Dilly you are doing so well . You have a deep understanding of where you and dh are . It’s hard and draining , but you can do it , it will be worth it .
Was just pondering the phrase “ behind every great man is a great woman @ . Would being a cheerleader for the positive things and actions he does be a consideration for trying?
Dilly... you sound like you are doing well. Good for you. Also glad you are starting to realize that you deserve better than what your H has been giving you. My H was a jerk when he was home as well... I was walking on eggshells and I didn’t even really recognize it because I got so used to him being that way. Now I am on my own and I don’t have to do that anymore. It has been liberating. I hope things work out because I loathe to see families split - especially when there are kids involved. If it doesn’t work out, however, you will be just fine. (((HUGS)))
Dilly - you sound very strong. And it sounds like things need to change in your behaviour towards your H because he both doesn't want to lose you, but isn't willing to make himself vulnerable or change his behaviour. He hates it when he thinks you might be ignoring him - and of course you don't want to distance. I think a solution to that would be to tell him when you are taking some space from him. Would something like, 'I need a few days to think. I hate the way you spoke to me the last time we were together. I know you are tired and stressed but I don't deserve to get the brunt of your moods and I'm not tolerating it anymore. I will contact you when I am ready to be in touch,' work for you? It is clear and sets a boundary and I don't think it distances - you're not avoiding intimacy, you are protecting yourself from poor behaviour. They are really different things and I think if you (and me) had those straight in our heads we'd be able to make better decisions.
I know your H has a fear of abandonment and I know you don't want to trigger that. But you don't need to let that be your motivation. This is about you, not him. You are moving away from unacceptable behaviour. If he feels abandoned, he can reflect on that and figure out how to behave in ways that won't cause you to move away. It will probably get worse before it gets better. And if he's a problem drinker, it might not work at all - he'll have medicine to take away all the pain he might have been able to learn from. But at least you'll know, and at least you won't be subject to his moods.
The thing with being a distancer (and this is only from my own experience of being a distancer) is when we're hurt, we withdraw but we never say why. We expect those close to us to know they've hurt us and to amend their behavior accordingly. They might know instinctively what they've done, but unless you make it clear, then they will put it to the back of their minds (to protect their ego) and just think you're a moody [censored].
This is very different from setting boundaries. Setting boundaries is telling someone that their behavior is unacceptable and then telling them what the consequences of their behavior. There is no miscommunication. There is no him saying you're a moody [censored].
As Alison says, he can reflect or he can ignore it.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
What I need: to have some honest conversations with dh without either of us walking on eggshells. I walked on eggshells round him for years, and now he says that's how he feels.
This is not going to happen any time soon. If you force it now, it will end badly.
You are both a) fearful of hurting the other and b) fearful of getting hurt. Conversations like this can only happen when you feel comfortable enough to know that you can say what needs to be said, and you can hear what needs to be heard.
I don't think either of you are there yet. Focus on simply talking to one another again. Make him feel when he leaves that the interaction was a positive one. No R talks. Just normal everyday talk.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I don't really know how to get the safety back in our relationship,
Time and {emotional} distance. Right now (and this is not meant to be harsh) you are dependent on him to make you happy. During the holiday you got upset. When he doesn't text you get upset. With time and distance you will discover that your happiness is not dependent on him. This releases your H from the responsibility of making you happy. And remember, he is a man running away from responsibility.
In the meantime, work on rebuilding a friendship. No pressure no expectations. If he texts, then respond in a friendly manner. If he doesn't text then try and pay it no mind - even when it is days since he last sent a text. Yes, he might think that you are distancing, but so what. He knows where you are.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
We're going out to dinner as a family on Thursday night for ds1's birthday, then we are spending Good Friday to Easter Monday together. I don't know how that will play out.
It will play out the way it plays out. Just be friendly happy Dilly who has no expectations and doesn't put any pressure on him. Pretend you are out with a family member (maybe a sister or a brother).
I am not saying this because I think it will make you more attractive to him (but it will) or take the pressure of him (which it does) but because it also takes the pressure of you. It will be tough. You will want to reach out to him. You will wonder what's going on but cast those thoughts aside. Change your mindset. You are there to celebrate S1's birthday. You are there to spend time together as a family. You are not there to reconcile.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
We both need some new ways of being with each other and to take down some of the walls.
Dilly, many here experience all sorts of unimaginable hatred from their spouses. Their spouses rage, call them terrible names, hide money, flaunt their affairs, act like teenagers, ignore them for days/weeks/months. And this isn't me minimising what you're going through - your H is being a self serving [censored] who is only thinking about himself and his pain right now. Your pain and longing is as real as any of us here.
What I am saying is you have an opportunity right now to start building a relationship with your H. But it starts with friendship (and tbh that's where it might end). Those walls will only fall once you become friends again. They will fall when he can look at you and see an attractive, independent woman who is not putting pressure on him to be someone he isn't sure he wants to be anymore.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I hope he can step up and play his part.
He won't, or at least he won't for a long time. Be prepared for a long ride.
Dilly you are doing so well . You have a deep understanding of where you and dh are . It’s hard and draining , but you can do it , it will be worth it .
Was just pondering the phrase “ behind every great man is a great woman @ . Would being a cheerleader for the positive things and actions he does be a consideration for trying?
Tryhard: this is something I have been working on, being more appreciative of him as a person and for things he does for me. Case in point: the other day when he had my car he filled it up so I texted and thanked him. I have been more appreciative of everyone in my life actually, not just dh, I have made a big effort for it to become my new normal, to thank people in a meaningful way if they do something nice, and to give people positive, meaningful feedback about themselves. I think I really touched a few people with that (not dh lol, I'll keep working on that one)
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Dilly... you sound like you are doing well. Good for you. Also glad you are starting to realize that you deserve better than what your H has been giving you. My H was a jerk when he was home as well... I was walking on eggshells and I didn’t even really recognize it because I got so used to him being that way. Now I am on my own and I don’t have to do that anymore. It has been liberating. I hope things work out because I loathe to see families split - especially when there are kids involved. If it doesn’t work out, however, you will be just fine. (((HUGS)))
Deja: thank you. I don't want to go back there again, I don't think he does either actually. I mean, he wasn't like that all the time or anything, but it was a good 6 months of most years and got worse and worse over the years, he was stuck in a right negative spiral and I didn't respond well to it. I thought I was being assertive and actually I was just defensive, I've never been good at conflict though I'm improving my assertiveness a lot since this happened. His behaviour was pretty intolerable at times though, to the kids as well as me. In a way I'm paradoxically glad I got to see the old him because yuck, he wasn't nice. He was firmly in victim mode and blaming everything on me. I did spend quite a few years actually thinking about leaving him. Maybe I should have, but I wasn't brave enough. I just kind of ignored him and continued on with my life and was reasonably happy when he wasn't around. I used to dread him coming home from work for quite a few years, that's pretty awful isn't it?
Dilly - you sound very strong. And it sounds like things need to change in your behaviour towards your H because he both doesn't want to lose you, but isn't willing to make himself vulnerable or change his behaviour. He hates it when he thinks you might be ignoring him - and of course you don't want to distance. I think a solution to that would be to tell him when you are taking some space from him. Would something like, 'I need a few days to think. I hate the way you spoke to me the last time we were together. I know you are tired and stressed but I don't deserve to get the brunt of your moods and I'm not tolerating it anymore. I will contact you when I am ready to be in touch,' work for you? It is clear and sets a boundary and I don't think it distances - you're not avoiding intimacy, you are protecting yourself from poor behaviour. They are really different things and I think if you (and me) had those straight in our heads we'd be able to make better decisions.
Yes Alison, I agree with that, that's kind of similar to what FS said below about us distancers not saying why we're withdrawing but just doing it and then causing hurt. Yes, that would be a good approach, I was thinking if his behaviour isn't great over Easter that I will ask for a bit of space from him. And yes, I agree that avoiding intimacy and self-protection have different aims...
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
I know your H has a fear of abandonment and I know you don't want to trigger that. But you don't need to let that be your motivation. This is about you, not him. You are moving away from unacceptable behaviour. If he feels abandoned, he can reflect on that and figure out how to behave in ways that won't cause you to move away. It will probably get worse before it gets better. And if he's a problem drinker, it might not work at all - he'll have medicine to take away all the pain he might have been able to learn from. But at least you'll know, and at least you won't be subject to his moods.
Yes, I agree with that too. This is the first time so far that he has behaved badly since he left actually, though it has felt weird and like he's a stranger sometimes, it has been good to see that he was actually able to control his temper and critical behaviour. I guess maybe I expected too much for him to keep that up for 3 days and I played my part in it too by having my emotional meltdown. I regret that. He wasn't horrible the whole time but he certainly had his guard up and then the drive to the airport was horrible.
The thing with being a distancer (and this is only from my own experience of being a distancer) is when we're hurt, we withdraw but we never say why. We expect those close to us to know they've hurt us and to amend their behavior accordingly. They might know instinctively what they've done, but unless you make it clear, then they will put it to the back of their minds (to protect their ego) and just think you're a moody [censored].
This is very different from setting boundaries. Setting boundaries is telling someone that their behavior is unacceptable and then telling them what the consequences of their behavior. There is no miscommunication. There is no him saying you're a moody [censored].
As Alison says, he can reflect or he can ignore it.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
What I need: to have some honest conversations with dh without either of us walking on eggshells. I walked on eggshells round him for years, and now he says that's how he feels.
This is not going to happen any time soon. If you force it now, it will end badly.
You are both a) fearful of hurting the other and b) fearful of getting hurt. Conversations like this can only happen when you feel comfortable enough to know that you can say what needs to be said, and you can hear what needs to be heard.
I don't think either of you are there yet. Focus on simply talking to one another again. Make him feel when he leaves that the interaction was a positive one. No R talks. Just normal everyday talk.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I don't really know how to get the safety back in our relationship,
Time and {emotional} distance. Right now (and this is not meant to be harsh) you are dependent on him to make you happy. During the holiday you got upset. When he doesn't text you get upset. With time and distance you will discover that your happiness is not dependent on him. This releases your H from the responsibility of making you happy. And remember, he is a man running away from responsibility.
In the meantime, work on rebuilding a friendship. No pressure no expectations. If he texts, then respond in a friendly manner. If he doesn't text then try and pay it no mind - even when it is days since he last sent a text. Yes, he might think that you are distancing, but so what. He knows where you are.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
We're going out to dinner as a family on Thursday night for ds1's birthday, then we are spending Good Friday to Easter Monday together. I don't know how that will play out.
It will play out the way it plays out. Just be friendly happy Dilly who has no expectations and doesn't put any pressure on him. Pretend you are out with a family member (maybe a sister or a brother).
I am not saying this because I think it will make you more attractive to him (but it will) or take the pressure of him (which it does) but because it also takes the pressure of you. It will be tough. You will want to reach out to him. You will wonder what's going on but cast those thoughts aside. Change your mindset. You are there to celebrate S1's birthday. You are there to spend time together as a family. You are not there to reconcile.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
We both need some new ways of being with each other and to take down some of the walls.
Dilly, many here experience all sorts of unimaginable hatred from their spouses. Their spouses rage, call them terrible names, hide money, flaunt their affairs, act like teenagers, ignore them for days/weeks/months. And this isn't me minimising what you're going through - your H is being a self serving [censored] who is only thinking about himself and his pain right now. Your pain and longing is as real as any of us here.
What I am saying is you have an opportunity right now to start building a relationship with your H. But it starts with friendship (and tbh that's where it might end). Those walls will only fall once you become friends again. They will fall when he can look at you and see an attractive, independent woman who is not putting pressure on him to be someone he isn't sure he wants to be anymore.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I hope he can step up and play his part.
He won't, or at least he won't for a long time. Be prepared for a long ride.
I agree with all of that FS. I used to accuse him of thinking I was a mind reader but apparently I was equally guilty! I have been better since this happened at boundaries, but clearly I need to keep working on my assertiveness, old habits die hard. Trying to do it when I'm triggered is the hardest of all, that's probably what I have to work on the most. I've started on not running away and a few times I've said why I've gone cold, but not in the moment. Maybe a goal.
I agree, I can't force it now, absolutely. In some ways I feel like we were making progress before towards friendship and reconnection, we were quite relaxed with each other and there was plenty of banter via text and stuff. I don't know what happened to make things get worse again? I need to think about that, it might have been both of us. I definitely started getting insecure and impatient and maybe pressuring too much and it sent him backwards, I don't know. Or maybe he started getting feelings for me again and didn't trust either of us to have changed, who knows. Maybe it doesn't matter why, I just need to step back and stop thinking about R and get on with things.
I'm also not sure how much longer I can live without physical affection and sex. If you're younger then maybe you feel like you can wait longer, but I feel like literally everything is shrivelling up. Perimenopause truly is a horrible time!
Easter: I will try my very best to be relaxed and chilled out. Not drinking wine will definitely help with this, I will stay strong on that rule!
Update: I sent dh a friendly text about the weather this morning and was then travelling all day. Got home very late (after 11) and saw a message asking if we'd got back. I'd been driving so hadn't seen it. Then he'd sent two more saying that his phone was on do not disturb because he was driving and to text him with the word urgent so it could get through. I figured he goes to bed early so I didn't want to wake him up so won't reply tonight, but I did find it funny that he must have pulled over just to send those texts. Mixed messages, see? He won't commit to loving me or even talking about trying to love me, but the thought of anything happening to me scares him. The other day I cut myself with a knife cooking and his intake of breath was much sharper than mine. Bizarre beyond words.
OK so it's 8am and since I texted him this morning to say we arrived home ok he has texted me 6 times and rung me once. Is this him apologising for how he was over the weekend? Maybe. A few of them were about logistics things but some of the questions were expressing an interest in my work (I have a half yearly review this morning which I'm prepping for). Truly weird, but I'm quite detached about it and not reading too much into it (think I've been guilty of this in the past). I had a dream last night that dh had an accident and broke his arm and I was upset about it. And then he said he'd fallen over drunk and hurt himself again, and he was wearing a cycle helmet to protect his head in case he fell over again. I woke up halfway through this dream and was thinking it means he's damaged in the head and needs to be treated with care and empathy. Well, that was one interpretation anyway, the other is that he's an alcoholic incapable of looking after himself properly (I did say that the other day, well I said I wished he was able to work less so he could look after himself more and he said he was just an alcoholic but work doesn't stress him out too much. Hmmm)
Operation Dilly 2.0 Worked my socks off yesterday on the ferry. Got up at 6 to do more work. Yoga later and a run with a friend to see the spring flowers, lots of gardening and housework and laundry. I'm going to text dh at some stage and say 'I don't think we were our best selves in France, I'm going to be my best self over Easter, starting with not drinking wine because it messes with my head'. Thoughts on that? I would like to reassure him that I will be safe to spend time with after last weekend, so that we can both be more relaxed. I still need to make my list of emotional control tactics, and memorise the top few ones. Been listening to some really useful podcasts about this on repeat!
Feeling knackered but quite positive today, I think all the fresh air and nature on holiday was helpful to my state of mind despite a few rocky moments.
