roll his eyes and otherwise humiliate me into shutting up if he's not in a good mood. But he doesn't really offer much of himself - I only know his opinions about things when he offers criticism or a complaint about something. He's always been pretty much impossible to buy presents for because I don't really know about anything that gives him pleasure. That could be my short coming as a wife - that will be part of it - but even when I sit and think hard about what it is the man actually likes or enjoys, I couldn't come up with anything. It felt like a bit of an epiphany to me. It is very very hard to be married to a man when there isn't actually much of a man there to be married to.
Things have been peaceful between us these past couple of weeks because I've been much less interested in getting behind that cupboard door. He sends a faintly affectionate text message most nights before he goes to sleep, and he seems to like me listen to him complain about his work and his health and how hard things are for him at the moment when he comes to see the kids. He is making a bit more effort with the kids and I do appreciate that for their sake. He will ask my how my day went or what I've been up to, but it's like the lights are on but nobody is actually home. It's a bit perfunctory on both our parts. I validate or stay silent, depending on my emotional resources.
This is strange and sad in lots of ways. I don't feel angry but I do feel tired. I have been ambivalent about my marriage and my feelings towards this man for such a long time. I am ready to move into something else now - a commitment to repairing or ending the relationship. I want to be on some solid ground and I don't think hanging on and hoping he turns into someone I can have a happy marriage with is what I want to do. I think I am on the brink of letting him go entirely. If he wants to keep me, he is going to have to step up and do something and do it fast and I am pretty sure that isn't going to happen - he isn't capable of it. There's nothing at all I am able or willing to do that would make him capable of it. The last time we spoke about divorce was back in February. He said he didn't have time to deal with it. He doesn't really seem to have the energy or interest or desire to deal with anything at all in his life, and work is a nice place for him to hide. But I'm more than capable of taking things forward in that way myself, if I want to.
Patience Alison, patience. It's great that you're detaching, really great. But just for goodness sakes let the man finish this work thing of his and recover from it before you go Ding him, ok? You have promised him and yourself that much. Just let the limbo lie a little longer. Don't react from emotion, even if it's a lack of emotion.
Yes, I'm not in a mad rush. I'm just thinking that there's more to this than meets the eye. He is sick and exhausted and I feel sorry for him - I really do. But even if he returns to the way he was functioning prior to this project, I still don't want it. And if the change I need to be happy in the relationship is so radical as to alter his character, then perhaps that's a kind of emotional violence. I can accept him for who is his, detach and let go of my wish for him to be different. I can accept that in a few months once he's recovered he might well participate in life again - maybe - but I am not sure we're suited to each other any more.
I will be patient and where I can be kind, I will, and where I can't, I will just be kind to myself. I am spending today cooking seven evening meals for the freezer so he doesn't have to think about that while I am away. He is more than capable of cooking, but he's also exhausted and I like cooking and have a quiet day today so it's no skin off my nose.
I read your posts with interest because I can see my own thoughts a few months ago echoed eloquently within them.
You, like I, have peeled back the layers of our M to find it's a bit rotten / lacking underneath. This is why the vets tell us to give it time. To see the truth and assess the reality once the drama ha died down and the adrenalin isn't fuelling our thoughts and actions.
It was relatively easy for me because once I told him I wasn't taking part in his 3 way drama any longer, he ran for the hills. Absence helped with the clarity.
I agree with Dilly - don't rush into anything, don't force it.
I wouldn't have petitioned for D if I didn't have to protect myself from some very reckless financial shenanigans. I would have just continued to crack on with my life, married or not.
Just keep processing your thoughts and wishes and continue to separate those from his actions.
You're doing good!!
One of my kids said that he found it really hard when he met up with his Dad for a quick drink as Dad didn't have anything interesting to say and then reflected that the usual family dynamic had been me interacting with the boys and Dad sitting on the periphery ie 'one dimensional' Of course Hs version is that I was too dominant and he went along with whatever I decided. One man's submission is another man's boring!!
You guys talk about things not being two dimensional and I would agree. Each one of our situations are complex and have many dimensions. In fact, if you read other threads here most of them include multiple hardships before and after BD, including infidelity, lies, difficulty with children, financial strain, addiction, etc, etc ... So please do not confuse my word choices of "abuser" and "victim" to mean that your situation is somehow two dimensional or simple. Quite the contrary. I still reserve my position that your H's behavior is abuse and should never be excused, even if you believe you have provoked it. Abuse is never okay and the victim of the abuse is never to blame. Sure, we teach others how to treat us and that we will allow it, but that does not excuse it either. And, some people really will not mistreat others in this way, even when life gets rough or it is provoked.
I have read 100s of posters here and i have read yours. We often look for similarities between our sitches because it makes us more comfortable and we feel we can relate to one another. There are however as many differences as there are similarities, some obvious some not. I mean, it's not as if we ever see the entire story 100%. If any of our spouses posted, they would tell a different side. All I have to go by is what I read here. Your words describing your H trouble me and I worry for you.
And I do think that some behaviors are worse than others. The behaviors that you describe -- name calling, sarcasm, the way he speaks to your son, belittling, withholding affection as a form of punishment, an incident of physical violence -- are all abuse. I am using the word abuse because I find it extreme and something that by simply using "techniques" highlighted here, will not fix it. Abusive people must do a lot of very hard work on their own to overcome this, and their first step is understanding that they have a problem.
My H was a real jerk. He had an A with my friend and left our home for awhile. It was absolutely a horrific time. But he was not abusive. Even with the constant turmoil, conflict and stress, he never did or said things that were cruel or abusive. He did not do or say any of the behaviors that you have been describing your H does. So I do think it's important to understand that even if we are all going through the same struggles, there are also differences. We owe it to each other to be honest here and not just be friendly and validate. That doesn't help us make good decisions.
It is up to you if you take your H back or not. Everyone here will support you and is pro-M. I just think at the very least you should give it several years and require that he really work on himself and make some serious changes. He should not be able to go on acting this way and harming others. If he will not change for himself or his M, he at least should for your kids' sake.
Sorry to be blunt. I left my abuser in my 20s. He went on and had the exact same drama with the next woman. I did not. You do not have to put up with this cr-p anymore.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I do think you're right - his behaviour was abusive and at times continues to be so. But we have been together 14 years and the behaviour I'm describing really only happened in the last couple of years. I've thought about it a lot and I am sure of that. I think it is related to his increased work stress and the way I react needily when he withdraws from me because of his stress. None of which excuses things - not at all - but it does mean I have some faith in his capacity to change these behaviours. I want to see him acknowledge they were wrong and work to change them rather than blame them on me or his working circumstances, and as that hasn't happened, there's no chance I would live with him again. Even very early on in our separation I noticed how much I enjoyed the break from the relentless negativity and moaning and criticism and nitpicking and how much the kids and I have flourished in the absence of that. I am not putting myself and them back into that environment for anything.
What perhaps goes back much further than the last couple of years is his underlying negativity and lack of interest in the world. I don't know if that's depression, or selfishness, or just the way he is. I think I was like that too - very negative and closed off. This separation and my therapy (and I don't think it is any co-incidence I got into that about 2 years ago too) has helped me to release a lot of baggage and start to enjoy the world and my life again. To really take care of myself and to feel gratitude for my life. To enjoy my friends and start to be a supportive person to my friends rather than just the moaning person with emotional problems. I've changed, and I am trying to encourage that perspective in the kids, so when he turns up and sits at the table whining and moaning and glowering and criticising, I think we all breathe a bit of a sigh of relief when he leaves. I do feel pity for him at the moment. And that's hardly a basis for a relationship either.
I don't need a D in that he's not financially irresponsible and I could take on all bills and support the kids totally fine on my single wage from tomorrow, if needed. The mortgage is coming up for renewal in a couple of months and I think we will need to have a discussion then about what to do with the house. If we're not going to start MC with the view to exploring an R then I want a more regular arrangement with contact with the kids, him seeing them in his own place, and not treating my home like his home when he is here. That might involve a change to our financial arrangements. I can wait until he's done this project and recovered before initiating a conversation on that, and I will decide whether or not I want to go to MC in the next couple of weeks too.
I need to think about myself first. The fact is, I have no idea what reflection or work he's done, or what he currently believes about our R and his own behaviour and my behaviour. I know he wants to repair our relationship, and I can't believe he wants things to just go back to the way they were - he must have been unhappy too - but I don't know what changes he wants to see and what he envisages a future looking like. I'd like to know those things and perhaps MC is the place to find them out. I also want to be able to tell him some things that fear of his reaction has prevented me from saying. I need him to really acknowledge and understand the effect his behaviour has had on me and the children - to really get it - and I don't know if I need to wait for that to sink in before we go to MC or if MC is the place where I will tell him that and the therapist will help him to hear it.
I have a busy weekend planned with loads of GAL with the kids - I am looking forward to it. Then leaving for my week away on Monday. I am not sure I will be able to update next week, though I am sure I will be doing lots of thinking and reflecting in my journal and it will do me good. I can't wait!
