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P_Jam Offline OP
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Had a really good couple of days. I finally feel like I'm making some progress in regards to detachment. Clearly I still have a long ways to go, but right now progress feels good.

Some golf on Wednesday then came home and had an epiphany... "I can do anything I want!". cleaned the house from top to bottom (probably cause WW coming the next day, but I'm also a very tidy person) Turned the music up loud and stayed up late continuing to organize and clean the house and make it 'mine'. Felt really good!

Went to MRI with WW a couple of uncomfortable silences but not much. There were zero relationship talks - she did ask me what I did with the pictures - (since there isn't a single one on the lower level of the house with her in it -kids didn't even notice - but she did). I just said: "I put them away". My WW is very clean too, so she had to notice the house. It was spotless and re-organized, pantry, kids rooms/toys, etc. It felt good to be able to show that "I got this" with or without her. After MRI S9 was still in school which is very close to MY house. S5 from MRI fell back asleep on ride home. So I suggested we pick up lunch to go, get him into his bed (at my house) and she can then wait around for S9 to get out of school before taking them back to apartment. Had a quick bite with her in the dining room, talked kids, then I excused myself to go do some work in the office. I Worked for 2hrs without any contact with her. She napped on the couch until S5 woke up. He wanted to play ball so I played catch in the back yard (while she watched through the window). S9 came home from school and as they prepared to leave both kids wanted to stay at my house (this makes me feel good) but I know the kids transition is important/critical so I did my part in telling them how exciting the apartment is and how much fun they will have spending time with their mom. As much as it can set me back to have her around, it does feel good to be able to continue to show my 180's in person and be the best father possible right in front of her.

Funny thing though... I did agree to take the kids tonight since they have football early Saturday and she has to work Saturday. She says... "Oh, I forgot it's my turn to bring snacks for the football team. I guess I'll put that together tomorrow and bring them over to you after work tomorrw and then I can spend some time with the kids since I won't be able to have them Friday night". I said, um.. ok, sure. Not sure how much time she is planning but very interesting how she just invited herself over to have a little more time with the kids. I think I'm going to take the kids to a bingo night at their school. Just something to do and if she joins us - fine. But better to have an event for the kids as well as not let her just hang at the house and cake eat.

Overall, just really happy that I'm finding some excitement in this time and space for myself. I have really used the time well to work through some of the emotions as well as figure out what I want (at least as far as the house is concerned). Have an event with a group of friends for Saturday night. GAL is going well. I'm almost too busy.. since she has moved out she has only had the kids 4 nights and so far 2 of those I saw my kids during the day (MRI, and then tonight they are at my house). So I have yet to go anywhere near 5 days without the kids. As this time/space grows I'm feeling confident I will learn to enjoy it and use it wisely. With all the things I have placed on my to-do list now, I'm looking forward to actually getting 5 days in a row to myself.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

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That all sounds great P! Nicely done all around, just keep all of that up!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Feb 2019
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I am beginning to dislike the cake eat phrase . I jammed plenty of cake down my Mrs throat and she loved it and made me the obvious choice against anyone else . Do what works , being a great father is attractive, being positive, handling things well , being happy , improving yourself and enjoying the ride . What’s not to like?

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P_Jam Offline OP
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Try Hard,
Can you please elaborate on your above statement? Are you saying that you DID allow you WW to cake eat? And it helped? I'm very curious as I have had recent conversation with WW that I will detail below in another post. But I really want to know your perspective on comments above.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
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P_Jam Offline OP
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Posts: 119
Been away from the board for a few days. Update on sitch...

Background:
1. IC says that I need to be careful as coming off to WW as if I'm "completely done". He's concerned that she will take this as more of the same (since BD issue is = neglect) and provide her more reason to just move on. Also how can you rebuild attraction if always distant.

2. WW has always been friendly through the entire process face to face, with kids and $ settlement, as well as parenting plan. Still a lying cheater behind my back, but she has not portrayed a lot of the rude/mean characteristics of many other WW ive read about. <-- I know some will say this doesn't matter. But for me it's 'concerning' because I either let her have a little 'cake' or I come off as the rude/mean one.

3. WW is girls gone wild. No specific OM that she is 'in-love' with. Multiple EA and couple of PA

Sitch...
The night I took the kids for her (on her night) to get them to football the next day (because she had to work). S9 tells me that WW would not let him call me the night before. I questioned him multiple times to try and make sure what I was hearing was correct. Based on multiple answers it seemed that it might have been the case (just as he stated it). I was flaming made and texted WW: "S9 says that you would not let him call me last night, we agreed this would NEVER happen. Pathetic".

[b][/b] Now, in hindsight I realize I could have handled this much better. For one, even though she is a lying cheater she has never put the kids in the middle of our situation like that (so I probably owed her more respect/benefit). come to find out it was not exactly as S9 explained it (again, I probably should have known this) She took it HARD! No other text that night or next day. Finally on Sunday she texts me telling me that she is no longer going to allow S5 family birthday part at my house on Thursday. She says I can pick him up from School and have some birthday time with him but she will then pick him up and take him to GMA & GPA's house for family birthday.

So I ask if she can talk. We get on the phone and I ask her what is going on? She says it's a combination of things, but most importantly the texts and I don't feel comfortable around you or the house. I pushed... what are talking about feeling comfortable??? She proceeds to tell me that she doesn't like how I took down every picture of her, nor did she like how I kept MB door closed when she was over the day of the MRI. She feels I'm being mean and manipulative and then the rude texts... I just don't want to see you. She is also upset because I was 'distant' when she came to family bingo night. "You really didn't even talk to me".

At this point I"m feeling like I've clearly done something wrong (although I'm not afraid to make her mad) this was probably not a good situation to do so and most importantly I want save S5 Birthday party at my house.

So I explain that the pictures were necessary as I could not keep looking at her face (they were triggers for me). I explained that I replaced every picture I could to make sure the kids did not notice any holes (which they didn't). I explained that I'm not trying to manipulate just do what is best for me. AS for master bedroom door. I did do that to see if she would notice (not really sure why or what impact it would have) - just felt that if she is in MY house... that is now my personal space - so I'm keeping it more private. <-- this is not what I told her though. Just stated that I'm closing more doors upstairs and downstairs when they are not in use as it's more efficient for heating/cooling.

In my explanation of pictures and Bingo night I explain to her how she has hurt me deeply and even though I do like to see her and have her around form SOME events, it is still very difficult as I know you are sleeping with other people! I explain that it's too early for me to act 'normal' around her. I will work on it, but for now it will be a little uncomfortable while we go through this. This then sparks more relationship talk. She reminds me I'm not the only victim and that she is hurt and scared too. She tells me: "I'm not anyone else's" <-- her way of saying I"m NOT serious with anyone right now (but also still leaving it open to sleep around). I remind her of my boundaries and that I do not consider us "working" on this relationship through separation as we originally agreed - if she is still sleeping with other people. I will not be in an open relationship and will not compete with the "honeymoon phase & fantasy" of the other relationships.

Anyway, that is the meat of it. It lasted 1.5hrs. I got the birthday back at my house. I also felt like we had a decent talk as I was able to remind her that I'm hurt, ok but still hurt. Re-establish my boundaries that I would like to 'work' on this but not while OP are still around.

so now I'm torn... I know that overall this conversation really doesn't mean much. But as crazy as some of the stuff she is doing, I do feel like she is looking for reasons to save this R. I also understand the need for her to feel some loss as I can't just be plan B.

She has only been out for 2 weeks. So i know there is a lot of time - but where is the balance between DB and IC suggestions, as well as re-establishing attraction?

on a side note: I went out on Saturday met a woman who is also going through D. Not sure timing only overheard others talking about her sitch... but got her number and have been texting. Looking to possibly ask for dinner this week. <-- this really helped me over the weekend. I know I probably need to avoid sexual relationship - but I will not be limiting my options. Only making sure I"m completely honest with her about where I am emotionally.


Last edited by P_Jam; 04/23/19 07:37 PM.

H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
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PJ,

Wow lots of mistakes right out of the gate. She’s manipulating you. You don’t work on a relationship by moving out and sleeping with OM. So your IC is encouraging you to pursue a woman who is rejecting you? Your IC is watching to many rom com movies. That BS doesn’t work in real life.

You missed opportunities to validate and called her pathetic. Pretty sure that’s not going to attract her back.

This is going to take a really long time. You can’t pretend to move on. Trust me they know.

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LH,
Well in her defense she actually hasn't said "we are working on it". That is what we originally agreed to, then she has another PA and i told her to leave - witch changed the 'working on it".

And I did validate every issue/feeling she had. All of them, as they are all real. None of them were about OM. I sincerely apologized about the "pathetic' text (and meant it) because it was wrong.

IC does not think I should "pursue". Only that I have a right to know where her head is at, sometime in the near future 4-6 weeks. He is not convinced it should take more than 6 months to get a better feel in which way she is going. It will take a very long time to repair, but shouldn't take that long to decide if it's possible to repair. He also would not councel me in anyway to be 'waiting' for any longer than 3-6 months.

Although, i get your point about pretending to move on... It' doesn't happen over night. So I guess what I'm asking.. is what I do in the mean time. I guess just try to be happier when I am around her. Not pursuing but not really distant either...


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
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Originally Posted by P_Jam
I don't feel comfortable around you or the house. I pushed... what are talking about feeling comfortable???

The above is not validation.

I guess it could be slightly confusing because you are not married but you have a a legal custody arrangement and support is in place correct?

My ex filed for D. We have a custody arrangement and I pay support. I don't have a right to know where my exs head is at ever. We are divorced. Unless I am missing something in her mind you are done. Obviously if she changes her mind a recon could be in the cards in the future.

In fours years on the board I do not think I have seen one situation where a WW moved out settled custody and finances and had a change of heart in 3-6 months. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by P_Jam
Been away from the board for a few days. Update on sitch...

Background:
1. IC says that I need to be careful as coming off to WW as if I'm "completely done". He's concerned that she will take this as more of the same (since BD issue is = neglect) and provide her more reason to just move on. Also how can you rebuild attraction if always distant.


Becareful. Most IC are classically trained NOT DB trained. Detached <> distant. Common LBS mistake. Present is the number one rule of loving detachment. Pleased. Upbeat. Cordial and kind. YOU JUST DO NOT REACT EMOTIONALLY TO WHAT SHE SAYS OR DOES. Negative or positive. This is why you LISTEN and VALIDATE.

If you are distant then you are not detached. You are unengaged. Not the same.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

2. WW has always been friendly through the entire process face to face, with kids and $ settlement, as well as parenting plan. Still a lying cheater behind my back, but she has not portrayed a lot of the rude/mean characteristics of many other WW ive read about. <-- I know some will say this doesn't matter. But for me it's 'concerning' because I either let her have a little 'cake' or I come off as the rude/mean one.


This is reacting emotionally to what she says and does. IE NOT detached. Listen. Validate. It isn't complex. It is hard to get good at it but the plan is simple.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

3. WW is girls gone wild. No specific OM that she is 'in-love' with. Multiple EA and couple of PA


Detached. IE this rolls off your back like water off a duck. You continue to key off of her and her actions and words. Stop. Focus on you. I will read below with a keen eye toward how your GAL is going. If it isn't I will issue a 2x4!

Originally Posted by P_Jam

Sitch...
The night I took the kids for her (on her night) to get them to football the next day (because she had to work). S9 tells me that WW would not let him call me the night before. I questioned him multiple times to try and make sure what I was hearing was correct. Based on multiple answers it seemed that it might have been the case (just as he stated it). I was flaming made and texted WW: "S9 says that you would not let him call me last night, we agreed this would NEVER happen. Pathetic".



Not detachment. YOU CANNOT CONTROL HER. Even if she bad mouths you to the kids, you cannot control her. The more you try the more she will resist. Let me ask you.......how would a man only a fool would leave deal with this situation?

Originally Posted by P_Jam

[b][/b] Now, in hindsight I realize I could have handled this much better. For one, even though she is a lying cheater she has never put the kids in the middle of our situation like that (so I probably owed her more respect/benefit). come to find out it was not exactly as S9 explained it (again, I probably should have known this) She took it HARD! No other text that night or next day. Finally on Sunday she texts me telling me that she is no longer going to allow S5 family birthday part at my house on Thursday. She says I can pick him up from School and have some birthday time with him but she will then pick him up and take him to GMA & GPA's house for family birthday.


"Okay, sounds good!" Again, you can't control this.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

So I ask if she can talk. We get on the phone and I ask her what is going on? She says it's a combination of things, but most importantly the texts and I don't feel comfortable around you or the house. I pushed... what are talking about feeling comfortable??? She proceeds to tell me that she doesn't like how I took down every picture of her, nor did she like how I kept MB door closed when she was over the day of the MRI. She feels I'm being mean and manipulative and then the rude texts... I just don't want to see you. She is also upset because I was 'distant' when she came to family bingo night. "You really didn't even talk to me".


Text was rude. Learn and move on. But what you have to understand is this, no matter what you do it will be wrong to her. If you pursue and pressure, she will complain. If you back off and give her space, she will say you are being mean and ignoring her. With WWs YOU CANNOT WIN. This is why you do.....NOTHING. Be kind, polite, nice, accommodating. But focus on YOU. Your GAL. Your 180s. Loving detachment. Be so busy with all of that, and then you won't have time to react badly to her. (Remember, RESPOND to her do NOT react.)

Originally Posted by P_Jam

At this point I"m feeling like I've clearly done something wrong (although I'm not afraid to make her mad) this was probably not a good situation to do so and most importantly I want save S5 Birthday party at my house.

So I explain that the pictures were necessary as I could not keep looking at her face (they were triggers for me). I explained that I replaced every picture I could to make sure the kids did not notice any holes (which they didn't). I explained that I'm not trying to manipulate just do what is best for me. AS for master bedroom door. I did do that to see if she would notice (not really sure why or what impact it would have) - just felt that if she is in MY house... that is now my personal space - so I'm keeping it more private. <-- this is not what I told her though. Just stated that I'm closing more doors upstairs and downstairs when they are not in use as it's more efficient for heating/cooling.

In my explanation of pictures and Bingo night I explain to her how she has hurt me deeply and even though I do like to see her and have her around form SOME events, it is still very difficult as I know you are sleeping with other people! I explain that it's too early for me to act 'normal' around her. I will work on it, but for now it will be a little uncomfortable while we go through this. This then sparks more relationship talk. She reminds me I'm not the only victim and that she is hurt and scared too. She tells me: "I'm not anyone else's" <-- her way of saying I"m NOT serious with anyone right now (but also still leaving it open to sleep around). I remind her of my boundaries and that I do not consider us "working" on this relationship through separation as we originally agreed - if she is still sleeping with other people. I will not be in an open relationship and will not compete with the "honeymoon phase & fantasy" of the other relationships.


First, asking for the call was a mistake. Second, YOU TALKED WAY TOO MUCH! You do not owe her an explanation for the pictures...SHE FIRED YOU AS HER H. Listen. Validate.

This was a setback my friend, no other way to put it. You should be avoiding these talks.....like the plague. Who cares if she complains.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

Anyway, that is the meat of it. It lasted 1.5hrs. I got the birthday back at my house. I also felt like we had a decent talk as I was able to remind her that I'm hurt, ok but still hurt. Re-establish my boundaries that I would like to 'work' on this but not while OP are still around.

You should have done birthday without her, let her celebrate the way she wanted to. The talk was NOT decent. It got you no where. You re-established a boundary? You mean she didn't already know that? She didn't know you were still hurt? This talk netted nothing, except a birthday party that now includes her again and should not.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

so now I'm torn... I know that overall this conversation really doesn't mean much. But as crazy as some of the stuff she is doing, I do feel like she is looking for reasons to save this R. I also understand the need for her to feel some loss as I can't just be plan B.

She has only been out for 2 weeks. So i know there is a lot of time - but where is the balance between DB and IC suggestions, as well as re-establishing attraction?


Listen to the IC and you will most likely be D'd. DB and you may still be D'd but the chances for R are better. We've all seen this 100 times if we've seen it once. DB is no guarantee, but what the IC is suggesting is ALMOST a guarantee of the opposite.

Originally Posted by P_Jam

on a side note: I went out on Saturday met a woman who is also going through D. Not sure timing only overheard others talking about her sitch... but got her number and have been texting. Looking to possibly ask for dinner this week. <-- this really helped me over the weekend. I know I probably need to avoid sexual relationship - but I will not be limiting my options. Only making sure I"m completely honest with her about where I am emotionally.


So do you want to save your MR, or date? You can't do both my friend. This is a violation of sandi's rules.....stay away from the the bar scene. No good can come of it. You are going down the wrong road. Very few LBSs have jealoused their WAS back. You are going to end up D'd AND hurting this new woman. BAD IDEA.

Sorry for the 2x4s, but you are headed the wrong direction and need a course correction. And your GAL looks almost non-existent except to put yourself in bad situations. Like Saturday night. Go out with the guys. Forget women for now.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Also LH is giving you solid feedback. Dude knows his stuff. And you are bucking against that feedback. Why?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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