It’s been a while—been super-busy: grading, taking care of the boys, trying to GAL (swimming most of my weekdays, softball is a go later this month, and I will hopefully be a chaperone on our school’s Italy trip in April 2020). We’ve also been sick, and I’ve had to do legal paperwork—declaration of assets / debts, as well as income paperwork, so that consumed most of my weekend / latter part of last week. These are just the highlights—I could expand more in-depth later, but not now (taking a break from writing a student letter of recommendation).
Next week (Thursday), W and I have a mediation appt for custody / visitation. Sounds great for Holy Week! And my birthday is Holy Saturday / Easter Vigil, so happy birthday to me!
We do have a court date for April 30th, but L is requesting a continuance (which should be for 1st week of July).
With respect to mediation, W talked with me tonight. She said she forgives me for anything that I’ve done to her to make her angry—she’s no longer angry with me, although it is her opinion that I’m mad / angry with her.
I know I need to preface this with a tall, cold glass of BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY, but I gotta run this past the forum (as well as L, but she’s not awake right now and I will email tomorrow morning):
So, according to W, FWIW: W wants to talk with me before we go to mediation on Thursday. According to her: The judges / family law courts are extremely biased towards the mothers, and in Orange County, a judge supposedly turned to a mother with a known history of substance abuse issues and granted her 100% custody and then turned to the father and asked him why he deserves visitation. W also claims that she will present to the mediator the times when she has wanted to talk with me and I haven’t been cooperative with her.
My first thought was, hmmmm.....if that’s the case, then should I have in mind: her threats to evict me from the condo, her threats to up and take the boys from me, her declaring me (to my face and in legal paperwork) a flight risk.
To me, this sounds absolutely nuts.
Luckily, L and I have a phone convo on Wednesday, going over what to expect, and L already provided to me a list of talking points for mediation (outlining proposals for custody / visitation).
I did my best to, as LH previously put it, validate and move on, but W can’t be possibly be serious about any of what she said? What she is talking about sounds absolutely freaking ludicrous.
I guess I'm confused as to why she is threatening you. What does she want? I would make it crystal fuching clear you are not budging on 50/50 and if she wants to go to court and waste thousands of dollars that have at it.
This isn't the 1950s. Courts understand that children especially boys need a father figure in their lives.
I read once that 90% of males in jail had little to no father figure.
Also, if you have to drop a little hint that you know what she's hiding from you (because she is) and you will do everything in your power to get 50/50 custody.
I guess I'm confused as to why she is threatening you. What does she want? I would make it crystal fuching clear you are not budging on 50/50 and if she wants to go to court and waste thousands of dollars that have at it.
This isn't the 1950s. Courts understand that children especially boys need a father figure in their lives.
I read once that 90% of males in jail had little to no father figure.
IMO, she is issuing threats to try to frighten Bo into submission...
I guess I'm confused as to why she is threatening you. What does she want? I would make it crystal fuching clear you are not budging on 50/50 and if she wants to go to court and waste thousands of dollars that have at it.
Not totally sure what she wants right now—other than the fact that she wants to know my emotional state (“how are you doing, how are you feeling,” etc.). For someone who doesn’t want to be my W, she sure wants to know what’s going on inside. She kinda lost out on that when she fired me as H.
The threats came mostly before earlier this week (so, starting from January onward)—threats about her evicting me from our residence, her up and taking the kids, blah blah blah. Very little of what she claims would come to pass actually has.
Now? I’m guessing the threat is that if I don’t negotiate with her before mediation, I could lose out on custody / visitation.
She also claims that she will hold my prior ‘unwillingness’ to work with her against me in mediation—to be fair, if I need to, I can probably use her threats towards me against her, or when she would to OS that she ‘already has one sick baby and doesn’t need another.’ I pay attention to stuff like that and document it.
Originally Posted by LH19
This isn't the 1950s. Courts understand that children especially boys need a father figure in their lives.
I read once that 90% of males in jail had little to no father figure.
I sure hope the courts realize that. The boys need their Daddy.
My L told me previously that the courts in our jurisdiction to tend to be rather fair, so I’ll trust her on this one. But I’ll admit it’s difficult to hear this from W in any event, which leads to what Vapo said below....
Originally Posted by Vapo
IMO, she is issuing threats to try to frighten Bo into submission...
Vapo, you’re probably right on this one.
The thing is, is that that approach hasn’t really worked with me—I think I’ve held much more firm with her person-to-person than I would have (though I do talk about my private thoughts / fears here in the forum). As mentioned above, few (if any) of her threats have actually come to pass. I’d like for it to stay that way.
Mediation for custody / visitation is tomorrow (Thursday). L presented to me some talking points / custody arrangements late last week—this afternoon, after classes, L and I are having a convo to go over those points, as well as what to expect in mediation (generally), as well as address some recent questions / concerns I have in response (or in addition to) her talking points.
In a previous thread, I mentioned that L told me that we could switch judges, otherwise known as ‘papering’ a judge. We ended up doing that—the case has been reassigned to a new judge (a male judge, FWIW, if it means anything). L told me that the original judge was a fine enough person, but judicially a wild card in terms of her rulings, and she said that ‘literally anyone else’ would be better. Now, W / STBXW and her L also have that right to ‘paper’ a judge—we’ll find out if that is the case soon enough I’m sure.
We also have a continuance for the court date—was supposed to be April 30th, has now been pushed all the way back to August 5th. Hopefully this means that we can mediate this out over the summer, as well as protects my rights with respect to visitation, residency, and property. I’m sure that can be a topic, as well.
W still wants to know what my near-future plans are. For someone who has threatened to move out around May 1st, I haven’t seen much in terms of packing / rounding up possessions.
Incredibly, she wants to know if I’m switching jobs, if I would leave the state of CA and take the boys, or leave the state of CA without the boys, or whatever. Unreal. I have told her next to nothing about my near-term plans—the only thing I said in response was “I have no plans on leaving my current position” (which is true, I’m quite happy where I’m at, and will be completing my 5th year of teaching, both in general, and at my current school).
I’m sure there is more, but I can respond as necessary with questions / comments (I really, really don’t feel well today, and am glad that today is a half-day, as well as convo with L this afternoon). Wish me luck for tomorrow!
W still wants to know what my near-future plans are. For someone who has threatened to move out around May 1st, I haven’t seen much in terms of packing / rounding up possessions.
Incredibly, she wants to know if I’m switching jobs, if I would leave the state of CA and take the boys, or leave the state of CA without the boys, or whatever. Unreal. I have told her next to nothing about my near-term plans—the only thing I said in response was “I have no plans on leaving my current position” (which is true, I’m quite happy where I’m at, and will be completing my 5th year of teaching, both in general, and at my current school).
I’m sure there is more, but I can respond as necessary with questions / comments (I really, really don’t feel well today, and am glad that today is a half-day, as well as convo with L this afternoon). Wish me luck for tomorrow!
Bo,
Just tell her your plans are to take care of yourself and your boys, otherwise don't respond to her probing. She keeps bringing up questioning you moving which may be her projecting her wants/desires to move..... who knows what she wants or what she is hiding just keep on your path.
Also, remember this is just mediation its not set in stone. If YOU don't agree with something, if it compromises YOUR values then don't settle. You can negotiate, but capitulation won't win her back or get her on your side. This a big step in fighting for what your future and your boys future will look like post-D. Good Luck. I will say a prayer for you.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Just tell her your plans are to take care of yourself and your boys, otherwise don't respond to her probing.
I’ve said something to this extent, as well—something along the lines of ‘I want to create the best future / life possible for me and the boys,’ and it’s driven her nuts because she wants to know specifics. When she presses me, I repeat myself.
Originally Posted by Twofeet
Also, remember this is just mediation its not set in stone. If YOU don't agree with something, if it compromises YOUR values then don't settle.
The custody / visitation that L proposes look fair enough, I suppose. I didn’t see anything about W maintaining full / primary custody while YS breast-feeds, which I consider good for me.
Originally Posted by Twofeet
You can negotiate, but capitulation won't win her back or get her on your side. This a big step in fighting for what your future and your boys future will look like post-D. Good Luck. I will say a prayer for you.
I appreciate the good thoughts / prayers, TF.
I’m not looking to win her back or get her on my side. She gave up that consideration when she brought up separation, and especially now with being served D papers.
During a recent discussion with W, she talked about how she wants me ‘to be a partner, whatever happens between us,’ and blah blah blah.
I told her, straight up, that I’m willing to be a co-parent with her, but I’m not looking to be her friend.
Internally, my thoughts have been I can make friends; I wanted a wife.
FWIW, during a session with LMFT on Monday, his impression of W was that she seems to be ‘naive’ about all this, and believes that all this can be done super easily, with little to no effects or mess. I do have the impression that W thought I would cave and give in and do whatever she wanted, and so far, I pretty much haven’t. I’ve gone so far off her supposed script for me that it really has to bother her, but whatever to what she thinks. I’ve given up a lot for her during our MR, but that has stopped with her talk of S / D.
I am so, so glad and so, so grateful for the advice from my L, as well as the people here, on turning down / rejecting her original bird-nesting arrangement, because I think about how much extra time that has given me under the roof with our 2 boys (she first proposed it in early January, it’s now mid-April, so I’ve had an extra 3.5 months that I wouldn’t have had with them if I just caved in to her original demands).
That’s not the way this works—since my hand is being forced, now I want to play for keeps.
I’ve also been much more mindful recently of what a post-D life will look like; it will be interesting, and hopefully better than what came before. I went swimming and took OS to the pool at our complex this past Sunday—I took off my wedding band before we went in, so I wouldn’t lose it like I almost did at my school’s pool a couple of weeks ago. It was off for a couple of hours before I even noticed it was missing, and once I did, I kept it off until I went to work / school the next morning.
Whatever our problems have been during our MR, I did not want D, or even ask for it. But since she’s asked for it, I will give her the freedom that she supposedly wants, and not anything more than I am legally entitled to give.
Good Luck Bo. Im sorry things didn't work out for you. But im glad you decided to stand strong on your identity, your principles, and your values. Someone else will come along that appreciates them, and for who you are. I hope you transition well.
Good Luck Bo. Im sorry things didn't work out for you. But im glad you decided to stand strong on your identity, your principles, and your values. Someone else will come along that appreciates them, and for who you are. I hope you transition well.
Thanks, IHC. I’ve been trying to stand strong on who I am, and what I believe.
I also do hope that, in time, someone else will appreciate my values, and who I am, and not just what I can give her or do for her. I was explaining some recent developments to a retiring, divorced / remarried / annulled female co-worker, and she told me that I deserve so much better, and that I really need to find someone who will be so much better for me. In time, yes—though I know that I am nowhere close to dating right now (and I told her as much).
Thanks for the support! I’ll try to hit some of the highlights below.
In mediation yesterday, W came up with a parenting schedule for the next 2 full months. She reiterated to me and the mediator that she fully intends on moving out on May 2 (more on that later). She outlined who gets who when, and wanted YS full-time because of breastfeeding. The reasoning behind that for her is that milk production is the best when he nurses—can’t get the same with a pump.
My response? I told her and the mediator that I also want joint custody—but that when I have the boys, I have both of them, 50% of the time, including YS. (Basically, what LH said in a post—make it ‘crystal fuching clear’ that I would not budge off 50/50.) I then propose what my L drew up, with regards to custody / visitation (a 2/2/3 schedule), and her and the mediator looked it over. W would be willing to be without YS for at most one night because she is concerned about the milk supply—but then after thinking it over, she proposed the following: That when I have YS for 3 straight nights, that she comes over to the condo, has dinner with us, breastfeeds YS, helps put the boys to bed, and then when the boys are in bed / asleep, she leaves. I told her that that sounds reasonable, but that I would have to run it past L to make sure that it sounds kosher. W acknowledged that this could lead to some attachment issues for her and the boys (‘why does Mommy not stay?’). While that would [bleep], it would be temporary, and unfortunately, I find it to be one of several, natural consequences of a D. This is what happens, so we would have to deal. Feel free to wail away with 2x4’s if this sounds like cake-eating on her part.
I’m guessing that we only really agreed to the next 2 months, it looks like. Mediator looked over L’s proposal, and she said it sounds pretty standard.
My thoughts on her supposedly moving out on May 2nd? Well, they are myriad, and I’m probably caring about this way more than I should. To be fair, she said earlier this month that she would be out in a week—hasn’t happened. At various points this winter (from January onward) she said she would leave and up and take the boys—hasn’t happened. Very few of her threats have come to pass so far. I know—BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY.
So, May 2nd is a full work-day for me—school, and then I’m chaperoning our prom that night, so in reality if she does leave, then I would come home late that night to a house devoid of everyone—that would be her first night with the boys, supposedly. Also, she would have the full day to move her stuff out—whatever she is taking. Either it’s really smart of her to do it then, or it’s rather cowardly on her part since she doesn’t have to face me, but I guess on the flipside, it could serve to spare me emotionally.
Supposedly, she doesn’t want much from our current residence—except for some ‘family’ items of heirloom quality. I’m guessing she would take her stuff (clothes, personal effects, etc.), some family possessions, as well as the dressers for the boys (belonged to her and her sister), as well as a long bookcase her dad made. I would keep the crib, OS’ bed, our couch and loveseat (both of which I’ve wanted to replace for a long time, tbh) and our current bed (king-size memory-foam bed heck yeah!). (Kinda like the line from the Kelly Clarkson song—the bed feels warmer, sleeping here alone. I know this next thought is contrary to my values, and I shouldn’t concern myself with dating anytime soon, but my thought then went to—well, plenty of room and comfort for whoever next sleeps in that bed next to me! Okay, I’m done there.)
We’re inside of 2 weeks from this ‘deadline,’ and I haven’t seen much evidence of her packing stuff up yet. I know—I shouldn’t be concerned about what she does—rather, I should be concerned about what I’m going to do next. Where I’m concerned is with respect to the lease on our current place. We are both on the lease, and while I’m sure the lease would be assigned to me when things go final in the decree / judgment and assignment of assets / debts / obligations, I do wonder what her liability for that will be from the time she moves out until the decree / judgment is final. This is most likely a question for L.
This is just me venting / journaling, but: With her taking very little of what we have, what that means is that she is getting stuff and furnishings from someone / somewhere else. TF told me earlier to not worry about this, and he’s right—but man, I do wonder who will be paying for the stuff in her new place. Her mom? Her dad? Someone else? Like in most of our MR, someone bails her out. Shouldn’t worry about it, but it’s just unreal.
I then wonder about telling the kids, then, in the next 2 weeks. Obviously I do want to be part of the convo, but I’m gonna let her set this up—she wants this, so she will need to drive the train on this.
I’m sure there’s more, but this is for starters. Thanks for the well-wishes, everyone!
Glad to hear the negotiations went well Bo! I'm surprised your W backed off the insistence that she keep YS full time. It sounds like she knew you were going to object (I think you had mentioned it before) and had already formulated another option. That's good, shows that she is taking you seriously and not just trying to walk all over you.
Glad to hear the negotiations went well Bo! I'm surprised your W backed off the insistence that she keep YS full time. It sounds like she knew you were going to object (I think you had mentioned it before) and had already formulated another option. That's good, shows that she is taking you seriously and not just trying to walk all over you.
Thanks, AS.
I’ve said in the forum before that her having YS full-time would be unacceptable to me, and I’m sure I’ve said it to her, as well.
I also wonder if my L told her L something similar—that the judge wouldn’t go for it, in the event that this goes to a hearing in August.
Also, what my L told me is that the judge to whom our case has been reassigned, tends to be rather pro-dad. She’s been practicing law in OC for over 20 years, and the judges tend to be very 50-50, and this judge is probably no exception.
It’s nice to hear that with W threatening that I’m gonna lose out because the courts side with the mother.
W and I had a conversation over some of what we discussed at mediation last week.
She still holds fast to the fact that I’m a flight risk......before she signs anything for the court rescinding that language, what she wants from me is: 1.) off of our current lease (more on that), 2.) a school contract / agreement for me for next year, 3.) she wants me to answer questions with ‘yes’ or ‘no’ whenever she wants those answers.
Apparently she will contact the leasing company tomorrow to ask about getting off of our current lease. I will be talking about some of the mediation points with L tomorrow; this will also be a talking point, too. I don’t think it will be as simple as her asking to get off of the lease; at first she asked me if I would contact the leasing company (I said nothing in response to that).
W asked me that if there is paperwork I need to sign to get her off of the lease, will I sign it? Me: We’ll see.
W also told me “this move is happening” on May 2nd—she plans on telling OS on Wednesday, and I told her I want to be there when she tells him.
Man, I’m going to hate that conversation.
Her dad is over this week (yeah W and I basically had this conversation right in front of him), and he and I took OS to the park earlier this afternoon. I held OS’ hand for most of the walk there; towards the end of our time at the park, he wanted to go someplace, and he just said to me ‘Will you follow me, Dada?,’ and I melted inside—how could I say no to that? So I went with him. I’m positively sick about missing time with YS—God, I’m gonna hate that. I love that little guy so much, too.
Will be talking with L on Tuesday morning about mediation points, plus talking about lease.
Any suggestions / advice for how to handle the conversation with OS? I’ve seen some stuff before, but I would appreciate a refresher.
As much as my heart breaks for the boys, and I’m also sure that this will be hard financially, I am also looking forward to being rid of her crazy. I know—I’ve seen the post about the view from the WAS perspective, and I know I could have been a better spouse / husband at times, but the last 3.5 months of the drama, the various threats by her, the slandering of my character to my face and in court documents, her calling me ‘deceptive’ repeatedly....I’m kinda done with her.
Drop the rope, throw it on the ground, and find a path that suits your personal needs and goals. Thats what important now.
I informed my kids, well my D5 (S2 has no idea what is up and down anyways), about our coming split, and basically I think it went as well as I could had hoped for. So here are my thoughts on the matter.
1. Do not by any means try and make this a blame game (we are splitting up and its all moms fault because she is a btch....) This is not your kids battle, and never should be.
2. Allow your kids to be curious, sad, happy, exited and whatever else comes to them, when they hear what is going on.
3. In extension of advice 1: Do instead of playing the game of blame, focus on the fact that you are two loving parents, and you always will be. You will always be there for them.
For my own situation, we informed our daughter that we are always her parents, that we love her so very very much, and that will never change. We are no longer in love, and will be moving to two separate houses in the near future, where she will have her own room, and that she will be living with both daddy and mommy but not at the same time. She and her brother will still be together every day, and it is going to be a new experience, but a good one.
She had a lot of questions, and we tried our very best to answer them, and still do when they pop up. I dont have any day to day convo with my ex any longer, but we are very good communicators when it comes to our daughter and son, and I will never change that.
So does that mean that we had a blissful ending to our relationship? god no, the woman cheated on me and left me half dead in the ditch when I was sick and needed her the most - but that is not for my kids to deal with - I dealt with that, by dropping the rope, I threw it on the ground, and I found a new path, a path towards a future I want, a future I can't wait to be living. A future involving me and my kids, and also that horrible ex of mine, because - she is the mother of my children, and she always will be - because of that, I will always talk about her with my utmost respect when my children have questions.
I was so afraid in the days leading up to the talk with my daughter, but when it was done, I felt a relief, because it was the ultimate marking of my new life as well. No more acting about the situation, no more making up stuff in regards to why ex wasn't around. I love honesty, even though honesty can also come in moderations (kids are on a need to know basis, as I said - its not their drama). Now honesty can be a big part of our daily lives again, and thats gold for me.
Onwards, upwards and one day at a time.
BD: Wife says "its over" 11th august 2018. EA: June 2018 PA: August 2018 - ongoing Status: Taking turns 7 days a week to be in the house w. kids WW: no regrets, seems happy with leaving.
Any suggestions / advice for how to handle the conversation with OS? I’ve seen some stuff before, but I would appreciate a refresher.
Kids aren't ignorant of these matters, they've been around other kids going through it so it's not a foreign concept to them. The important thing with kids, especially young ones, is A) you make it abundantly clear this is not their fault (it's just a kid thing but they tend to think it's because they did something wrong) and B) that despite this you and W will always be there to love them and support them. A lot of people get tripped up in whether they should "cover" for their cheating spouse in this talk, but the talk should not even remotely be about why the S or D is happening. It should be completely focused on the kids and the impact to them. Ask him if he has any questions. If he does ask questions they will probably be logistical- where he will be living, if he still goes to the same school, etc. So try and be prepared. Ask him how it makes him feel. It will help if both of you are there.
Practically speaking, I will be solely responsible for the least and everything from the time W moves out. Ugh.
At least I got to snuggle YS back to sleep this morning—W handed him to me soon after I showered / got dressed. Trying to cherish every minute I can with him, every baby snuggle I can get from him.
Softball starts on May 4th (got pushed back two weeks, because of Holy Week, as well as field rentals).
OS’ school has a fundraiser on May 11th for “Dad’s Day Out”—it’s a poker tournament / outing with parents and families from the school. I bought a ticket, since W will have the boys for Mother’s Day weekend. Good for GAL, get out of the place.
Not sure how good of a poker player I am; but I’ve been good about keeping things close to the vest from W, as well as pretty much calling all of her bluffs at just about every point so far.
I’ve been really swamped at work the past couple of weeks—end of a grading period, so had to get some grades in, so that explains the relative lack of posting.
Some updates on the sitch:
W / STBXW and I told the boys last week. She held OS, while I held / carried YS. At first, there were some tears from OS, but then it turned more into excitement on his end. We both affirmed for him that we love them and will be there for them, and whatever they need, we will do for them. He seems much more excited about the new living arrangement—especially STBXW’s new place. OS has said that he is a mix of emotions—that he is a little excited, sad, confused, etc, which is fair enough, I guess. I just wonder how long the novelty of the new living situation will last.
W / STBXW will be taking out a good amount of her things tomorrow. She told me that she isn’t really going to fight me for a whole lot around here, which is nice. Her mom is coming over to help, while I’m at work and the boys are at sitter / school. It still doesn’t seem real to me, but honestly......I kinda am looking forward to not having her around. Sure, not having the boys for only a little bit will [bleep], but I will do my best to be as present to them as possible when I’m with them. Had some practice with this on Saturday, when STBXW got called into work for something—I had the boys that afternoon and evening. I fed YS lunch, the 3 of us played with bubbles out in the courtyard, I fed YS a bottle and he snoozed on me for about an hour, we videochatted with my mom, we went out to the store, and then out to dinner, and then put them to bed.
I know being on my own will be tough (especially emotionally and financially), but I also am looking forward to gaining clarity in many aspects of my life. I can start to build more intentionally the life that I want for myself and the boys—what I want to focus on personally, professionally, financially, etc., as well as parent the way I want to when I’m around them (I find W / STBXW and her mom to be rather permissive and emotionally smothering as parents, and I guess as individuals more generally). Also am looking forward to meeting people and restarting previous relationships. I am also looking forward to setting up the residence the way I want to—to organize it more my way, as well as upgrade some items (some furniture pieces), as well as figuring out what all I need to replace when STBXW takes what she takes. I do understand that we are all somewhat messy in our own way, but I am really looking forward to cleaning up our current residence and being free of her messiness—not just disorganization of stuff, but also the personal disorganization that has been a part of my life, especially with respect to finances, since she’s been involved in my life.
I bet some things that I will need to replace or focus on include: the dressers for the boys (belonged to STBXW and her sister, so I wouldn’t be surprised if she takes those), as well as a long bookcase her dad made (also may end up having to replace that). I should also look into getting renters’ insurance in my name (we’re both on it, in her name), as well as look into getting off of the cell phone (again, both on it, in her name).
So the first night when we’re officially apart is May 2nd (Thursday), as we have unofficially agreed on a custody arrangement for the months of May and June. I have the next day Friday, May 3rd off—no school, because it is the day after prom. Trying to figure out what my best course of action is. Do I stay in and clean? Do I go out and be out and about? Planning on having dinner out by myself that night anyway.
Softball starts on May 4th, which will be good. Been swimming when I’ve not been swamped by grading, or being sick (I’ve been sick so much this semester, and I’m so tired of it), and I genuinely like it. What I’ve noticed is that swimming really helps with running, believe it or not—probably helps with general overall fitness and endurance, but swimming probably really helps with breathing and allows me to run better, for longer. Saturday morning I did a 25-minute run and I felt great. I know LH posted about me doing more with running, or lifting, or even martial arts (which is in my past and fascinates my students)—perhaps a project for this summer will be to look into finding a good place / teacher for martial arts and to get back into that.
When I’ve told some other people (family and co-workers) about my sitch, one common thread keeps coming up: that I may most likely get the boys way more than I anticipate, because of her travel / work requirements. We’ll see. My L told me that I have asked for (and will be getting) more custody than most men / fathers in her experience get or ask for, so I guess that is a good thing for me.
Work notes: I met with the current department chair (she is retiring), and her replacement last week. I got the email to set up a meeting, and honestly I expected the worst—my mind was swimming with possibilities about what it could be, and I anticipated the absolute worst-case scenario because hey everything else is falling apart, why not this too so I can completely hit rock bottom? I kept thinking it through over and over again—my performance evaluations have been really good the last couple of years, no major complaints about me from colleagues, parents or students. Well—we had the meeting—turns out I will be teaching sophomores and juniors next year, and not juniors and seniors, which I’m admittedly a bit bummed about, but I’m willing to go with the flow and do what is needed to be a part of the team. They both thanked me for the flexibility, which was nice. I will also being going to the University of Notre Dame for an ethics / Life and Human Dignity symposium in late June—early July. One thing I believe I remember viewing in the forum is the idea of taking on new / different responsibilities at work and stepping it up career-wise, so I figured I’d do that. Sure, I’d hate to be away from the boys for that time, but I’ll have 3 months with them when STBXW is gone for training. My current department chair asked if I wanted to reconsider going in light of my current circumstances, but I told her I honestly believe that some time away from SoCal / my sitch may do me some good. Getting out, traveling, maybe meeting new people—all good things.
I also got a thank-you card from a current student. Her parents are D’ing (I pretty much picked up on that from the beginning of the year—from what she shared with me about her sitch, it sounds like her dad went full MLC on the family), and about 6 weeks ago she had something rather traumatic happen to her on campus. This young woman is honestly one of my top overall students—she is impossibly gifted, incredibly smart, a wonderful singer, possesses a remarkable grasp of her Catholic faith for a teenage girl, and she carries herself with a grace and maturity that is far beyond her 16-17 years on this planet. She is an absolute joy, and I love her dearly (I’ve told her to her face that if I ever had a daughter, I would want my daughter to be like her), I wrote her a letter of recommendation for the ND Vision student conference this coming summer, and I also nominated her for a student character award, because I see so much in her and I also know she could use the confidence boost. Part of her thank-you note to me read: “Throughout my life I have struggled to find male role models who I know I can depend on. However, I can confidently say that you are one of the few men who I admire and trust with my whole heart. Thank you for being a bright light in my life and helping me through darker times.”
On the one hand—Wow. I am so honored that she recognizes that and feels that way about me. I’m so so glad to be there for her and do what I can to serve her. On the other hand—in light of what I’m going through, I feel like such a massive fraud—if only she knew what my personal life has been like this school year. Her parents are D’ing, and how can she look up to me when I’m going through a D myself? (I’m sure this is probably a part of NGS that hasn’t totally melted away, but this tension / sense of shame has been difficult for me to reconcile, though I am sure that that will eventually fade away with personal effort, IC, and the simple passage of time and personal growth.)
Hokay, I’ve written just about enough for now—need to get to bed and get ready for this week. Looking forward to feedback and suggestions—thank you everyone and have a great night!
On the furniture, do you have an IKEA near you? Inexpensive stuff that looks good and is functional.
Hang in there. Though I've never been through it I did stare it in the face for a while. And I've known many friends that have gone through it. Believe it or not, no matter what, in a year you will think it is the best thing that ever happened to you.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
On the furniture, do you have an IKEA near you? Inexpensive stuff that looks good and is functional.
Yes, we do. One of the good things about SoCal is that an IKEA is not that far away. I’m conflicted about IKEA furniture—more of a W / STBXW thing (she loves it, but that’s not the reason for my conflictedness), but I also understand from a cost / temporary measure it may be necessary to get by for now.
Originally Posted by Steve85
Hang in there. Though I've never been through it I did stare it in the face for a while. And I've known many friends that have gone through it. Believe it or not, no matter what, in a year you will think it is the best thing that ever happened to you.
Thanks. I’m surprised I stared this down as long as I have—until she blinked, and is now leaving / moving out. Which is why I’m so, so grateful that I’ve listened to my L, my family, and everyone here on the forum about standing up to her and standing up for myself and the boys—as a result, I’ve had almost an extra 4 months with the boys under the roof with them together full-time, and that to me is beyond priceless.
Despite the difficulties / challenges that lie ahead, I am somewhat optimistically looking towards the future. I do hope that this time next year I can look back on this and say that yeah, this was a good thing, especially in light of all the changes that I’ve made in myself and in my relationship with the boys, as well as relationships with others.
That said, I do like a number of the changes I’ve made in myself so far—attitude (despite present melancholy, but today is just shaping up to be one of those days anyway), focus, exercise, body / looks, improving how I dress (still needs some work, but better), going ‘all-in’ on the boys, trying to GAL.
I am somewhat philosophical / melancholy about her leaving and taking stuff—and this is me reflecting, so if I come off as mopey, so be it. I’ve had to rebuild a number of times throughout my life, anyway, so why not start all over again? I’m still relatively young enough (just turned 36), so I can recover in a number of ways—emotionally, financially, relationally, and hopefully build myself and a future attractive enough that someone more right for me will want to ride alongside of me and want to be a part of it, and we can be more equals. That’s down the road, though—nothing immediate.
I feel like I’ve had to clean up / cover for her messes in the past, so why not just let this be done, so I can truly start over the way I want to? (Kind of a ‘burn it all to the ground and rebuild / grow from the ashes’ mentality. My mood last week was very much ‘burn it all to the ground,’ with getting over being sick, grades due, telling the boys, working with STBXW on custody / visitation schedule.)
I talked earlier in my post about ‘getting by,’ and to be honest, I’m sick of ‘getting by.’ I feel like in our MR, I’ve had to ‘get by’ on a number of things—I’m done with that.
W / STBXW asked me earlier tonight after we put the boys to bed if I wanted a slice of pie (believe me, not an innuendo in the slightest). She asked me if she could have the last slice of pie—would it make me upset if she ate it. I told her that she could eat it if she wants. (Should I have given a Y/N answer—yeah probably, but I really just don’t care. If she wants the pie, just take the pie.) She asked me a few more times if she can have the last slice of pie, and would it make me upset. I repeat my response, and then I walked away. “You didn’t answer the question.” “Yes, I did.”
She later added that “we’ve known each other for a while now, but you’ve never been this combative.” I did my best to validate. She then asked me if I’m okay—did something happen to me about a year ago. Me: “No.”
Weird. ——————————————————————— Also looking at NextDoor app for stuff to do in the neighborhood, as well as find furniture for relatively cheap and hopefully better build quality than IKEA.
I’m looking at a dresser tomorrow afternoon around 4:00 p.m. I also sent a message about someone selling a bedroom set with a number of useful pieces for cheap—of course, if I get a hit on that, heaven knows how I’ll move it.
The line that I’ve thought about in response to my current sitch is something I believe LH mentioned in a post about detachment—finding solutions in the cosmos, and not letting things get you too down.
Legal update: Preliminary disclosure of assets / debts / obligations is completed by my L, I believe. All I need to do is sign, return, and then off to L’s office for further processing. Any day now W and her L will be served with a response.
Basically, tonight was a similar replay of last night, in almost every respect.
Division of stuff for the boys, and I’ve been giving input on what I would also would like to stay.
What that also means is another discussion with W / STBXW.
In a virtual replay of last night, she said that she believes that about a year ago, I stopped communicating with her.
She wants to know why, and what happened? Was I angry at her? Was I angry at her for being pregnant? Was I angry that she couldn’t help out as much around the house? Was it her other responsibilities at work?
Me: We both know the answer to that question.
Did something happen to me? Did something happen at work? Did SOMEONE else happen?
W: Was it YS?
Me: I would NEVER blame YS for anything.
She said that she’s tried, but I’ve stopped. (Like I’ve dropped the rope?)
Towards the end of the conversation: She wants to know what she said or did, so she can fix it, if it can even be fixed? Wants to know if we can sit down and talk with a therapist about this?
The conversation ended something like this:
She wants to know if I will talk with her about it?
Me: I’ll have to think about that one
W asked me if I’ve been talking with a therapist
Me: Yes, I’ve been talking with a therapist
W: Is it helping?
Me: I think so
She walked away, looked to be on verge of tears.
——————————————————————- This is just astonishing. Absolutely astonishing. This must truly be the WAS fog. She must clearly have no recollection of the anger she had at me for getting her pregnant. How angry she was at me, and that she told me often that she was angry. The ILYBINILWY, the “I wish I loved you enough to want to take care of you” when I threw out my back in February 2018. None of this registers with her.
For the record, and for those new to my thread, I was never angry with her for being pregnant. If anything, in Fall 2017, before all this started, I wanted another child so desperately. I am so, so overjoyed at having YS, though I am heartbroken about losing him half-time with the custody arrangement, which starts on Thursday. (At least I get him all to myself on Saturday evening / night, as OS has a camping outing that W and her mom are taking him to.) I accepted early on in the pregnancy that I would try to do more around the house—in fact, in earlier threads, I had it pointed out to me, and probably acknowledged myself, that trying to be SuperDad / SuperHubby wouldn’t get her back. Can’t nice them back.
Nothing happened to me—except the ILYBINILWY, which I don’t know if she remembers. But I do—I couldn’t forget it if I tried. That’s what changed everything, and her talking about how she wasn’t even sure she still wanted to be married to me. It set me into a panic, like it has for most LBS’s.
Someone else certainly did NOT happen—I don’t have the extra time, extra money or extra energy to cheat or have an affair, probably even if I wanted to. If anything, I still totally wanted her—to do anything I could have to save the MR. At least until October / November when I began to truly realize that there was no coming back from this, that she truly wanted out, was done, and was full-steam ahead on S / D. Even back in November I still totally wanted her sexually, and she rejected me a couple of times and ONLY THEN did I get the hint, but then she said a couple of months ago that I ‘never wanted to have sex with her again’ because, according to her, I found it ‘sinful.’
Now she brings up talking with a therapist? Those who have followed my threads would remember that she would only consider MC under specific conditions, anyway.
I just can’t say enough how astonishing this all is. The projection, the blame-shifting. She was so angry with me for being pregnant for so long, with later talk of separation, and now all this, 2 nights before she leaves.
And here we go again. I have to wonder if Wednesday will bring Day 3 of this, again—I sure hope not. If that’s the case, I’ll need to shut it down before it starts.
Don't take the bait Bo!! Don't do it!!! I read this 3 times, and although my experience, our WAW responses, and my sitch eerily similar to yours. Our IVF pregnancy because of my fertility. Mother's Day, Birthday Anniversaries, all the reasons and justifications for separation, (a lot of them legitimate and some of them having nothing to do with me.)
I started asking for documentation for D a few weeks ago because I just got fed up and decided I didn't want to carry on, and she panics, it kind of woke her up but she still held all the cards. After a couple of days of requesting tax documents other stuff from her for that reason, she still kept on making her position clear on what she's doing and what she wants. I told her I didn't want to go down that road with her, but she still insisted on putting the house on the market and selling it. She offered to finally go to joint therapy together, and we had a discussion. Two days later, after our discussion about our trust issues and joint therapy, she changed her mind again and renegged, since she wasn't ready and she was only considering joint therapy because she felt guilty and wanted to appease me. At least that's what she said. Whether those reasons are legitimate and who the hell knows? She twisted and rewrote history on me saying that I never wanted to attend therapy with her back in OCT which was true for October because I was working away. But I made myself clear that I wanted to go to therapy together in January, and Feb. In January and February she insisted on going to therapy alone. She didn't remember that from our recent discussion. Then she reneged again on joint therapy and actually accuse me of the one flip flopping.
Here's my assessment.... It's still all about her... she is asking you if you are open to seeing a therapist together for her to fix and work on her issues FOR HER AND HER ONLY. She knows she is at the eleventh hour of not turning back. She is right on the edge. She is crying because she is mourning the death of the marriage, it is not because she wants to reconcile with you. She is throwing the joint therapy out there as bait to see if you'll hang on a little bit longer, without having to give up her position while still holding all the cards. It's probably nothing more than bait, and it is still a power struggle. She is having second thoughts at the eleventh hour. She is probably not throwing it out there for the both of you. She is just doing it for herself for answers and clarity.
I think you did very well with replying "I have to think about that." If you decide to have this joint therapy discussion with her, I believe the most important question you can ask her is what are her reasons for wanting this, and wanting it now after how far things have gotten? Subtly find out if she wants to do this because she wants to fix things with her, for herself? Or because she wants to actually work on the marriage. Do not cave, do not give up or reveal your position? Ask a few questions to find out her initiative incentive motive and reasons?
Anything short of her saying : "I would like to reconcile and work on the marriage." Is nothing more than a half-hearted attempt at real commitment, and is probably temp checking. Although I can perfectly understand why they would make this entire situation about themselves. If she is still making the interaction in this discussion about her, then she is only looking for clarity and peace of mind, and some answers for herself. She is not making it about you and what she is putting you through, or reconciling. I know that we as the LBS have made a lot of guilty mistakes. A lot of us have apologized and have tried to make good on those mistakes with a contrite heart, and typically we are met with the "too little too late" responses from our R talks, searching for answers on how we got here in the first place.
Take my opinion and experiences for what it's worth. Maybe some of the vets agree and some disagree. But don't give up your position. If you see that she's leaning it's a joint therapy for her own reasons and clarification rather than working on the marriage, and the recommitment to such, keep the "I have to think about that..." responses going.
I definitely feel you on the projection in the blame shifting as I am experiencing nothing but that from W.
If the conversation is still all about her, just acknowledge it, validate it, and yes do shut it down. Start paying more attention to the interaction dynamics of conversation, and find and observe the give-and-take, of when she asks you questions about yourself and your position, and when it's all about her. You will know if it's half-hearted if most of the conversation is about her. When there is a balance of curiosity of both people seeking answers and wanting to make amends you will know it. You will sense a contrite heart based on the interaction
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
