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FS,

I can completely understand how creepy and unnerving it must be to have him entering the house and hanging around at will, even when you aren't there. Especially after a year! It would drive me up a wall. My W left in August and still comes back to walk the dog twice a week. But we have an agreed upon schedule and 99% of the time I make sure that I am not around. At one point, she took some motorcycle gloves from the house, and when I noticed I asked her not to take anything else without asking. I am fortunate that she has been respectful of the space and of my need for detachment.

That said, is it really a boundary if you can't enforce it? I don't know the laws over there, but it sounds like so long as you are still married he has a right to enter the house. From what you say it doesn't seem like you can do anything to him if he keeps doing it (other than getting mad or making angry comments, which doesn't really help.)


W 34 Me 42
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FlySolo Offline OP
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The law (unsurprisingly) is a little grey. I can't deny him access (e.g. if I change the locks, he can get a locksmith in to break-in), but he has to be respectful of my space by doing things like asking permission or waiting to be invited. We could fight it out in court and see where the cards fall but then this would turn adversarial and we are so far, fairly decent to one another. I would be interested in your view Yorkie (having been married to a divorce lawyer) if you read this.

I remember the glove incident and I remember how much it wound you up. But your W and my H are not the same. From what I read of her, before she turned into an alien, she was a decent person. I am not saying my H isn't. But he is the boy who licked all the chocolates in the box so his brother wouldn't eat them (true story and happened more than once). He will never respect my request to not come and go as he pleases so I have never asked him outright not to come here. I have only asked him to tell me first.

I did not tell him he could not come and go as he pleases. I simply said this not his home. You are right, this is a boundary I cannot enforce (well, I probably could, but I'd need to get lawyers involved) but it put the seed of doubt in his head. Right now he doesn't even think about coming and going as he pleases. He just does. But now there is a small seed of doubt that perhaps he shouldn't be sitting on the sofa watching netflix when no-one else is here (which btw is what he does most of the time) and perhaps he shouldn't be in my bedroom, even if it is only to look for D12's shorts.

Seeds of doubt have a way of eating you up.

Alison - yes it has been going on a long time. Long before I joined this forum.


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Originally Posted by FlySolo
AS - It is not often I disagree with you but this time I do.

He does not live here. He moved out over a year ago. This is not his home.

1. He chose to move and call somewhere else his home.
2. He does not contribute to the mortgage and never has (note: I am not bitter about this - if/when it comes to splitting the assets then we will split them 50/50.).


Ah, well that makes more sense but I don't understand why you would tell him it is "his house" if it's not. And why would he have any say about the deck or anything else if it's your house?

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We talk a lot on this site about regaining our self respect and putting aside our inner mister nice guy and stating clearly that we will not be disrespected. My H coming and going as he pleases is disrespectful to me.


So why do you continue to let it happen? Put a stop to it. Change the locks. Install a security system and don't give him the code (Ring is a good one, you can disarm it remotely if he or someone else needs access). Tell him he can only gain entry with your approval, and that he needs to call you first so you can disarm the system.

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BTW - you were the one that said the camera thing was, to use your words, creepy AF. Yes, it (was) creepy. But more to the point, it was controlling.


And it's still there, isn't it? TAKE CONTROL. You complain a lot about his control and manipulation, but then you don't do anything to stop it except keep asking him not to (and that has never worked). You have GOT to back up your boundaries with ACTION, otherwise you will continue to get walked all over. So for example, tell him "I have asked you over and over again not to let yourself into my house and you continue to do so. If this doesn't stop right away I am going to change the locks and install a security system." Then if he keeps doing it, then change the locks and install the security system.

Last edited by AnotherStander; 04/17/19 07:07 PM.

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Hi FS

I can give you my experience from a policing perspective because it is often an area that gets stuck between civil and criminal law. I don't think there is much doubt that at the moment he has a legal right to occupy the house. Therefore if you prevent him access then he has the right to enter the property, provided he then makes good any damage. However, despite his lawful authority to be present in the house, he does risk breaking criminal law by trying to enforce his lawful authority if that constitutes a threat of violence against the person or premises when against the wishes of the occupier. It's messy and not a road I would advise either party to go down.

Really the only way is to apply to a court for an occupation order whereby you would have to convince a judge that it is necessary to keep you or the children safe. Very often unsuccessful except in cases of domestic violence. If he then broke the order and you felt in danger then the Police would assist in removing him.

So, where does this leave you FS? I accept the view that it is an unenforceable boundary. However, you have stated it clearly and succinctly. If he chooses to not listen then it gives you cause to consider that he is showing you no respect whatsoever.

I get the whole 'you've got to be prepared to carry through with your threats' theory when it comes to children. He's not a child, you're not his mother. If he carries on regardless, without reasonable discussion, what does it say about him and you?

So, I think it is a type of boundary - a 'virtual boundary' It is putting your situation in context. I live here. It is my home. The children live here. It is their home. You do not live here and therefore I do not consider it your home.

You've given him food for thought. Let's see what he does.

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Thanks Yorkie - that's what I thought. I have spoken to solicitors (three to be exact) and that was their view too. It is an 'iffy' area.

AS - it is his house because he is on the deeds. However, I paid the deposit and I have always paid the mortgage. In the eyes of the law this doesn't matter. He didn't earn as much as me and you support each other when you are married. He is entitled to half the house if/when the house is sold.

But there is a philosophical distinction between house and home. I house is something you own. It is a financial investment. A home is somewhere you live. It has emotional value. The wording I used when speaking to him was the wording suggested by all three of the solicitors. Your house. My home. It may not have a legal standing, but it has a ethical one.

As Yorkie says I cannot legally change the locks. However, I disabled the camera on Sunday (after I asked him to remove himself from he told me to do it myself) and, today I installed a lock on by bedroom door. You're right I should have done all this ages ago. Fear. Might be a small thing to you. But it is huge for me.

I cannot control much - he can come and go as he pleases, we have no regular childcare schedule to speak of (it is completely dependent on his roster) and I am a high earner so he pays me a nominal amount for the children - but I am getting on with my life regardless.

As always, I appreciate your words. Sometimes I come here just to moan about my H because I cannot do it IRL so apologize if it came across that way.


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The more I think about it FS, the more I think that this is a massive thing for you. It's a line in the sand which is done whilst taking into account the dynamic of your relationship. I love a bit of confrontation myself but changing the locks is an unnecessary aggressive move I think. Too drastic and dramatic.

I know AlisonUK had very specific understandable reasons for doing so, but you are not in that position. Seriously, if you in your situation have to use the law to prevent your spouse from entering the marital property, then I think it's a pretty done deal that there isn't anything left worth saving. A history of violence is a different perspective.

Heck even my H respected my request not to be in my bedroom when I wasn't here. He immediately said that if he wanted something he would ask me to leave it out.

Leading a double life with a OW is the height of marital disrespect in my view, and even he didn't disrespect this request from me.

So, It's a request. Technically not a boundary. A H should show respect for that request shouldn't he? If he doesn't, it speaks volumes I believe and may create a response from you far more powerful than any lock changing.

It rather looks like he's tempted to get into a pi**ing contest about house / home, it's mine / it's yours. Don't play. You've stated your request.

Your tone sounds a bit different FS. I think this may be a pivotal time for you. I would love to get hold of him and tell him to stop pi**ing about and see the writing on the wall.

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It rather looks like he's tempted to get into a pi**ing contest about house / home, it's mine / it's yours.


This is how it looks to me, too. I honestly think being in the house as much as he is - or insisting on having these silly discussions about your reasonable requests for privacy - are about power and control and territory. I think it's right what Yorkie says - don't get involved in it - just state what you want and respond to his response in your own time and in your own way.

I did change the locks on my house. At the time - over Christmas and New Year - H was drinking a lot, behaving very erratically and illogically - there was lots of ranting and slamming doors - and there had been one previous instance of domestic abuse, on record with the police. It felt to me both necessary for my peace of mind (he carried on drinking heavily for the first six weeks of our separation and I didn't want him to take it into his head to turn up at the house drunk) and sensible for my safely. It was technically against UK law but if he'd have broken the door down while drunk I'd have been in a strong position to have him removed by the police and a non molestation order put in place.

Thankfully, it never came to that and things are different now. He is not drinking as he was, and when he comes to the house to visit the children he comes sober and does not bring drink with him. I asked him for that and he's agreed and we've never needed to discuss it since. He also comes to the house by prior arrangement - he never and has never just turned up. He has a key back now. He's agreed not to turn up without notice and to let me know if he needs to come to the house when I am not here (most of his things are here still) and that has worked well so far. If it stopped working well, I think I would change the lock again. It wasn't particularly expensive. He doesn't knock on the door - he uses his key - but I feel okay about that given that he always texts to let me know he is about to arrive.

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Yorkie - Yes, there is definitely something in the air. It isn't dropping the rope exactly, not in the same way DV and you have anyway. It is more subtle and incremental in nature. A quieter acceptance.

Honestly, I thought his reaction was going to be worse than trying to exclude me from dinner. I think he knows my request are reasonable and was probably just hoping I'd be too scared to ask. I'd never thought about it before, but punishment is actually what he tries to do. But he left, and the "things" he has to punish me with are becoming few and far between. He has left, he has told me he is not coming back. What else is there?

Despite the above, our interactions have been friendly. It is freeier and less weighted. It flows. There are still awkward moments (like last night when I said I had plans for Saturday night and couldn't swap - you could feel the sudden drop in temperature) and there are still some no-go topics (anything which might lead to an R conversation) but, strangely, I feel we are in a much better place today (friend wise) than we were two years ago (which is when I think this all actually started). When he came over last night, I asked him if he'd like to join us and we sat and had a (mostly) awkward free conversation.

**************
Journalling

H's dad had a heart attack this morning. The kids are on holidays and H and I (and the nanny) are juggling the child care between us. Today, he came over at 8 this morning to watch the kids until the nanny arrives. When I got to work my phone started ringing and it was H. He always texts so I was a little taken aback and answered immediately. He told me his dad had had a heart attach whilst driving and had been rushed to hospital. He wanted me to ask the nanny to come early so he could go be with his dad. Unfortunately the nanny has another job in the morning but I offered to come home and watch the girls. I said D12 could watch D9 until I got back (about an hour). He said it was alright and he would get D12 to watch D9 until the nanny arrived.

When we got off the phone I wondered if it would be appropriate to text him and if I did, what would be the appropriate thing to say. I landed at "Hi - I hope it's all OK. Give your dad my love. Let me know if there is anything you need".

He said thanks and will do and then sent a couple of updates during the day. He asked if it would be Ok to come see the girls on his way home, and I said of course. He could stay for dinner if he wanted and even offered to make myself scarce. The girls are a great comfort to me when I am feeling down (I know, not their responsibility, but they don't need to do anything, I just like being around them).

He ended up not coming over as it was late by the time he left the hospital but he called and we spoke for a bit. Mostly about his dad. Depending on how his dad is he might not be able to have the girls this weekend. I said of course, it wasn't a problem and that I'd offer any support I could.

Hopefully that came across as sympathy and not pursuit. It wasn't intended as pursuit. He was the man I shared my life with for 16 years. I still want him to know I care.


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That wasn't pursuit. No, don't doubt yourself in this. It was support. The rules change in a situation like this, and I'm so sorry for you and your H's family.

I am wishing him (and you) well during this tough time.

You are an expert an understanding the subtleties needed in different situations. In this one, don't doubt your instinct. Follow them. You may need to offer your strength and support in ways you would not in any other circumstance. This is an exception to the rule and do not feel guilty. We have "DB DB DB" drilled into our heads, but it's okay to act differently right now.

I am hoping for the best possible outcome for your H's father, whatever that might be.

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Yail’s right... it’s not pursuit. It is you supporting your husband...which he technically still is. It is also what you would do for a friend or anyone else you care about. No judgment here FS. You just be you and do what you think is right. Hope your H’s father comes through this okay. (((HUGS)))

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