Sunday Supper - 4th Course

[AndrewP]

My heavens - this is turning in to an all out extravaganza with a dinner and a show!

Previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2844544&page=1

Our story so far:

Boy meets girl. Gets married. Babies. Aliens, explosions and exposition. Intermission. Man meets woman. They have coffee. They bump uglies.

No storage arrangements have as yet to be made.

[job]

Andrew,

I agree w/kml. Do not move B in just yet. The newness hasn't worn off yet and you both still need time to get to know each other. She needs to take care of her financial obligations and get her feet back on the ground before even thinking of moving her in. When is her divorce final? She's not had the time that you have had to get over a marriage gone south.

I know you really like B, but don't rush the process!! You are a fixer and you need to step back a bit and play the wait and see game to see how things work out for her when her divorce is final.

Just my two cents!

[Dawn70]

Just my 2 cents here, but I wouldn't consider moving B in until her D is final. Yeah, I understand what everyone else is saying about finances and I think you have that one under control as far as how you think/want to handle things there. I don't say to wait until her D is final because I think she'll go back to her X. I just think it is bad form to invite someone else's spouse to live with you, even if they are DONE. But, then again, maybe I'm sensitive to this particular subject since it is what happened to me. My XH's new skank wife invited him to live with her before we were D and while I didn't want him back, I just thought it was super disrespectful towards me. Don't do that. You aren't that guy.

[doodler]

On her way home she's going to stop by her Mom's place to pick up some things for her trip and she's also going to stop to check on a prior boy-friend who had been going to get some stents put in but mentioned to her that he'd just had another heart attack. She said that he didn't seem keen on seeing her and she suspects that he's found someone new. I think they parted ways well over a year ago but have kept in touch. And yes - it bothers me on one level that she still cares about this person to the point where she goes to see him. On another level - learning trust is important for me too.

Are you telling us she had a boyfriend well over a year ago? While she was married? How long ago did that relationship start? I'm sure she was headed toward divorce way back then, but her story is beginning to sound a lot like the standard script.

I'm sorry for bringing that up, but it's been badgering me since I read it yesterday.

[job]

doodler,

I have the same thoughts on this situation.

[AndrewP]

Are you telling us she had a boyfriend well over a year ago? While she was married? How long ago did that relationship start? I'm sure she was headed toward divorce way back then, but her story is beginning to sound a lot like the standard script.

I'm sorry for bringing that up, but it's been badgering me since I read it yesterday.

Nope - very valid points. And I do really appreciate the calls both here and elsewhere to watch my step and be careful.

I have checked B's stories and cross-verified her timelines as much as I can. Trust is always a huge issue and difficult to find. And I am only at this point getting her side of the story.

There was one affair that her STBX had a few years ago and they sort of reconciled. That lasted for a couple of years, they went on a cruise but the spark was out of the marriage and then he had a second affair. She flew from the Northern Ontario community she was at and confronted him in his hotel with the OW in Sarnia. Then IHS started - she moved in to the spare room and started living independently. That lasted for a few months and she started dating and he kept seeing OW but long distance. One of B's "huge" issues is "that woman" isn't to step foot in "her house". Yeah - as if he's going to listen to her now.

She got involved with a guy from the area local to me that she grew up in while in IHS. A fellow Italian - presumably mutual friends - and they did a long-distance thing and he quickly pressured her to move out and in with him. She moved in with friends just before her 55th birthday in Sept 2017 refusing to move in with this guy straight out of the marital home. She's also mentioned a ONS around then and she dated this other guy for a few months at least. She / they decided they weren't compatible and parted ways and stayed friends probably in early 2018. I suspect that her kids weren't real happy with this guy as she mentioned that she was told to not invite "anyone she's dating" to the two kid weddings that happened during this time nor was she allowed to invite "anyone she's dating" in to the apartment she later shared with her oldest son. I've actually never seen it which is - yes - a red flag. But I believe it to be a place also that she really doesn't want me to see as it is rather sub-standard housing. All her son could get. A little more explanation in the next paragraph.

B moved in with her mother "to look after her" in the winter of 2017/2018. In the summer of 2018 she (for complicated reasons) moved to the town just north of me and in with her son and his 2 kids. I've not really mentioned much but her son has had some past legal difficulties and only got custody of his kids if his mother (B) moved in with them for a year.

We first met in the summer of 2018 briefly and she was certainly available and looking then as she says that she made a big fuss with her co-workers about this "nice guy from [insert name of village]". Around then her friends pushed her to do OLD/POF and she had some unpleasant encounters. Most didn't get past the first date and few were local.

She found me in early Feb 2019 on POF, recognized me and blasted me with messages. I was a bit put off TBH because she seemed a bit desperate.

Side story - the Italian guy had a recent heart attack and B was going to visit him yesterday but he "wasn't up to it". She thinks he's dating someone else and was bummed out that the "stay friends" thing isn't much of an option. Personally, I'm rather happy about that but keeping my mouth shut.

So - I'm about to start meeting friends and family. They are all on team B and rallied around her. An Italian friend of mine told me recently that what one Italian woman knows, they all know. She's never given me any reason to not believe her. Her story is consistent and holds together and she is at times uncomfortably open about talking about how she ended up in my arms.

[doodler]

Andrew,

I realize she's filling a void in your life, but what bothers me is that you seem h3ll bent on digging a hole for yourself that's going to be difficult to climb out of. If you keep going at this pace you're going to make the Guinness Book of World Records. Why not slow down? Are you afraid of losing her?

This started out with a few little red flags (and a big one - she's married), but the trend has been to add another red flag every few days. That's not a good trend. She's got enough going on in her life to cause you a world of headaches.

[AndrewP]

Andrew,

I realize she's filling a void in your life, but what bothers me is that you seem h3ll bent on digging a hole for yourself that's going to be difficult to climb out of. If you keep going at this pace you're going to make the Guinness Book of World Records. Why not slow down? Are you afraid of losing her?

This started out with a few little red flags (and a big one - she's married), but the trend has been to add another red flag every few days. That's not a good trend. She's got enough going on in her life to cause you a world of headaches.

doodler - I appreciate the concern. She's not filling a void but has been adding to the good life that I already have. I have no "empty spots" to fill. Like you, I've done rather well alone. Better than most in fact I like to think. I chose to look for someone to add to the richness and colour of the life I already have. And that's why any potential partner has to "fit".

I think too that the rambling thoughts that I share here and the things that I joke about are often interpreted as "decided on plans". This is my safe place to explore my feelings and thoughts and to make contingency plans about how to deal with the expected and unexpected. It's gotten me in to a lot of trouble here over the years when people argue with me about things that I'm not doing but have just explored as concepts. I do assure you - and those others who are also worried for me - that I am taking the advice and warnings here to heart and treading as carefully as I can. I know that they come from a place of caring and concern.

I also know that I am both too close to see what others see, but also better informed than those watching from outside and have a broader view. It's a difficult balance.

I will never find the "perfect match". Heck, in many ways CL was a great match, especially on paper. Young, beautiful, well educated, financially very secure, certainly interested in the early months. Most of my relatives were very keen on her. FSL - some here thought she was a great match as did her own mother I believe.

B checks off a very large number of boxes on the positives side. She's kind, sweet, caring and patient. She's self-supporting and independent but also very comfortable being part of a couple. She's respectful of boundaries. I could search another thousand years and undoubtedly find any number of women who would be "better". But why waste my time searching for perfection? I'm not Diogenes.

We all come with baggage, myself included. I think it was a thread on this forum - perhaps even here - where someone recently said that the important thing about baggage is how well the person who owns it carries it. B has certainly taken full ownership of everything that she has going on and I have been well pleased with that. The actual amount of red flags that I'm seeing has been steadily decreasing. Like any of us, there is a lot that I don't share even if I do tend to share a lot more than most.

I certainly also have a number of red flags. Middle-aged with high blood pressure, partially blocked arteries and sleep apnea. A tendency towards unconventional neckwear. I work long hours and often get distracted. I will let some things slide like painting the porch while I place a high priority on a clean kitchen counter and well made bed. I have surprisingly little money in the bank or saved for retirement. I tip the scales on the "hey there big fella" range. While I can swear in French, I have little other fluency. I have cats. And I could go on and on.

Not all of us become the man we hoped we might be - but we are all God’s creatures.

But thank you my friend for your concern and advice.

[Ginger1]

Hey, A! Please take what I say with a grain of salt as I still have anesthesia in my system. I’ll keep it short.

When doodler speaks in all seriousness without a single joke interjected, that is something to REALLY listen too.

I’m a concerned friend too. I know you are flying high on the love endorphins. But your pace in lightening speed for someone who does indeed have red flags that might be to your detriment. I’m not saying don’t enjoy her and the boxes she does check. But the flags concern me for the life you have built for yourself. I think she may add to your well established life, but I have a feeling you are filling a void in her. She seems to have very little bit of on her own time looking for someone to fill HER void. This guy she dated has moved on and doesnt want to be a part of her life and she wants to remain a part of his life? That’s a big one right there. She wants to hold onto that rope. Why?

There is so much more to play out here that you should look at in the present rather than preparing for possibilities that should be coming way in the future .

And the things you call red flags about yourself aren’t red flags. They are just a part of who you are. Her red flags are still being married, having a rope attached to an ex she began to date shortly after in house separation, serious financial issues, seems like some serious kid issues, and more serious health issues ( which I would never break up woth someone for h less they weren’t taking the initiative to care for them, which she seems to)

And I can see you still got your fixing tendencies. Your gesture on her bad day was very loving. But don’t fix for her. Support. And no, you don’t need to send flowers to her resort. I think it’s a great time for you two to have your separate vacations without popping in like that.

I’m not saying this isn’t going to work. But I am saying it probably won’t if you plow through this at lightening speed.

Date her. It’s been 7 weeks. Just date. You have indeed built a great life for yourself. So be a supportive partner, but be so careful her baggage doesn’t become yours I. A matter of minutes . She still has building of her own life to do like you ddI.

How’s that for short? Hahahaha!

[DonH]

I certainly also have a number of red flags. Middle-aged with high blood pressure, partially blocked arteries and sleep apnea. A tendency towards unconventional neckwear. I work long hours and often get distracted. I will let some things slide like painting the porch while I place a high priority on a clean kitchen counter and well made bed. I have surprisingly little money in the bank or saved for retirement. I tip the scales on the "hey there big fella" range. While I can swear in French, I have little other fluency. I have cats. And I could go on and on.

Ginger beat me to it, but Andrew, THESE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ARE NOT RED FLAGS! Heck 25% of the population in your (our) age range have high B/P, some arteriosclerosis, and other typical such medical issues. Sleep apnea is both over and under-diagnosed but no matter, it's not a "red flag" Fashion sense is not a red flag. Letting some things around the house "slide" is not a red flag - hording is but not letting projects slide is not. You can't fluently speak a second language? Oh the horror! How on earth is this a "red flag." Many struggle with the one and only language they do speak!

So, at least based on these things that you list, you really don't have many if any red flags - other than perhaps not being financially set for retirement. There again, the "average" person has more debt than they have equity and zero plans for retirement so if you are even in the high 5-figure range you are still ahead of many and something tells me you are way past that. Do you see how these lack of red flags could be very attractive to many?

Now, multiple marriages, dating while married, going quickly from one R to the next (while still married) living situations, finances, children and family issues... THESE are true red flags. Don't under-sell yourself. I think you may be doing that - in fact I'm sure of it if you have to look for red flags because the real ones are not readily apparent.

Sadly, we are all who we are. You seem to be repeating the same course you took with your ex W - and as you say yourself, that lasted 30 years. I'm under no delusion that you'll be able to change course. Most of us can't. Many don't want to. But let's take the specifics out of it. If any of us or someone you knew came to you saying they are "in love" with someone they have only dated for a month, were thinking of moving in together after a couple of months - even six - and oh, BTW, that person is still married, had not really dated anyone else, and seemed to be over-looking true red-flags... what would you tell them? If this were your son or your daughter, what would you think? I think that's why I and the others are saying this is at freight train speed and may not end well if it continues at this speed. You just simply cannot know much about a person in the first 2 months. You only know a little bit more after 6 months. It's really after years that the true person comes to light.

When doodler speaks in all seriousness without a single joke interjected, that is something to REALLY listen too.

That might be the most profound statement of them all!!!!!!

[AndrewP]

I think that I've been sharing a bit more about myself and more importantly, someone else here lately than I perhaps should.

I'm going to take a bit of a step back.

[exquisitetobe]

Andrew, you are wise, kind and insightful.

Trust your instinct! (((A)))

[dream]

Why is it taking so long for her to be divorced???

We are worried about you Andrew. B goes from guy to guy to guy without taking any breaks to focus on herself. That is a red flag that you've either ignored or accepted. As the other have already said, you didn't mention a single red flag about yourself. The money thing I'd consider a yellow flag. Something you didn't mention is that you are a KISA and have trouble saying no to others... which is more a flag for yourself, but it's still a concern.

You've been talking about filling the empty bedrooms long before you started dating B. I won't be surprised if she has moved in when her 1 year agreement with her son is over... I think you said that's in June? Even though it's taking "twice as long" as the last time someone moved in. Things are different this time. Your XW wasn't married when she moved in. Have you talked to your son about the possibility of B moving in?

There were a few things you mentioned about B and then you put blame on her husband for why she reacted that way... these kinds of things, if B had taken the time to heal herself in between relationships (especially after her marriage "ended"), would not be happening.

We only want the best for you, Andrew.

[AndrewP]

For those playing the home game, first set of kid introductions went well. I met her daughter, son in law and 1 grand-kid. We ate ribs.

S24 was dissapointed that he didn't meet B this past weekend but the pizza was tasty.

I'm keeping my diary elsewhere.

[Dawn70]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so thrilled to hear this for you. That's a big step, even when the kids are grown, because when they are adults, they will say EXACTLY what they think. LOL I'm sure you don't know what that is like, do you?

I'm sorry to hear that you are moving your diary, though, as I quite enjoy your stories of you and B and just your stories in general. You know how to find me if you just want to share stories with someone.

[doodler]

I'm keeping my diary elsewhere.

In lieu of Andrew's diary, I've posted some slightly annotated historical facts about pie. (Many thanks to piecouncil dot org.)

* Pie has been around since the ancient Egyptians. The first pies were made by early Romans who may have learned about it through the Greeks. These pies were sometimes made in "reeds" which were used for the sole purpose of holding the filling and not for eating with the filling.

* The Romans must have spread the word about pies around Europe as the Oxford English Dictionary notes that the word pie was a popular word in the 14th century. The first pie recipe was published by the Romans and was for a rye-crusted goat cheese and honey pie.

* The early pies were predominately meat pies. Pyes (pies) originally appeared in England as early as the twelfth century. The crust of the pie was referred to as "coffyn". There was actually more crust than filling. Often these pies were made using fowl and the legs were left to hang over the side of the dish and used as handles. Fruit pies or tarts (pasties) were probably first made in the 1500s. English tradition credits making the first cherry pie to Queen Elizabeth I.

* Pie came to America (and pseudo America) with the first English settlers. The early colonists cooked their pies in long narrow pans calling them "coffins" like the crust in England. As in the Roman times, the early American pie crusts often were not eaten, but simply designed to hold the filling during baking. It was during the American Revolution that the term crust was used instead of coffyn.

* Over the years, pie has evolved to become what it is today "the most traditional American (and pseudo American) dessert". Pie has become so much a part of American (and pseudo American) culture throughout the years, that we now commonly use the term "as American as apple pie."

* AndrewP uses pie as an aphrodisiac to ignite the passions of unsuspecting damsels.

[AndrewP]

I like pie!

I had a Melton Mowbray pork pie just now for lunch. With mustard.

Still working on today's diary entry about the weekend. Using full names makes for more typing it seems.

[doodler]

Whilst we await Andrew to type the full names, I thought I'd post a pie recipe. (Thanks to foodnetwork dot ca.)

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Directions for: Tourtiere with a Twist

INGREDIENTS

Pastry
3 ½ cup flour
1 tsp salt
1 ¼ cup cold butter, grated
2 eggs, lightly beaten
1 Tbsp ice-cold water, more as needed

Filling
1 lb(s) ground pork
½ lb(s) ground veal, hare, or beef
1 large onion, minced
2 clove garlic chopped
Salt and pepper
1 tsp summery savoury, more to taste
Pinch ground cloves (optional)
4 to 6 tablespoons breadcrumbs

DIRECTIONS

Pastry
1. Put the flour and salt in a large bowl. Add the grated butter. Pinch quickly with the fingers to create a coarse, crumbly mixture. Make a well in the centre. Put in the eggs and the water. Quickly mix into the flour, just until the mixture holds together. Do not over-mix. Divide into 4 balls and flatten into disks. Wrap in plastic and let rest in the refrigerator half an hour before using.

Filling
1. Put 1/2 cup/125 ml water in a sauté pan and quickly bring to a boil. Combine all the remaining ingredients, apart from the breadcrumbs, and stir into the water. Cover, and cook until the meat is done, about 20 minutes. Remove the lid, stir in the breadcrumbs, and continue cooking uncovered until the liquid has evaporated. Check the seasonings, and cool.
2. Heat the oven to 450°F/230°C. Roll a disk of pastry into a rectangle. Spoon a generous stripe of meat mixture down the middle of it. Fold the short ends, up in over the meat making sure to trim any excess pastry, otherwise it will be too thick.Then fold over the long ends so that they overlap to seal, again, trim any excess pastry so it will bake evenly. Turn the log onto a baking sheet, seam-side down. Make a few slits in the top to let steam escape. Brush the top with milk for a golden crust. Bake until the pastry is crisp and nicely coloured, about 25 minutes. Serve warm or at room temperature.

Note: Originally this was going to be called "Andrew's Pie" but he was so d@mn slow typing his own name that a decision was made to call it Tourtiere pie.

[AndrewP]

I understand that exquisitetobe makes a very nice savoury pie. doodler - I appreciate that you are looking at Canadian pie recipes. We do make much nicer pies here than are possible in those barbarian lands you inhabit.

Crusts are far too intimidating for me so I use the ones that come rolled up in a box from Pillsbury. No pie baking for the next while though. I'm judging the junior regional science fair tomorrow and then heading off on Thursday to Norfolk with a stop at Ben's Chili Bowl for lunch. I will be back after the chili is well digested very late the following Monday. I hope to get to a screening of Who Killed Don Quixote at some point as well. No promises on the state of chili digestion given.

I made this recipe after the Maple Syrup festival on the weekend as I was too lazy to stand in line for hours for pancakes and B while willing undoubtedly wouldn't have had a lot of fun in the queue. For those who want to try this, I did learn some time ago that caster sugar is Australia speak for regular granulated sugar. The "I" in the recipe is the original author - a very nice young lady who recently had a baby.

Perhaps DnJ's son can make this as I understand that he now owns a whisk.

Lonely Girl Pancakes - A Single Serve Pancake Recipe

Author: Swah
Serves: 1

Pancake Ingredients:
¼ cup plain flour
1 tsp baking powder
1 tbsp caster sugar
1 tbsp flavourless oil (I used sunflower)
¼ cup milk
1 egg
Pinch of salt

Optional extras:
Maple syrup
1 tbsp shredded coconut
¼ cup of blueberries
Ice cream
Cheats Berry Sauce Ingredients:
¼ cup frozen berries
1 tsp icing sugar

Instructions
Sift dry ingredients into a jug and mix.
In a separate bowl (I just use a mug), whisk together the egg, milk and oil until combined.
Add the wet ingredients into the dry and stir until well combined. If using additional flavourings, such as berries or coconut, add now and stir gently to combine.
Lightly grease a non-stick fry pan and heat to a medium temperature.
Making this mixture in a jug will make it easier to portion out the batter – make this to your preferred size. I made 5 pancakes about 10cm in diameter.
Cook until bubbles form on surface, flip and cook the other side until lightly browned.
Serve either with a garnish of extra berries and coconut and a drizzle of maple syrup, or see below for a Cheats Berry Sauce.

Cheats Berry Sauce Method:
Put frozen berries in a microwave-proof container, cover it with paper towel or a slightly askew lid. Cook on high for 30 seconds until hot and bubbling.
Add in icing sugar and whisk, combining the sugar and breaking down the berries into a sauce.
You can add a teaspoon of water and strain this if you want a smooth sauce, otherwise the whisk will sufficiently break the berries down to a thick and delicious sauce.

Variations:
Make it vegan – Substitute 1 egg for 1/2 a mashed banana. Substitute milk for soy or almond milk.

Make it healthier – Substitute the plain flour for whole wheat or coconut flour. Omit the sugar and oil and add extra berries for sweetness and moisture.

Make it naughtier – Substitute the berries for chocolate chips. Substitute the milk for ricotta.

[Dawn70]

Well, thanks. Now I want pie and pancakes. I should know not to read your posts when it is already 2:30 in the afternoon and I haven't even actually had time for lunch yet. As far as pies in this Barbarian land, we may be Barbarians, but at least we know good chess pie and good pecan pie when we eat it. And, now I want chess pie and pecan pie, so thanks again.

[doodler]

We do make much nicer pies here than are possible in those barbarian lands you inhabit.

Andrew,

I'm about to prove you wrong; checkout my recipe below.

doodler's delight

Ingredients
1 Pre-made pie crust with foil liner
1 Large bag of gummy bears
1 Can whipped cream

Instructions
Step 1: Remove the pie crust from the package.
Step 2: Spread the gummy bears uniformly in the pie crust
Step 3: Spray whipped cream on top of the gummy bears

Variations
If you'd like a tropical flair, you can sprinkle some coconut on top of the gummy bears. For something more exotic, sprinkle a pinch of cardamom on the pie. In addition, you can top the whipped cream with one or more cherries.

Enjoy!

[DnJ]

Perhaps DnJ's son can make this as I understand that he now owns a whisk.

Lol.

Yes he has ventured into whisk-hood. The possession and ownership of such a culinarily utensil is a powerful responsibility. Pie and pancakes demand creation. One must listen to the will of the whisk. Many a kitchen has become haunted by the will-o’-whisk when not used often enough. You have been warned.

I do have a whisk, left behind, a lbw. It demands useage. That pancake recipe should assuage it’s need to bake.

Or maybe doodler’s gummy bear pie.

[doodler]

Andrew,

I'm channeling your inner Phaedrus. There's a YouTube channel that you need to be aware of; the name of the channel is alfsvoid. Search for "alfsvoid" on YouTube or via Google. You'll understand what you're missing (thus the void).

[AndrewP]

Andrew,

I'm channeling your inner Phaedrus. There's a YouTube channel that you need to be aware of; the name of the channel is alfsvoid. Search for "alfsvoid" on YouTube or via Google. You'll understand what you're missing (thus the void).

Wow - something I didn't have to search in incognito mode

I may have to check my shelves. I think I actually have some Socrates that I bought at a discount shop years ago and never got to. CL used to chastise me and suggest that I should be reading something written this century. She'd be highly disappointed with Socrates I'm sure that I can find something on Gutenberg although my "to be read" pile is already quite large. I still have much of the works of GK Chesterton to go through and I started that while in in-house separation. I recently picked up a digital copy of the biography of the father of Alexandre Dumas which looked interesting and haven't even opened that.

A common theme with B and I is that she thinks we should be spending time together where she does her thing and me reading my obscure books.

I do imagine my friend that if we were to meet in real life that our conversations would consist of you saying something I've never heard of before and me suddenly getting interested in it. Sometime you'll have to try to connect with Dawn - she's not asked but she may have suspected where I get my taco recipes from.

------

I'll probably update my "real" diary later - possibly copy/pasting from here but thought I'd give a more normal update. I've not abandoned this place nor my friends here. Just pulling back a bit.

Regional junior science fair today. Oh my heavens - such passion from the kids. They were excited about their projects and in many ways did better than the senior kids I saw last week who were also impressive. I believe that this was grade 4-7. There were a few who "phoned it in" but overall I was very impressed. One pair of girls did a very cool project on the effects of various cleaning products on permanent marker - because they were wanting to start baby-sitting and expected this to be an issue. I had talked to them, letting them know that I was in the Chemical industry and talking about the active ingredients in some of their tests which I figured bored them. When they saw me they essentially read cue cards for their presentation which got them lower marks. The second judge was blown away about how they were engaged in their topic and talked ad-hoc about it mentioning the other judge who was in the "cleaning business".

I really enjoyed myself both interacting with the kids and the other judges who were all very positive and similarly excited to be there, even the ones who had done it for a decade or more. Having a softer heart than the average bear I did my best to be very positive to all the kids even if I thought that they could have done much better. It's not for me to judge - except that it "was" But there was no way that I would do anything other than be positive and encouraging to these kids. I do expect that this will be a regular thing for me. The judges are a fascinating mix of academics and industry people. I did get brownie points from a recent PHD student who is studying the effects of different metals in nuclear reactors when I told him that oxalic acid will clean his coffee cup. A tip he's going to share with his graduate students after submitting the process to appropriate academic review and duplicating my own test results.

I did have a bit of a challenge on a personal level. Book Shop Lady came again and sat with me and was almost in tears because a dear friend of her's had passed this morning but she powered through for the kids. I really felt like she needed a strong hug and a shoulder to cry on but the best I could do was to be sympathetic and listen. I don't know - I really feel strongly about not crossing a line about physical contact in some ways. Not that it's related but B does seem to be "interested" in where I am and who I'm talking to which reminds me of the old saying that second wives seem to always travel with their husbands on business. At the end of the science fair I did look around to see if BSL was about to suggest we have a cup of coffee and a visit but she wasn't around. Probably for the best.

------------

B went to the airport this morning around 2:30 am. I happened to be awake and I expect she was pleased at the early "Good morning Beautiful" which my phone now auto-completes. She's in Punta Cana for the next week and a half funded by her recently widowed sister. She sent me a picture of a familiar pair of legs and set of pretty toes against a backdrop of sand and sea in the afternoon. This trip will be good in quite a few ways both for her and I expect for "us". Tomorrow I leave for Norfolk on a 5 day trip which will put me out of easy communication range and so will give us a break from each other. It will also give her a break from her son / grandkids and the associated drama.

The extended trip might cause some confusion with her Easter plans which were pretty vague already since she won't be back until the early morning of the 20th meaning that we probably won't see each other for 2 weekends in a row. While I'd be happy to share our Easter feast of roast duck and the fucassa she made for us, it is far more appropriate and expected that she spends time with her kids and close family. And yes, I'll be missing the purely physical touch that we share and enjoy.

I've got load #1 of 3 of laundry in. I think I'll probably try to get everything taken care of including my ironing today before I go. I do so like to come home to a non-mess even if usually S24 is busy doing dishes as I pull in the drive. I'm really looking forward to seeing D26 - we may also try to watch "Who Killed Don Quixote" which I am really looking forward to.

And for those playing the home game - liver and onions on the menu for dinner tonight.

Tomorrow I'll be heading out around 7:00 am with my first stop north of DC. I have a conference call at 1:00 pm that I'll be doing on the road despite being on vacation.

[job]

Travel safely and enjoy your time visiting DC and eating at Ben's Chili Bowl. If you get a chance, pop over to the Basic and catch a glimpse of the Cherry Blossoms. If not there, while traveling across the bridge into VA you can look across and see them.

Travel safely and enjoy your time away.

[Dawn70]

Safe travels and have a blast! If you decide to go west, young man (and south), swing by and say hello. I can't wait to hear about it and see pics when you get back.

[Dawn70]

Oh and if you have the opportunity, do a night tour of all of the memorials in DC. They are amazing in the daytime, but even more so at night.

[AndrewP]

At my hotel in Maryland north of DC. I'm doing my best to fit in by saying Y'all every third word. Slow to arrive because of spending an hour sitting on an off-ramp on a conference call for work. Vacation I suppose is a word that happens to other people. I've sent off the relevant memos that I committed to do.

I did manage to find a Tim Hortons in Batavia NY that actually served a half decent cup of tea. Probably the last tea like substance that I'll be able to find for some days. Depending on traffic around and through DC I hope to be in Norfolk by supper time.

Sitting here in the hotel catching up on various things but in to bed soon. As a random experiment I checked and there actually is a Welcome To Night Vale Weather stream on Spotify. And only the coolest of the cool will know what I'm talking about there.

B is having a good time with her sister. Several pictures of sun and palm trees and a pretty lady were waiting for me to have an internet connection. I believe she misses me as I do her. Our relationship has perhaps progressed to the point where she checked with me today to be sure that I had something healthy to eat but not so far that "burrito" didn't pass as "healthy". If you were to read our messages you would imagine that we're 40 years younger than we actually are. She's gone out for dinner with her sister. I think she's really enjoying herself.

Before I checked in I picked up and am currently drinking a can of something that claims to be beer that has the odd name of Coors Light. There's a picture of a mountain on the can. Perhaps that's where the goat that contributed comes from?

I may stop by Goddard tomorrow morning to see if there's anything new at the visitor's centre. There is a strong possibility that this may be my last trip down this way but I do think that there will be another in the late summer. Makes me sad in some ways as there is a lot that I've not seen. The naval museum is supposedly a hidden treasure. There's more than one and the obvious one is I believe not worth the effort. I'm not actually interested in American "history" but a good nautical or space museum is worth going out of my way for. For the next while I do expect that between B and her friends and family plus my own I do expect that my social calendar will be busy and D26 will be moving to San Diego in the fall. I do need to let her know that B is perhaps a more important part of my life than she may have thought. S24 certainly knows in no small part because of the extra baking that he's gotten.

Is there anyone in this country who I haven't insulted yet? Don't worry - I'll get to you I do think that I need to curl up under the covers now. I'm almost at the end of That Hideous Strength by CS Lewis that I perhaps last read 20 years ago. I do find that especially given the dramatic life changes that I've had in recent times that his work has new meaning for me.

[Ginger1]

Coors light? Nooooooo! That’s not real beer!

[TBSakaJ9]

OH NO COORS LIGHT!!!!! Takes me back to my college years!!! Your a brave man A!!!

[Ginger1]

Get a Sam Adams cold snapnif you can. I think it’s their best seasonal beer. Of course when I went out the other night, that one was kicked.

[Dawn70]

Oh Andrew......here I thought I loved you and now you have dissed me not once, but twice in your post. I'm glad you made it safely, by the way. First of all, don't bother saying y'all in Maryland. Maryland is yankee land and they don't get it. If you can't get sweet tea and biscuits and gravy on a menu in any given restaurant you choose, you are NOT in the South. You have to come a little farther south to fit in with y'all. And, second, my dear, sweet, precious, lovely man.........why you have to diss my silver bullets like that? Coors Light IS beer. Now, see, here in LA (Lower Arkansas, for those of you not familiar with southern geography and not to be confused with the state abbreviation for Louisiana for those of you who are), a lot of rednecks and hillbillies prefer the Anheuser Busch offerings like Budweiser, Busch and Busch Light. Only those of us who are refined in our redneck-edness drink Coors or Coors Light. My dad is all in for Coors (the regular old gold can stuff) while my mom prefers the silver bullets of Coors Light, which I prefer as well. Really, I'm shaking my head, Andrew. But, just to make you feel a little better, if I could get it here, I would be soaking up some Molson every chance I got. It is good stuff. And, Tim Horton's is the bomb. So, I guess you are forgiven after all. Drop the y'all and learn to embrace the silver bullets and we'll be all good again. And, have fun. Glad B is having fun and it is so cute that y'all are missing each other. (See how easy it is to slip y'all into a sentence?)

[job]

I'm a born "southern" Marylander and we say y'all all of the time. It's the northern part that says u'ins or some other such thing. It's all in where you live in Maryland because the north and south have ways of saying things differently, but mean the same thing. Also the accents are different between the two.

Glad you made it to Maryland safely. Coors Light???? Nasty stuff!!! Travel safely on to VA. The weather looks good for your trip. Hopefully you will arrive in Norfolk before storms move in this evening. Weather on Sunday could get a bit nasty in the evening with storms and gusty winds.

Are taking the scenic route of 301 or going down 95? The scenic route 301 has some nice vineyards if you had the time to stop in. There are signs along that route and some nice historic homes as well. If you don't have time to stop by some of them this time, you can always plan a day or so to visit them next trip.

[AndrewP]

Just a brief (for me) note. My drive in to Norfolk was painful. I went down 95 and then in via Hampton. Traffic south of DC was amazingly slow with emergency vehicles going all over. I hope everyone was OK. Just outside of this area I was stuck on an on-ramp for about an hour as some poor people had a major car fire at the end of it. Which put me to the Hampton Roads tunnel right at rush hour. I did arrive eventually, got hugs.

D26 and I went out for dinner and I did talk to her about B and let her know that things are looking pretty serious. She didn't really seem bothered about it but did seem to be happy that I had told her.

We had a nice day yesterday and walked for a couple of hours along Virginia Beach getting soaked to the skin in the process in some light rain. Our prior plans to go to the aquarium or shopping were ditched in favour of dry clothes and binge-watching Tidying Up with Marie Kondo with some randomly selected beer.

We did talk about various things and while I didn't ask specifically I did get the solid impression that she rarely hears from her mother and that she's still not impressed with her. We did talk about her coming home for Thanksgiving and staying with me.

The thing that prompted me to post this morning though was a message from SIL1. It seems that my ex has suddenly shed all of the people on "my side" from her social media. SIL1 was shocked but my own reaction was "good". Perhaps my ex is now moving along with her new life at last. SIL1 suspected that it was due to the existence of B - I don't know and frankly don't care.

B seems to be having a good time with her sister but I get a bit of a tone that she's getting bored and feeling a bit constrained on having to be with her sister all the time. We send each other messages from time to time and when I get an internet connection, my phone does go bing bing bing.

In talking to D26 I do believe that this will be my last trip to Norfolk. Sad in some ways. This is a beautiful part of the world and I will miss it. I highly recommend this area. It has a lot to offer to a tourist between the beaches, museums and historical sights.

D26 will be moving in August and it's already mid-April so another trip this summer would have to be pretty soon. The time around her move isn't a good time for me to be needing to be entertained.

Ah well - the world moves on and after a quick shower I believe I'll be heading to perhaps my last visit to a Waffle House. They don't have any in California.

[job]

I am glad you arrived safely. Sorry your trip down 95 was painful. Friday traffic isn't the best and especially w/a holiday coming up, rain, etc., it makes driving a lot slower. When I worked in the city, we use to laugh because as soon as one drop of moisture hit the ground, people became stupid when it came to driving. If you were coming back again (which it sounds like you aren't) I would have suggested 301, it's a bit slower, but scenic. But, it sounds like you will be heading west next time around.

I do hope your daughter comes home for Thanksgiving. It would be nice for her to see her family, friends and meet B. As for your xw shedding people from your side of the family...typical childish behavior. Trust me, she is still watching from afar. She's letting everyone know that she is aware of B. I'm glad to see that you don't care any longer about what she's doing. Maybe it's time to advise SIL1 that it's time to let this go and leave things well enough alone and that you have moved on.

Looks like some rain/storms moving in your area later today down there. I do hope that y'all are enjoying yourselves. Please travel safely when you are on the road.

[kml]

I believe I'll be heading to perhaps my last visit to a Waffle House. They don't have any in California.

Yeah but we have the BEST tacos!

[job]

kml, I agree...the tacos are exceptional in CA.

[AndrewP]

Dream - I hope you weren't offended when I didn't respond to your post. I'm choosing to avoid endless debates. I know you meant well with your comments.

Dawn/job! I'm glad that I managed to cause some discussion about important issues such as where the "real" South begins. I remember a couple of years ago being in a restaurant in Fredrick Maryland and a lady at a nearby table was going on about how her daughter was a "real Southern Lady". My son-in-law is from Georgia and disputes on if even Virginia is actual "South" or not. I think the general consensus is that if it has a Waffle House then it's South.

I have conflicted feelings about tacos D26 is brushing up on her Spanish for moving to San Diego and is looking forward to "real" Mexican food. She did say that she and her H have fallen in love with that part of the world during their short visit and may consider staying there. The future is uncertain. The social media person for my son-in-law's ship has posted that they are currently in Spain so I can mention that here as it isn't a military secret. He looks like he's having fun.

It was a very good visit. Very different from past ones. We went for a nice long walk on Saturday along the fabulous board-walk in Virginia Beach which was largely abandoned due to weather. We got rained on fairly hard when we were about a mile or so out and got literally soaked to the skin on the way back but for most of the walk it was just breezy, warm and misty. We took it in stride, I got dry clothes from my hotel and we hung out for the afternoon and binge-watched Tidying Up with Marie Kondo which is a sweet show. It has lessons for the LBS I think. Letting go of those things that don't spark Joy and treasuring that which does. It's not about utility - but about Joy. I liked that.

Sunday was similar to Saturday. Nice breakfast at Waffle House where I had biscuits and gravy, some adventures including a trip out to the Naval Exchange - the biggest in the world is in Norfolk - essentially a huge department store. I picked up a "Proud Navy Dad" sweatshirt that I had been coveting and D26 was smug that she paid for it as I literally wasn't allowed to as I obviously don't have US military ID.

We then had a late lunch at "Waterside" which is a cool mix of bar and food court where I had a couple of more drinks than I might have otherwise and we had a great visit and talk. One uncomfortable thing that came up and is perhaps on D26's mind is her family resemblance to me. Despite the bright blue eyes - very like my Father's, she looks a fair bit like me. She commented that she thinks she's starting to look more and more like her mother who is a handsome woman and that S24 looks a lot like her.

It would be nice if I had definitive proof - as a guy LBS this is a thing that can eat at you but I do know that it honestly doesn't matter. Despite rumours, I do like to think that my ex was faithful to me up until the OM she left for. I also know that it would be stressful for the kids if I suggested it.

We then hung out for the afternoon, binge watched the Great British Baking show which I thought B would enjoy as it is both a showcase for some very creative baking and also a very kind program with everyone being so very positive - at least when the camera is pointed at them. We picked up some beer and a take-away pizza for dinner. In many ways a perfect visit. Just spending time with someone I love hanging out.

I was very pleased that D26 really seems to have no issues at all with the existence of B nor of the fact that it was pretty obvious that she has done a few overnights here. I did pass on her IRL at least social media credentials and talked honestly about some of the bigger red flags that I was worried about. We had a longer talk about her brother and the challenges that exist with getting him to leave the nest. Her mother barely came up in conversation. Not so much any more because D26 thinks that it would be painful for me, but more that I think she has pretty much no interaction with her and what she has she doesn't care for. Looking back over 3 decades I'm actually not too surprised. There was always a bit of conflict and tension between them, especially I think because D26 and I bonded so strongly. I know that when she moved out that my now ex quickly moved to take over the space in my life that our daughter had formerly occupied.

I drove home in one go yesterday. Exhausting. 1200 km in one go. A bit over 14 hours of driving with few stops. I checked in with B and the kids when I had data. I was slightly surprised, but not very when I got home to a big pile of dishes on the counter. S24 did leave me a single clean plate and bowl for my breakfast at least. It appears that he had food provided by others as well as ordering in pizza. The fridge is also fairly empty. I do wonder if he spent any time with his mother but that is literally none of my business. The temperature drop from Norfolk to Ontario was huge going from the mid 20s to freezing. I regretted only wearing a T shirt for the drive back somewhere in Pennsylvania. For kicks I bought a Power Ball ticket at the gas station - it would be complicated if I won not being American.

I felt odd as I approached the Canadian border as I was suddenly filled with feelings of homecoming and looking forward to seeing my wife waiting for me. Then - yeah - no wife. And B hasn't filled that role in my heart and mind and was in the opposite direction. We had a bit of a text exchange when I got home and I was saddened when B told me about the fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. I checked the news story and was pleased that it appears that no one was seriously injured. While it's hard to replace an 800+ year old church, a life is impossible to replace. I was a bit surprised that B thought to send that along but she does know that I am interested in things like that and I get the feeling that she is working on. I think she's getting a bit burned out with her trip with her sister. I think that they spend the time together and not doing their own things separately. She had been going out in the evening and having a few drinks - with a hang-over in the morning but last night B was in bed closer to her regular early time.

The news of my ex cutting her social media ties with my side of the family was obviously on my mind last night and I had a very vivid dream where she was being positive and chatty and pressing for details about B. She'd needed help with something vaguely undefined and I was obliging. Perhaps a sign that I'm healing. SIL1 says that the now visible parts of my ex's social media profile shows a very bitter and angry woman. No idea what the actual truth may be.

I was surprised that B video called me again this morning. I do miss her face - and other parts. I was still in bed and we chatted while her sister was out reserving beach chairs. A process that I object to but none of my concern. She waved when she came in to shot. I felt a bit awkward but on the other hand glad that B is so open about me existing having been in circumstances where that wasn't the case.

The cats certainly missed me with Amy spending much of the morning thus far as close to me as possible. I do think that S24 didn't spend much time with them.

Well - it appears that I have a lot of dishes to do along with laundry. There were about 600 emails waiting for me and even though I don't go back to work until tomorrow, I'll sort through those. The greater bulk are automated messages and can be ignored.

I also have my diary to catch up on.

[Dawn70]

Glad you enjoyed your time with your daughter. Sounds like y'all have a lovely relationship. Next time S24 leaves a big pile of dishes, MAKE HIM DO THEM! You are not his butler.

[AndrewP]

Hmmm - when your girlfriend is on a tropical beach and sends you a picture of her well tanned cleavage while you are at work in an open concept office ... SCROLL!!!!

[AndrewP]

It's sort of a Saturday.

I started to type in a detailed post but then copy/pasted it in to my diary. This surprisingly is the less detailed version.

It's B's last day of vacation and I expect her to stop by tomorrow some time. Like J9 I've been confused at the lack of depth of feeling I have for B and having typed that realize that I'm contrasting that to the depth I had first in the giddiness of limerence and love-bombing that my ex did and then what built and grew over the years. I just did the math and no longer can I say that we were married for more than half my life. That changed shortly after she left.

My feelings for B though are honest. I like being around her even when that is through a video phone call which we did last night for part of my drive home and again this morning while she was lying on the beach. I was a bit surprised and pleased when she gave me an ILU while her sister was in the room. She's done that a couple of times. Not in a flaunting way but just as a matter of fact. B's sister is a bit over 10 years older and recently lost her husband. This trip I think was for her to heal and B as the "single sister" was the obvious choice to go along. I think that it's been a good trip for them both. She did say that she wants to stop by here on Saturday which will be nice if we can schedule it around my chores and errands. I mentioned not specifically about this weekend, that I hope that she can stay over again sometime soon. I actually expect that to accelerate a bit and need to be sure that I'm ok with everything before it hits any sort of tipping point.

--------------------

I checked and I don't think I've mentioned this. The science fairs were held in the city that OM lives in. I drove past his house a couple of times - in a creepy stalker fashion I'm sure. I'd only seen it on Google Street View before. I am perhaps biased but from the outside it looks like a cold and unwelcoming place. Certainly not to my ex's taste. Her ideal home is an idealized version of her childhood home. My house is fairly close although she always wanted to add on the big wrap-around porch on a big house. OM has a fairly nondescript house in a nondescript neighbourhood. The neighbours are quite close which would bother her as she "really" likes her privacy - and - if nothing else - it feels like it has no soul. There were no vehicles around when I drove by. I honestly don't know if my ex has moved in there or not. Literally none of my business.

It's not - directly - related to B being in my life but I think that I've progressed in my disconnection / healing from my ex. I think that the news that she's dumped my family and embraced OM's is a big part of that. I honestly can't see her looking back at me and the life she had - at least with any eye to wanting it back. I believe that she was away last weekend. S24 did say that he was dog-sitting and that he just filled up the cat's dishes and since he didn't mention a name that is the only plausible explanation. That was also co-incidental with her disconnecting my family on social media and my sending a support payment identified as #18 of 77. There could be much speculation as to why. Pressure from OM to dump her old life, anger at me, anger at the existence of B, anger at the life she has, joy and moving forward happily. SIL1 strongly doubts the last. I honestly don't know.

I went back to check and yesterday was the 3rd anniversary of me discovering her affair and today is the 1 year anniversary of my divorce being final. How the world has changed.

I think I'm getting to the point where I don't even feel pity for her. Probably in large part because I honestly don't know anything about her life. I'm no longer looking for karma to visit her. My anger is that towards someone who did me wrong and who I will never be able to trust but who I will undoubtedly never have to trust. There will undoubtedly be some interaction in the future when S24 - eventually - gets married but that will be one afternoon in an unknown future.

I'm grateful that in no way does B fill the spot that my ex occupied. SIL1 during her rant is presuming that "My guess is it got back to her that b stayed overnight. In the house that once was hers. In the bedroom that once was hers. In the bed that once was hers. With the man that once was hers." If she is interested in knowing, I can't imagine her not knowing about B. Being as she was very possessive which I interpreted as protective, I could see it bothering her but it certainly doesn't bother me. Thinking back, the hardest part of bomb-day and the time after was the fact that my then W never openly acknowledged her feeling or what she was doing and was horrified if anyone would find out. While the news of B hasn't spread far and wide, it certainly is no secret.

Well - I suppose it's time to annoy Amy who is "very" cuddly this morning. I may have a nap with the girls later. They always like hanging out on Grandpa's bed even while they argue about who gets to be where.

I also need to do some planning to make sure that my Easter dinner timing is set to have everything more or less ready at once.

[TBSakaJ9]

A - Did I read that correctly you are already getting I love you's??????

[AndrewP]

A - Did I read that correctly you are already getting I love you's??????

Some time ago yes. B is a very "all in" kind of lady. I think for Ginger and M that it was about 2 1/2 - 3 months in but she's an "all in" gal as well. Your Dr is probably much more reserved. And also keep in mind too that B and I have had quite a bit of time to just talk as well as at least 2 dates / week.

[TBSakaJ9]

Do you tell her the same? If not, how does she react to it?

[Ginger1]

For a little bit of clarification....

I used to be all -in. I’ve become wiser and much more cautious. I am all in when I de die I am all -in. Not from the beginning. I need to get to know a person, look for compatibility, etc. I’ve made mistakes in the past, and I work not to make them again. We didn’t say “I love you” until 5 months in. And I do not take those words lightly at all. Love is action, not just a feeling for me.

Andrew, how far in did she say it?

J- you do have to feel it in your heart. And for me, saying that word is to continue to keep on loving.

Do you love her, J?

[TBSakaJ9]

I am getting there G not yet though. My feelings are growing however I just thought it was a little early for B to be saying it to A. I thought you and M said it around 6 months.

[Ginger1]

Just for the record, I’m not judging, A. You guys have a relationship and a speed that works for you. I’ve just learned a lot about being all-in from the get-go. It hasn’t served me well, personally. So I decided to learn from what wasn’t working well for me.

J- everyone says it/feels it at different rates. 3 months in isn’t much. I began to feel it at that point, but I had to give some time to verify love vs. infatuation

[AndrewP]

Do you tell her the same? If not, how does she react to it?

It took me another week or so and even then I honestly felt that I was stretching things. I knew that I would get there but it was important to me to say ILU prior to our weekend away. To me sex is a "huge" commitment - part of love - and I also wanted her to know that I cared for her regardless of that. She was OK when I originally told her that I needed time and was very happy but not surprised when I eventually told her the same. And yes Ginger it was before the end of 2 months. J9 - you and your Dr have taken a different path and will find your own ways. My own opinion is that once those Words are spoken, they can't be easily taken back.

For a little bit of clarification....

I used to be all -in. I’ve become wiser and much more cautious. I am all in when I de die I am all -in. Not from the beginning. I need to get to know a person, look for compatibility, etc. I’ve made mistakes in the past, and I work not to make them again. We didn’t say “I love you” until 5 months in. And I do not take those words lightly at all. Love is action, not just a feeling for me.

Andrew, how far in did she say it?

J- you do have to feel it in your heart. And for me, saying that word is to continue to keep on loving.

Do you love her, J?

I agree fully Ginger. Those words even if they are "just" words are a commitment. Not as big as a "will you marry me" but certainly the "we're exclusive and I see a future with you and no need to look elsewhere"

I am getting there G not yet though. My feelings are growing however I just thought it was a little early for B to be saying it to A. I thought you and M said it around 6 months.

There are not rules. As the great philosopher, Captain Hector Barbossa once opined - "The code is more what you’d call 'guidelines' than actual rules."

[JujuB]

How you write out your checks is really funny!

I think people define love differently. Some people are more reserved or more cynical or less trusting of their feelings. Others feel deeper or are more optimistic, or more trusting. They think less and feel more. Then you have some that love bomb and use those types of sentiments on vulnerable people.

Obviously we are only reading posts, but B certainly does not sound like a Love bomber.

[TBSakaJ9]

Ok so then what is love? A choice? An action? An emotion? When you love someone what are you supposed to do or feel like?

I ask because I have only known one thing for my entire adult life.

[Ginger1]

All of the above!

[TBSakaJ9]

I guess probably more of a choice than anything I assume.

[AndrewP]

I guess probably more of a choice than anything I assume.

Absolutely. That giddy head over heels feeling is fine for teenagers or people having affairs. For me, it's knowing that this person "fits" in to my life and adds to the richness of it.

Well - another milestone passed. Much to my surprise B - despite not being somewhat unpacked from her trip wanted to spend time together yesterday. Over an early dinner she suggested that I ask her to stay over - which I did.

While we were sitting very close to each other in the kitchen going over pictures from her trip, S24 rushed by on his way to his poker game. Introductions were made - everything's cool. We didn't bother pretending that there had been no PDA going on. S24 didn't seem to care.

S24 being out for a while gave us some extra well appreciated privacy in the house. B has now moved in her soap to the bathroom and coffee maker to the kitchen. We did talk in general terms about her spending progressively more time here. We stopped out to visit her mother this morning - who is a charming 91 year old and B is going to do some tidying at home and then out to see one of her sons for Easter dinner. I'm just going to start roasting my duck shortly for S24 and I. B would have been welcome here but personally I'm very glad that she is spending the evening with her kids. I do worry sometimes that she does prioritize time with me.

S24 did ask just now if he had been rude by just zooming past and I assured him that from my point of view that the interaction was perfect. No pressure, no fuss - just "normal".

Well - I have some laundry to do - I believe that I need to invest in more linens. I did re-install the shelves in the bathtub to accommodate more people.

[Ginger1]

Progressively spending more time and moving her stuff in? Uh huh. She ain’t getting no apartment of her own.

Your duck looked delicious ! Happy Easter!

[AndrewP]

The duck did turn out rather nice. S24 was rather complimentary too which was nice. Late night as is usual when I make a big meal although I did try to keep up with the dishes as I went along. Many leftovers to be dealt with over the next week.

Funny thing to relate. When I went in to the flower shop on Saturday FSL asked "where's the old lady?" which made me giggle. She then backpedaled and said that she probably shouldn't call her that and asked for her name. We did chat a bit and I was surprised to find out that FSL is 38. I'd had her as a lot younger. If I'd known this 6 months ago my life would perhaps have taken a different turn even though that is still a nearly 20 year difference.

I was saddened to hear that my next door neighbour's daughter's boyfriend died a day or so ago from a fentanyl overdose. As a random coincidence my neigbour's daughter is also a friend of B's oldest son which alarmed her.

B also mentioned that her STBX is fairly upset at the fact that she's dating me which I think is going to make navigating her settlement more complex. She mentioned that her sister that she vacationed with was really pushing her to get things over and done with.

B texted me that she wasn't feeling well this morning. Fortunately I'm not ill so it's not something that she was carrying on Sunday when we visited her 91 year old mother. I'll check in with her at lunch to see how she's doing. She's alone in her apartment right now I believe. I'm working relatively close today.

[Westo]

“Where’s the old lady?”

Wow, how b!!tchy!

[AndrewP]

“Where’s the old lady?”

Wow, how b!!tchy!

It's common slang for girlfriend / wife.

[Westo]

Oh I see.... we would say “the other half”

Here the term ‘old lady/old man’ is used for your parents. So if I’d have been referred to as that, I’d have probably decked her! Lol

[AndrewP]

Wednesday - not too much to report. Amy is cuddling and petting my left hand while I type.

My credit card company sent me a notice that they want to increase my limit. While I don't particularly need it, I'm going to accept. My understanding is that credit worthiness is based on total available credit so increasing my limit here decreases my capacity to borrow in other ways. With S24's student loan closed at long last, that's 20K dropped off. It gives me a bit of a buffer. In a place where I know that it would be stupid to go. Like probably quite a few of us, losing that "backstop" of a partner with an income, even modest, creates more awareness of risk.

Even though I worry about my job security as my immediate boss and I have conflicts and he's made it clear that he has (and has never had) a career path in mind for me as the company transitions during the reorganization. I did have a bit of a laugh though because I'd sent him a note that the president of our acid division had asked me to be at that plant while he was on vacation and some other business stuff related to the reorg was going on. Like a good little plebe, I made sure to pass this on and got a terse response questioning the need. What I didn't know is that he had sent a similar message to that president as well. He really doesn't know how to make friends. When I mentioned to the president that I had been questioned and sent back the reasons for the schedule change, he said that he had gotten a similar "hairy eyeball" and was debating how to respond.

Even though the future is fairly nebulous at my current job I do think that given the good relations I have with almost everyone at all levels including the most senior, and am well respected for my skills I probably don't have anything to worry about. But - no backstop - no guarantees. 3 1/2 years ago I was side-swiped with the unexpected from what I thought was my loving devoted wife. Makes a guy skittish.

--

I'm planning on getting together with B after work. She's come down with something so the smooching will be very limited or eliminated. Both her sister and I suspect the mold in her apartment which is getting a thorough cleaning. I think she let herself get over-tired on vacation, then spent a late night with me and went back to her apartment which had not been ventilated while she was gone. It has known mold issues. It would be easy for me to say - "well just stay here" - but neither of us are ready for that although it has been more seriously discussed and unless something comes up will probably happen by the end of June - when her current obligations to where she is living end.

I've struggled a little about an odd thing for the last week or so. I've spent over 2 years being friendly and flirty with all sorts of women. I've been working on scaling back the "flirty". It came home to me last night when an old acquaintance who happens to be a bit of a celebrity and who I follow on social media let me know her personal social media profile. 6 months ago, I would have been pleased about the chance to explore a new friendship but now - .... I dunno. Mind you, there are all sorts of really really good reasons to not get mixed up with someone famous - and it's a stretch of the imagination that anything other than connecting with an old friend was intended. But it made me more seriously think about how I think and act around the opposite sex. I'm certainly not about to back away from any friendships, existing or new, just being more mindful that there is a new self-imposed boundary that I need to keep an eye on.

Well - I suppose it's time to focus on work. I made a far too large batch of potato pancakes this morning from the left-over mashed potatoes (stir in a couple of eggs, hot sauce, spices) and will need to go for a walk at lunch. B chastized me as we are both trying to be good on our respective diets and I sent her back a laughing "Unsupervised!" comment. I'm not sure how much longer that will last for. For the present most people in our wider circle have no clue that either of us are getting attached to the other. Just those closer to us and of course the random and semi-anonymous people here. I respect the fact that B does want to keep things quiet for now. Her official reasons - doesn't want to disturb the grandkids - is a bit bogus, but it could cause her some issues with her settlement and sorting out the ongoing financial connections she has with her STBX for whom she still does a lot of adulting. The people that matter - immediate family, good friends are well on board on both sides. I'm comfortable that I'm not playing the role of OM - mostly.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Andrew

“Where the old lady?”

Westo’s comment - I choked on my coffee. OMG. Lol. Almost came out my nose.

It very common slang - here. It is most definitely referencing “the other half”.

While we were sitting very close to each other in the kitchen going over pictures from her trip, S24 rushed by on his way to his poker game. Introductions were made - everything's cool. We didn't bother pretending that there had been no PDA going on. S24 didn't seem to care.

S24 did ask just now if he had been rude by just zooming past and I assured him that from my point of view that the interaction was perfect. No pressure, no fuss - just "normal".

Sounding great!

From my own children and life: If you are ok, your children will be ok. S24 “sees” you are alright. You have been and are his role model, and you are demonstrating very good values. He is watching, growing, has respect, and is proud of you. Even if he doesn’t show it - take it on faith from me.

I do worry sometimes that she does prioritize time with me.

IMHO, a person’s priorities should be: God, Themselves, Partner, Children, Family, Friends, etc...

Partner, Children, Family, and Friends do get mixed around. Even we get our place within our priorities mixed up. However, overall I believe that is a proper and long term sustainable structure for relationships, love, and life.

IF B is looking towards a future. Ahh, scratch that. No point pussyfooting around here.

You and B are looking towards a future together. I know you didn’t enter into this wily-nilly, ok a bit of projection from my life; however I believe we have similar values. So, her placing you before her children (at the moment once in a while which will get more) is great. I would like to say “ it is normal”, but sadly the norm is different. Partners a lot of times are place further down the list than they should be. I think we can all relate to that.

And for what it’s worth:

Love is a belief!

Beliefs influence everything within one’s life. They affects emotions, reason, and faith - feelings, thoughts, and soul. Just like love does.

You are doing very well my friend.

Believe it.

I do.

DnJ

[AndrewP]

It turns out that when you pain-shop that the store is always fully stocked.

I was updating some archives on the computer and came across my old "evidence" folder and foolishly browsed it. Yeah - still hurts. Not as bad as it used to but still hurts. I've now deleted that and the backup copy too. No need for that to hang around. Legally it doesn't matter and not morally either.

B and I had a nice dinner despite her voice being gone. Weird not kissing. She refused to pass on her germs even though I assured her that it would be "worth it". S24 joked later when he asked how my date was that as she's Italian that she could just use hand gestures. B thought that was funny when I passed it on today.

Our plans are to spend Saturday together and I was thinking that in addition to the usual errands that we would go to the local home show. She just messaged me that she's not any better and seemed to like the idea of soaking in my tub with lots of bubbles while I provide her with lemon tea. So it may be a quiet Saturday. Not sure if she'll take me up on that offer or not but it was (mostly) seriously offered. I do believe that I need to get some lemon tea.

I did hear from SIL1 that her husband / my oldest brother knew B's STBX in a "we work at the same place" kind of way. The opinion of SIL1 is that B is probably eligible for a very generous settlement. Which is good but also literally none of my business.

The reason for today's post though was a perhaps random encounter of the ex-wife kind. A lot of co-incidences seem to have coincided. While I was out with B I just left the garage doors open to let it air out a bit in the nice weather. It seems that S24 went out with her for some sort of dinner (he came home with a take-away box but no cheese I believe) and some new clothes. I did see my ex parked for a fair while across the street when she dropped him off and presumably noticed the then closed garage doors. I believe the odds are pretty close to zero now that she doesn't know that I'm dating. She may well know generally who and that it's getting quite serious.

One of the routes that I can take in to my Toronto office where I am today takes me past her apartment which I did. It was pretty obvious from the frost on her car that yep - she's still living alone in the same apartment she's been in for nearly 3 years now. Sad in many ways but also literally none of my business.

Even now, sometimes I feel like reaching out to her. To see if she's ok. But there's no purpose in that. Nothing to be gained and so very very much that could be lost.

[kml]

Sounds like you were meant to run across that folder to remind you of why you are not reaching out to her.

[Dawn70]

I know I have asked this before and it never seems to get a response, but why do you care what your XW knows and doesn't know? Y'all are separate now. Don't worry about her and what she does with your son. Just focus on you and B. I know you are detached and do not wish to go back but sometimes the way you word things make me wonder if you are fully detached. Or is it just more that you are a people pleaser so you care more intensely than most what people think? Either way, you are a lovely man and you have found a lovely companion in B, so just enjoy that and let the rest of the world roll on by.

[AndrewP]

I know I have asked this before and it never seems to get a response

26 years is a long time to be wrapped up with one person. If you knew me back when this all started you'd be impressed by how far I've come. Still a work in progress and probably always will be.

[Dawn70]

LOL...you know I just like to give you a hard time. I like your attitude, though...a work in progress. Aren't we all, my dear Andrew? Aren't we all? I know I always will be.

[kml]

I do think we all secretly would love to hear that the WAS is jealous. She probably is, Andrew, or at least she's wondering where her Plan B has gone. They usually like to think of us waiting patiently on a shelf somewhere.

[lurch05]

This was my situation. WAS had exit affair, didnt last 3 months. Then she seen 1 of the women I was dating/talking to....she even texted me that she was a little jealous. She was p!ssed when I told her that it was a former employee I may have flirted with a little when W was becoming distant in the M (due to "boyfriend"). I tell you it felt great lol. but it didnt last with that one, to young and to much drama

[neffer]

The need to protect the people we love(d) is always there...

Time for the underwear flag on the rope Andrew.

[TBSakaJ9]

A - Amen......I was with my XW for 17 years and there will always be a part of me that will always love her. Even though I know our time together is over with she is the mother of my children and no matter what happened I will always watch out for her best interests.

I hope our mutual family friends told my XW that I am dating and I also hope she is secretly jealous

[AndrewP]

Time for the underwear flag on the rope Andrew.

LOL - We'll see what this weekend brings. B hates using the laundromat at her apartment and I've made the offer. The house is set up to do laundry for 4 and S24 doesn't do his very often.

If you look carefully between the houses the clothes lines are pretty visible.

More seriously though - I don't expect any blow-back from my relationship with B from my ex regardless on how she may be feeling which is literally none of my business. I expect that if she were to complain to any mutual acquaintances or even the kids that she'd just get a blank stare from them as well.

[AndrewP]

B is crashed on the "couch" (a futon) in the living room with a cat snoozing at her feet. The puir lass is exhausted and has been sick all week. Her sister and I think that it is due to her being tired and the mold in her apartment which had gotten worse while she was on vacation. She calls it a "cold". I don't know. I do believe that 2 weeks in the sun, staying up late, more drinking than she's used to - she's a one glass of wine girl most nights if that and then long travel days followed by a "busy" weekend with me last weekend - no doubt that she's exhausted.

I'm rather surprised that she did come over. I made it clear that she was welcome to come here to heal but that there was no pressure. I actually expected her not to. I fussed over her for a while - undoubtedly too much and am now doing my regular Saturday housework. I'd planned on steak for dinner but I think it will be tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwiches.

I think that coming here while sick is a very big deal for her. She's feeling her age today and undoubtedly was always the one who cared for everyone else for most of her life. Her son and his kids are currently living elsewhere so she was alone in her small apartment.

No underwear on the clothes line but another car in the driveway.

[job]

Hope B feels better soon. She may be feeling all of the above, but pollen is also blowing around outside this time of year too. But, I would venture to say that everything has caught up w/her and now her body is telling her it needs TLC for a while.

Funny how the cat is snoozing at her feet. Where is the other one? She may not be a true fan of cats, but this little lass is trying to win her over in her own way. LOL! You have to take a picture of them on that couch so that you can show her that cats aren't all bad.

I hope you don't catch whatever she's got.

[AndrewP]

B is feeling much better now thank you job. Her fever broke at around 3:30 / 4:00 am. I held her until she was sleeping normally. We did eventually both I think get a good night's sleep.

This morning we had a fairly serious R talk. I was confident that she was healthy enough for it and TBH - it's not anything that we've not talked generally about before. I told her that while I wasn't asking her to move in, that she was always welcome here. Long story short, she's going to be moving a bit at a time over the next few months. This is both scary and exciting for both of us. We talked a bit about navigating the S24 issues and she agrees that he is my concern and not her's although she intends to bake - something that is a passion of her's and expects that S24 will be won over. I need to talk to him over Sunday supper tonight and let him know what's going on. He's seen her in the evenings and the mornings and I expect won't be surprised.

I think B felt spoiled sleeping etc yesterday while I did the cleaning and cooking etc. The cleaning and cooking needed to be done regardless. And she was sick.

She was extra spoiled today as as usual I made us breakfast then bundled her off to the cast-iron tub to soak for a while and I did the dishes and not only the sheets from yesterday - which were hung outside to sterilize them in the sunshine, but also laundry that she'd brought over. Usually a soak in the tub for her is about 15 minutes. She was in mine for well over an hour - the taps can be manipulated by toes to add in warm water. I heard her talking to someone when I passed by to put laundry away - she was talking to one of her best friends who felt that B was being "very" spoiled. It's a running joke with us that she relaxes while I cook and clean and in fact this is what happens. B I know is itching to contribute and take a more active role.

This is going to be tough and require a lot of navigating. I believe that B is intending next weekend to sort out some of the things on her settlement. She's working nights this week and suggested that she stay here on Wednesday when I'm normally working from home. I firmly believe that this is the right choice for me even if in some ways I'm terrified. We're taking baby steps in seven league boots.

[Ginger1]

Hi friend!

I am going to keep quiet on my personal opinion, but there is a technicality I want you to look at for you and B’s sake.

Is it wise to move in before the divorce is final? That could affect a divorce settlement. It’s probably not wise until she is legally divorced. Or does she plan on keeping her current place and just stay with you all the time until she is legally divorced?

I would navigate these waters carefully. I don’t what the rush is, ( dude, this is super fast, but I promised to shut up) but don’t let the rush compromise the divorce settlement . For safety reasons, I would wait until the divorce is final.

[DnJ]

Hi Andrew

Pretty exciting news.

I know you will look into the legal aspect of this. In my province living arrangements, etc... make no difference to separation or divorce agreements.

However, I do have a question for you. Did you ever look into a cohabitation agreement - kind of like a prenuptial but it’s just for living together. I know you mentioned it before. I also spoke with a lawyer about that kind of thing, back during my separation. I was just wondering what you might have found out. I have a vague idea about it, and have no pressing need for one at the moment, just storing information away for future possible use.

Happy for you.

DnJ

[AndrewP]

Hi Ginger1 - I suspect that your opinion is buried under a large pile of 2X4s - most of which I could probably read out the labels on for you all the way from here

While I don't know for sure I think that it would be safe to assume that the fact that B is dating someone would complicate her settlement and co-habitating will make it even more complicated. Not for legal reasons, but more the emotional ones from her STBX. How that will all work out is anyone's guess but I personally expect that it will be a couple of years before everything is signed and done. From the little information I have, she is eligable for a pretty decent settlement. What she'll actually get is unknown. She did suggest that she'll be going through some of the property items next weekend.

DnJ - I did reach out to my lawyer a while ago as you may recall about cohabitation agreements. B and I have talked in general terms about shared costs and making sure that assets etc are kept separate. She has at present few assets but with her settlement and an inheritance that may change substantially. Or not.

I'll probably wait until the end of summer before doing anything official unless circumstances change.

--------------

S24 was actually quite startled when I told him that B will be moving in gradually over time. I think he appreciated the advance notice. Given the speed with which he then finished his dinner and headed up to his room his mother may or may not know now too. Literally none of my business though.

I heard from B a short while ago - she finished her first night shift of the week and is feeling reasonably good and is heading off to bed. Late night for me last night as often happens on a Sunday. Dragging this morning. Time to "hop" in to the shower and get to work.

[Ginger1]

It’s not even 2x4’s. It’s me sincerely having concerns about stuff you can’t see from the inside. I think they might make you upset and perhaps fall on deaf ears, so it’s not worth it.

Why years before the settlement is final?

And you can see why S24 is startled? It’s been barely 3 months? I’m startled, and I’m. Not your kid and I don’t live there.

I’m afraid you are rescuing her when she’s a big girl and could do her own rescuing. But I’m going to bite my tongue really hard ( very hard for me) and I’m going to trust you are not acting on pure emotion here and the cons and possibilities have been thoroughly weighed. That this was a very well thought out decision from a Logical point of view. Logical for you, and all you have and the life you built for yourself. Not just because she needs a place to live and you want her around all the time.

I see a whole lot being a nurse. Especially a case manager. So please, protect yourself in every which way possible. You’ve got a heart of gold, that I know. But you have to make sure you are doing right for yourself before you rescue women you’ve known for maybe 3 months .

I leave you with that, and I’ll go shut up now

[kml]

Yeah Andrew - I'd just add that it takes some time to really get to know somebody, and living together is different than dating.

Look, I dated crazy ex-bf for four years before it came out that he had another woman on the side. It was several months into dating CMM before I knew the depth of his estrangement from his daughters - and a few more months before I came to understand how he is likely the cause of that estrangement. (He's got a rigid OCD side and NO insight into the fact that he HAS OCD.

I'm not suggesting you'll find out anything that drastic about B, but watch for red flags. And remember that her moving in means having her kids in your life. And it's a lot easier to break up with somebody when it doesn't involve also evicting them from your home.

[kml]

I'd recommend at least 6 months of just spending weekends together until you decide if living together is right for you.

[AndrewP]

Ginger - I'll stop you when you're wrong ... ((G)) Thanks.

kml - Your comments are well taken. I'm not exactly sure when / how B will be moving in and expect that she's not sure yet either. We have talked honestly about things possibly not working out and there's an article I need to send over to her called "The Fvck Off Fund" - interesting bit of trivia - the author has a messed up financial life - easier to give advice than follow it

Looking at this in an honest and critical fashion - yes - I certainly agree that there is more than a bit of princess rescuing going on (am I Mario or Luigi?). There is the artificial deadline of the end of June for her to be out of her current apartment which is absolutely artificial. She could move elsewhere or even extend her stay. It's a month-to-month setup and not a lease.

Are we actually ready for this? Probably not. Would more time dating, and spending time together be wise? Probably.

Looking at my own entrails as I have a tendency to do - other than the unknown that would mean a "no" - I can't really see anything that would make it more of a "yes" by waiting further.

B is planning on spending more time at the house. She's made it clear that for the present that she will "not" be in the house unless I am as well. She's on nights this week and is planning on staying over Wednesday through the day while I'm working from home.

B has also said that she fully intends to have first and last month's rent saved up and set aside. Just in case.

I am both excited and terrified. Thank you all for riding along and reminding me to keep my arms and legs fully inside the vehicle at all times.

[TBSakaJ9]

A - your a grown man, as long as your aware and the blinders are off proceed as you feel. I would agree that you do seem to be rescuing her to a degree just based on what you type.

[job]

Andrew,

Maybe is now a good time to advise that young lady that it might be time to think about moving her stuff out of your house, i.e., especially if B is slowly going to be moving some things in.

[AndrewP]

Andrew,

Maybe is now a good time to advise that young lady that it might be time to think about moving her stuff out of your house, i.e., especially if B is slowly going to be moving some things in.

LOL - I'll send her a note today reminding her that she also has a left-over piece of birthday cake in my freezer. B and I both think that the front porch will become a nice place to sit and have a nice cuppa and watch the world go by - when it can be used again.

[AndrewP]

Lord, What fools these mortals be

Appropriate quote I suppose given this forum.

B gave me a call before my bed time / her work time last night from her bathtub and unsolicited and sort of "matter of fact" gave me some details of her STBX's affair just as part of making conversation and because she is planning on seeing him this weekend as she had mentioned before generally. I knew a fair bit already - we've both shared quite a bit of our respective back stories. It just made me shake my head. When they were in in-house separation I believe that he was free with details and still is - no clue why.

The affair has been going on for probably 2+ years now. The woman involved is still married, still living in the matrimonial home and claims to be sleeping on the top bunk of her teen-aged son's bunk bed. In all that time, they have only gotten together "once" about 18 months ago (who knows) and presumably "true love" is stalled for unknown reasons.

I mean - really???? You throw away a spouse, a family, decades of a life built together for that??? And this was his second affair. You'd think that even though he's a bit older that he would be getting some serious nookie or at least wife-appliance house-keeping out of the deal.

On the other hand, like many here, I still have disbelief of what my own spouse walked away from and for not much more as it turned out. Not that I'm what the social media director for the Museum of English Rural Life would call an "absolute unit" but I have all my own teeth and a silky coat of fur.

B is planning a busy weekend, first visiting one of her sons and then back up to the marital home where she and her STBX will be sorting out possessions. Undoubtedly spurred by the thought that she has a place to put them. She says that it's all amicable and there won't be any issues. I expect her to show up on Sunday night with her car stuffed to the gills with boxes and totes. She also said that the next door neighbour is aware she's coming up and she has that as a safe/quiet place to retreat to. She had mentioned that she might be staying in the guest room at the house but then suggested that she would stay with a girlfriend instead.

I have no reason to doubt that things will go as planned and they're not my plans. Fingers crossed.

[job]

You better start making room for B's stuff or y'all will be making paths to get around in the rooms. LOL! Seriously, drop that young lady a note and advise her that she needs to come get her stuff and give her a drop dead date to do so.

[AndrewP]

You better start making room for B's stuff or y'all will be making paths to get around in the rooms. LOL! Seriously, drop that young lady a note and advise her that she needs to come get her stuff and give her a drop dead date to do so.

I was talking to 20S yesterday. Even the enticement of an entire piece of frozen left-over birthday cake didn't inspire her too much to come visit right away. She did say that she and her boyfriend have been house-hunting. She was very happy to hear that B and I are talking cohabitation and she was the one to bring up the topic of her stuff.

Given the scale of stuff that my ex-wife took plus what I packed up there is probably room for lots even without turning the house in to a hoarder's den again.

It will all work out. Getting S24 off is butt to get a better job so that he can become independent is a bigger issue. I think he's currently got the "grumpies" due to the surprise that B will be moving in and also due to the fact that he's not getting any work to speak of this week. Maybe that will help motivate him. There are plenty of jobs out there even for a young man with no degree or driver's license.

[kml]

You'd think that even though he's a bit older that he would be getting some serious nookie or at least wife-appliance house-keeping out of the deal.

Lolol. Pretty sure he's lying about they got together "one time", and pretty sure his OW is lying to him about which bed she is sleeping in. Sounds like her STBX got taken for a real ride.

But people do crazy things in MLC. My ex dumped an intelligent, pretty, easy-going, loving and supportive wife and what he himself admitted was an excellent sex life (His exact words: "i'm afraid I won't have sex this good again") to pursue the illusion of youth and immortality. I don't know that he regrets it - he seems pretty happy now with his young wife - but I do imagine he sometimes wonders if it was all worth it.

[AndrewP]

But people do crazy things in MLC. My ex dumped an intelligent, pretty, easy-going, loving and supportive wife and what he himself admitted was an excellent sex life (His exact words: "i'm afraid I won't have sex this good again") to pursue the illusion of youth and immortality. I don't know that he regrets it - he seems pretty happy now with his young wife - but I do imagine he sometimes wonders if it was all worth it.

Yeah. B as I've mentioned has "bonus curves" and some odd things going on because of the large amount of weight she put on and then lost in the last 4 or 5 years combined with some significant abdominal scars from her childhood. But her smile .... and her passion is beyond anything I would have imagined. Makes me feel sorry for my ex-wife's OM as he most certainly got the other side of that particular bell curve. My ex - possibly reluctantly - dumped a man who doted on her and was a solid "lighthouse" and who accepted her hoarding, temper and low sex drive as "just one of those things". I certainly learned how to jump through hoops to please another bed partner which B seems to be very appreciative of.

In my case my ex left me for someone older and marginally better off financially who she still as far as I know hasn't managed to catch.

I just sent B off to work on her night shift complete with a packed lunch after the light dinner I cooked. Not sure when we'll get together next. A certain amount of guess-work was required on the lunch contents. Carrot sticks, PB&J sandwich, and 3 hard-boiled eggs. The last 2 I know are a common part of the lunches she makes for herself and I had carrots and not broccoli which she usually packs. I joked that it wasn't a competition to see who could spoil the other because I'd obviously win

She's had a long few days - I certainly know my way around my kitchen (pork chops tonight for those playing the home game) so a bit of extra cooking and lunch making certainly didn't put me out while she was having an afternoon nap which still gave her a sleep shortfall for the day.

And "yes" he is still single. Sort of. Kind of. Not really.

[Dawn70]

You better start making room for B's stuff or y'all will be making paths to get around in the rooms. LOL! Seriously, drop that young lady a note and advise her that she needs to come get her stuff and give her a drop dead date to do so.

I was talking to 20S yesterday. Even the enticement of an entire piece of frozen left-over birthday cake didn't inspire her too much to come visit right away. She did say that she and her boyfriend have been house-hunting. She was very happy to hear that B and I are talking cohabitation and she was the one to bring up the topic of her stuff.

Given the scale of stuff that my ex-wife took plus what I packed up there is probably room for lots even without turning the house in to a hoarder's den again.

It will all work out. Getting S24 off is butt to get a better job so that he can become independent is a bigger issue. I think he's currently got the "grumpies" due to the surprise that B will be moving in and also due to the fact that he's not getting any work to speak of this week. Maybe that will help motivate him. There are plenty of jobs out there even for a young man with no degree or driver's license.

You're so funny. I love that you are such a genuinely nice person and that you really do NOT want to do anything but take care of others. As long as you brush off 20S and give her excuses like having lots of room due to clearing out XW's stuff, she is going to continue to leave her stuff. It is so not in your nature to just call her up and say you have until this date to get your crap or I'm packing it off to a thrift store (or the dump or give it away or whatever). But, here's the thing, Andrew. I'm not saying 20S is using you, but people her age do not seem overly-motivated to do things even when it is specifically related TO THEM. She's going to keep leaving her stuff as long as you allow it. It may not seem like a big deal, but it really kind of is. You were very kind to offer her a rent-free storage space for her stuff, but at some point, she has to either move into her own space or get rid of it. The fact that it has been in your house for some time tells me that, obviously, it really isn't stuff that has a lot of use or significance to her, so why store it for her? Because you are nice.

As far as S24, you know how I feel about all that. You are a fantastic dad. You are a stand-up guy in general, but you are a really great dad. You are rescuer and a caretaker. I find it interesting that now that you and B are moving toward cohabitation, getting S24 out has suddenly become a bigger priority, but it doesn't surprise me. I have said before and I will continue to believe that he is a GROWN MAN. He NEEDS to get his stuff together and get out. He doesn't seem particularly irresponsible, based on what you post. He's paid off student loans and kept a steady job, as best he can. But, he also does nothing around the house, save occasionally fix his own food and even then he leaves the mess for you to clean up; he smokes weed in your house; he doesn't have a driver's license (this particular one boggles my mind because I can't imagine a young man who doesn't want to get a driver's license). He just seems to lack general motivation to grow up and be independent. Honestly, being a responsible adult blows chunks sometimes and if I had the opportunity to live off of someone and have all my worries taken care of, I would likely do it just to get out from under responsibility (though for me, it wouldn't last long before I would need to get the F up out). I feel bad for his work situation because he does seem to want to work (no doubt a product of great parenting), but can't he find roommates or something to move with rather than living off you? I get that he's your son and you feel obligated to take care of him, but it is going to be awfully awkward when B moves in for y'all to be living with your grown son. (Awkward for him AND for y'all.)

I do get it, for the most part, because I am a lot like you in a lot of ways. And, as we have discussed before, I have a kind of ne'er-do-well daughter that wants to live off anyone else who will step up and care for her. If me or either of her biological parents would go for it, she would be living with one of us right now with her husband and 2 children in tow. I'm all for helping our kids and being there for them and supporting them emotionally, but I'm not about supporting them financially once they get to the full-on adult stage. I suspect your son is a little more productive than my daughter, just based on the fact that he does work and doesn't seem to necessarily accept money from you, at least not that you mentioned (and even if he does, none of my business....that is between y'all). I think it will all work out the way it is supposed to but I'm keeping his job prospects and his independence in my prayers for everyone's sake.

As far as him being grumpy about B moving in, well, it is YOUR house and until he starts contributing financially, he doesn't really have a right to get grumpy about anything house-related. If he wants a say, he needs to start ponying up some money. But, I know that won't happen and I get it. I can say that very easily from the outside, but if I was in your situation, I couldn't/wouldn't do it either.

Great job on B's lunch. I'm sure she appreciated what you packed for her. It is too sweet how you spoil her and I hope she appreciates it. You are NOT, in fact, single........................;)

[AndrewP]

For those playing the home game, you might be interested to know that CL seems to be moving forward with her life / divorce. She just changed her name in the last week or so on two of her four social media accounts to her maiden name and appears to currently be in NYC with at least her son (14?) for his birthday.

So that's about 6 months or so from when she got serious about her divorce and more or less dropped out of sight. No clue what the status of it is but presumably moving towards conclusion. On one hand I semi-regret not hanging around. On paper she certainly was a good match. Smart, well read, sassy, a fair bit younger than me, blonde, very attractive, good career, nice teeth. My relatives were certainly all in favour as did she herself. Given other things though in hindsight it was a good thing that it didn't work out between us. I do hope she's doing well but don't intend on reaching out. I expect that her life will continue to be "complex" for at least another 6 months.

B also has nice teeth and has sassy to spare.

B did mention to me yesterday that her plan to "amicably" sort out possessions this weekend might be a flop. It seems that her STBX called her while she was driving and had a series of "demands" that historically she would have been accommodating with but in this case she more or less just flipped him off. She did comment that the "stuff" involved generally really doesn't mean much to her because she's done without it for about 2 years now and doesn't really miss it.

We'll see. Just like CL's divorce I don't think things will be as amicable and easy as she expects. The geographical distance though I think helps give her mental distance.

It's interesting how my off-line diary is evolving. I've been taking to opening an entry and then putting down random thoughts through the day. Some days I miss all together but it seems to be an almost daily thing. Certainly lots more details, topics and more fully spelled names than I use here.

[AndrewP]

Well! Interesting day. My boss called me up around lunch time and told me that since it was quiet I should pack up, pick up some beer and head home. He didn't have to tell me twice so I'm home getting a head-start on the monthly full house clean by doing my ironing including my new company shirt. Odd how so many loose threads show up the first time you wash something. A metaphor I suppose

B is off to the marital home this weekend and talked to me for a long time while driving. I think she's stressed but feeling determined. I expect a number of boxes to be deposited in my laundry room possibly on Sunday evening. Talking to her reassured me that there really is no risk of a reconciliation attempt being entertained. I personally expect one to be made even if I believe that she doesn't think so.

When one door closes, another opens. That’s why there are so many raccoons living in your house.

Had a problem with S24 today which is why I'm here. Just want to write this out so that I see it in front of me.

I was enjoying the company mandated beer with the laundry started this afternoon when he came home unexpectedly. The "how was your day" took a turn when he took a breath and admitted that he quit his job recently. He apologized for lying to me about that which I accepted. He said that he was worried about how I would react. He said that he knew in his head how I'd react but had built it up as that I would freak out. For anyone who knows me, that was not my reaction. He knows that I'm disappointed in him for lying and I did accept his apology for that. He knows that I am more upset about the lie than what he was lying about. We discussed his options of which there are many. I did also tell him that he needed to reach out to his mother who I referred to as "someone I don't talk to" as she has lots of contacts or I presume she does. We also talked about him going back to school and both think that since he has nothing specific in mind that it would just be a waste of time and money. There are a number of venues that I have suggested to him in the past and some that he has in mind. I'll need to be positive and encouraging which is Dad-speak for nagging with a smile.

Personally I think that this will be a positive for him. With B progressively and fairly rapidly moving in here it will I hope be part of the encouragement for him to be independent. He absolutely wasn't getting there with the job he had. I reinforced the fact that I wasn't throwing him out and that from my point of view that this changed little. He can continue to cover the non-existent rent, he's got a fair amount of savings. I did suggest that he certainly could and perhaps should consider moving and specifically mentioned the village where his mother lives. There are more companies there and she could probably have an "in" presuming that she is still on friendly terms with everyone.

Le sigh.

I think I've done the right thing. I "am" too easy on him - we all know this including him. I do feel though that I am modeling to him what my vision of family is. You accept and support your family. Don't let them run roughshod over you. Lies are never necessary. I blame his mother for that last bit as she would lie regularly to smooth the path in front of her.

Back to my ironing.

[kml]

You're a good dad.
One question though - why did he quit?

[DnJ]

Good Morning Andrew

You are a good Dad, and you have a good son.

You might recall my S22 recently quit his farming/trucking job. So I’ll pass on my learnings, such as they are.

Quitting is a big decision for them. It is taking control of their life. And it not in a way that you or I would do it. Egad! Quitting a perfectly fine and paying job without another one in place.

Go with his decision (you don’t have much choice anyhow). I mean discover his reasoning and celebrate it with him. Seriously, he felt strongly enough to quit, so it must be big for him. Let him know you support him. Encourage!

My son also was hesitant about telling me. He was contemplating a big change in life and didn’t know how to break the news to me or himself. This is a huge step for a young adult. See just how big a scope of change he is considering and encourage it, even expand on it. Trust this, he made the first step and is looking for support and guidance even if he doesn’t know that.

My son, after the dust settled, quit, moved out to city 2 hours away, with no job, rented an apartment, even bought a whisk , found a job (lot less money than previous job), and is happy.

Sons, young adult children, they aren’t looking for money, stability, or things we would look for - they are looking for themselves. Help them find it.

I am, as of last night, doing the same thing with S18. He is wanting to quit his local grocery store job and get a full time job in city where university is located. Work for the summer, and then of course live in that city and go to university. That’s a big step in his life.

Listen and encourage their plan.

I’m pretty sure you had this figured out. Just assuring and encouraging you.

DnJ

[AndrewP]

You're a good dad.
One question though - why did he quit?

Listen and encourage their plan.

I’m pretty sure you had this figured out. Just assuring and encouraging you.

Thank you both.

S24 when he first told me he was wanting to quit back in December said that the main reason was that his boss constantly put him down and belittled him, telling him he was stupid etc. With S24's pride and temper - very like his mother's - this was hard for him to take. So it wasn't a huge shock to me.

I do think that this may well along with the "B situation" inspire him more to put himself out there. I do actually hope that his mother steps up and more actively helps him. Doing this on my own is much more difficult. Even though I don't have to do much active parenting, I have an even larger amount of respect for the single parents out there. When I mentioned that I was wondering where we would put the bunkbed set that B has for visiting grandkids, he suggested that his room may be available shortly. We'll see.

He has a fair amount of money in the bank, numerous marketable skills, there's still a labour shortage here where if you can fog a mirror you can get a job. If he makes an effort, he can do this and he knows that I am behind him cheering him on. I did mention that the brewery which is a slightly shorter walk than where he was working may well need someone especially since the owners are not well and it's coming in to the busy season.

Off to get my hair cut and errands and fresh flowers. I heard from B - she's working through things and sounded very positive.

[AndrewP]

Exhausted after a busy weekend. My boss sent me home early on Friday - it was a quiet day and for a change I took him up on it - and got my ironing done.

Busy weekend. I bought a new basic charcoal BBQ and assembled it late Saturday - sausages for supper. Lots of cleaning was done as it was the first weekend of the month. On Sunday I got my grass cut for the first time this year and noticed that my rhubarb seems to be coming in fairly strongly - I was worried as it didn't do well last year after I divided it the prior fall. I did steaks (in the broiler) with baked potatoes and a mushroom gravy that I'm getting good at for Sunday supper. S24 was out with 20S but came home in time for dinner which I appreciated.

My flower beds have been cleaned out and I took off the top 4" of soil and mixed it in with fresh compost from the bottom of the compost barrel. Lots of egg-shells that haven't broken down so I made sure everything was well mixed. It's surprising in some ways how little actual composting seems to have been done in the barrel but I think that much of what I see above the bottom 8" or so was actually from this past winter. I planted some sunflower seeds from the bird feeder. One of those grew accidentally a few years ago into a cute little miniature sunflower so I've been doing it on purpose now. Odd how the commercial sunflowers are so different from what you would normally see.

I did get out on Sunday for soup at the cafe and mentioned to my friend there that B is moving in which made her squeal and run over and give me a giant hug which was very unexpected. She's not a hug sort of person generally.

One of my neighbours - my ex's boss in fact - asked me if I'd gotten a new car and I said no - I have a friend who stays over from time to time. Didn't seem to phase her at all.

20S did come by on Sunday afternoon, gave me a big hug and went through none of her stuff. Shortly after she left picking up S24, B drives in.

It's weird how B is so relaxed and on good terms with her STBX. I did have a part of me that was concerned that she would go up and not come back but she does seem to have cut that cord. I do think that this trip did her a lot of good as a sort of "goodbye" to that place and that life. She even mentioned that her little dog - while happy to see her was much more attached to her STBX than her.

Stuff's getting real. We loaded a half-dozen boxes of stuff in to the laundry room. The moving in is beginning. It's somewhat terrifying. We then sat out in the back yard and chatted for a while both about her weekend and about the future. It's weird how in many ways neither of us are as heavily invested in "making it work" as might be expected. B talks openly about the fact that if after a few months it's not working that she'll go off on own her separate way. And I'm ok with that. Is this perhaps a more normal healthy dynamic for a mature relationship? I don't know. She did say that she wants to pay her own fair share and I got a bit more idea of what sort of financial mess she is in. My take was that we would wait to see what extra costs are incurred by her being there and go from there. My plan isn't to have her contribute to the mortgage / pay rent etc. Those costs are modest and fixed regardless of who is in the house. Certainly co-mingling of finances is very not on the table.

The fact is that I've gotten pretty used to living alone for the last 3 years. I'm a creature of routine and stability. I'm going to have to be flexible as new routines are established. B is staying over from Tuesday evening through Thursday morning. She doesn't want to be at the house when I'm not there and so this works. I expect that this will be the routine for the next while. This coming weekend she has one of her grandkids with her and there is birthday party and mother's day stuff so she probably will be living out of her apartment still. She and her son have given notice that they are moving out. So yeah - stuff's getting real.

I suppose that it's only reasonable that I'm nervous about all this. And the end of June is coming up FAST even if she waits until then to fully move in.

[kml]

I bought a new basic charcoal BBQ and assembled it late Saturday

Fun fact - I went to see the Violent Femmes last night and the drummer was playing a couple of stand-up drums and.....a Weber grill!

[Dawn70]

I'm excited for you and B, how things are progressing. I get what you are saying about neither of you being heavily invested in "making it work". I felt that same thing with Sparky early on. I liked him and he liked me, but I was not so all consumed with him that I thought oh my, if this doesn't work, I'm done for. It was nice to be able to just relax and enjoy the early stages that led us to where we are now without the pressure of having to label stuff and have all these serious talks and such. Our relationship evolved naturally without us having to stress and I think that may likely be something that happens when a more mature couple begins dating. I think that we are not in as big a hurry to "settle down" because we already did that. I mean, Sparky and I are waiting a year to get married, basically, after we dated for an entire year. There's no rush. We know we are going to be together. We know we love each other. We know we want to get married. It will all happen in its own time, but there is no urgency involved because we are not having kids or anything like that. Maybe that is kind of what you and B are going through as well.

Sparky and I were JUST joking this past weekend that the best part of our current status is that we have not once been asked "so when are y'all planning on having kids?" Been there, done that, got the t-shirts!

[AndrewP]

Today's the big day. And yes, I'm stressing about the most minor of things like B wanting coffee first thing in the morning and the fact that the cats will probably be demanding to be fed as she does it. She's just staying a couple of nights this week - not sure what the plans are for the weekend as there is some unrelated turmoil at Chez B that have changed her original plans of being busy there. I do expect her to be spending at least a good part of Sunday with her kids as it will be Mother's Day here. An event that I no longer recognize as my own mother passed many years ago and my kids mother isn't part of my life.

I do personally believe that any relationship that S24 has with his mother is a pretty superficial one and that the odds are good that she has no idea that he's quit his job. I'm even suspecting that he won't be seeing his mother on Mother's Day. I did read back to last year and he did spend the afternoon with her then.

Which leads me to today's question. I'm struggling with this one.

I'll be sending my ex her monthly payment probably on Saturday which as an e-transfer includes the opportunity to include a note. The respondent can also send a note but other than once when I "poked the bear" last August on what would have been our 29th anniversary she never responds - not even with a "thanks".

I'm thinking of including beyond the usual "Spousal Support May 2019" something like "If you could encourage and assist S24 with his job search it would be greatly appreciated". I'm not intending to open a dialogue and I don't want to offend S24 by bypassing him to get to his mother. Keeping my nose out of it though means that not all of the resources that could be brought to bear to help S24 achieve his own goal of being independent.

Thoughts?

[job]

Andrew,

I wouldn't add that note at this time. I would give your son just a wee bit more time to find a new job. If your son spends some time with his mother this Sunday, he may very well tell her that he quit his job. Continue to encourage him. I do not think his mother is in the best possible spot at the moment to help him. If she were, she would have been encouraging him to get his driver's license.

Hang in there!

[Dawn70]

Totally agree with job. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING. Andrew, my dear sweet man, your son is TWENTY-FOUR not 4 or even 14. He's no longer a child so whatever he does or does not tell his mother is between the 2 of them. While you will always be linked to her because of your children, you are no longer tied together, so quit worrying yourself with whatever is going on with he and his mother. She may or may not be in a place to help him and even if she is, he may not take it so well from her, but again, that is between them and you need to let that be. At this point, your ONLY obligation to her is spousal support. You are not required to do anything where your son is concerned. At what point do you step back and let S24 take the responsibility for his own independence instead of trying to navigate it for him? If he asks for help and you can give it, give it. If he doesn't, let him figure it out. I say all of that knowing that is not in your nature, but seriously, you are a great dad, but you can't continue to do it for him or he will never gain independence.

[AndrewP]

Thanks job and Dawn for talking me back. I'll keep my mouth shut - as hard as that is for me

Now - what to call my new thread? I think the Sunday Supper is about done and I don't feel like doing the dishes just yet.

[AndrewP]

New thread - Flying without instruments

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2848408&#Post2848408