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#2846018 04/19/19 01:58 AM
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Alright - been lurking a while but just now got around to posting. I'm now a little over 2.5 months from the DB in early February.

Background:
- Together for 12yrs
- Married for almost 10 (would be in July)
- S6 going on 7

I came home from work early in February and she stopped me in the kitchen and told me she wanted a divorce. I was in disbelief - she always loved me and went out of her way to do everything to show it. I loved her of course, though after a lot of reading I'm now seeing that I wasn't talking in her love language. I hadn't done the little things like holding hands, giving compliments, dates were few and far in between, etc. She knew I loved her, but combined with the following events/habits I gave her the impression I didn't love her and I have depleted her love bank.

Some major problems that I should have seen (hindsight being 20/20 is right):

- I have always been big into my hobbies - mostly car stuff. Had a Jeep when we were dating, it got built into a dedicated rock crawler on 40s/1 ton axles/stretched wheelbase while we were engaged/married. It was sold shortly after my son was born (I wanted to, I think she thought I resented her for selling it but I truthfully wanted it gone). I then got into autocross in 2012, right before son was born. It started out as "oh it's just one day a month" but turned into more than that...

- We moved from VA to OH with a job transfer in 2010 (1yr after marriage). It was partly motivated to get away from family since honestly my mom and her never really got along well. While there, I was frequently working on my Jeep with friends, etc and she was at home, though would sometimes come along. We were still dating pretty frequently and still very much into each other so I think all of that overshadowed the neglect that I was blind to seeing. She was working and going to school at night/online classes to work on her associates degree.

- We bought a house right before our son was born. It turned into a nightmare in year 2 because of ice dams forming on the roof filling the back wall of the house with water. Insurance wouldn't cover it as a "preexisting condition" because of the lack of ice and water shield... and one corner of the house had a failing foundation(concrete slab), plus complications with our son's birth made for tons of medical bills. We were looking at about 60k in debt total between all that stuff so we filed bankruptcy.

- We moved back to VA to be near family in 2015 and also so that she could finish school while I worked - my income was plenty for us 3 to live on.... BUT...

- ...because of our lease agreement, we had to pay out the remainder of the lease (something like 9mo left), there was no way to break the lease in Ohio. So we were forced to move in with her parents. They had an extra room, and were excited about having us return and seeing their grandson... so we were able to move and finish paying the lease in Ohio....

- ...Well about 2 months into living with them, her dad (technically step-dad, but he's been around since she was little) divorced her mom. They'd been married for like 20 years, he was retiring from the Navy. Her mom had problems with compulsive shopping, racking up tens of thousands in credit card debt, buying things while he was at sea (one time she bought a house without his knowledge...). He was over it. She was always depressed, sleeping much of the day, wasn't pleasant to be around, etc. They also had a son together who was a high school drop out, lived with them, played video games all day, didn't take care of himself at all, etc. He still doesn't have a job to this day (age 23 IIRC?). This divorce was really hard on her. The way her dad acted was very distant and out of character, he flipped out on everyone at one point, etc. My W actually stopped talking to him for a good while.

- Note that I am commuting about 100mi round trip daily to get to work and back this entire time. The store closer to us had weird shift hours where I would hardly ever get to see them. We wanted to be closer to family to be able to help watch our son if need be. Plus it's a much nicer area near the beach.

- We got out of there and into our own place in 2016. I was still continuing to do autocross, but started volunteering with the club to do timing and scoring. It started out as thinking I was being helpful by saving money not having to pay for entry by doing one of the "chief" positions. It took a little bit of time away at home when auditing results. There was a weekend where I went to NJ to run an event there with a friend who helped me with suspension development on my car. After the DB she told me that it was this weekend that she started really feeling lonely and that I wasn't really caring about her feelings, etc.

- End of 2016 I also started getting into doing track days (HPDE). Our club does both autocross and track days. 9 auto-x days per year and 2-3 track day weekends, plus monthly club meetings the Thursday prior to each autocross event.

- In 2017 I got pressured into running for President of the club for the 2018 season. The W thought I should do it, it would be good for the club, etc. We even jokes about being able to call her the "first lady."

- 2018 season was busy and was far more work than I'd expected. Early in the year we had a talk about divorce... she told me she was lonely with me being gone as much as I was - but for some reason in my mind "lonely" was more like "bored" to me. She didn't have any hobbies, it was family stuff and doing things together and that was about it. She got a dog. This was a huge red flag that I kick myself for not seeing. I told her to give me until the end of the year and she agreed.

- In the summer of 2018 we found out she was pregnant... I was telling everyone that there was no way I'd be able to continue with the club in 2019 and needed to start looking for a replacement. In September I took a day off work to go hear the baby's heartbeat... it wasn't there. We found out she had a miscarriage. I was sad and she took it especially hard (understandably so).

- For some stupid reason, I caved to pressure from others and had the audacity to ask her if I should run for President again in 2019. I should have never done that. I was lulled into thinking it'd be easier since at the end of the season stuff was considerably slower paced. She told me that she would support me in whatever I wanted to do. I was later told after the DB that she went along with it because I'd either A) resent her if I didn't do it or B) I'd just do it anyway. I honestly can't say she's wrong, it wasn't until the DB that I truly realized my priorities were messed up all this time.

- End of 2018 she graduated and got her bachelors degree. In January 2019 she got a job.

- In January of 2019 I was coming home from work, answering emails, calling people, setting up stuff for the season, etc from the time I got home from work, to the time I went to bed. There were several nights that she went to bed alone. I would take a break occasionally to watch a show or two with her, but then it was right back to work on stuff that now really doesn't mean anything to me. There were times that my son wanted to play with me, and I'd tell him "one minute" "one minute" "one minute" etc and that minute never came. When he'd try to jump on me I'd hold my hand out to hold him away from me... I wish I could have seen clearly and enjoyed time with him when I could. I took both of them for granted and always felt they'd "always" be there. Man was I wrong.

- Late in January 2019 we found out she was pregnant again... and then had a miscarriage almost immediately after finding this out. I was at work on a Friday, working on a vehicle that had to be done by the end of the day(had been there for weeks)... when I got a call that she was told to go to the hospital and have a DNC performed... I did not know how invasive/traumatic that procedure can be... I stupidly asked her if she had a friend with her... she had a friend from work with her. I asked if I needed to leave work... she said "I guess not." I told her to call me if I needed to leave. I guess my lack of urgency told her everything she needed to know to end everything.

I was a complete idiot, with priorities way out of whack. We have had several good memories in between all of the bad stuff above... we took a camping trip last summer with my son which was a lot of fun, and in January actually took him to see his first movie in theaters together (A Dog's Way Home). Seeing this movie in theaters was actually a really good time and made me really start to regret taking the President role a second year.

I also had a pornography addiction - I would frequently get off in the shower and she knew what was up... I didn't think much of it ("every guy does that")... but didn't think of it in terms of robbing her of intimacy. Funny enough I've been able to cut it out entirely (ok... one day I relapsed) over the last 2 months... when it contributes to ruining your life it is a lot less appealing.



Post DB:

So for the first ~3 weeks I did all the wrong things, begging and pleading, etc.

I let the rest of the board of directors of the club know that I had to step down the day after the DB. This didn't change anything.

I thought she just needed space so I moved out the following weekend and am renting a room in a friend's house closer to work. Knowing what I know now, I probably should have not left, though it'd have been far harder to GAL and suspect it would have just made her angrier. Our son is on the spectrum for autism - she claimed it would be hard for him to understand cohabitation. I justified moving out by not being able to force her to love me again.

The lowest point in my life was the day after she told me, I sat in our closet with a gun to my chin, crying uncontrollably for a solid 20 minutes. I couldn't do it because it would have been worse to not be there for my son at all, and it would have just made things harder on everyone.

The Friday prior to moving out I played with my son for a solid 3 hours straight... without the worries of the club on my mind I could actually really just enjoy my time with him. I wish I'd quit it sooner.

For Valentine's Day (a couple days prior, I wasn't planning on being around) I gave her an Ihop gift card (her favorite place) to take our S6 out to dinner.

To throw a wrench into things, our son got suspended from his after school care for acting out, so I left work early to get him off the school bus. I got a single rose for her and put it on the dash of her car while she was at work with a note that said "Because you deserve to feel wanted." I couldn't help myself. She said it was sweet, but her mind was made up.

The worst part is when he asks why I can't live with him. At one point I told him that I needed to give mommy space... he will say things like "you need to give mommy more room so that you can live her again" which just kills me.

I started going to church after the DB. She was a Sunday school teacher, and I rarely went before. Usually had an event going on, or was too tired, etc. Come to find out she had been praying for me to change for a long long time per the one Sunday school program director.

She called me another time about 2 weeks after the DB because she thought she had pneumonia and had to go to the doctor... I left work right away (I wasn't making that mistake twice) so I could watch our son so she could go. We made sandwiches in the kitchen together and she told me that it would be so much easier financially if I just came back... but she couldn't do it. I told her that it would be for the wrong reasons and she needs to WANT me back so we can work on things.

Another week later the brakes on her car went out... so I called in to work, drove her to work, got my son on the bus, and got a master cylinder for her car. After picking her up I replaced it that night.

About the 3 week mark she told me that she started talking to another man... they're "just friends" and he's going through "the same thing" which absolutely crushed me. She told me in case me or one of my friends see them together she said. FWIW I haven't heard anything else about this since then. We did establish that nobody goes around our son until there is a legitimate serious relationship/over 1yr+.

She ended up buying a new car, and I had to sign off on trading in hers since my name was on the title. We had a very nice, cordial exchange while at the dealer (where I work, but different location). They tried to not give her the family discount since we're living in separate places... but I stuck up for her and pointed out on the policy that it's irrelevant, and she's still my W since VA doesn't have a "legally separated" status. You're either married or single. So I saved her $800.

Love with your actions right?



So the main takeaways for the last ~2 months is that she's just angry. I've stopped all pursuit, pressuring, etc. I was asking about some of her debts at one point (I was going to offer to take on some of her medical debt, she has about 8k of it), but she essentially told me she doesn't care... she just wants me to pay child support and "leave her the hell alone."

The last week has been good overall. I've been taking my son every other weekend, and stopping by every Wednesday night to play with him/get him dinner/shower/ready for bed. She usually leaves the apartment while I'm over there.

I lost 15lbs during the first 3 weeks from not eating... and have lost another 25lbs since (so from 230 down to 190). I've been eating healthier (mostly chicken/fish/salads and nothing but water for the most part) which is a huge 180 from what I used to do... eating fast food out for lunch all the time, etc.

I'm really feeling like I'm owning this GAL concept now. I went shopping this past weekend to get a bunch of new clothes since nothing fits... been keeping a clean haircut, got some new shoes, etc. I've always dressed kind of like a bum... so now that I'm looking better I'm actually feeling really good about myself.

I'm at the point where I still want to save my marriage... but I know that I'll be OK either way.


Will post more details/fill in when time allows. I've been sitting down to type this out too long already.

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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hi regret88,

You seem to have a pretty good overall view of some of the pitfalls. That's a good starting point.

I think for right now, you need to focus on being the most authentic, positive version of YOU you can be. Keep eating healthy, and I"m glad you're dressing nice. Do some stuff you like to do - you don't need to completely give up all of your hobbies. But keep them in check so that your son always comes first.

You say that you have stopped all pressure/pursuit and you very well may have. This is good. But keep posting, because sometimes pursuit shows up in subtle ways, and folks here will be able to assist you in seeing patterns or seeing if you're making your W feel overwhelmed.

I think validation will be especially important in your situation. Your W feels unwanted, unloved, and I suspect she has felt so for a long time. You need to show her you are listening. Not trying to fix thing, not trying to swoop in and save the day. just HEARING her as a person. Please study-up on Validation (there is a thread).

Take care of yourself during this process.

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Quote
So the main takeaways for the last ~2 months is that she's just angry.

So she had a miscarriage and now is going through the stages of grief.
Do you think you can FIX that?

It is a natural thing to happen after a pregnancy is terminated.
There is only one thing that fixes it, TIME.

Step back and give it to her.

Time to be the BEST DAD that you can be.

Right now that is the most important thing.


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Regret, it's good that you are able to look at all your faults and realize your W has plenty of good reasons to want out of the M. It's great that you're doing 180's on those things but please understand that right now she sees it all as "too little too late" and probably resents your changes and is asking herself "why now, why didn't he do something in the last 2 years when there was still a chance, why did he wait until my heart was closed off to him." And she is right, you should have done it then rather than now. But so should the rest of us. So now you've got to give her TIME and SPACE. No more flowers on the dashboard. No more sweet gestures of any kind because they are PRESSURE and right now she wants ZERO pressure from you. So back off. Leave her alone. Focus on you and S. With time she may start looking back, and when she does you want her to see a new you- healthy, independent, an awesome father, a loving person.

When you apply pressure you push her to divorce. Pressure is anything from relationship talks to gifts to trying to kiss or hug her to telling her you miss her. When you remove all pressure she will put things in neutral, and that gives you time to work on yourself and time for her to start appreciating the "new you".


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Thanks guys.

Some other pertinent info from the past few months:

- She has created a new FB account with her maiden name, and the page she had was just a single post saying that "due to some life changes I am creating a new account, you can find me at...."

- She has said she was planning on selling her wedding rings. This was almost a month ago, to my knowledge they've not been sold yet (earlier this week when getting some of my stuff, I ran across it at the bottom of a drawer).

- I initially asked for marriage counseling, she agreed to go but only to help me "deal with it" for the first session. She laid out all the previously mentioned issues. The counselor pushed for her to give us some time but she said she was done. I've since been going every few weeks for myself.

- Her biggest overall complaint/root issue I think is me being "childish" in her mind. Which I agree. Always in my hobbies, not helping around the house or with our son much, sleeping in on my free weekends (while she went to church much of the time), the porn thing, etc. Not being in the house will make some of those hard to demonstrate 180s, but I'll do what I can and hope for the best while preparing for the worst.

- Her mom(who I suspect was in her ear pushing for divorce)last wastching our son after school for a while, but she bailed on this after just a month or so. She complained that her back hurt and couldn't do it anymore. So the W was forced to enroll him in after school care at $560/mo. I took a Friday off to get him off the bus a few weeks ago to help out. I got no thank you or anything from this, but got some extra time with my son.

- This past week he came down sick and got sent home from school on a Thursday and couldn't go Friday (she took that time off work unpaid - I wasn't made aware until later in the weekend). She asked if I could take Monday off work to help her out, I am near out of sick time for now, but I told her I'd check, so went to work and verified I had a bit less than a full day but told her I'd take it off anyway. I never got a thank you for this (though I wasn't really expecting one).

- For a while she was threatening that I had to keep paying her rent ($1300/mo), but eventually backed down and I've taken my name off the lease with her present. Been unofficially paying ~$800/mo for child support based on the VA child support calculator. It's all documented transfers through my bank to cover myself. This has been agreed for the last month or so.

- To my knowledge she still hasn't retained a lawyer. I've got money set aside for mine, though I'm debating just retaining her anyway. I THOUGHT about having her draw up a separation agreement, but figured that would be viewed as me taking control of the situation. Even though I don't want to go through with this.


- In the past couple weeks I've started seeing some less angry interactions with her:

- When visiting on Wednesday night it was strictly business, she didn't stop to tell me anything or start an argument, etc. We had a bit of small talk about our son and that was basically it.

- Earlier this week I transferred another $75 to her to assist with the child care enrollment that she paid a few weeks ago (this is about the 60% I owe per VA child support based on our income ratios). She actually texted me back "thanks" for the first time in a while.

- The other day she texted me asking to help move her old furniture to the dumpster and if I could bring someone to help since she doesn't know who else to call. I agreed since I'd be there anyway to pick up my son for the weekend. She texted me that she really appreciated it. It was kind of awkward waiting there for my dad to show up and help. She started complaining that I dropped him off too early the last time and he shouldn't be returned until 7. I was a bit baited and defended it being that I picked him up several hours earlier than usual that weekend, but ended the conversation when I realized what was going on. When my dad showed up we tossed the couches and left. This wasn't a great interaction but...

- ...she calls me today, she needed someone to vent to because the furniture guys wouldn't even try to move her new sectional up the stairs into the apartment, the sales guy said it shouldn't have been a problem, and she had to return it and was charged a 20% restocking fee. I was able to use some validation statements to sympathize with her. She was complaining that her mom didn't understand why she was so upset.


Overall I'm doing well now, focusing on not making matters worse and just enjoying being myself and doing fun things with my son.

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I guess the main thing I'm wondering is how far to distance myself at this point in time? The last half of this week especially has been very different with her making small nice gestures and calling to talk to me about the furniture ordeal... Should I have been less sympathetic or even cut off the conversation entirely? Part of me says that would make her angrier, the other part says it would be a wake up call that I won't be there for that type of stuff anymore.

Also I'm conflicted about how to handle Mother's Day... I know not to get her anything emotionally driven... But a simple card with something small may be in order? I was emotionally unavailable and frankly bad about remembering holidays/getting gifts before the last minute for a long time... This could be a 180 OR it could be seen as a ploy to get her back. If I get her nothing does she still think I haven't changed?

I am a very logic-based person and over-process everything.

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A small gift from your son is the right call on Mother’s Day. End those calls early saying that you have to run.

You’re trying to think logically and your W is thinking based on emotions. You are on two completely different spectrums right now.

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I agree with LH19. It is mother's day, so a gift from your son to his mother is appropriate. You are the conduit to make this happen, and insure it does happen. It should not be romantic at all, and should be "signed" from him.

From a young boy perhaps some flowers or candy if you can't identify another idea.

The only exception might be a store-bought simple card from you that only says something very simple that acknowledges her role as mum. "Happy Mother's Day. (Son's name) is very lucky to have you as a mom"

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Thanks again guys.

Anyway everything took a complete nosedive this past Sunday.

Of course divorce is something painful to go through and I've had a few people I've learned on for talking to about it. One of them was a mutual friend of ours who claimed she would keep anything either of us said private from the other.

When I dropped my son off she made some comment about how I need to "watch who I'm talking to" because I was allegedly:
- "bragging" about only paying $500/mo in rent where I'm staying (which is BS... our "friend" asked me about my living situation, I stated I was able to live comfortably for now to save up, but realistically moving into any decent apartment by myself will mean I have near zero extra money to save so I'm stuck where I'm at)
- trying to manipulate her by thinking about not watching my son after school the one time she asked. The discussion with our "friend" was more about how she asked me last minute, I didn't have much time off remaining, and how I internally struggled whether to help or not at first. It's true because at what point am I being taken advantage of? She is the one who wanted this... on one hand I was looking at it as why should I make it easy on her? On the other because IMO it was the right thing and got to spend some extra time with my son.

I didn't even bother trying to refute anything. So take this as a lesson about STOP talking to others about your issues. Mutual friends will pick sides even if they claim they won't.

She also asked me "what was taking so long" getting a lawyer to draft up a separation agreement. I told her I was waiting for her because I didn't want to be accused of taking control or whatever. She then went on a rant about how she doesn't have the money to get a lawyer, etc.

I contacted mine and am going to have something drawn up soon. It'll cost me $675 but at this point I don't even care. I just want something in writing to ensure I don't get screwed over if this goes all the way through.

So I've been focusing on moving forward without her as this situation just gets worse. I got some nice new shoes. My female friends tell me that women tend to notice shoes first... and my bummy looking $20 pair from Walmart weren't cutting it... hah. I now can at least understand her obsession with buying new shoes/clothes, etc. now. I guess I never really felt the need to look extra nice/attractive and that was just another thing on the list of problems.

I'm going over there tomorrow morning to go through some documents and get some stuff. She is apparently going out of town with my son for the weekend. I didn't/won't be asking where, etc. I'm taking a guess it's to see some of her family in PA.

I signed up for match.com (but didn't do anything with regards to making a profile, etc) to browse/get an idea of what the online dating pool looked like around here... got me a little excited about the potential future if things can't turn around. I then deactivated the account as I really shouldn't be pursuing someone else until the divorce is final. I have a lot of self-development to do and frankly am not ready.

I am going to try and start doing some things to be around new people more often... a friend from high school just got certified as a yoga instructor so I think I will try attending one of her classes in a few weeks, schedule permitting.

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