Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,048
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,048
I think he's temp checking. He knows you made yourself vulnerable, he knows you were putting yourself out there, and he's afraid that he blew it. So he's making sure you're still on the hook. And he's scared he pushed you too far or rejected you too much. Now might be the time to respond honestly and let him know that yes, you are disappointed by his behaviour and you're considering your best options as to how to do forward and would like some space and time to do that.

Have you done much reading about alcoholism, Dilly? I have it in my family which is why I feel comfy speaking to it on your thread. It might not apply, and might not be useful to you - but one of the things that is often said is that it is a family illness - enabled by immediate family and damaging family as much as the addict. The family need recovery as much as the addict does.

Apparently someone with a problematic relationship to a substance or activity can't really have an intimate relationship - their primary relationship is with their substance or activity (gambling, sex, crack, work, porn - whatever - booze will probably kill you quicker than most of the other substances or activities but the way it works is pretty much the same.) They also say that the person who wants the intimate relationship with the addict probably doesn't really want an intimate relationship - they'd choose someone available if that was the case - and in the end they have a relationship with the substance at second hand, which is also called co-dependency or enabling.

I know it all sounds a bit weird - but in my experience it really is like this. My father was a drinker, and I've had to address a lot of this in my IC and it still shows up in my way of relating to other people - particularly men - even if they aren't drinkers - so it can be really deep rooted.

It's interesting your H says he's an alcoholic. There's such a huge stigma about that that people very rarely use it as a self-deprecating joke unless they secretly do mean it, or are trying to evade responsibility for their behaviour (aka: 'it's not my fault I was mean to you - I'm just an alcoholic, what do you expect?')

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
Originally Posted by dillydaf
OK so it's 8am and since I texted him this morning to say we arrived home ok he has texted me 6 times and rung me once. Is this him apologising for how he was over the weekend? Maybe. A few of them were about logistics things but some of the questions were expressing an interest in my work (I have a half yearly review this morning which I'm prepping for). Truly weird, but I'm quite detached about it and not reading too much into it (think I've been guilty of this in the past).


He needs you to like him. No more no less. Respond to the texts in a friendly none threatening / non pursuing manner - in the same way you would respond to a friend.

Originally Posted by dillydaf
I had a dream last night that dh had an accident and broke his arm and I was upset about it. And then he said he'd fallen over drunk and hurt himself again, and he was wearing a cycle helmet to protect his head in case he fell over again. I woke up halfway through this dream and was thinking it means he's damaged in the head and needs to be treated with care and empathy. Well, that was one interpretation anyway, the other is that he's an alcoholic incapable of looking after himself properly (I did say that the other day, well I said I wished he was able to work less so he could look after himself more and he said he was just an alcoholic but work doesn't stress him out too much. Hmmm)


My take ... you want to fix him. You see yourself as the savior and him the one who needs saving. But Dilly, you need to save you. You can only save you. Let him be.

You sound like you are doing great in other aspects of your life, but it is only half a life. Focus on you. If you knew your H wasn't coming back where would you be in 12 months?. What would be your goals?

Originally Posted by dillydaf
I'm going to text dh at some stage and say 'I don't think we were our best selves in France, I'm going to be my best self over Easter, starting with not drinking wine because it messes with my head'. Thoughts on that? I would like to reassure him that I will be safe to spend time with after last weekend, so that we can both be more relaxed.


Yes, he will be anxious about the time you're planning to spend together this weekend. But I am not sure telling him a) he wasn't on his best self in France and b) that your not drinking going to relax him and make him feel safe to spend time with you. He will be anxious regardless, and with a text like that, he will feel pressured to be on better behavior and well, the second part can be taken as a dig at his drinking.

Don't send him anything. You be your best self when you are with him. Consistent actions not words. If he is a [censored] that's on him.

Re the lack of physical intimacy. I remember reading about an experiment where they took baby monkeys and gave them a choice of either a stuffed toy shaped like a monkey or a milk from a metal bowl. They chose the warmth of the teddy over the milk. They nearly starved rather than eat. We all need to feel loved. But you are not a baby monkey. You have the capacity to get through this. But first, you have to put aside your insecurities and learn to be on your own.

Last edited by FlySolo; 04/17/19 09:07 AM.

W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
D
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
FS: I don’t want to be on my own. I feel like I’ve been on my own for years, and now my kids are teens it’s even more obvious that I’m on my own. This BD has taught me that I’ve had enough of being on my own, I need more company and physical comfort. And now I’ve learnt it I’m not going back. I think you’re right about not saying anything in advance though FS. I disagree about wanting to fix him, to me my dream said show him kindness and empathy, he has problems accepting those but I can show them anyway. In 12 months I have zero idea where I will be, in 6 months I finish up my massive project and it’s mostly over. I’ll have a huge gap in my life and no plan yet of what to do afterwards. Probably recover for a few months first then assess! I’m not worrying about that now, I have plenty of resources to do whatever I like really. I’m comfortable with that particular uncertainty, I’m very good at filling my life with many activities.

Alison: you’re right it was a temp check. But I don’t think yesterday was the time to say I was disappointed in his behaviour, it needed to be said nearer the time. Like you don’t punish a kid 2 days after they’ve done something wrong because then it’s not learning. If he behaves like that again I will be letting him know. My behaviour was not ideal though either, we should both take responsibility.

Re the alcoholism, when we met he obviously wasn’t an alcoholic! He didn’t drink that much till his job got more and more senior and he had more and more money for nice wine. He sees it as his one vice, his one comfort. He’s tried to stop over the years, always in January which is a stressful time at work. His work culture revolves round macho drinking so I don’t know how much is him and how much is years of that. Maybe you’re right that I didn’t want an intimate relationship, being a distancer meant I was ok with that. I’m not ok with it any more.

Anyway, we’re out for the birthday dinner tonight. I haven’t had any wine since Sunday and my sleep is so much better for it. I think it’s common in perimenopause to drink too much because your stress response deteriorates, I have a friend a few years older than me who struggles when she never did before. It’s a complicated time and not just the hormones. I’ve done my daily yoga and had a good review yesterday. Now to tackle the house before more work, very busy day ahead.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
D
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
So the birthday dinner last night. I’ve realised I have a huge problem with birthdays because dh has pretty much ignored mine over the years. For example: for his 40th, we went to Switzerland for a week. For mine: I got a plastic ring and chicken and chips in a Spanish campsite. I mean seriously?? Then last year he went away for my birthday and rang me, then rang me back to apologise for forgetting my birthday, his friend had reminded him. I was ok about it at the time but now I’m incandescent every time I remember. So yes, birthdays seem to be a huge trigger for me. Ick.

So we went to meet dh for dinner, had a nice meal but he’d been in a meeting with colleagues he hates all day, and he was tired after getting back late from France on Sunday. He ordered a bottle of wine before I had a chance to say I wasn’t going to have any, so I ended up having 2 glasses (not big ones but still) and then I got loud-mouthed and annoying according to the kids. Ugh. Plus I didn’t sleep that well and had a hot flush during the night which I’ve avoided the last few nights. Anyway it got to 9 and I realised we had to rush to get the train or we’d get home a whole hour later so I dragged the kids out and rushed off. He looked very abandoned. Then one station entrance was shut so he caught us up at the station and I said we would miss our connection so he said get a taxi so we rushed off and just made it. He didn’t text me as he usually does to check we got the train. The thing is: he CHOSE this! We could easily have all stayed at his flat last night frown So I felt angry about that. I feel angry a lot right now. I’m back in victim mode and flailing about a bit. I want to get to a calmer place somehow but I’m not sure how.

Off for Easter weekend today, I have gardening and housework first. I’m definitely enforcing the no wine rule from now on, I should have told him in advance after all. The weather is nice and we can get out for some lovely walks, hopefully we can feel safer again, he can cook some nice meals and we can relax in each other’s company again. I’m going to make that list now.

Last edited by dillydaf; 04/19/19 06:50 AM.
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 921
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I don’t want to be on my own. I feel like I’ve been on my own for years, and now my kids are teens it’s even more obvious that I’m on my own. This BD has taught me that I’ve had enough of being on my own, I need more company and physical comfort. And now I’ve learnt it I’m not going back.


Read this again. I want you to objectively, through the eyes of the intelligent capable woman I know you are and then tell me what you see.

You are trying to swim against the tides. Let go. Your H cannot give you what you want. He is incapable. You know it and more importantly HE knows it. So, when he sees you, all that longing and desperation etched on your face, his own inability to meet those needs are reflected at him.

Give him space so he can work on him without the pressure of having to meet your needs as well. He needs to fix him. Then and only then will he be in a position to be the man you want him to be.

In the meantime, work on you. Work out what it is you fear and then face it. Dilly, being alone is not the same as being lonely. How can you expect someone to like being alone with you if you don't like being alone with you.

Re the physical comfort. You are not a child. You talk about things shriveling up. If all you are missing is intimacy, then there are a host of options available. Manual, electronic and straight male escort agencies to name a few. If you want something a little more real, then there are apps simply to facilitate 'hook-ups'.

But it isn't the physical intimacy is it? It's the last phone call of the day. It's sitting under a blanket on a Sunday morning watching rubbish TV. It's a cup of tea when you're feeling down. This is fear of being alone again. If you want to read about fear, go back through DV's thread. DV (and I dont' think she'd mind me saying this) was almost paralazed by her fear (growing old alone, losing her children 50% of the time, her children growing up with divorced parents). It was going to be a terrible future UNLESS she reconciled. But she let go. And her updates are now the highlight of my morning.

Re your dinner. Even if he bought the wine, it is still possible to say "No thanks. I'm not drinking tonight". You had that first glass. You had that second glass. You did that. Take responsibility, forgive yourself, and say you'll do better next time. Then let it go.

He didn't invite you to stay at his flat ... why, did you expect him to??.

Dilly, I know it may seem that I am being harsh. I do it because I see me. I see all those people who started here at the same time as me. We have all taken different trajectories. But we are all OK. And we did that because we let go. Not of necessarily of our H's, but of trying to save our R's.

You ask how do you get to calmer seas ... stop fighting it ... float and let the sea take you where it will. Leave him to him and put the focus on you.

No expectations. No assumptions.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
D
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
thanks for your thoughts FS. I don't think I'm ready to reply to them yet, I need to think about things.

Yesterday was stressful, I had an awful lot to do before going away so I worked very hard at gardening and getting the house in order, as it was still topsy turvy after the holiday. I said to dh that since I had a lot to get done we might as well travel down together. Now I wish we hadn't, he got stuck in horrendous traffic and was very stressed and kept ranting about how much time he had wasted in his car (he could have caught the train in 2 hours...). He drove like a maniac for us to make our train connection and he was pretty unpleasant company. I mostly ignored his behaviour, he wasn't actively attacking me, just ranting. I validated and he snapped back, difficult to validate someone who apparently doesn't want validating. The kids were in the back probably feeling very uncomfortable. This is why we hate travelling with him...

In the evening he made us both a very nice meal and I said I didn't want wine. He said fine, then offered me one later with dinner and I said no. I had a pint at the pub and a small bottle of lower alcohol beer with dinner (no hot flushes in bed thank goodness). He drank quite a lot and was very critical of the way I was cutting up the chicken. I agreed that I'm not good at carving. He then said something very cutting about me 'butchering' the chicken, not sure if he was trying to get a reaction or just be nasty for the sake of it, but it was cruel the way he said it. I thought about not being defensive, I thought about being assertive, then I thought there was no point in either if he was drunk. So I just thanked him for a delicious dinner and went and tidied up the dinner things. He was talking about some weird stuff about old people who hold inheritance over their families (my mum, my grandma, his mum), then a few minutes later he was saying he wanted to look into leaving the kids some property to avoid death duties in case he died early. I said it was unlikely he would die early, his dad died in his early 60s but he smoked 2 packets of cigarettes a day for 50 years. He said something about alcohol not being as bad as cigarettes. Definite denial plus MLC thoughts of mortality stuff going on there! Maybe that was why he was being unpleasant, I don't know.

Last night and this morning he was shouting down the stairs about people making too much noise in the kitchen (tidying up the kitchen is noisy, and he was watching telly very loudly). I hung out with ds2 a bit and then went to bed early to read my book. He joined me fairly early and said goodnight and then snored loudly. This morning I decided to go for a run and he offered to walk down to the bottom of the hill with me but I said no thanks. Then I went for my run and pondered why I would tolerate the behaviour he demonstrated yesterday and whether I do actually want to be married to someone who chooses wine over family. I'm unsure. He seems to have lapsed into old habits in the last few weeks, and I don't like this version of him. He went off for a long cycle while I was out and texted me a photo of the view and said it was hard work and asked me how my run was.

Positives: I like him cooking for me, I feel nurtured and looked after when he does that. I was quite unemotional, even in bed I didn't try cuddling up or anything, just kept to my side of the bed. I feel fairly calm and in control, and not drinking helps this.

Negatives: all the rest. If he keeps behaving like this I will need to think about how to put in a boundary against his critical behaviour. I will also be happy to see the back of him when he leaves tomorrow.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 310
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 310
Hey dilly , I am very sorry that you had to endure what must have been a very stressful and difficult journey and day and night . I think FS has some points to consider if you feel they relate to you and if so they would be very useful , but I get the feeling they are not matching up with your feelings and emotions.

I am a great fan of doing what works so here’s me butting in with my size 10’s

1) travelling :- it seems both sides know travelling together doesn’t work . Don’t do it ?

2) you felling nurtured with the meal :- I don’t feel a thanks and walk away was enough gratitude. High praise on the meal might encourage him to do more of it ? This also leads onto the situation afterwards regarding the kitchen noise , do you concur ?

3) you went for a run , why ? He went for a cycle , why do you think you BOTH did ?

All that aside please try to free yourself from negative thoughts and take a breather , relax and enjoy yourself .

On a selfish note , do you think I use too many commas, in the wrong places ? wink

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,048
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,048
Hi Dilly

that sounds really hard. I wonder if it's just too much right now - the holiday and the weekend together - even if you were controlling your expectations as well as you could, it sounded like he was pretty critical and hard work which might meant he had expectations of his own that weren't being met. You can't do anything about that at all - and his expectations might be entirely unreasonable anyway - but perhaps he just can't do family life right now, even in tiny doses?

It sounds - if I am honest - he is struggling with basic civility most of the time. I know you're thinking about what FS said, so I won't say more - other than - it's hard to see, from your description of your interactions this Easter and also over the past few weeks - what you get out of contact with him apart from keeping hope alive. At his best he is detached and self absorbed and sometimes needy. At his worst he's rude, blaming and incredibly critical. What's does seeing him offer you?

That's great news that the drinking - or lack of it - helped your health and hot flushes and also your sense of being centred and grounded. I don't drink so that hasn't been a challenge for me, but I stopped smoking at the start of Lent. I've already noticed a really strong improvement in my skin, my health, my energy, my sleeping, how sweet smelling I am. And after the first couple of weeks of crabbiness, I've also noticed my emotions are a bit more even - I don't feel snappy because I 'want a fag' and I'm not sneaking away and having them in secret around the kids any more then feeling ashamed about that. It's been such a kind and good thing to do for myself.

Maybe you refusing wine made your H feel judged about his own drinking. If so, that's on him and not you - nothing you need to do there, I think, other than continue to make healthy decisions for your own physical and emotional well being.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
D
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 704
Yes I hadn’t considered that he would get strung up about me not drinking actually. I told him though that both nights I slept without hot flushes so he can respect that for sure. Hot flushes in the night are awful, but the other night I had a much worse thing where I woke up burning in the night having had a nightmare, that was even worse. I broke my wine rule today because we went for lunch and I figured it was far enough away from bedtime that I would be ok, plus dh was leaving straight after lunch too so no chance of getting over emotional.

So it’s been a weird weekend. Yesterday I was mostly calm until dh came back and was super critical and I totally lost it and threw a mug across the room and stormed off. I apologised later and asked to start again. He cooked a nice meal. I did make a fuss about BOTH meals, Tryhard! This is a 180 because he is usually critical of my cooking (actually most domestic things I do) so I’m appreciative of his cooking nowadays. Later on he said I’d over reacted and I agreed. Still later I plucked up the courage to say that I can’t handle criticism or him making out I’m not good enough, and that if he has constructive criticism then I’m open to it but just plain critical comments I find hurtful. I suggested that at work he’s good at making constructive comments and maybe he could bring that into his marriage. He didn’t say anything but I felt I’d made my point fairly assertively given how upset I was about his behaviour this weekend (bordering on harsh a few times). Last night I went to sit with the kids and dh got upset that I’d not told him I was leaving the room, I apologised about that (he was flitting between the kitchen and the barbecue anyway and mostly ignoring me). We had a nice meal, then I went to bed super early. He joined me later. In the night I felt him softening so I snuggled up this morning and he didn’t push me away (that sounds pathetic, I realise, but you can tell when someone is flinching from you or tolerating you and it was nicer than that, difficult to explain though). In the morning he was quite attentive, asked if I’d slept ok and made me a coffee in bed. Then he suggested I went for a run and he’d walk out to join me. We had a nice walk back, then a lovely meal with the kids at a restaurant I’d booked which he really liked. We hugged goodbye and he left with ds1.
So a mixed weekend, the first 2 days were tricky but today was nice and ended on a good note. I don’t really know what to make of any of this. There was some weird stuff he said about dying early (his dad did, mostly because he smoked like a chimney). I’m giving him a few more weeks then I think I’m moving on, I need to see progress from him in order to have hope. In a way more time together was both good (because we relaxed eventually) and bad (because there was negative behaviour from both of us). I dunno.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 310
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 310
Hey dilly , sounds like things are getting much better, take it slowly and keep your expectations in check . Of course I am going to take all the credit for the positive upswing smile . Keep going , you are strong , you can do it.

Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard