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#2846128 04/19/19 09:27 PM
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I am 40YO and my wife is 39YO. We met after High School. Married now for 10 years. Kids: B (6), G (4), Dog (10). We both have great jobs/careers, beautiful family, dog, terrific kids, lots of friends, both of our parents get along so well we celebrate all holidays together (both sides). Our friends all look up to us as the model couple "you're the only couple we know where we both like both spouses." Our marriage wasn't perfect, and I was not ideal - kids, work, home...stresses of life and we took each other for granted and spent all of our emotional energy on our young children. When our second was born, my wife was diagnosed with postpartum depression. That was two years of absolute hell. I went into "service" mode and worked to keep the family and household afloat.

Bomb dropped May 2018. I went on a trip for a weekend, everything was seemingly fine when I left. I came home after four days to the coldest shoulder I've ever experienced in my life. She was a different person. She said she needed space while we figure this out. I asked if there was anyone else, and if she wanted to go to therapy - she said no one else, and yes to therapy. Everyone was shocked, including her friends and family, she had not shared anything with them up to this point.

-Jun - couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, total despair. I dropped 25lbs and tried to focus on work and kids and just getting through. By July I had my feet under me again. Nested the kids at home while we lived elsewhere (friends, family). That continues to be our arrangement 10 months later.
-Jul/Aug - instead of therapy, we went to 'discernment counseling' (google it). We never talked about marital issues. After four sessions she called an end to our marriage. I was shocked. Waiting for divorce papers.
-Sep-Dec - massive anger and rage at anything I do. I took it like a punching bag, and didn't fire anything back.
-Nov/Jan - asks to go to therapy, I say OK. We go, and instead of talking about marital issues, we talk about issues created by the separation (schedule, how to handle holidays, etc). After the holidays she calls an end to the marriage, again. We go skiing together as a family the next day.
-Feb - asks if we can go to mediation because lawyers "don't seem like us." Then asks me to find mediators. I send her a couple, no response.
-Mar - nothing
-Apr - TBD

Friends and family think I'm 1) a saint for hanging in there 2) insane for hanging in there - "your spouse needs to [censored] or get off the pot." I just felt that the last thing she needed from me at this time was a heavy hand.

- She started running daily - was never a runner.
- She has huge mother issues from childhood, so much so she's been in therapy for 20 years to deal with it. She basically hated her mother (and sister), and now the three are best friends
- She has been seeing multiple therapists weekly for 10 months - the old therapist, a new therapist, psychic, hypnotherapist, etc
- Says she lost herself and doesn't know who she is anymore
- Says she still loves me (ie., ILWYBNILWY)
- Says we were never a good match
- Says she doesn't want a divorce but has to do this to find her happiness
- Says she wishes her parents got divorce when she was younger. Thinks my parents should divorce, everyone should divorce
- Says she is barely holding on and doesn't have enough strength for a relationship
- Says she wants a fresh start, wants to be on her own
- Says she needs to find her purpose
- Says she wants to write a book (never a writer)
- Says she doesn't want house or dog
- Says she wants to move to a new city
- Even the smallest thing overwhelms her
- Works a ton 50-70 hours a week. Likes her job but wants to get a new one

I love with my wife, I made a commitment to her and we are very compatible. I feel badly that she is in so much pain and in such a confusing time of her life, and it's frustrating that I can't help her now because I am the enemy. I do struggle with us still not having a conversation 10 months later about what brought us here. During this time I plowed myself into self discovery (daily reading, therapy, this forum (thank you), and enjoying life again. I feel like I knocked ten years of rust off, and started growing again. This will sound like I'm in denial, but it just doesn't feel over. I want her back, but then I think maybe I'm chasing a mirage that isn't there.

I'm not sure I have any questions for you all, but I would like your perspective and wanted to share my story.

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Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Originally Posted by Label
I am 40YO and my wife is 39YO. We met after High School. Married now for 10 years. Kids: B (6), G (4), Dog (10). We both have great jobs/careers, beautiful family, dog, terrific kids, lots of friends, both of our parents get along so well we celebrate all holidays together (both sides). Our friends all look up to us as the model couple "you're the only couple we know where we both like both spouses." Our marriage wasn't perfect, and I was not ideal - kids, work, home...stresses of life and we took each other for granted and spent all of our emotional energy on our young children. When our second was born, my wife was diagnosed with postpartum depression. That was two years of absolute hell. I went into "service" mode and worked to keep the family and household afloat.

Bomb dropped May 2018. I went on a trip for a weekend, everything was seemingly fine when I left. I came home after four days to the coldest shoulder I've ever experienced in my life. She was a different person. She said she needed space while we figure this out. I asked if there was anyone else, and if she wanted to go to therapy - she said no one else, and yes to therapy. Everyone was shocked, including her friends and family, she had not shared anything with them up to this point.

-Jun - couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, total despair. I dropped 25lbs and tried to focus on work and kids and just getting through. By July I had my feet under me again. Nested the kids at home while we lived elsewhere (friends, family). That continues to be our arrangement 10 months later.
-Jul/Aug - instead of therapy, we went to 'discernment counseling' (google it). We never talked about marital issues. After four sessions she called an end to our marriage. I was shocked. Waiting for divorce papers.
-Sep-Dec - massive anger and rage at anything I do. I took it like a punching bag, and didn't fire anything back.
-Nov/Jan - asks to go to therapy, I say OK. We go, and instead of talking about marital issues, we talk about issues created by the separation (schedule, how to handle holidays, etc). After the holidays she calls an end to the marriage, again. We go skiing together as a family the next day.
-Feb - asks if we can go to mediation because lawyers "don't seem like us." Then asks me to find mediators. I send her a couple, no response.
-Mar - nothing
-Apr - TBD

Friends and family think I'm 1) a saint for hanging in there 2) insane for hanging in there - "your spouse needs to [censored] or get off the pot." I just felt that the last thing she needed from me at this time was a heavy hand.

- She started running daily - was never a runner.
- She has huge mother issues from childhood, so much so she's been in therapy for 20 years to deal with it. She basically hated her mother (and sister), and now the three are best friends
- She has been seeing multiple therapists weekly for 10 months - the old therapist, a new therapist, psychic, hypnotherapist, etc
- Says she lost herself and doesn't know who she is anymore
- Says she still loves me (ie., ILWYBNILWY)
- Says we were never a good match
- Says she doesn't want a divorce but has to do this to find her happiness
- Says she wishes her parents got divorce when she was younger. Thinks my parents should divorce, everyone should divorce
- Says she is barely holding on and doesn't have enough strength for a relationship
- Says she wants a fresh start, wants to be on her own
- Says she needs to find her purpose
- Says she wants to write a book (never a writer)
- Says she doesn't want house or dog
- Says she wants to move to a new city
- Even the smallest thing overwhelms her
- Works a ton 50-70 hours a week. Likes her job but wants to get a new one

I love with my wife, I made a commitment to her and we are very compatible. I feel badly that she is in so much pain and in such a confusing time of her life, and it's frustrating that I can't help her now because I am the enemy. I do struggle with us still not having a conversation 10 months later about what brought us here. During this time I plowed myself into self discovery (daily reading, therapy, this forum (thank you), and enjoying life again. I feel like I knocked ten years of rust off, and started growing again. This will sound like I'm in denial, but it just doesn't feel over. I want her back, but then I think maybe I'm chasing a mirage that isn't there.

I'm not sure I have any questions for you all, but I would like your perspective and wanted to share my story.



this is typical script that all of us LBS get to hear. My w said the same thing ILYBNILWY, we were never good match, she lost herself and doesnt know who she is, needs to find her purpose ETC. I heard those exact things. IT really is amazing how all of our WAS say the exact same thing. Whether they are WAS,MLC, etc

You will hear from all the vets here soon and they truly are a godsend. Stop any pursuing. Do not bring up Divorce if it isn't what you want.

I am sorry you here but the people around here will help a lot.

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Hello Label

Welcome to the forum. I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. Thank you for sharing your story.

You will receive much hard earned wisdom from the kind and compassionate people here. It will look quite counterintuitive, and go against your instincts of what you feel you should do. This is a safe place. Feel free to ask questions, vent, and update. Post often, it really does help.

Your W’s confusion is very evident, the outward display of a hidden internal battle she cannot understand nor control. She is at the will of her emotions, trying anything and everything she feels like to rid the confusion and pain.

From your title it would appear you feel she is within the grasp of a mid-life crisis. Your retelling of the situation does indeed look like MLC. She was troubled from a trigger 18-24 months pre BD. The birth of D4 could be a trigger or one of a few triggers. However the birth of S6 two years earlier did not set her off, or not that you noticed. Her lead up could have been for longer than you realize or the real trigger, like the actual cause, is unknown - even to her.

A MLCer suffers a damage from childhood. A trauma from a person of authority from thier youth, usually childhood, when they were young and had less developed coping skills. This stunts thier emotional growth. Later in life, around midlife when mortality, and adult pressures build, this trauma(s) surfaces like it most likely has before during other periods of life transitions. However, this time she cannot bury it again. It refuses to release its grip.

Of course she has no idea what is happening, and slowly her emotions take over, consuming her. An unrelenting pain and emotional turmoil stirs within her, and she will blame someone. She projects this upon you, and she incorrectly assigns you as the cause of all this. You have seen and felt her rage. You have seen her displays of a completely different person. It is like an alien has taken over her body.

This is a person in crisis. They are beyound your ability to help. You did not break her, therefore you cannot fix her. She needs time and space to sort out her mind and emotions. This takes a while, a long while. Realize she will take what she needs, do whatever she needs to do. She is driven to do it.

Give her space and time. Focus on you and your children.

Label, your frustration from being unable to help her, the unwillingness on her part to talk about this - all expected and quite normal in this situation.

A few questions if you don’t mind.

What is the current living situation? It sounds like you are living seperate? What is the custody arrangement?

Have you talked to a lawyer? If not, do it now. This is for information only, you need not use anything yet.

I understand you are frustrated that you two haven’t talked about what brought you to this point. She isn’t going to have that conversation. She can’t because she does not understand what she is feeling, she can’t handle what she is feeling, and she can’t handle anyone else’s feelings. Do not have any relationship talk. Really, do not have any.

She has made a statement to leave you. Give her time and space. It helps you heal, and is your best chance at a future with her.

She needs to sort out herself. She will probably pull away more. Look after your children, a lot of MLCers become terrible parents. Focus on you and your children. With enough time, she might realize that she is still angry but you are not in the picture so you cannot be the cause. Then she just might look inward to the real cause and start to do the inner work she needs to do. That in a nutshell is your best chance.

During this time you work on you, something I see you have already started. This will not a waste no matter what the outcome is.

This is a marathon not a sprint. You have the gift of time, use it well.

Keep the focus on you and your children.

You will be fine.

I look forward to speaking with you again.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Thanks for the reply and kind words.

------

Living situation - kids nested at home while we stay at friends/family on our days away.

Lawyer - I have spoken to one just as a consult. I got all of my questions answered, and felt relief/confidence walking out.

-------

24 months prior to BD there was a financial crisis in her family. She grew up wealthy, her dad was a doctor and her mom was a stay at home mom. Nice home, nice cabin, nice beach home. Financial needs always met. Mom wore the pants, dad made the bacon. Problem is mom never knew or wanted to know about finances and just spent, and dad was hiding (in plain sight) they were living paycheck to paycheck and had no equity anywhere. He retired and the shell game collapsed. He revealed to mom that they had nothing and crisis ensued.

Wife resented mom for not being accountable, resented dad for not being accountable, and sister for 'taking, taking, taking' all these years as an adult. They reset their lifestyle and found solid ground, but it's a drastically different lifestyle.

I always shared finances, wanted her to be involved and accountable. We are/were doing fine and building a nice nest egg. Wife shared with my mom prior to BD "we never fight about finances."

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with this situation, but it was definitely traumatic for her and I believe she lost some of her identify because of it.

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Sounds like that may have been a trigger for her. The dynamics in her family may have stunted her emotionally as a child. Has she ever stated how her childhood was? The trauma to her which would have stunted her emotionally had to have happened as a child/teenager. Did the parents favor the other sister more than your wife? Where the parents emotionally absent from the children?

MLC isn't easy for anyone. Your wife has to find herself and grow up. You will need to find a way to give her the time and space she needs. Yes, she will try your patience, but dig deeper for patience. If you aren't sure what to do about something, do nothing. Sit quietly and the answers will come. If you have questions, come here and we will help you.

Keep a close eye on your finances, bank accounts and credit cards. If she is in MLC, she will eventually begin spending like water to self medicate herself. Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. Do not try to tell her that she is depressed...she will deny it. Learn to just listen and if she wants a response from you, she will ask you. Be a friend.

Keep the focus on you and your children. They need you now more than ever.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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She had a terrible childhood. Both parents emotionally absent, and mom physically neglected her. Yes, they favored the prom queen/athlete sister. She was the rich kid, but alone. She's been in therapy since high school because of it. She loved my family because we were "normal."

Her and her mom had this ring made for her in high school shortly after we met. She wore it for about a year and hasn't for the last twenty years because she hated it. She wanted to melt it but never got around to it.

Guess what, the ring (after a 20 year absence) is back on.

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Hello Label,

Unfortunately, this is the mantra most of us have heard throughout this process. One important thing to do is figure out what YOU want. She is on a path to self discovery and anyone who gets in its way will be mowed down into oblivion. You have been her must trusted person for quite some time. You will have to quickly adapt to being the blame for all of this and there is no way out. There is no logic or reason, just pure emotion. Avoid emotional talks, the hangover can last for days and any argument will further convince her what she's doing is right. As others have said, giving space, time and being there for the kids will help everyone involved, regardless of the outcome.

Hang in there.

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Good Morning Label

A terrible childhood with emotional absent parents. A recipe for a future disaster.

The MLCer does go back to the time they were emotional stunted. They have to grow up from there.

They will dress, speak, remember, all manner of things - from back then. It is like it was yesterday for them. Your W putting her ring back on for example.

Thank for explaining your current living arrangements. I admit I didn’t get the nesting reference the first time. Are you 50/50? Week on / week off? Or more day by day?

Unfortunately this mess has a large financial component to it. Keep a close eye on your accounts, and ensure you and your kids are financially protected. Some have not and paid dearly. As long as things are going smooth, let it be. Just have a plan ready in case. The excessive spending usually does happen.

Any plans for Easter? Egg hunt, supper?

Stay strong.

DnJ


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We are on a 2-3-3-2 schedule and it’s worked fairly well with the occasional blowup from her.

I’m going to nudge her along to move out and split finances. She’s talked about it for months and I feel this is contributing to her la la land. She has said getting her own place will “sting financially for a while.” I’m like “yeah, forever.”

I’ve continued to play the husband role through this. Ex,. I asked her for her W2 to do the taxes and she had to request another copy cause she “threw it away.” I’ve emotionally detached. I think it’s time to for me to detach from adult duties.

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Props on that schedule. That has to be tough.

The request to move out will undoubtedly bring terror to the situation. You will get blamed for all of her ills and you will be the "reason" she's moving out. My W was having a full blown affair, coming home at all hours of the night. After several weeks I decided to move out. Guess who got the blame for breaking up a family?

In addition to blame, be ready for that tiny violin regarding children, finances, etc...

They do not like dealing with the consequences of their decisions.

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Hello Label

I am glad you have a fair and even schedule. It is good for you, her, and the kids. It also sets the history of what has been going on, in case more legal arrangements need to be made in the future.

Oh my goodness. Taxes. MLCers are like teens. My XW just had a shoebox of receipts, and forms. No organization, no structure, she just took it to an accountant. By the way, her job(s) is mowing grass, shovelling snow, and cleaning houses for various people around town. I doubt she earns enough to break the threshold to even have to pay income tax.

Before this, she ran a daycare. After BD, she got hired at the hospital. Her reputation of 24 years being a stand up Mom and daycare provider most definitely preceded her. Regular hours, good wage, and benefits. She quit. Told them she wanted to be able to take a day off when she felt like it. (She may have been fired, not exactly sure which party terminated employment).

As for nudging W along to move out. This is where this forum can shine. Do exactly what you just did. Bring it here first and let others give input before you make a decision or act on it.

As a general rule, do not do anything to try to manipulate her or her journey. There are many good reasons for this. Manipulating keeps you attached and stuck. Another is whatever outcome happens - if it is bad, do you want that on your hands? Leaving her to her path is best - for her and YOU.

Your idea of nudging her to move out and split finances is stated as you feel it is contributing to her la la land. For a rational person - yes. For her - no. This is counterintuitive.

She is in la la land because she is driven to be there. She is after her fantasy. She doesn’t know what it is, but she keeps running towards it. She will expend incredible energies to maintain her fantasy. DO NOT get in her way. That is a sure fire way to get a heap of justifications thrown at you.

She will use that against you. Blame you. Bait you into further conflict, furthering her justification of her new life away from you. Remember, she needs space and time to see her pain comes from within, not from you. Moved out or not, she will be in la la land.

Focus on you.

Label, do you want to move out? Do you want to find a new place for yourself?

I am not looking for a definitive answer. Look within yourself and ask what do I want? Then wait for a bit, and keep moving forward. I guarantee your answers will look differently later on when you are further down your path.

I can see and understand your frustration. Just breathe, you have time.

Originally Posted by Label
This will sound like I'm in denial, but it just doesn't feel over. I want her back, but then I think maybe I'm chasing a mirage that isn't there.

Label, I will give open, honest, compassionate advice every time as best as I can.

You have some work to do, and I am willing to help.

I want her back. Get to where you want her to want you. Loosen your grip on her. Any pressure and she will bolt.

Doesn’t feel over. So very true. Feelings are real and fleeting. They are irrational, that is not insane, or bad, it just means not based on logic and reason. They are feelings. And as such, hard to see with. Your relationship is over, your feeling are just not aware of it. The relationship may someday be rebuilt, if you give space and time, and do the inner work. No matter what happens, you will alright and be a better person for all the work.

Denial is a tough thing for one to see. Being truly in denial is when your mind is hiding the truth from you to protect your emotional state from damage. It is healthy and required. Being accurate in thought, feelings, and the describing of such will illuminate and help one move from denial and through the stages of grief.

Please consider being patient with your desire to have her move out. Give it more time. Let her come to that conclusion on her own, if that is her path.

How did you plan on nudging her?

Are you ok with the current nesting arrangement?

Anything you do, ensure you are doing it for you. What do you think and feel about you moving back into the house full time?

Let’s not worry about where she is at, or if she is stuck. Let’s ensure you get to where you should to be at, and you don’t get stuck. She can figure out her own path.

Label, you are the most important person in all this. Focus on you and heal.

DnJ


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Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Nudge was probably the wrong word. Enable her move out is probably something closer to what I mean. See she wants to move out but just can’t do it - either it’s the rental market is just bad or she doesn’t want to buy a house because she wants all of us to relocate to this new city, summer kid plans with nanny are complicated , etc.

You make a really good point. If I do anything to bring her to her new life it will have strings attached to me, and thus I will to be to blame if the future doesn’t work out.

So am I to let her take the lead and make the first move? She’s waiting for me to take control because that is what she’s relied on me forever to do. I can do that but want to be very cautious here.

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In regards to denial - I get it. This one is over. It took months to get there but I am there.

I really just want to move on and get off the crazy train. I can’t fix this and it’s becoming toxic being in it.

Kids told me out of the blue tonight that “mom cries a lot.” Ugh

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In my sitch , W was going to absolutely pull the wool and screw me financially. I got suspicious, went on the offensive and moved out first. When moving, I found some paperwork that confirmed she was planning on putting the screws to me. Point is, nothing should surprise you. A monster has filled the shoes of the one you've known all along.

Since out, I've been able to successfully detach. You are correct, if you get sucked in/have sympathy, you will go down in flames along with her, and she'd be happy to bring you there. The MLC frame of mind brings relentless stamina on her part. She will crush you. It's best if one of you reach a decision......it'll likely be you.

Taking the lead with anything in regards to her......you will be labeled a control freak and push her away. Do for yourself only.

With regards to her crying, it will happen frequently. If it still hits you emotionally, you are not detached.

One thing that helped me was a book called the 48 Laws of Power. There are YouTube snippets of each law. Some are sadistic, but the general theme can help you in this as well as business and personal relationships.

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I'm not making excuses for any of the crisis people, but sometimes, they scream that they want a divorce or are going to move out as a way to get you, the lbs, to back off. For example, when my xh was threatening to move out, I listened for a bit and one day, I had had enough of that mess. So, I called his bluff and told him that I thought it would be a good idea that he moved out...what did he do? He sat up on the couch and cried his tears. He said he was so confused and didn't know what to do. It took him another week or two before he disappeared while I was at work.

They truly do not know what they want. They are seeking relief from the misery deep within their souls. We don't see it, but they are in a lot of pain. Pain, that we would never want to experience. Yes, they can become vindictive along the way and the anger will build. That is when you need to step outside the ring and allow them to fight with themselves. If she says something, say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away, do not engage in a fight. They want and need justification for what they are doing. If they don't get the justification, it just might make them think a little bit.

Hang in there.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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In one of our therapy sessions months ago I did ask about the running (mistake!). I got rage and fury like I’ve never seen “you’re the only one who doesn’t think I’m a runner, I’ve been a runner my whole life, I was recruited in high school to run the 2 mile!!”

I chuckled, I couldn’t help it. The therapist smirked.

It is hard to fathom someone going back mentally 20 years. How is that possible. It’s also somewhat fascinating.

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Hello Label

It is fascinating, when we can step back and look at it, isn’t it?

We’ve all had something similar. How many times have you replayed bomb drop in your head? A pretty significant and traumatic event in your life. We replay it, over and over, turning it around and around, until we come to terms with it, and finally accept what it is. Realize our part, and more importantly, realize what parts are not ours.

This is where a MLCer is at. Having a deep trauma from their past looming in front of them. They can’t face it, but it is there nonetheless. Their minds and emotions are forced back, unable not to relive that event(s). Unable to handle the pain, they run!

The LBS does grows from this, from our event, and any past event(s) this stirs up. Some do enter MLC themselves, BD is a big trigger, and depending on what is hidden and unknown within them, and how well their coping skills are, will affect their path. Most, however, transition relatively well; becoming better people.

The MLCer’s damage is such that a full blown crisis happens; and all h@ll break loose in their lives. Their poor minds are trapped in a past they do not want to visit.

If one can accept and understand this; one can chose and walk a compassionate and forgiving path.

DnJ

Last edited by job; 04/21/19 09:35 PM. Reason: edited a word

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DnJ you have written so well on this issue.
From all the forum posts from other members, you seem to have captured the essence of what I think is going on with my wife as well. I love reading your posts on other members threads.
Hamburg, great writing as well.

Noticing that many of you are freshly out of D yourselves. Mine is wrapping up.
Wondering if we have anyone's perspecive on what follows 1-2 or 5 years into it.

Anyone "live to tell" what is was like afterwards.
Did the MLC wife enter nervous collapse and realize what happened. Do they ever grow, heal, see the light so to say.

Lately as I go to bed each night that is what occupies my mind. My wife and child are moving out this week. I will see them only on predetermined dates. MLC, rage, blaming me (clone of your wives story basically).
What follows in their new life?

Wonder if we have any older threads, would love to read any info.


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I am probably the longest running poster here. I had the BD in 1999 and he divorced me in 2002. My xh was one angry man for about 6 years. During that time he married his affair partner who was a year younger than me and could have passed as his mother's sister. He was in full replay until his affair partner/wife passed away in 2013. When my BIL was killed, my xh came out of the woodwork and called me and then right after the funeral was asking for things out of the house...now mind you, we were divorced 3 years prior to my BIL's death. His affair partner/wife passed away on the same day as our wedding anniversary. Again, very nice and appeared to be getting himself together. He is now living w/another ow in CO. He has aged considerably and has begun to lose some of the weight that he packed on from years of partying and boozing.

He reconnected w/his family for a very short period of time in 2013 and now has basically ghosted all but his only brother. He's wiped the slate clean of everyone and is living in another fantasy world where people in CO do not know him or his past.

I stated many years ago that he would not recover from this because this man will never admit that he's done anything wrong. Rip Van Winkle continues to sleep in his safe little cocoon. Some never recover and become angry old men or old men/teenagers that others shake their heads at. Such a shame.

As for me, I moved forward, several promotions, paid my house and car off and I am now debt free. It was a relief when the divorce was finalized and the huge weight that I was carrying, i.e., wondering at any time what he would try to do next, etc. I have since retired and am enjoying my life. The experience was an open wound until the divorce was finalized, the scar is healed nicely and yes, I forgave him for his behavior and lack of sanity.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I replayed BD for a long time - beat the h@ll out of myself. I certainly would have done some things differently and have made those changes. In the beginning I prayed that it was an affair. That would hurt like h@ll but I could grab onto it. As the months passed, little by little I started to realize this was so much more than anything I ever did. I think that is one of the hardest parts of MLC, it takes times and tidbits of signs to get a diagnosis. It’s the opposite of a straight forward affair. It’s Alzheimer’s, not a broken arm.

Another therapy session tidbit - she complained that “I was quiet” on a day trip 15 years ago. I barely recall the day, and she has an open wound from it. Then you think how many wounds she has from mundane stuff and realize she has zero coping skills and has been grinning and bearing it forever.

As far as LBS strength - I could pull the space shuttle on the Moon with a rope without a space suit. I have my bad days, still do, but I am even more centered and grounded than before.

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They will remember things from the past that you have forgotten about. Yes, their memory is somewhat like an Alzheimer's patient. It is all about the past and what they had in the present is slowly fading away and buried deep within their soul for a very long time.

It's interesting how they never tell the lbs about the things that bother them or that they are unhappy until the BD. MLC takes a long time to build up to, but if they haven't been able to navigate their teens, early 20's and 30's, then a serious MLC will surely come about.

It really isn't about you or what you've said or done. It's their journey to take and you weren't invited on that journey w/them. Be glad that you weren't. It's a very painful and emotional one for them. They lash out at the ones that they love because they know that we are stronger than they are and can take it. Dig deeper for patience. Learn as much as you can about depression and MLC.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Job - debt free, woo hoo! That was my goal too but I'm still shy of that goal - an unexpected several extra years of paying for kids' colleges slowed that down, plus some other things.

But I'm positioned to be ok retiring even if I don't get my house paid off (mortgage payment is relatively small, and my house is worth 3 times what I still owe). I don't plan to retire yet but it's good knowing I could.

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My W sat me down for 20 minutes and lambasted me for the way I chew, comb my hair, wear my socks, park my car crooked in the garage, etc.
... the strangest thing was something I said on a date 14 years ago. Then something I wore to a party 8 years ago. The MLC mind is something medical science could study, and I'm sure funding would run out.
It is bizarre and you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

BD may haunt you for a while. You'll get to a point in which you don't get emotional over it. There may always be wonderment about if your actions/reactions may have changed things. But when you see this process play out you'll discover nothing can change the course.

Stay strong. You're doing well.

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Originally Posted by Hamburg
My W sat me down for 20 minutes and lambasted me for the way I chew, comb my hair, wear my socks, park my car crooked in the garage, etc.
... the strangest thing was something I said on a date 14 years ago. Then something I wore to a party 8 years ago. The MLC mind is something medical science could study, and I'm sure funding would run out.
It is bizarre and you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

BD may haunt you for a while. You'll get to a point in which you don't get emotional over it. There may always be wonderment about if your actions/reactions may have changed things. But when you see this process play out you'll discover nothing can change the course.

Stay strong. You're doing well.


My w didn't go back that far but she def had some weird things. You dont travel enough she said thats why im done with our marriage cause u dont travel enough. Then another was a year ago we were at the gym together and she was talking to some guy and dancing to the music that was playing and came back by me to get on the treadmill. I remember i said something but i made a joke about her dancing not her flirting with some dude. She brought that up and said remember that time at gym you made a joke when i was talking to that guy thats just who i am she said. I didn't say a word about ya and you were legit flirting witha guy right in front of my face. They really do have some crazy things they remember/say . it truly is incredible.

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jobs, thanks for sharing your situation.
Wow, seems like your spouse was really in it for the long run if not a permanent state of mind.
Hope mine recovers quicker as she is dragging our kid with her. For his sake.

As to the old memories and little things they complained about I also have them.
Seems once she has painted me as the bad guy, she will try to find anything that sticks to support her theory.
Another thing my IC told me is not to pay attention to those things they say. They are lies, not the real issue.
They are - most of the time- in the throws of another fantasy love life (affair) and will say anything.
The IC actually told me he laughs inside when he hears spouses complain about the way their partner combs their hair, cause he knows they have lost love and respect for that person and are most likely in another love.


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Hello Label

How are you doing? How are the kids?

DnJ


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Oh I'm good, thanks for asking. Just living my life without worry of her or hers. She still wants a D and keeps asking for me to schedule time with a mediator. I've asked her to separate finances, but she seems to be reluctant and isn't doing anything about that. In general, anything that is a To Do on her list for me is micromanaged and anything I ask her To Do doesn't get done or even looked at.

She is definitely h@llbent on a D. I just wonder what will happen when that day comes and her problems aren't solved.

She does seem much calmer. We seem to be out of the anger stage which was about six months of nastiness, but then again I haven't given or engaged in anything that could be turned into a tiff. I'm just done with that.

It's those little odd things though -
- this weekend she asked me to fix our electric fence since she can't seem to keep our dog in the yard. Even though she is actively looking at rentals and doesn't want the dog. I'm like "why do you care, aren't you outta here?"
- some weeks she will put a kids activities on my calendar, other times just on hers.
- txt/emails are sometimes incoherent.

Kids are good. My son started flag football today. I signed up to be the coach, knowing it was the only way to get him on the field. He loved it. We had a great time together.

I do wish she would stop buffing her face with chemical peels and laser treatment. It's not helping.


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Hello Label

Glad to hear from you.

Originally Posted by Label
In general, anything that is a To Do on her list for me is micromanaged and anything I ask her To Do doesn't get done or even looked at.

Yeah, that sounds about typical. Their minds are like Swiss cheese. Something they want is most important, everything else - hardly a thought. It shows up in those little things, incoherent texts, half done schedules, and such.

You are so correct, what happens when her divorce doesn’t solve her problems. Still, not much you can do, she is hellbent on a D, just let her do the heavy lifting.

I am glad your son joined flag football, and you decided to coach. I’m sure it will be a lot of fun for both of you.

Originally Posted by Label
I do wish she would stop buffing her face with chemical peels and laser treatment. It's not helping.

Lol. OMG. Isn’t that the truth.

They seem to get stuck on something, like chemical peels, and become obsessive towards them, towards the benefits of whatever it is.

My W obsessively took up exercising. Getting up two hours early, and working out. Riding her bike all day. Working in the garden all day. She wore herself down to a thin little woman - far too skinny and unhealthy. Something to do with pushing off mortality, in her poor mind.

They do a lot in the pursuit of youth, and lose so much in the process.

DnJ


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My husband spent 3300 US$ for member ship of a gym, bought a lot of outfitter that are ugly(sorry), own money to the bank and have to pay the interest... he went wild, want to make new friends, young boys and girls, go party, drinking all weekend. Honestly, I would laugh at this man if he is not my husband, but I was grieving cause I hardly recognized my husband at that time

Label, focus on you and the children, get a life, give her time/space !

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Update on my situation -

She moved out to rental down the street. Signed a lease for a year. It’s much less of a house than ours. I’ve been on the road for a full year, almost to the day of BD. So we’re starting our new normal.

I was a little taken aback that she moved so close. I feel boundaries are going to be an issue.

She now follows a bunch of narcissist hashtags on IG. So this went from:

-ILWYBINILWU on BD to...
-I don’t hate you I’m just done - for a couple months to...
-Spewing anger - for a few months to...
-We’re still a family just a different looking family - for a few months to...
-A narcissist manipulator she just just discovered she had been living with for 20 years.

She wanted space, then she wanted me to chase; I loved you for so long, then we were never a good match.

It’s as if she’s cycling between wanting to “be cool” with the breakup and just move on, and needing to hold onto the anger to justify the actions.

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Label

If it is any comfort

I have heard and lived through all those cycles

Remember that in the moment she says it

She probably really feels it

This is where listening and validating and detaching help you

I learned to keep my mouth shut and listen

She wants to be heard

Do not argue

Stay strong and steady


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2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Hey there.

I got BD almost nine years ago after a 25 year marriage.

I was reading your sitch and just wanted to chime in.

Believe it or not, my XW also started to run after "always being a runner."

As for all the terrible things that you supposedly did, don't feel bad. My XW accused me of:

1. Never taking her to the right grocery store. - Seriously. This was her NUMBER ONE reason.
2. I never got a vasectomy.
3. I wouldn't let her adopt a daughter from China. (We had four boys.)
4. Everything had to be done on my schedule. (I was the only one working.....duh? I worked. She was a stay at home mom by choice.)
5. I never let her dress the way that she wanted.

Also, getting married was the worst day of her life and we should have NEVER married blah blah blah.

My point is, they are all CRAZY in their own special way, but also identical too. So identical that it is almost word for word.

Almost every vet here (if not all) has heard everything you have and has been accused of everything you have. This is serious stuff.

Stay strong and hold on tight. It is a long ride.

Tad

Last edited by tadpole1025; 05/24/19 12:51 AM.

Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Update on my situation (16 months into this) -

- she's done a few pop-ins and walks in the house (and upstairs), I let it go.
- still says "we" all the time.
- lost her mind a couple times that "I won't talk to her!" I told her I'm open to talking any time (I'm just not going to start the conversation unless I need something).
- still wants to go to Disney World "as a family." I'm conflicted about that one.
- she's still seeing a therapist a couple times a month, and an intuitive.
- recently we talked about a few things and I asked if she was happy, she said "I am." She asked if I was and I said "I am - some things are better, some things aren't"...she welled up and left.

We're still married, been to four mediators in eight months and she just can't find one she likes. I'm like - our finances, property, assets, and custody are split. All we have to do is re-balance retirement accounts and file. We're basically done, I don't get it.

As for me I still have a down day here and there, but overall feel like I'm doing really well. I've detached. Work is great, having fun with friends (and by myself), kids are great, and I got a girlfriend.

Sixteen months in we still haven't talked about why we are here, but I've accepted that is probably not happening.

Appreciate any thoughts...

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Let's face it, she's a confused bunny and can't figure out what she truly wants. She wants her fun and yet, she wants you right where she left you in case things don't work out. Evidently, she's not ready to pull the plug on the marriage and maybe she's not hearing what she wants to hear from the mediators either.

I hope she gets herself together, but this might be a long haul for you since she's not ready to file. You sound great. You will need to know when you are ready to end it officially...until then, continue as you have been.


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Divorced.

"It's time to move on, time to get going
What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing
But under my feet, baby, grass is growing
It's time to move on, it's time to get going"

-Tom Petty

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Sorry yet happy it’s done - right? Hope your life is going well.

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Label, I hope it's been a good journey.

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Hello L

It’s a mixed bitter sweet emotional release when the divorce is final. Happy and sad at the same time. It’s ok, and perfectly normal.

I believe no matter how much one wanted a D or needed it, the finale of the marriage still has an affect. The stirred emotions will settle.

I do hope you are living your great life.

D


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