I'm in la-la land over here just wondering what the future holds. I know it's not something I can see. That drives me crazy.
W is coming to the state this weekend and we will discuss both logistics of D and selling the house. We will be meeting at the house, which W has not been in with me since November when she stayed one night.
On one hand this is my space right now, and I hope I draw strength and confidence from that. I wonder what her emotions will be stepping foot into the space that used to be her home and where she really was happy once with her soon to be wife and life partner. I know, can't speculate.
I wonder if she will waver at all in the conversations she wishes to have with me on these two sensitive subjects. I know, can't speculate.
I wonder if I will see any emotion from her, or if we will somehow wander into an unintended R conversation. I know, can't speculate.
I see similarities in all sitches here on the board, which some days gives me strength. I see couples come back from the brink due to a twist of fate, or even just the passage of time.Then I look at ours and it feels so different and so unique (I know, it isn't). I wonder if someday we will be one of the couples that finds our way back. I know, can't speculate.
There aren't as many NC/low contact couples on this board. Some days it is easier. But somedays the expanse of unanswered "what is going on with you?" questions is so hard. I have no barometer.
FS was correct when she said we shouldn't act any different if we KNEW our S would return or KNEW they wouldn't. I'm not doing anything different in my life. I have plans for what is next in my life, and I actively participate and grow. That doesn't change. But this future-reading is something I struggle with. Especially around the D. I feel like that's a line in the sand I don't know that W would ever walk away from. But I don't know. I never thought we'd get here either - reading the tea leaves is sucking me in.
I struggle with wondering if D = the end. I know not always. I know some truly do reconnect. I know if we got a D right now I wouldn't be done - but I'm not sure how I'd proceed with that. If I'm D and we are NC ... am I really going to wait even if I know W is worth it? Worth it - but not guaranteed. How do you balance that?
I suppose all I can do is focus on my 180s and how I interact with her.
I know what I want out of moving forward regarding the house and property. I will listen to her proposal, and know what does and does not work for me. I will not be shy in clearly stating these needs if they differ from hers. We are both reasonable about this subject.
I will not walk on eggshells around her. This is my #1. When the M started to crumble I wanted to do anything to save it, so I ended up hiding and being overly enthusiastic about whatever she wanted. No more.
I will truly listen to what W is saying, and show I am listening through validation. I ignored her pain for too long thinking it wasn't so deep. She tried to hide it from me so I pretended I didn't see it. That didn't work for us.
I want to temp check, but won't. I will watch for subtle clues. What subjects does she talk about, or avoid? Eye contact? Body language?
I will not talk about me to "fill the space". Less a 180, more just a conscious way to keep her talking. That sounds manipulative but I just know nothing about her - and I want to know where she is at. Is she still angry? Hurt?
Sounds like you are having a hard time of it right now. It's OK. We all get sucked back into the tunnels sometimes. I can hear your pain and your need to desperately understand your W and make sense of all this. Sometimes there is no reason that will make sense to you because we are dealing with emotions and not logic. Your W sounds like a good person, who is (in her own messed up way) trying to do the right thing, in her mind live her authentic self, and cause as little hurt to you as she can. Be glad of that. There are others here who have lived with people who have done unspeakable things in the name of 'finding themselves'.
Originally Posted by Yail
There aren't as many NC/low contact couples on this board. Some days it is easier. But somedays the expanse of unanswered "what is going on with you?" questions is so hard. I have no barometer.
Seeing them every day does not give you a window into their souls. It does not provide answers. I have to try and not read into his every word and action because otherwise I would go crazy trying to interpret: "What was behind that look", "What did he mean when he said X", is he angry?, is he lonely?, is he happier now?. It doesn't help so I push the thoughts away and try and do my best to live my life with no expectations from him. Sometimes I think it would be easier not to see him as I am less anxious that way. There are pros and cons to both. Yes, you don't have a barometer but you are also not dissecting interactions, sensing a small glimmer of hope in an unexpected smile or recoiling to lick your wounds when they say something that reminds you you are no longer together.
Originally Posted by Yail
I struggle with wondering if D = the end. I know not always. I know some truly do reconnect. I know if we got a D right now I wouldn't be done - but I'm not sure how I'd proceed with that. If I'm D and we are NC ... am I really going to wait even if I know W is worth it? Worth it - but not guaranteed. How do you balance that?
You live your life. One day after the next, one step in front of the other, one breath at a time. You will build a life Yail. And it will be a wonderful one. Is D the end. Only if you stand down. And you might do. You might be out one day and realise that you are no longer standing. You will be out with friends, or sitting in a park reading a book, or holding hands with another woman, and you will know you have stood down. Let it be. I know it's tough. I miss the last phone call of the day. The kiss on my shoulder before I fall asleep. Winding down after putting the kids to bed, cuddled together on the sofa. But these things are gone. And I have to remember how to live. So do you.
You strike me as someone who oozes with smarts, compassion, empathy, and decency. I don't know if your W will eventually realize how lucky she was. If she does not, I know someone else will...some day.
It's very hard. Neither of us is "out of love" with our respective Ws. I think, based on what you have shared, each of us believe we found our soulmates.
You say: "I ignored her pain for too long thinking it wasn't so deep. She tried to hide it from me so I pretended I didn't see it. " Go easy on yourself. During early days, I would beat myself up, assuming blame. Now I realize that my W is very much a product of her upbringing. Not much deep, emotional issues was shared within her childhood family. I accept now that W wasn't hiding things from me deliberately; she just didn't have the tools to process her pain, nor did I have the tools to see this or respond to this as I now wish I did.
Your intention to focus on her needs is a good one. I don't think it's contradictory to be aware of and to accept your own emotional needs, while loving her so much that you want only what is best for her. (At least in my own sitch, that's what my soul keeps telling my heart.)
Thank you FlySolo and paco. It's the moving forward into D land conversation that has me riled up. I'm aware of it, but I'm still just so emotionally achy this week. I feel like my body is trying to reject this idea. "Divorce?!? Yail and W??? NEVER!!!" I've been needing to vent, so I come here. Sorry you guys get the brunt of it
I said this to folks in my personal life, but it's true. I am so incredibly grateful for my job right now. I've had some "eh" jobs in the past with really bad support networks that just sucked my soul out. I am currently in an incredibly supportive environment with people I legitimately admire, have fun with, and they support me. I am told daily what a great job I do in my roll - I've finally found a good fit for me. I am encouraged to seek out that "next level". There are literally hundreds of people I haven't met yet, so the potential to continue to increase my social circle is built in. If I wasn't in this positive space during my days I don't know what I'd be doing right now. Thank goodness and bless that work-family I have right now.
Originally Posted by paco123
It's very hard. Neither of us is "out of love" with our respective Ws. I think, based on what you have shared, each of us believe we found our soulmates.
Interesting, paco. Although honestly I really don't believe in soulmates. I just thought I found a really fantastic match. And I took SO long to be sure this was a good match. I really processed this very slowly to be sure. And then we just got married and BOOM.
*** I had an "OH F----" moment the other day. I was with my friend and we were catching-up. After we parted, friend text me. She very kindly pointed out to me that she didn't feel I was really listening to her very well during our convo, and she didn't want to be mad so she wanted to be sure she was honest with me about her feelings.
This is a valued friend so I of course seriously considered what she told me and apologized and owned up to my behavior. She was right. But it made me wonder if this is more of a habit than I think it is. At first I wondered if I'm just in kind of a bad selfish phase because I feel like my life is blowing up, and I'm desperate for help from friends. But I'm not sure that's the whole story. I'm trying to tune in to myself now. I think it might be a major life improvement I need to focus on.
I do know I tend to be a "fixer" in conversation. Always offer advice, even when not asked for.
Yail, let me tell you how to fix that tendency of yours to be a fixer. (joke)
I know what you mean. Sometime ago, FSolo shared the insight that sometimes, one just has to be present and listen. On this board, I get impatient with folks who seem to jump in with comments without fully understanding what I've written. And then demand answers. It seems almost self-serving.
So let me just listen and affirm. Great to hear about the joy you find at work. May you continue onward and upward.
I'm familiar with what you mean about the self-serving piece. Most of the people in my life...we have a deep rooted need to be "right". I just grew up on a family where we all had to give our opinions on every topic - maybe those conversations were our ways of bonding? Showing we care? when I'm with my family we all are happy with this dynamic. It feels natural to me, as if that's how communication should happen.
But I could see how others in my life would find this undesireable if I am constantly advising what they should do.
So I guess that's the piece I need to be particularly aware of as I move forward in listening to people in my life. It's a really good focus for me.
Thanks for commenting on my sitch. It is tough dealing with the loss in so many ways.
I liked how paco said you oooozed with smarts. lol. Right on right there.
Yail, I feel you on the emotional achy part. Someone at my work asked me if I was depressed because I said my back has been "achy." I think the apartment hunting, this house selling, my family splitting soon, W being happy about it, and I'm gritting down and making the best of it and putting my best smile on like its a country song, it's all too much.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
Campus is my home now. I've worked here about a year and a half, and over the past 6 months or so I've started to feel like I'm a critical team member. Since W moved out, I find myself seeking out campus activities I can participate in, seeking out ways I can connect to these great coworkers, and seeking out meaningful interactions with students.
It's wonderful. It really, really is. I feel like I'm seen, I feel like I'm heard. I want to volunteer and put in the work to make this place vibrant for the students, because it makes ME feel vibrant. I never wanted to be an educator (I'm not - I'm staff), but I have found that college is such a great age group of young adults to work with. I remember so clearly my own passion, and I watch these bright students fight for their own voices to be heard.
I manage a team of 4 or 5 students which is my own little squad of kick-butt kiddos. I think they all feel very comfortable coming to me with questions and problems (I hope). I do have one who needs a bit of managing - he's young, he is making some mistakes and needs some guidance. It's good for me to develop these skills in how to critique others while still being encouraging. I think I'm doing okay by him, but I still seek out support from other managers when I want recommendations.
Several months ago I was filmed as part of the staff LGBTQA Alliance. The alliance is making a short film where we talk about our experiences being queer and on campus from the "adult" point of view. I was proud of myself for speaking up and volunteering to be videotaped. Next up I've signed-up to tell my Coming Out story to the LGBTQA Student alliance. The club leader put out a special plea for staff/faculty participation to balance the student stories. I'm nervous but excited about telling my own story to these kids - because I was also in college when I came out to my family. It's a defining moment in anyone's life.
Of course, as Femme woman I "come-out" nearly daily. Folks would not know I'm gay looking at me. Just yesterday we had a snow storm and a coworker joked that I'd have to get my husband to plow our driveway. *Sigh*. Wrong on both counts. Not a Husband, and not really married right now. It was an honest mistake, but kind of sobering for me.
Today I spent half the day in the gorgeous library doing my own homework. Tomorrow I'm going to support one of the college's sports clubs. What a great Sunday plan. It's the crazy time in the semester where all offices start to really ramp-up production, and you start to really feel the energy as students are busting their butts to get to the finish line. I love the energy. I love the snow melting and the buds on trees. I love that on Monday there's an informal "get coffee and chat with coworkers just for fun" meeting that is on everyone's calendar.
There is so much great stuff in these posts, everyone. There were a lot of things said by all of you that I will try to comment on later this evening in greater detail.
I love that all of you are aware that there is nothing you can nor should do to convince anyone to change.
I love that even though you have this tremendous weight of these sitches on you, you still are moving forward with your life, learning from your past mistakes, and making life-changing improvements in the present.
You are doing things that make YOU happy. That is what matter right now. Whether our WAS/WS take notice is completely out of our control. The sooner we can accept that, the sooner and faster we can heal.
