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Originally Posted by peacetoday
Honesty is best and I always said a positive word about their dad-he was a good man- just got sick in MLC..no ones fault ect


The thing is, Peace, is that I don't know if he if I could say he is just "sick". Maybe it's just a character flaw. After all, he was unfaithful to me for most of our married life, at least 3/4 of it.....in some form or another. Yes, we had lots of good things about our marriage - when he was engaged in it. I do believe, however, that he was profoundly damaged by his adoption into an emotionally vacant home. But, saying he if "going through a MLC" or "he's just so depressed" seems like a lie to me. I've been using the words depressed when they ask me about him (which I truly believe he is). At this point it's hard to come up with anything positive about him. He does the lawn every week, and he continues to provide for me financially. That's about it. It's so sad.

But I agree that honestly answering direct questions is the way to go. I will let the kiddos lead any further discussions.

But to answer your first question. I'm doing quite well! I've got lots of activities, friends, and purpose. My faith has been a tremendous help, too. All in all....

Life is good.


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I tried to be as honest as possible without concerning the kids

They have their lives to live and cant be concerned with a dad such as my XH

I would say things to my kids like sometimes people get sick, some get better-
We can pray for him

If he gets better we will hear from him, If not, it is for the best-and we wish him the best

In my situation , he left so we just let go after the first 2 years-


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Hello Grace

I understand your uncertainty, questioning, the feeling that this seems like a lie. My XW could have been unfaithful for a while too, I just don’t have the knowledge or proof that you do. Thing is emotional healthy people don’t do that.

So, maybe don’t worry about MLC - the mid life part. H is in crisis, and may have been long before mid life. His coping skills and mechanism is stunted. The typical MLCer finds a way to compensate or hide it for a while, then at midlife - boom. Perhaps H just couldn’t hide it very well, his quiet lead up stage was just longer and more predominant than most.

He has to be depressed. However, they really run from their pain and hide it well - from themselves. This of course makes it very hard to see what is really going on. They are pretending, and acting out a fantasy. You do have to take a bit on faith here, a little leap of faith, and a belief of his torment even when it is not readily apparent.

Are you remaining snoop free? It is a difficult thing to let go of.

Originally Posted by Grace21
At this point it's hard to come up with anything positive about him.

Yeah, that one does hit a bit hard doesn’t it.

(((Grace)))

You don’t need to come up with anything positive. You don’t need to come up with anything negative. You don’t need to come up with anything. Just see the truth and accept, that is what you are working on. As odd as this will sound, more will be revealed to you when you are not looking for it. Focus on you, and kids. Things will be revealed and make sense through patience.

Originally Posted by Grace21
But to answer your first question. I'm doing quite well! I've got lots of activities, friends, and purpose. My faith has been a tremendous help, too.

Exactly! All the above uncertainty and pondering is healthy and part of doing quite well. It is part of letting go. Seeing and accepting. And there isn’t much positive to see from him. Something to accept.

Originally Posted by Grace21
All in all....

Life is good.

Yes it is girl! Glad you see that.

DnJ


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I believe you are correct, DnJ, that H’s crisis has been building up, slowly and gradually for years. He was able to live his double life – the life of a married man who was (often) content if not completely happy, and the life that allowed him to escape when the demons got too close. In the end, he couldn’t recover from the last attempt to feel good, and that’s when I ultimately asked him to most out. He just had nothing left to give me.

Originally Posted by DnJ
He has to be depressed. However, they really run from their pain and hide it well - from themselves.


He has admitted to me many times since he moved out that he is depressed. But, he is choosing to do nothing about it. Perhaps his current actions are pushing him into deeper depression. Maybe the result of that is his almost complete lack of communication with me and the kids. He really has fallen off the radar. Only a few very brief text messages over the past 3 or 4 weeks.


Originally Posted by DnJ
Are you remaining snoop free? It is a difficult thing to let go of.


Not 100%, but improved. Haven’t looked at phone records or did any internet searches in almost a week. Still look at FB once in a while, but I stopped OWs FB page.


Originally Posted by DnJ
As odd as this will sound, more will be revealed to you when you are not looking for it. Focus on you, and kids. Things will be revealed and make sense through patience.


I can’t imagine what could be revealed when I am not looking for it. But, I will wait until God decides to do it. His timing, not mine.

Originally Posted by DnJ
All the above uncertainty and pondering is healthy and part of doing quite well. It is part of letting go. Seeing and accepting. And there isn’t much positive to see from him. Something to accept.


Yes. I can feel that happening. There was something that came across my FB today. Maybe not 100%, yet, but when I read it I said to myself “Yes!”.

“And then it happens...One day you wake up and you’re in this place. You’re in this place where everything feels right. Your heart is calm. Your soul is lit. Your thoughts are positive. Your vision is clear. Your faith in God is stronger than ever. And you’re at peace. At peace with where you’ve been. At peace with what you’ve been through. And at peace with where you’re headed…”


I felt compelled to repost it, with the following bible verse.

(Jesus to his disciples at the end of the Passover meal three days before his death)
“I am leaving you with a gift- peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don't be troubled or afraid. John 14:27

I wondered very briefly if H would see it, and what he would think about it. I do not know if he follows me on FB, and I didn’t re-post it for H. I just saw so much joy, peace and hope in it, I felt compelled to share it.

Tonight I will be going to Maundy Thursday service, and will reflect on how much Jesus has changed me over the last 7 months. I hope I can share some of HIS wisdom, peace and love with H some day. But, my faith journey is not for H, it’s for me.


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Originally Posted by DnJ
The confusion they exhibited at the beginning is evendence of their two worlds both being active in their minds. As time goes on, the MLCer usually pulls away. This is when they are becoming more and more wrapped up in their crisis, and the LBS gets less and less thought. As they run further into the tunnel, they question their actions less.

Now during quiet times for them, those questions and uncertainties come back, the demons come back. So, I believe most question if what they are doing is right. And they answer - Yes. It is right.

They have rewritten history, have justifications, and will use whatever they need, to maintain their fantasy. They are driven to run from their pain; which doesn’t promote much self-reflection for them. As life, karma, piles on problems they cannot run from so easily, they are forced to question, and to grow.


This was posted on another thread, and I wanted to comment on it without hijacking their thread. This gives me a lot of clarity with what might be happening in my own sitch now. H is becoming more and more distant. Showing up at the house to do the yardwork only when he knows I won’t be home, no messages this week at all. I can sense from afar his further pulling away. What’s interesting to me is I now seem to also be moving into more detachment. I hope my detachment continues.

I do feel deep within that I should just send a brief message to him to see how he is doing periodically. I even discussed this with my IC a few months ago, and she thought it would be fine. I believe you can’t ere when it comes to concern and compassion.

Anyway, I did just that a week ago. He said “OK. Good days and bad days”. I did not respond further. No communication since. Now, to be clear, I wasn’t expecting any. So, perhaps H is moving into the next stage. I think I have to look those up again. I’m sure his demons do still pop up, but as wth anything it tends to affect us less and less as time goes on. He may feel less and less guilty about all that’s occurred (or the feelings are buried more deeply), and feel that moving on is the right thing to do for him. Time will tell.

So, I made a big blunder today. I was sending him another brief “just checking to see how you are doing” note on FB. I didn’t even start typing, and hearts started flying. I must have by accident touched the heart. It always shows up as a quick option. I’m mortified! So, I just sent a message saying I was just sending a quick message to see how you were doing. The heart was an accident, so I don’t want you to be panicked or pressured. I didn’t know what else to do!!! I know usually fewer words is best, but I felt I needed to clarify! I certainly don’t want him thinking I’m trying to lure him in or am pining for him, which I definitely am not.

Maybe that’s a sign to completely leave him alone. I think it’s time.


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Good Morning Grace

You see your situation with good clarity. Yes, H is trying to escape his demons and just has nothing left to give you. He can’t handle his own feelings and thoughts, so he pushes everyone and everything away. He will most likely fall off the radar for some time.

My XW was sort of involved for about 2 months after BD. She attempted the obligatory visiting of her children, like a Mom should want to do. She just couldn’t take it or fake it - it was obvious. After that first Christmas she faded away and has remained pretty silent; coming up on 19 months. She has never told the kids or me about her surprise divorce wrangling, and no one has brought it up to her. She is reaching out to the kids a bit more lately, nothing of substance just some little contact. All the kids are kind and compassionate, and do respond to the small talk, even though it does repeat - she asks the same questions over and over again, that Swiss cheese mind.

Snooping:

Originally Posted by Grace21
Not 100%, but improved. Haven’t looked at phone records or did any internet searches in almost a week. Still look at FB once in a while, but I stopped OWs FB page.

Excellent!

Really good that you stopped (blocked right?) OW’s FB page. Using technology to your advantage is really helpful, in a moment of strengthful resolve just block her. You can do that to H as well, and you will when your ready.

The phone records are interesting and do have a pull. Along with GPS on our phones and all manner of other snoop-abilities. Why is his cell phone on your bill? Just a thought to consider. He can look after his own cell phone and bill, and then you cannot see it. I was lucky, didn’t seem like it at the time, XW wanted her cell phone off my bill so I could not know what she was up to. Just like a angry rebellious teenager, and she still doesn’t want anyone knowing what she is doing.

Originally Posted by Grace21
I can’t imagine what could be revealed when I am not looking for it. But, I will wait until God decides to do it. His timing, not mine.

Oh, that is such a profound and truthful statement - it will have much different meaning to you later.

I promise you, a much better, gentle, peaceful, and forgiving future is available. You just can’t force it. It will be revealed when you are calm, and not really looking for it.

Let’s discuss not snooping a bit more, to somewhat illustrate this. By the way, this applies to all aspects of our lives, not just the not snooping; so bare with me I try not to ramble. smile

You are working on breaking a habit, to change a behaviour. Certainly a difficult task, especially with such emotional ties and reinforcing feedbacks.

A while ago I mentioned how I started living a gentle peaceful life by just gently closing the cupboard door. I hope you remember.

Tackling habits and behaviour head on has its place and successes. However, how one tackles them is the key. So please do the following for me:

Don’t think of elephants, with their large gray ears, and long trunks. Don’t see their skinny tails swishing flies away. And definitely don’t think of a blue elephant with green spots, and the size of a mouse, running across the floor in front of you.

Of course you thought of all that. Our brains have to realize what it is that we don’t want to think about, so we can know what we are not wanting to know. You can see why a direct - “Don’t do this” - approach is next to impossible to achieve.

I might as well point out something else too.

“Try not to snoop.”

The word “try” sets one up for failure. Our minds are incredible powerful - it creates your reality. No doubt about that. If it is in your mind it real - to you.

And yet our powerful minds, at times, are easily lead by suggestion. The word try will lead you. It preconditions and pre-accepts that you probably will not achieve whatever you are “trying” to do. Your powerful mind will make that a reality. If you “Try to run up the stairs while holding your breath”, you will run out of breath - mostly because you fore-decided that it is not really possible but you would try.

The negative part of suggestive thoughts is also problematic. Try not to, don’t - that kind of thing. Don’t think of elephants. Try not to snoop. Our minds don’t do - “not”, they do - “do”. Our minds create, they actively think and pursue, they do not - do “not”. Even ignoring is an active function.

This is where being accurate in thought and heart really shines. Knowing and expressing in a positive manner.

This is also where language and thought diverge. Your inner dialog is different than conversation with others, than suggestions to others. We need to use “try” and “don’t” so the other person, even ourselves, can see what it is we are attempting to do. However, internally we need to say it in a different manner. “Run up the stairs while holding you breath” has a much better chance of success; it looks and sounds attainable. If you don’t make it with out taking a breath it is because you actually ran out of oxygen and needed to. Big difference.

The positive manner I mentioned. That is more thinking in affirmation, than seeing it in a good light. A lot of this situation, our interacting with the MLCer, is dark, negative, and unwanted - look at it in a positive affirming manner, see the accurate picture. Yes it is painful and accurate. I know you understand this, it is key to detachement and you have that understanding really well. (By the way, indifference brings peace, and you don’t even look their way anymore. You really do focus on you).

“Try not to snoop”.

Ok. First do or do not - there is no try. Really good movie, and really wise words.

Second drop the “not”, the negative approach. Find a positive approach.

Third drop the snoop reference because it just reminds and reinforces your wanting to snoop.

That is all the internal thought stuff. Turn all that into actions. You are breaking a habit (notice I didn’t said trying to break a habit). You are changing your behaviour.

Focus on you and find actions that move you forward. You progress, you let go, you break habits, you heal. All at the same time. The most efficient way is a direct line from where you are to your headings, your goals. Forgiveness.

Do block OW.

Remove H from phone bill.

Try not to search the internet. (Nope)

Do not search the internet. (Better, but no)

Crochet those shawls for the mission trip. (Yes!)

Bake that loaf of bread. And tell DnJ all about it. (I really want to hear how it tastes. It’s texture, colour, smell, and flavour. Hard crunchy crust or soft and thin? Oh my goodness I could really go for some fresh baked bread right now.)

Things will be revealed when you are not really looking for them. You are correct it is hard to imagine the profound changes that await. One is having no desire or need to snoop. Imagine just how wonderful and freeing that will be.

The really big one, which you are making huge gains on, acceptance. It is coming, just have to let it arrive.

We only control ourselves, our thoughts, actions, and responses. Such needed advice when first starting to detach. It is still true, and needed.

You have direct control on only your thoughts, the intellectual car. Emotions, physical wellness, and spiritual being are only influenced by our conscious thoughts, not directly controlled. The more at peace and calm we become the more influence we can exert, and the more success we have in altering our emotional and spiritual state. It looks like control, however it is not, it is just good thinking. It is a wonderful place when you can turn on and off your “feelings” for your spouse or ex spouse. Realizing you don’t control it, gives you a mechanism to alter your state (almost control). Honest, I can do it in well under a minute now.

Grace, I do care about you, and you are doing so very well. You listen to advice, you question, you work towards understanding, and you have great goals. I have much more I am willing to share, and am willing to discuss - even though the posts do tend towards greater length. Ah hell, I write a lot - your worth it. smile

Fearlessness. How are your fears? What are you fearful of? What have you uncoupled from and accepted? (I’d say overcome but that is not accurate) Is anything holding you back? Don’t fear! Lol. Be fearless! Nothing you say will be wrong. (See what I meant, the use of don’t has a purpose in language, and is different in your mind)

Your journey is for you.

H’s journey is for him.

Love him enough to let him go. Love him enough to forgive.

DnJ


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Grace

I see I missed your post while I was typing mine.

I am glad you found that other post useful.

H still doing yard work only when you are not around. He feels the pull of his old life, but can’t handle what he has done or is doing. Emotional turmoil. Leave him to it. That sounds mean, until you understand and realize that is the most compassionate thing you can do for him.

Sending a brief message every once and a while. Hmmm. Basically anything you do, or don’t do, will not affect his path. And paradoxically everything you do, will affect it.

I think most IC are there for you. That makes sense, you are seeing them. They will give you advice for you. Unfortunately you, me, and many of us here, are in a situation with limited understanding or belief from the professional world.

H needs time and space.

If he reaches out, and you can handle it, by all means respond kindly and briefly. Letting him control the pace ensures he is capable of handling the emotions that will stir up within him.

You reaching out periodically is fine, but has some possible drawbacks. It keeps you on his radar when he has stated and demonstrated that he needs to leave. Of course you asked him to move out. To be caringly blunt with a very good friend: I think this is a point you need to accept, to lose your fear over, and to forgive yourself for. (((Grace)))

I still remember some advice you gave me “You don’t worry about the harshness, you want advice on how to get through this and get to the other side”. Pretty wise of you, and a good expectation to tell me. It woke me up a little, to be honest.

Another drawback with periodical messages from you, is it keeps him on your radar.

H needs time and space.

What does Grace need?

I think dim is a good approach. Let him choose when you two converse.

I believe H is still in replay. If there is an OW, he is in replay. However, it is a good idea to read back on the stages again. We all need a certain level of understanding to move forward. And then more understanding to move more again.

The hearts slip up on the message, it’s ok. Mortified! The shock, the panic. I was right there as I was reading along. Thank you for sharing. Showing vulnerabilities is healing and helpful. You had a slip and a wonderful sincere (gasp in shock of what I’ve done) response. I found it beautiful to tell the truth. I am looking at it as a window into you, and nothing to do with what H thinks or now wonders (or not) about.

It is a sign, the meaning of which will be revealed when you aren’t looking for it. Trust this. The sign is also not what you are thinking it is. I’m not being coy or purposefully opaque about this, for no reason. Let this incident go. Give it over to God. I promise your subconscious will be mulling this over, and when you least expect it, you will be given an answer.

DnJ


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I actually just stopped by here to give a quick update that H actually responded to my message about the heart. He replied: “I didn’t. TY”. Not sure what the TY is for, but for me it can put the matter to rest.

Then I see Dnj’s posts. DnJ – do you have any idea how much I value your input? It’s thoughtful, useful, meaningful, and helpful. So, THANK YOU! I will take a moment to reply on just a few things, because I want to reread a few times and think about it.

Originally Posted by DnJ
The word “try” sets one up for failure. Our minds are incredible powerful - it creates your reality. No doubt about that. If it is in your mind it real - to you. .


This is so very true, and I do practice this in other areas of my life. I am definitely a “glass half full” kind of gal, and people tell me all the time that they love how I am so positive. I think this inherent positive attitude is partly what keeps me at peace. I’ve been weak in applying it in this aspect of my life. “Try” definitely sets one up for failure. I will change…….


Originally Posted by DnJ
If he reaches out, and you can handle it, by all means respond kindly and briefly. Letting him control the pace ensures he is capable of handling the emotions that will stir up within him. .


I think this is sage advice, and will take it. His trips to the house as if a ghost, pulling away from his kids and certainly me, says volumes. He doesn’t want us in his life now. His reasons are his, and my genuine concern for him will not change this.

As for blocking OW. I did that long ago, but I can/could still see what she puts up for public view. If there is a way to never see even public things, I don’t know how to do it. With that said. I won’t go to her page at all. (did I say that right, DnJ???) smile

As for taking H off the phone. All our bills are still joint – auto insurance, phone, electric, gas, etc. I plan to leave it alone for now. He hasn’t even gotten an apartment yet. Just staying in airbnbs. He can't even commit to signing a lease anywhere. Maybe that will change May 1. Who knows? For now I plan to let him drive how detached he wants to be from our previous life. I might change my mind next month or never, but I’m not there yet.

H came over again today while I was at work. This is the second week in a row he did not message me saying he was coming over. Months ago I asked if he would just let me know when he planned on stopping over. It felt odd to me to arrive home knowing he was in the house. I have nothing to hide, and he can snoop all he wants and won’t find anything, but it just bugs me. Almost like a violation. It’s not a strong feeling, but there. So, do I remind him to please let me know if he plans on stopping over? Should it really matter?

Anyway, off to see the kids tomorrow to spend Easter with them! My S21 called me this week and said he wants to see a therapist for anxiety/panic attacks. So, we are going to talk about that a bit more this weekend, and I’ve already started looking into it for him (he asked for my help). D19 has been randomly texting me all week “Miss you!” “Love you” “Can’t wait to see you!” They are my joys, and I feel so blessed I am so close to both of them.


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Grace

It takes a lot of time to fully let go of a spouse we loved

The hearts sounds like an honest mistake so I would let it go
It really doesn't matter what he thinks, and you expressed your truth


MY XH came around less and less as the months went on until finally gone

Not all Mlcers will totally leave, but they do seem less involved over time


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Could someone please give me a link for the states on a MLC? The one's from post about all the links in one place don't seem to work. Thanks.


M: 56
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H Moved out: 10/1/18
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