thinking about the future it hard, isn't it? Is there anything about your present you would change if you knew for sure that your marriage was at an end? I don't mean the big stuff, like moving house, but just the way you spend your time and how you live day to day? I've been asking myself that question a lot. I think it's right that you can't live your life in this kind of pause forever - and if in June your H is no further forward in explaining what he wants than he was when he left, then perhaps it is time for you to go dark and maybe consider dating or something? I know I won't be as supportive and welcoming if May passes and my H is still telling me he doesn't have the emotional capacity to tell me what he wants. I will be making that decision for myself.
Do you think your H might have, or might have developed, an alcohol problem? Not all alcoholics are drinking vodka in the morning, or showing signs of physical dependency. If he drinks instead of reflecting on or dealing with uncomfortable feelings or situations, then it will be a very very very long time before anything changes, and when they do change, it will probably be for the worse. Is that something that worries you?
Changing my life: I don't know. I have a big career transition coming up in October and I have no idea what's happening after that, whether I will go get a full time office job or a temporary contract or what. I've told my IC I'm trusting fate for that, and that I can make stuff happen career-wise. I don't have to work financially then but if dh isn't in the picture I think it would be good for me, even if it's part-time. I'm trying not to think about it actually because there is so much other stuff going on before then. I quite like my life the way it is right now, seeing my friends a few times a week, taking ds1 to lunch one day a week, taking the teens to their activities and going to yoga and fitness classes. The latter will change because my gym is shutting in the summer so I need to make a new routine there anyway. So I kind of think that I will have to make myself a new life at some stage this year no matter what. I feel a bit stuck over having to take the kids to their sporting things because they can't get themselves there, that might impinge on what work I do later on, and it could affect where we could move to.
Dh definitely has an alcohol problem, he's always drunk quite a bit but it's got worse and worse over the years as he's got more senior. His workplace is alcohol fuelled too, every social event involves a couple of bottles of wine each. When he left he said he wanted to get his alcohol consumption under control because he knew it was damaging his health, and he said he thought he was using wine to numb himself out. Since then he's acknowledged that he hasn't drunk any less. I've stopped calling him out on his alcohol use, it doesn't help and it won't change his behaviour. I like drinking too, and occasionally I drink a bit too much, but the whole hormonal thing means alcohol seems to affect me more both during and afterwards, so I have been trying to moderate my drinking as much as possible, mostly successfully. I'm not sure he's capable of moderation though, and if he gave up then I would be willing to as well. Maybe I should tell him that, I don't know. I just don't talk about alcohol much unless we're at the pub and I'm discussing the beer. But wine is his big downfall.
I'm unsure of whether he's properly an alcoholic or whether he's just got terrible, terrible coping mechanisms and is using alcohol inappropriately. I thought originally when he left that he would just cover everything up with alcohol, but I have seen signs of him trying to change, and succeeding in some areas, and I think him taking up running is part of that because it's looking after himself and probably giving himself time to reflect. I do wish he would talk to someone, but I can't make him, just like I can't make him do anything.
I'm probably just being a bit glum because I feel dh retreating a bit lately. Maybe he's doing that because he needs to work on himself more, I don't know. I do know I can't hang around waiting forever without hope. This April will be illuminating in seeing whether or not there is hope, I think. I do think that dh is desperate not to lose me, which is just plain bizarre.
I'm unsure of whether he's properly an alcoholic or whether he's just got terrible, terrible coping mechanisms and is using alcohol inappropriately.
In a way, it doesn't matter. If he drinks when he feels bad rather than dealing with the thing that makes him feel bad - either from the inside or by making an external change - then it will be a very very long time, if ever, before he's able to make positive changes. Why would he need to, when he has a medicine that will always take the impetus for change away?
I think you're right to step away from the problem of his drinking, whatever it means to him and your marriage. It's probably like an affair in that you can't control it, can't change it, can't do anything about it, and it also has nothing at all to do with you. I do know that people who are inappropriate with alcohol (or anything else) are in a primary relationship with that, rather than themselves or their spouse. He probably doesn't have room for himself in his own life, never mind a wife and children, if he's drinking the way you think he might be.
I think you're doing so well, Dilly. Your work, and your GAL, and your patience and your IC calling you to account and not letting you sweep anything under the carpet. You're being so gentle and understanding and also admitting your own stuff without playing the victim. Perhaps this holiday will be a real watershed moment for you. Perhaps you don't need to plan what you're going to say - no need to try to control or manipulate the experience (I mean those terms as neutrally as I can - I mean, you don't need to try to provoke change...) - maybe you can just work on trusting that this new Dilly will be able to respond honestly and assertively and authentically to whatever the time together offers, and then reflect afterwards about what changes you want to make.
It is impossibly hard, I know. I don't think I would be up to it but I think that you are.
Do you feel he got into a “rut” with his life before? I think he is maybe just making a new one with his drinking. I think drinking blocks out the “worrying “ side of the brain and can alleviate the thoughts that need to be addressed myself, but I know we are all different. For me I like to sit with a coffee and chat about random thiy(oh and people watch) my one guilty sin
With the holiday I think no expectations and just let go and enjoy yourself, you have been through a hellish experience recently and deserve to have some well earned respite
Thank you Alison, those words were so kind, they really mean a lot to me. I'm going to trust myself to say the right thing if I need to and to listen and respond to dh empathetically over the weekend and to not get upset or try to interpret his actions too much. We'll see how it goes, there has been more honesty between us the last month or so so perhaps we can keep moving in that direction. The alcohol thing I definitely can't control, and I'm not sure dh can either, but he has to decide to seek help if he can't do it alone. One of his colleagues' wives recently was admitted to rehab, she was drinking to the point where she was putting her kid in danger and was pretty much forced into going sober, he thinks of that as proper alcoholism rather than his current drinking 1-2 bottles of wine every night. I know he does worry about it though, and also that I can't help him with it but I can be non-judgemental and listen if he wants to talk about it.
Tryhard: he was definitely in a rut before, but drinking was part of that rut and now he has made a new rut for himself with even more work and the same amount of wine. Doesn't seem like this new rut is better for him, and he might even see that. I don't know what will get him out of his rut. I do know he's quite an anxious person naturally, it would be good if he could seek help instead of self-medicating, but it can take a lot for men to seek help.
Thank you both so much, I am looking forward to getting lots of fresh air and exercise for me and for the teens, and relaxing somewhere pretty. I realised I haven't actually been on holiday since last August, which seems a lifetime for me when we usually go away every school holidays! I need to book something for May half term next, with or without dh.
That sounds so positive, Dilly. I think booking something for May - for yourself and the kids, with room for H depending on what happens - is a good idea.
Something I wonder about when I read your thread (and other people's and when I read my own and think about my own situation too...) is why we are doing what we're doing. Why do I want a remote, angry, critical, blaming, emotionally stunted man who hasn't prioritised me in years, blames me for his EA and blames me for him not being with his children, yet isn't quite ready to have a conversation about R or divorce? Why on earth do I want that man? Why do you want this anxious, avoidant, selfish alcohol dependent man?
I don't know if it is that we're all just living in the past and want the people we married - not realising, or too blinded by hope - that they aren't there any more. Or if we're so guilt ridden about our own mistakes and shortcomings that we're prepared to accept very little in a relationship so long as there still is one? Or that we only see the bad side when we're angry, but in our calm moments, we know there's a lot more there. I think for me it is a bit of a mixture of all these things. There's a lot about my H I don't like, I don't want, and that he would need to work on before I would want him to come home.
But I think I know that my H is a gentle, baffled, confused man with shockingly poor self esteem who is desperate for his children to look up to him and me to admire him. I know he's incredibly shy and anxious and that he's determined to make some changes in his life to be a better father and start an exciting and worthwhile career. I know he's felt incredibly hurt and rejected by my behaviour, and acting hurt would make him too vulnerable so he acts angry instead. I see he's falling apart with stress and needs someone to lean on and he doesn't trust me to be that person right now.
I wonder how you see your H and if your H knows that you see him that way? Part of the way you describe him makes him very difficult to like (I feel really angry with him on your behalf sometimes!!). I wonder if a lot of his avoidance (and drinking is massive avoidance - avoiding yourself as well as everyone else) is to do with shame? He knows he's treated you and his children and himself absolutely abysmally and if you were to tell someone on the outside the bare facts, they would judge him harshly. I don't know what we do when our men feel ashamed, but apparently for men that is the worst possible feeling. For women it is abandonment, and for men it is shame.
Anyway - I am up early with the dog and just reflecting. Hope that's okay. Hope you are okay and you have a wonderful break with your children and that you're able to respond to anything that transpires with your H in a way you feel okay about.
I have some wifi and dh is off with the kids so I popped on here quickly. So far the holiday has been ok, pretty much like old family holidays. A few rough patches which we have smoothed over, but no real deep conversations so far (also no R talk, luckily). Dh and I shared a bed last night and even cuddled up a tiny bit (it was very cold). This afternoon we came back after a very nice lunch out at a town nearby. I had some wine with lunch and that gave me the courage to say what I was thinking all weekend. We came back to our accommodation with a nice lunch and wine inside us and that would usually be when we'd go and have sex and a nap. The best bit of a holiday... Well today dh was all for dragging off the kids to go swimming and then play tennis, I think to avoid the memories of what we'd usually do. I caught up with him, hugged him and said sex would be really, really nice. He evaded me a bit and then I looked at him and said 'I've been very, very patient, but I need sex. You need to think hard about how you'd feel about your wife having sex with other men, because whether you won't or can't give me sex, I have waited too long now and I really need it'. He said ok and then I went and changed into my bikini, showed him my new size 10 body (I might be in my mid 40s but I have a great body for my age, and he has always fancied me until last summer).
So anyway, I feel good about having laid down that boundary. I'm not desperate to have sex with anyone else, but I needed to tell him that I need it, it's been about 9 or 10 months now and honestly, I don't think I can wait much longer. He is a VERY competitive man, so if anything stirs the blood up, that ought to do it (I didn't do it to make him jealous, more to make him realise the reality of the situation, if he thinks I'm waiting forever he is wrong). I was honest with him, told him my boundary, didn't blame him and didn't threaten him (well, I don't think I did, what do others think??)
I'm conscious I initiated too many texts yesterday so I'm backing way off. It's hard to know what level to pitch it, being a distancer means I feel like I should pursue a little bit to show him I'm not distancing, but who knows, maybe he's just going through a thinking phase now work is quieter (he still has a bunch of work social stuff to attend though).
I am a distancer too so I know how tough it is. I think distancer also comes with not being able to show someone you appreciate them or telling them we think they're attractive. Even when we do both of these things, the resentment stops us from saying anything. So I am working on all three.
Not pursing so much, but saying thank you when he does something thoughtful (he sent me 22 photos last night from their two days at LEGOLAND) - "Thanks for sending the photos. They're great. I love the one of D12". I might sometimes initiate by sending him a text saying "How are the kids?" and this will start a small chain of texts telling me what they've all been up to. He always responds straight away and I am always the one to end it. Some days we don't text him at all - I have the kids today and have not heard hide nor hair from him. So, in answer to your question (and keeping in mind we are at different places with our H's), I would send a text when there is a reason , photos of the children doing something fun etc but when we are face to face, I engage him in conversation about what's happening in the news, or what he's been up to. The latter is a bit iffy. Back when he was acting like an alien, he went to get something from the store (5 mins away) and came back after 2 hours. When I asked him if he had gotten what he wanted he responded "Yes. And you don't need to ask". So, I am cautious asking him about him in case he sees it as prying or having a go. I make the odd comment like "I really like that jacket on you". Like I said, not over the top but enough to show I appreciate him and I notice when he looks nice.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
He has really piled the weight on again and must have been drinking a lot (even more than usual which is a lot). Oh well, I never thought leaving would make him more happy so I guess that shows in his body.
They either go one of two ways - they either turn to food and drink or they become gym junkies who suddenly know the calorie value of EVERYTHING. Both are a way of escaping their own tunnels. The guy who sits next to me at work (who has recently gone through a breakup) said that they only time he isn't thinking about her is when he is in the gym. He has now replaced this by spending all his time browsing dating apps and going on dates.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I was hoping his MLC was abating but maybe it's just going into a different phase. He has shown much more interest in the kids and me compared with even a few months ago, but he's still clearly suffering.
You've probably read all the literature on MLC. It takes a long long time before they come out the other end (2 - 5 years). They will cycle back and forth through the stages until they have learned the less on they need to learn. It is painful for them and it [censored] as their spouse to watch them go through it. There is nothing you can do. You can't make it go faster. You can however not make it any worse. Be there when he needs you but only when he comes to you. Stay the course and continue working on you.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I've been thinking about how to be during our weekend together, and I don't know yet. I will try to be calm and relaxed.
Calm and relaxed is the way to go. Be interested when he talks about things. Maintain eye contact. Be attractive (both physically and emotionally). Pretend you are just to date - how would you act? Avoid R talks. This is a weekend of getting to know one another again. If he mentions your relationship, then validate.
Like you said, calm and relaxed. I wouldn't mention sex. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't it doesn't. No expectations either way.
Originally Posted by dillydaf
I've been reading some of the success stories in the MLC forum, I can see a few real parallels with my sitch I think. I have to back off taking so much responsibility for this whole mess and remember that he has a lot of issues to work through from his childhood and also what the future will look like. I hope he hurries up with that...
I think this is perhaps true. You have taken a lot of responsibity for what went wrong and you are taking a lot of responsibility for fixing it.
I believe we all go through a transition, from young adult full of hopes and dreams, to realizing we are middle aged and wondering what happened to those hopes and dreams. How we deal with this transition has more to do with our internal psychology than our external environment. How we deal with the transition is built into us when we were young watching our parents interact with one another as well as where we saw ourselves in our friendship groups. The more 'broken' the upbringing and the more insecure the person, the harder the transition will be. My H never stood a chance.
Anyway, I think all I am trying to say is to take a little of the focus off of him and back onto you. Your H sounds like he is 'coming out of the fog', or at least not a spiteful alien spewing [censored] at every opportunity, so take it as it comes. Enjoy your time and be in the present with him, but when you're not together, reset so the focus is on you.
gosh - that's a surprise. I remember you saying you wanted to tell him, before the holiday, that you didn't expect sex as a way of taking the pressure off him... what happened to change your mind?
Still, I think you've shaken things up a bit. He can either be a husband, or not - and your patience for him having the benefits of your domestic wife work without any of the responsibilities of being a husband is wearing out, and you've told him that. I wonder if you'd want sex on those terms though? It sounds like what you were trying to say was something like, 'we're either married or we're not. And if you can't act married, I'm going to act single,' - but perhaps tying it to sex when you were all away raised the stakes a bit too high? I don't know - you know him best.
I hope it went well for you and that whatever transpired, you and the kids had a peaceful and relaxing time and you come home with a bit more clarity as to what comes next for you.
Thank you for your thoughts on distancing FS. I’ve been reading somewhere that in order to reach secure attachment distances have to go through a pursuer phase and vice versa for pursuers. So far so textbook for me. It’s no fun, I feel so insecure. Alison: I think I just had too many nice memories of holiday sex, plus it has been MONTHS AND MONTHS and I’m only human. Sigh. And I’m hormonal and everything is shutting down and I feel like I’ll never have sex again. Sigh. I messed up today, the rest of the weekend was lovely apart from the sex talk yesterday but this afternoon I had a total meltdown and separation anxiety and crying and being pathetic. And it ended in R talks on both sides and just ugh I am so stupid and over emotional. And dh cannot handle me being emotional at all and then I ended up apologising for all my many behaviours in the past, even though you’re right Alison, he has definitely contributed his fair share. Anyway I dropped him at the airport but I need to work out how to stop this separation anxiety, it’s so counterproductive and I feel about 3. Being middle aged is no fun. Not sure where I go from here, maybe I would be better off if he just left for good. He certainly expressed no desire to work on things but then he never has. Sigh. Ugh again .
