I think part of the reason I feel sad is that I took the kids out this morning and we went to a place we've not been in several years, but which H and I spent a lot of time at when they were babies.
This kills all of us. After BD and for months after everything reminded me of H. Places we ate, parks we went to, movies we watched. Literally EVERYTHING. Then one day I sat down and realized that I have eaten at those places, or taken the children to that park many times without my H and never once sat there and thought "Oh, H and I used to come here". It is only sad because he left. It is only sad because I was sad. It is not the places, or the things, it is just the sadness. Deal with the sadness because, you were together a long time, and everything will have memories associated with him and everything will make you sad.
D12 ordered a chocolate milkshake .... H likes chocolate milkshakes ... oh, here comes the sadness again
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
I could just kick myself. I really could. He's always unbearable when he's tired and he'd obviously come home from work and had a couple of drinks and wasn't in the mood to be dealing with me. And he hates feeling like I am making emotional demands on him, and I basically phoned him and had a go at him for not texting me enough. I just had a very very very weak and sad moment tonight and I had been doing so well. I felt myself drifting away from him and it scared me, I guess. I've tried phoning him again to see if I can repair things and he's turned his phone off. I hate feeling so unnecessary and burdensome and disposable to him. I have been so strong and I've been working so hard on everything and all he sees is some needy, annoying, irritating person who he hates. When I go to him to be cherished or comforted or supported - all things he says he wants in our future - it seems to inspire such contempt in him.
You probably read my thread and think to yourself "What is she doing ??? She's driving herself insane whilst he merrily sits in his corner pulling strings and eating cake !!!"
I say the below knowing it is easier to give advice then to take advice.
Not only can you not fix him. He cannot fix you. He is wound up in his own [censored] to care about you. He throws you a bone when he feels that you're pulling away, but underneath he is still messed up and will be for a long time.
1. You cannot expect him to call or text you. H calls every night almost without fail. Sometimes he speaks to me, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes I hear D9 say "do you want to speak to mummy ... ok then bye" and then she hangs up. This use to hurt like a MF. The reason it hurt is because I expected him to talk to want to talk me and when he didn't I put all sorts of motives behind it ("he can't stand to talk to me", "he didn't have time to talk to me" blah blah blah). All that mental torture for something I can't control. Stop expecting him to do anything for you. Nothing is for you. Everything right now is for him.
2. Stop expecting him to fix you. {in his head} your emotional needs come way way after his emotional needs. Your H (right now) has the emotional capacity of a teenager. I have a pre-teen daughter. She is going through a lot of [censored] right now. When it first started, my H convinced himself it had nothing to do with him leaving. It was hormones, school, poor diet, me. This was one of his children, the children I know he would step in front of a moving vehicle to save, and he could not see our separation was hurting her. His emotional needs came before her emotional needs. This does not invalidate your feelings. Just like my H need to protect his ego did not invalidate my daughters feelings. Know only that the only one who can make you whole again right now is you.
Yail is right - you need to get out of the cycle of co-dependency. Do things for you. Become a better you. Yail is the champ at this. She has had minimal to NC with her W for 6 months. In that time she started a new course and even picked up knitting. I joined a gym, started doing yoga and meditating, I started pampering myself more and I made friends. Lots and lots of friends. It doesn't take the sadness completely away because neither Yail or I have truly let go yet, but does mean that amongst the sadness there is also laughter and lots of new memories (as well as a new killer body).
You will be a better person ...
Loss breeds appreciation. Grief breeds compassion.
When I was really sad, I found watching live comedy on Netflix helped a lot. I couldn't watch anything too deep (I lacked the focus) or too romantic (they just made me cry) but live comedy, well after a while, I found myself laughing at the TV.
I think I get that. And I'm not trying to be obstructive. But I don't understand what the point is in having a relationship with someone you are not allowed to ask for emotional support or closeness from. If I don't ask for what I need, I don't get it. If I do ask for it, I get nastiness. It feels like a dead end.
You are absolutely entitled to comfort, but right now he’s not in a position to give it to you. And you asking makes him feel inadequate. You need to cultivate patience yet again. Goodness me this is hard, I’ve never been so patient in my life. And patience in the face of extreme uncertainty is even harder. I hope you feel more grounded today
Thank you everyone for the tough and clear advice and suggestions. I do really value it. I feel more grounded today in some ways, and more baffled in others.
H came around to see me the day after I called him. He was very kind and nice to me, but didn't really acknowledge the phone call or what we'd said to each other. This is a regular thing with us - I'm the person who wants to talk things out and resolve them, and he's the person who wants to demonstrate a repair through action, and leave things unsaid. I apologised for my part in things and he accepted that and gave me a hug, but didn't really comment on his part in things at all. He was sick - really sick - and I cooked for him again and spent the last couple of days looking after him a bit. He had a fever and slept most of the time. Other than making sure he was fed and had medication, I just went about my life - went out with the kids, did my GAL - as if he wasn't there.
Yesterday he said, 'there's something wrong, what is it?' and I said, 'well, I'm afraid to bring it up because of how cruel and nasty you can be when you feel criticised,' and he pushed and in the end I said, 'I know I rang at a bad time and I know I was asking you for something you've told me already you can't give. I know that wasn't respecting your boundaries. I accept responsibility for that. I've apologised. And some of the ways you treated me in response were really cruel and unacceptable to me, yet here you are being nursed when you are sick, and wanting that from me, and while I want to help you and comfort you, I also hate how you treat me when I ask for help and comfort from you.'
He really didn't like that and started on about how I shouldn't ring him when he's tired, he's stressed etc etc. I said, 'Yes, you're right about that. And yes, there's more I could do to respect your boundaries. But what I am talking about is the mean and cruel way you spoke to me and the way that made me feel, and that matters too,' and in the end he apologised. I just accepted it quickly and changed the subject because I didn't want him to feel like I was berating him or forcing him to grovel. I wanted some acknowledgement, I suppose. He can't help not having much emotional capacity right now, or being unable to offer support. I can't help not liking that. But we can both help how we behave.
Ah, I don't know. He's gone back to his own place now. We have a standing arrangement for him to take the kids on Wednesday nights so I can GAL at a class I do to, so he will be back later. When he was here he was talking about how things were going to be once he's done his project - how different the marriage will be. It wasn't just a list of changes he wanted me to make, but more changes in how our lives would be - how we'd spend our time and so on. I just said, 'a lot would need to be different for that to work, wouldn't it?' and he said 'yes.' I still don't have any sense that he's considering what would need to be different about him. I don't know.
So this is either me accepting he can offer nothing, running around after him with a wet flannel and a lemsip after some pretty awful behaviour on his part, and accepting mere civility because it's just the crumbs that are on offer right now. Or it is him starting to trust me enough to ask for comfort and be vulnerable (that is new - him wanting comfort when sick) and me learning to accept that part of a relationship is in offering care and support through the hard times when the other person can't give much in return. I don't know which it is. Probably a bit of both.
Just caught up with this thread and too me personally as someone who has been through this process and come out of the other end - I understood very early on that I needed to detach detach detach.
If the relationship was ever going to work, I had to be alone, sad, heartbroken, empty - and as the months go by and things start to settle - then maybe if it was meant to be then we would naturally be drawn back to each other - which luckily was the case and still is.
The thing I notice about your posts, is the constant interactions with him and the desperate nature of them.
You may say you need to talk to him or ask him this and that.. However behind all of these questions is fear. Fear that it may truly be over and you have lost everything you had previously. But it seems you have convinced yourself otherwise that interacting with him in this way is going to help you.
I can tell you from experience it isnt helping.
You seem to be constantly looking for clues in everything he is saying. But that’s only going to drive you insane because he will not provide you with answers that have any solid foundation or future - simply enough to keep you ticking over until next time you feel a bit down or empty.
Its like your scrambling to make him see how you don’t want this to end, but in the same breath trying to DB at the same time - and the result is a non functional mess of emotions that does nothing to help you move on - or help draw him back into the equation if he so choses.
One trick that helped me massively was truly 100% believing there is no way back. That she was dead. We would never get back together - and truly accept it. Seems bizzare - but it worked as it allowed me to make decisions and talk through my true self for my benefit rather than living through hints of desperation which alter my mindset to ask questions which are ultimately designed to make you feel better and as a result push them away further.
I was going to respond earlier, but Benito has articulated everything I wanted to say, but so much better.
Alison - we have all been where you are. You need to let him go and focus on you. The constant interactions make it difficult to do this because when they are around all the time we naturally want to put meaning into everything they say and do. I know its hard you want him to see the changes but in the end, and you'll realise this too, the changes are not to win him back, the changes are for you. If he comes back that's a bonus, if he doesn't, you win anyway.
Limit your interactions. Be friendly but not too available. If you can't manage that without getting your emotions in a twist, then limit your interactions even more. You can increase them again later when you aren't so much at the mercy of the slings and the arrows. Like the changes, detachment is a tool to protect you (and yes, I know it is also a tool to make them realise what they've lost but to me that's a little manipulative).
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Yesterday he said, 'there's something wrong, what is it?' and I said, 'well, I'm afraid to bring it up because of how cruel and nasty you can be when you feel criticised,' and he pushed and in the end I said, 'I know I rang at a bad time and I know I was asking you for something you've told me already you can't give. I know that wasn't respecting your boundaries. I accept responsibility for that. I've apologised. And some of the ways you treated me in response were really cruel and unacceptable to me, yet here you are being nursed when you are sick, and wanting that from me, and while I want to help you and comfort you, I also hate how you treat me when I ask for help and comfort from you.'
I'm sorry to say this but all he heard was "you are cruel and nasty ... [blah blah blah] ... your response was cruel and unacceptable ... you expect me to nurse you when you're sick ... I don't get anything in return".
Pressure. Lots and lots of pressure. And a little of you playing the victim.
You are not a victim Alison. Stop acting like one.
Him: 'there's something wrong, what is it?' Me: 'I'm Ok - just had a tough day".
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When he was here he was talking about how things were going to be once he's done his project - how different the marriage will be. It wasn't just a list of changes he wanted me to make, but more changes in how our lives would be - how we'd spend our time and so on. I just said, 'a lot would need to be different for that to work, wouldn't it?' and he said 'yes.' I still don't have any sense that he's considering what would need to be different about him. I don't know.
Your response "a lot would need to be different" reeks of blame. Just listen to him when he says things like this. Nod your head, validate where you need to but don't get drawn into the conversation.
And why are you running after him with a [censored] flannel? He left. He fired you as his wife. He doesn't get to have you running around after him now just because he doesn't feel well. Consequences. He can look after his own self.
Sorry, that was harsh.
They say here that we should treat them like a friendly neighbour - if your neighbour was sick, you might offer some friendly advice/sympathy - "That sounds terrible, you probably should get some lemsip / paracetamol on your way home and tuck yourself up in bed" but you certainly wouldn't be nursing them back. You'd probably not even think about it again once you'd said goodbye and closed the door.
I do understand what you're all saying - I do. And I guess it comes across like I'm being really resistant and obstructive and that isn't how I mean to be. But I keep on saying this - and nobody seems to take it into account - he didn't leave me, I wanted him to leave and had been begging him to leave for months before he did. I think it makes a difference to this situation. I'm as much of a WAW as I am a LBS. It just so happened I'm in the marital home and he's not.
I also wonder at how much of what I'm being advised to do now involves dishonesty - pretending I am okay when I am a not, pretending I am not hurt or offended by his behaviour when I am - and if that's the case, how would that help? Is it possible for me to be authentic about what is going on with me without making him responsible for fixing it?
When you first met – did you need to take advise off people?
Probably not – because you were just you and he was just him. You were both attracted to each other. No games.. no advise.. it was just because.
Life has forced you to lose yourself and into a role i.e mother/carer/wife etc..
That only lasts as long as both parties are willing to play house. Successful relationships are the ones were both parties still view each other in the same way they did when they first met. i.e. as separate individuals, who you respect and would like to spend time with.
Yes of course, wife and husband roles can work – however, all it takes is one party to (feel alive) again, i.e. met someone new, or a death in the family were they mentally reset and think … what am I doing here… I am not happy I want more.
Then the problems start and games start being played.
If the relationship is genuine then the two parties should never forget themselves and become a role – they are still that person you met but a bit older.
He is NOT responsible for how you feel.
That is so co-dependent its untrue and it’s an issue you need to sort. No one should have the power to make you feel like that. Nobody.
He is treating you the way he is because you have allowed it.
If he was abusing your kids would you stay? No you wouldn’t. It wouldn’t be a question. You would be gone in a second because it’s against your moral fibre to accept such behaviour. So why in the same breath would you tip toe around him now? He doesn’t want you as this role your playing. You need to accept that.
Your so bought into the idea of not losing something that your panicking coming here for advise.
What is there to panic about? – if you were being true to you as Alison, not a wife or mother, but Alison as a person, you wouldn’t be confused – you would get your sh*t together and do what is best for you and f**k the consequences. If he wants to come on the journey them so be it. If not, at least your living a life for you.
It starts with totally letting go and being alone. But your terrified of it - and are always keeping one eye on him waiting for a crumb of comfort.
I don't think the LBS / WAW / WAH/ WW labels matter 1 jot Alison. I think there was a pretty good reason why you asked and then begged him to leave. You had a marriage in crisis. My reading of DB was that it was for a marriage in crisis. A spouse that has left is one aspect of that for which it is suggested there may need to be special considerations.
I was a LBS who was then the one who pulled the plug on my M. My H was genuinely surprised that I wanted to Divorce. Distance showed me that the grass was actually greener and there was more out there for me. I am starting to suspect that in a few months / years I would have pulled the plug and been a WAW anyway.
I worry about you Alison because you come across as a tightly coiled spring who is trying to spin plates and juggle with burning coals.
He has told you that he isn't going to meet your need to repair this R yet.
Either accept that and sit and wait whilst working out what it is you fear. Or decide that you are not waiting.
I know you want to wait, so do your R a favour and back off.
Up 'ere in the North we would describe you as 'mawking' at him. Hovering and mothering and trying to fix.
Leave him be. Not to punish him, but just to identify yourselves as independent human beings.
You used the word "cruel" in how he interacted with you while stressed. Is that word accurate? Because if it is, I think you really need to reflect on it.
I've been around/with people who are stressed to the max. People I'm very close with, people I love. And they can be short, they can be snippy and they can be rude. But they can NEVER be cruel. That is a line that is crossed and just not how you treat someone you love. It's not.
You asked him to leave, and I think you need to stand by that. I think it's obvious that you asked him to leave because you need things to change but you aren't giving either of you the opportunity to make a change. You don't have the space to create a new dynamic.
You will only feel yourself change when you truly step back from the M and focus only on you. Not on H one iota. He also needs to fend for himself and figure out what his priorities are.
I'm barely at 6 months separated and only now am I finding out who I really am as an individual. I thought I knew, and I'm happy that I was mostly right. But I'm still learning, and that's what space does. You are in desperate need of space and time.
No future-reading, no mind-reading. Just space and time with yourself. That's your prescription.
