Could also be that her L talked some sense into her. Or that her L is intimidated by your L. Regardless, sounds like the two of you may be closer to a resolution than you previously thought so that's good news!
Could also be that her L talked some sense into her. Or that her L is intimidated by your L. Regardless, sounds like the two of you may be closer to a resolution than you previously thought so that's good news!
Most likely her L talked sense into her. L doesn’t know that I lawyered up yet—she’ll find out.
I guess a resolution is good news? Not sure how I feel about it, tbh.....
What are your reasons for telling your friend / not telling her, and what do you think would happen either way? Would you regret anything?
Do you feel you need to cover up for your W or something? Just curious.
When I got BD, W was telling her family. We agreed that we could tell anyone we wanted, but when she found out I told my brother eventually, she didn't want to face him. When she found out I told my closest friend and we went over for his daughters bday party, she was alienated. I held it in for 2 months before telling another soul what was going on. I had to tell my boss and she cried. Worked with her for over a decade and some of the women remember my W from my previous location. She'd bring my older one to work sometimes to see me.
Last week when it was Spring Break I got a little laxed and spent some time with the in laws. They all know my W version of our sitch but my BIL invited his neighbor who doesn't know. W and I sat next to each other during a dinner we had at some asian restaurant and she footed the bill since it was most her family. The guy was thanking me and us to treating him out. I said no problem and brushed it off. There's going to be a lot of ppl I come across who I will share very little with. For the most part I stopped sharing. But damn does the info sometimes come out like vomit when you don't want it to. I didn't rehearse my story when apartment searching so when I was speaking to the sales director she asked if I was married and some other question about the kids, where we lived etc, and I told her they were moving and she had this look and I was like ugh, now I have to explain my mess. She is a very attractive woman and also went through a D. She shared some personal stories to break the ice. She's remarried for 10 years now so life does go on.
Don't know if any of that helps or not with you doing you.
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
I’ve seen (and read) a thread here about Retrouvaille.
Anyone currently here have thoughts about it?
They do have a weekend in The OC in early May, and I spoke with people at the booth at the RE Congress.
One of the husbands there gave me his wife’s phone number to share with W—to ask W to contact her.
I did express concern that W wouldn’t be receptive to it (mind-reading, I know), and I am concerned that it could feel like pressuring. How they suggested I frame is: 1.) You have nothing to lose anyway, so why not? (At least for my mindset). 2.) Frame it as working on communication for the kids (for both of our mindsets, really). 3.) Besides, worst she can say is no, anyway.
I also relayed W’s thoughts about not pursuing Catholic MC because she doesn’t want to be judged re: birth control. They said: We don’t judge, and won’t even expect her / us to speak to the groups about our issues. (I also know that Retrouvaille is not necessarily even for Catholics.). I have divorce papers? Their perspective: they’re just papers.
I remember being at last year’s RE Congress after W’s initial ILYBINILWY BD (back around Feb. ‘18) spending tons of time praying, reading TDR and the articles, and basically crying my eyes out at Adoration for W and our family. I guess it was (is) a miracle I am still attending this year as a (barely) married man. This year, though, I’m less optimistic—2x4 me if you must, but I 95% expect to attend next year’s RE Congress without wearing my wedding band, or at least as a D’ed person.
That said, I did express my hope, when leaving their booth, that hopefully next year I’ll go home after RE Congress to her and the boys. If I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth, so be it.
They did tell me that I have to want it—I have to lean in more than W wants out. Tbh, I doubt my strength and resolve at this point some days. One of the H’s at the booth said that I must want it at least a little bit—because I stopped by.
Look, I get it—I’m a mess right now, and get the lumber ready and fire away if you need to and I need it. For me, spirituality in a MR is important, and is a quality that I find attractive.
All this said: Thoughts about Retrouvaille in general (?) Suggestions / recommendations on how to proceed on this with W? Thank you in advance.
/journaling while at RE Congress, taking a break between sessions
Will be going by Adoration and Confession in a little bit, and then the ‘Contemplative Dating’ workshop as my last workshop of the day today.
It’s really great to be with FF, even if it’s only for the weekend. She’s a help around the place, asking what needs to be done, offering to help cook, and is great with the boys, and even when we parked this morning, she took a pic of where we parked (I did that yesterday, and again today—I explained to her that that’s what I do so I remember where I parked). I’m also doing my best to help her—I’ve been walking / guiding her around to her sessions—it’s difficult to get through sometimes even on good days. She told me she really appreciated my doing that for her—I’ve been there, trying to make it on my own at stuff like this, and I always tried to be very receptive and grateful for the help, so I’m trying to pay it forward.
Like I mentioned earlier, it’s really nice to be with a woman around my age with whom I can have mature conversations. I’m also reminded of deep her spirituality is, which is refreshing. FF still doesn’t know anything about my sitch, but one thing she has brought up a few times during spending time with her is that she has experience doing annulments (she was trained to do annulments for a previous parish position). /gulp It’s gonna be rough telling her about my sitch when I do.
I know yesterday I talked about the potential of asking W about Retrouvaille—and I’ll admit, I’m not sure how good of an idea it is. That is something I will continue to take to continued prayer / reflection / thought. One thing one of the H’s at the Retrouvaille booth asked me yesterday was: “You two still in the same house?” Me: Yes. He then asked what living arrangements will look like once the D goes through. I’ve given it some thought; I’m not sure if she has.
But then, she may also have a plan that I don’t know about. One thing I’ll have to watch in the next few days is our joint bank account—today is her pay day, and I noticed her payroll hasn’t hit yet. To be fair, some days it appears later—it takes a few hours on a Saturday, or it may even show up on Sunday or later. What is most likely, and what I’m concerned about, is that she has cut me off financially, and diverted her direct-deposit paycheck to another account. If she does, then I will have to be the responsible party for the rent, and I’ll have to keep track of it and have her half of it into the D judgment (she still lives under the roof with us). I’ll have to check with L on this one, but probably after I see how this weekend shakes out. Good thing I’ll be on Spring Break, so I can get cracking on stuff like that.
There is a book here at one of the vendors about Pope Francis and annulments, and I’ll have to take a look at it. I forgot to mention this, but last week at the library book sale, I picked up a book about meditations for singles. Talks about being single in a couples’ world.
That said, I’m going to talk out of both sides of my mouth, and it is also nice to see around me all sorts of lovely-looking women. I know I still have miles to go in my sitch, and who knows what will happen next, but there is at least a flicker of hope, in general. If this makes me sound like a WAS on my own, then so be it.
So W and I had a dustup while FF was out tonight and we were making dinner:
[Background: When I do dishes, which is most nights I’m home, I almost always hand-wash pots, pans, cookie sheets, etc., and then I hand dry them with a towel and leave them out on the stove to also air-dry. I almost never put them away before bed or the next morning—when I do, it’s usually around dinner the next day.]
W: "you never put them away...."
Me: "I never....?" [I absolutely hate when she uses always / never, so I’ve been trying to call her on it. Yeah, I did it quite a bit earlier in MR, but I’ve turned away from it.]
W: "You struggle..."
Me: "That must be very difficult for you..." [Okay, so I’ll 2x4 myself here for the tone, because I do know that it came out a bit sarcastic. I know—not helpful.]
Then she slams me for my tone and goes on (which, okay, I deserved a little bit).
She points her finger at me as she lays in to me, and I tell her, while holding YS, to please not talk to me like that. I say that a couple more times and then when she doesn’t stop, I then walk away carrying YS into another room.
She then finds me and tells me that if I want to talk, then let's talk because she's been wanting to talk for months but has gotten nothing out of me. She says it's like talking to a brick wall; worse, a brick wall that condescends.
She tells me she wants to know what I'm thinking, how I'm feeling—and she's had NONE of that from me for the last few months. What I’m doing with her is trying to validate / reflect back to her (some moments better than others); I’m letting very little of my emotions go through to her. Why should I tell her my emotions? So it can be used against me? Plus, I can’t reason / logic her to stay. For me, it’s kind of a Catch-22: I show my emotions, and she loses respect because I’m not much of a man (I get too sad / mopey, or too angry or too whatever). When I let little of that show? Not good enough.
So here is where I tried again with another, more sincere “that must be really difficult for you.” And here it comes: Yeah, it’s difficult for her, and she said she wants a partner, because she hasn't had a partner for months.
Unreal. She’s fired me as H a few times (Feb. 2018 with ILYBINILWY; Oct. 2018 with initial talk of separation; January 2019 with parenting plan, which is the legal date of separation; March 2019 D papers), and yet she’s the one who doesn’t have a partner? She goes out for work or with friends and I help with the kids and say little if anything about it (she’s going out with a female work friend on Thursday night for dinner). She’s been sick the last few days, so I’ve been doing most of the caregiving, and taking care of making dinner (I’m not complaining, but I’m stating what I’ve been doing). YS wakes up in the middle of the night and won’t fall back asleep? Daddy—you walk him around or rock him back to sleep. I’ve been doing my level best to say little / complain about things, and I’m also trying to embrace the time with the boys
I’ve also been taking her gym bag down to her car when I take YS’ diaper bag and bottles / lunch in the mornings before I leave. (A couple of months ago, she told me she wanted a partner to help, and so I offered taking all those bags as a potential remedy, and I’ve been doing that almost every morning I’ve been able to do so since. I know A/S told me don’t expect it to change things, but I’ve been framing it more mentally as doing it for YS, at least with his bags. In light of the D papers, I’ve wondered if I should stop taking her gym bag down—sounds like a job a husband would do, and she’s long since fired me as that.)
Since late-November, I’ve given her no ILYs, no affection / kisses, no asking for sex or intentional seduction of any kind, no dates besides our anniversary dinner before Christmas. She hasn’t had a partner for months? Tell me about it—and now I’m starting to imagine / take seriously a life without her. I also wonder if this may be her beginning to experience some sort of loss—maybe she is thinking that she’s starting to lose me. Or maybe it’s not that at all (no sense in mind-reading, and I probably shouldn’t flatter myself).
I’m sure that I probably could have handled this better, and probably some things I could be 2x4’ed for, and I’m also sure that there may be some things that W could be trying to tell me (usually a focus for LH, which I do appreciate). I’m sure W and I will have a talk after FF leaves on Tuesday. The question I really, really want to ask of her is: do you want a partner, or do you want a co-parent? I can do either. If all of this (and I mean EVERYTHING) is about not having a partner (including the recent D papers), then, man, I don’t know what to say. I’ll do my best to 180 on what I can, but I also don’t want her to manipulate me back into being a partner with D papers.
I’m not sure how fully detached I am if I’m posting about this, but right now I’m just at a point of mental exhaustion and ‘whatever’ with her about this. I’ve just about had it with this from her.
