Dealing with a complex MLC and/or Wayward Wife

[P_Jam]

Honesty, I'm not sure the root cause. There definitely was a long period of time where we had a very sexless marriage (it's not an excuse just fact). Although I believe there are other issues involved. Fear of rejection, power, boundary issues, etc.. I'm working through understanding this better now in IC. I regret it soooo much I cant explain the guilt I have felt. But part of my recovery was putting the information on the table. I was also very empathetic to my wife as I do know looking back that my infidelity was not her fault, and although a sexless marriage may have been a piece of it, it was not about her! This was my issue. I find some solace in realizing my ways and ending the affairs as well as not indulging 2yrs after (and our marriage was not that much better, although there was some more sex). But I was assuming that my wife would also have similar guilt and I had hoped that my sharing would help alleviate some of that in this situation. Maybe it alleviated ALL of it and that is why I am where I am - but I doubt that is the case. I believe it is just the current mind of a MLC/WW. Now obviously, only time will tell if she can get over my infidelity, but that won't even come into play until she returns from her current fog.

Whats interesting about my situation compared to others that I have read is; my wife is not particularly cold to me. She keeps wanting to be 'friends' and "act as if". However, if she is still having affairs I cannot do this. I know that she is scared/nervous for being on her own. I know that she still has love for me. But she is fully engulfed in feeling like there is something better out there, and that there is the 'perfect relationship'. When in fact she is not taking any responsibility for her own happiness, nor is she accepting any responsibility for issues in our relationship (not to take away from mine). I feel like she wants me around for the stability while she plays the field. I'm familiar with a lot of her EA/PA and I'm really not too concerned about being 'replaced' by these guys (one if he leaves is wife MIGHT turn into something more serious) but the rest is all attention and girls gone wild. If this is true, it feels like hope <-- but I know this is emotionally dangerous.

Which is why I'm a littler nervous for some of my actions. Again, it feels right to give tough love, but I will always wonder if I should have just let her stay in the house while we try to see what can happen. That being said; I know myself and if she continued with the affairs while still being with me, I'm not the guy to just sit and absorb that. I've been around for 16yrs through thick and thin, difficult child rearing and although I know I have neglected her, I also know that there is no competition to the rush she is feeling in these affairs. As I told her.. I will not be plan B.

[LH19]

PJ,

In house separation rarely if ever works. You are doing the right thing to open the cage door and set her free into the wild. It's not an easy life out there for a single woman with two young children.

I hate to tell you PJ but right now you are plan B. The longer she knows it, the longer this plays out.

[P_Jam]

LH,

I agree. That is why I have also already started LRT inside the house. I plan to go dark/grey as soon as she moves out and only discuss things necessary about the kids.

two days ago when she came to me about being "more friends" (small talk, how was your day, etc) I made it clear that is not where we are. She also seems to assume we will be spending quality family time together on the weekends and doing events. Although I did not address this specifically I believe I made it clear that would not be our relationship. She wants/needs space - She GETS space!

Frankly, because of what I know: Moving from a 2500sq ft house with large yard to a 3 bedroom apartment with two VERY active boys is going to be difficult, financially it will also be difficult (even with what I'm paying). The fact that I know there is still love there, and that she is making small steps to get IC (she called two DR's but they were not accepting new patients), the affect it will have on the kids as soon as the move happens. I know she has SOME regret about her random hook-up "what am I doing?, I didn't even know that guy. Why would I be doing this?" I'm hopeful that lifting the fog or rock-bottom maybe sooner rather than later. <-- silly I know.

At this point she still acts as if she is the only victim. She will say that; what she did was wrong BUT.. you cheated on me and lied to me for 2years! And you bugged me! <-- This is her stance! Still no real accountability. Maybe when she realizes the grass is not greener this will come?

[LH19]

Yeah I think you are going to regret revealing all your cards this early in the process.

Yeah it is not uncommon for the WAS to want to be friends and do family things together. They will eat cake until the cows come home if given the choice.

Unfortunately my friends the fog lift and rock bottom are likely years away.

[IHCLACS]

Shaving their privates, their legs, grooming, better makeup, new/old perfume more frequently, wedding ring off, new clothes, spa treatments, msnicure/pedicure, new music, more dermatology appontments, yoga classes, weight loss programs. My WW once in the same conversation unawaringly said women do this to better take care of themselves, because in these situations they need to implement better self care, but also do it because it is what guys expect from them. Some women do it because they are in competition with other women.

[P_Jam]

LH,
Call it denial, arrogance or both.. I currently have a hard time believing the 'fog' will last years. This does not mean she will come back to me. But I do believe she has already started to notice that her actions have a compulsive nature (not just moving on from me). She also doesn't like to be alone. IF she does start IC I think it will start to reveal that not everything going on in her mind is as she thinks it is. I also think that because our kids are still so young the significant lifestyle change she (we) are about to encounter as single parents is going to significantly affect her. I'm more familiar than most in the guys she is currently seeing and they may be around every other weekend when she doesn't have the kids, but they will not be there the rest of the time. She may continue with girls gone wild for a while, but my wife has only pulled away from the kids a little. She's a devoted mother. A little less now, but that was probably needed anyway.

My best guess is; she has been a little WW for about 1-2yrs at the most. Crossing boundaries here and there over a period of time. Then BD and turning it up a notch. I do believe you are correct, I would be in a better place if I didn't show all of my cards so early but good, bad or indifferent the other steps I've taken so far are going to help her see reality sooner rather than later. I'm not sure which came first WW or MLC but I believe i'm dealing with both. My wife NEVER wanted anything more out of life than being a mother. She's had that for 9yrs now and I believe she woke up one day and realized it's just not the fulfillment she expected. It's a TON of work and she never found her release like I did (which is one reason she blames me). Then she also realized she's getting older and body parts are not looking the same. Then she combined that with my neglect and pinned the root cause on me and the relationship, and started looking for the 'honeymoon' passion. The "its easy if it right relationship". She currently thinks the attention and 'bond' with these A's is reality, but we all know they are not. We've had our ups/downs. I have been a bit absent in our relationship - but I too have tried to resolve some of this in the past (although she doesn't recognize that right now). We have been VERY GOOD co-parents for 9yrs now. We have 2 wonderful young boys. I think she will feel a loss to the family structure in general. Again, none of this means that she will get over my infidelity but I am hopeful that if the fog lifts we can start to understand if the next step is possible or not. I'm pretty confident that I'm not the guy to wait/try for years. We'll see what happens here in the coming weeks/months but I doubt I can go beyond 3-6 months. I think the biggest hurdle to R is the work/process needed to actually rebuild trust and R. I'm worried that even if she realizes what she's lost and that the grass is not greener, she may not have the fortitude to actually do what is necessary to rebuild OUR relationship.

I don't know... maybe I'm just naive. But I do still see glimpses of the woman I married (although currently masked with anger) I recognized the cause of the MLC, and she may need to find herself again (or realized that motherhood isn't that bad either, when compared to being single with young kids at 45. I also know that our relationship was not as bad as she remembers. The girls gone wild is definitely not someone I recognized <-- this is 200% out of character, but I also know that she is not totally blind to that fact as well. She knows something is wrong, but has not yet recognized the issues are internal not external.

I have not doubt i'm still trying to control the situation. And it is out of my control, but there are still things that are in my control. Affecting the 'losses'. 180, etc. Things that continue to make her question her actions and decisions. I know I should be doing all of this for different reasons, and hopefully that just comes in time. As of now... the controlling aspects are the compulsion for me.

[P_Jam]

Okay question:

I've been reading through Kiro's incredible thread(s) - What I learned from my wife's MLC. I'm gaining some incredible perspective and feel more empathy then ever to lead with love. However, from above you can see i'm dealing with multiple EA/PA's some in the past some ongoing. Currently she does not have a steady PA that I'm aware of. But the original PA that launched BD is still in the picture. I just don't believe they are physical on a regular basis and it very well could have only been that once. However, the more they see/talk the more chance there is of more.

Now.. She does not know that I know she is still chatting with him. She also does not know that I know about random one night stand a few weeks ago. But this is what caused me to ask her to move out.

Because she does not know that I know.. I'm stuck between 180 (showing her what she's missing) and WW "tough love". In her mind I don't have a REASON for tough love. It might just look like more of the same.

I do believe I have a way of expressing that I know (or have a pretty good idea what happened that night). The other guy was married and there is talk that his wife found out about it (or somebody in that group did) and they are texting my wife. Therefore, it may be possible to disclose my knowledge without signaling the snooping. Someone told me..

I'm very inclined to try this. It does 2 things before she actually move out. Allows me to 'get it off my chest' a little. Allows your to think and acknowledge why my emotions seem so passive aggressive. Right now I'm still not pursuing and don't plan to but I also feel discouraged with the tough love sometimes, as it seems to come from nowhere.

Thoughts?

[joejoe1]

P,

If you are going to hold a person accountable they need to know why. You aren't doing her any good by just showing tough love without telling her why.

I think tough love is needed.

[ovrrnbw]

In her mind I don't have a REASON for tough love.

Actually, she does know. Just because you aren't articulating every instance to her doesn't mean she doesn't know. Who cares if you're snooping or you found out from the neighbors or whoever? YOU KNOW. That's enough. You don't have to prove anything. You don't have to play games.

You're trying to bend over backwards to disclose knowledge without signaling snooping? I feel like you're overthinking it.

[P_Jam]

Logically I agree. However last time it just gave her a reason to turn it around and continue to avoid any accountability. I understand I have a right/reason but I do want it to be useful to my overall cause.