Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
P
P_Jam Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
Hello all,
I have been lurking on this site for just over a month now and figured it was time to share my story. There is an incredible amount of good information here and i'm already thankful for the vets that continue to post and support the rest of us. I find A LOT of similarities in other stories in regards to MLC and wayward wife. However, there are few differences in mine - that so far make it a little unique. So here goes..

In August 18' my wife had a conversation with me where she said "she wasn't happy". I don't particularly remember this conversation but I don't deny it occurred. I probably just thought it was another 'fight' and after making-up it was over. I've since been informed this was a small or 'pre' BD. Starting in October my wife started going out more with here single and/or divorced friends. I thought nothing of it. We have two kids S9 & S5 and she has been an amazing mother to these children (basically to her detriment). I have always had my outlet (golf) and i used it often (too often). Through October, November, and December she was continuing to go out and party till early in the mornings (2-3 times a month). This seemed okay at the time as she would let me golf during the day and I would be home to take care of the kids as she went out with her friends. Again, I still didn't see the signs. Part of me was actually happy that she finally deciding to get out of the house and do something. From my perspective I have been trying to build our relationship with her for a couple of years (yes I should have tried much harder). I always felt like priority number 5 in a house of 4. We have one child with some special needs (nothing too dramatic but S9 has been A lot of work since day 1) and we've basically just became good co-parents and both let our relationship take a complete backseat. We both also work full time.

Then late December (I think 21st or 22nd) I was sitting in my home office and she says "do you mind if I go out this Saturday with "the girls" again? As it was so close to the holidays I was just a little taken back. So I said "huh? Where are you going?" And then she said "A BAR!" in a rebellious tone I had never heard before. Threw me off, but I said "sure go ahead". But it just didn't sit right this time. So I started to think and worry a little about what was happening. I still didn't understand the full scope - but something was up. I immediately decided to just invest in the kids that night a) because it was the holidays and we needed to do something and b) because I figured doing the 'family thing' without her would get her attention a little. So I took the kids all over the city that night looking at every major Christmas light display we could find. Posting each stop on Facebook to make sure she would see. As the next couple of days go by we both get invested in the holidays - but I can still feel something is up, but being naive I thought maybe it was just me overthinking things again. But my gut said something was up. So we're kinda walking around the issue/subject but do discuss that we need "to talk". We agree to get through the holidays and save the deep discussion for after the 1st. She goes back to work on the 26th and as she's leaving I just feel weird. So I call her on the way to work and say "Hey, we have our issue right? And we're going to work on those and get through it - but this doesn't have to do with ANYONE else - Correct?!?!?! She immediately says "no, there is no one else" this is about us. I would not do that!" This time, I'm just not convinced. I go up stairs and spend a few hours dissecting the phone bill to discover over 400 texts and some calls to a guy I don't know. When she comes home I ask her if we're going to talk tonight. She says about what? I don't even want to discuss that subject anymore. There isn't anything to talk about. Then remind her that I'm the one that pays and has access to the phone bill. Her jaw drops! So I press and she admits that she probably crossed a line by having this contact (EA) not including me in this group of friends, etc. But that NOTHING physical happened. We argue fight late into the evening about about OM and the situation but it's all denial. I tell her its still very wrong and is an EA. I discuss ending the relationship but we ultimately agree that we can work through this. 2 days later I'm leaving town to visit family. I'm a trust but verify kinda guy. So I set up a recorder before I leave. We are texting/talking while I'm gone. She is continuing to deny anything physical and even wants to talk when I get home. She says I'll feel better about the situation once we do. I say okay. I return, we have a talk she fully admits what she did was wrong but it still wasn't what I thought. I believe her, we agree to work on 'us' and put this behind us. The next morning, I pull my tapes to find out that as soon as Ieft to go out of town she called everyone that knew and created a cover-up. PA CONFIRMED! (one time physical).

During these discussions we have a lot of conversations about why she isn't happy. And I fully recognize what she is saying and understand my responsibility in the downfall of our relationship. Although I know it's not all me, I do/did accept the lions share of the issues and commit to full change. I immediately book myself into IC as I do have some unresolved father issues to deal with, as well as other issues <-- this is important later. The point is; I did not let her know that I had found out the truth. I started to make my changes becoming a much better father and husband all while holding in the betrayal and lies. but I was also continuing to record some conversations. I did this for 2 reasons. I wanted to understand if there was more, if it was ongoing etc. I also wanted some time to process all the information and decide if this was a deal breaker. I continued my efforts and I know the better husband/father was fully recognized by her. That being said; I felt like I was doing all the work, and with what I knew that did not seem fair. This continued for over 3 weeks but I kept up my changes. I was able to do this because of those "other issues" I spoke about earlier. 2 years prior I had my own affair(s) I ended them on my own, carried the guilt figured it was just something I would have to live with. But I was committed to never doing it again. Therefore, I was able to empathize with her actions. I could put myself in her shoes. I could recognize that it really wasn't about me/her. It was about a relationship that was lacking and needed work.

Now.. even with this empathy the pressure cooker was still building steam. She had another "girls night" coming up and because I had heard phone conversations I knew that there Might be a little more to this evening than just the girls. I had also confirmed at least one more EA, and suspicion of other PA affairs in the past (timing still unknown). All seem to be short lived and nothing too serious. A little more than one night stands but not necessarily ongoing. Accept one major EA with a guy that is married and lives relatively far away (he is never there on 'girls night'). But you're getting the point... it's not JUST ONE. My affair was not just one either - so again, i began to rationalize/justify and figure that I can handle all of this. We just need to take the steps to end this M, come clean and build are 2nd M together. So.. the night of girls night, just before she leaves (the pressure inside me is at an all time high). I walk into her office, look her directly in the eyes and tell her "I know the truth!" She tries to deny one more time but my obvious dead pan stair is pretty convincing... I divulge the details that solidify my information. I also tell her that I can forgive her because I too have strayed multiple times in the past. AND THAT IS WHY I'M IN THERAPY. I haven't done anything in 2yrs, I don't ever want to do it again, and I want to fully understand why I did it the first time. We can do this together. We can build a second M that is more than we thought possible. In short.. her reaction not quite what I hoped. She immediately turned it on me, played the victim and insisted on continue to go out that night. I begged her not to leave. Please stay and let's get through this! She left. So.. this was essentially BD. I had also divulged some information about the other EA which lead her then to understand how I might be getting the information. when she returned (the next day) she was silent and would not talk. Just completely shut down. I continued to try and talk through it. Explain how we've both messed this up, but we can both fix it. Shes reluctant continues to act like the ONLY victim and asks if I 'bugged' her office. I admit to it all (as my approach now is to get it ALL on the table and move forward). She decides this is such an invasion of privacy that she doesn't think she can get over it. Over the next couple of days she basically re-BD's and pushes to end the relationship.

This is where the begging and pleading ensues from me... at least 2 full days of it. But she starts to show signs of coming over to my side. We do family stuff, and although it's weird you can tell she trying to process if this is possible. So I continue to push and 'work' the situation. I make some headway and although she doesn't fully commit she's not walking out the door yet. Basically I agree to just give her some time/space to process. So at least a week goes by and she still won't open up. She asks some questions about my affairs and I answer them all. But she won't engage in a two way conversation about her situation(s) or the future of the relationship. She says she needs space and that she thinks she needs to move out. I push to resolve this without her moving out, we go to my IC together to discuss how to give her space while staying in the house. I do everything requested (including removing all recording devices). Buy her a detector that can find the devices for her assurance, etc. But she insists that she is still going to look for a place to live as she doesn't feel comfortable in the house. Couple of weeks go by and it just feels like we're in limbo. I'm working on it, she isn't. She is still researching places to live (although she is taking her time). But I"m fine with that (although I'm still pursuing a little as I have yet to find DB). BUT....

There is another 'girls night' coming up. At first I"m okay with it. I feel like I need to give her the space and although I don't really 'trust' her - she wouldn't just jump right back into this - Right?. Note: I did previously confirm (before removing devices) that she ended the PA on her own because I found out. However, there was a chance through mutual friends that he was going to be at the same concert for this 'girls night'.. We had agreed (multiple times) that while we were working through this we would NOT be sleeping with other people. But again something didn't feel right. So I took other precautions that night. She did not hook up with the original PA - but she did hook up with some other completely random guy!!! HOLY CRAP WHO IS THIS WOMAN?

The next day I do not confront her. Again I decide to hold the information (not really sure why this time) probably just shock. We have a small family vacation coming up in the next couple of days. so I finally open up about the situation to a couple close friends and some close family. I explain that although I believe this is MLC I think I need to do something. I start researching.. I go on the vacation try to fake it, but towards the end the pressure is building and I just start to pull away. I have now decided that she needs to move out but not sure when I'm going to tell her. And not sure if I'm going to explain why.. We return from vacation and she asks why I was distant. I said, I've been doing a lot of thinking and I think you are right.. this is not working as I had hoped. I still seem to be the only one actively working on the relationship. So I think you should move out, and I would like you to be out in 30days! - but I do not disclose my knowledge of her activities that night.

Essentially present day... She has found an apartment, moves out the 1st-2nd week in April. I still want to save this M - but feel the only way it can be saved is by 'letting her go'. Which I've now done physically by asking her to move out, but have not accomplished this emotionally. I'm now using the LRT while she is still in the house. We are cordial and polite in front of the kids but no small talk. No relationship talk. She has approached me twice now asking why we can't be more "friends" and I explain that she fired me as her husband. Until she is ready to work on this relationship, we really don't have one. We need to figure out how to get the kids through this.

Thoughts? Did I do too much to fast? It feels like the right moves for a MLC/WW as she seems to be in fantasy land and the only way to lift the fog is to let her go and see if the grass is actually greener.

Now, as I said, i'm still completely attached emotionally. I will now need to start that process - but A lot has happened in this sitch in a very short amount of time.

Yours truly,
P_Jam


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
P_Jam, I missed your thread, just caught it on page 2. I will catch up on your sitch later today.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
PJ,

I am sorry you are here but you came to the right place. You started off doing a lot of the wrong things but it looks like you are headed in the right direction. Letting her go to get her back is the right move right now. A random hookup is very concerning and it sounds like she has some major issues to deal with right now.

You didn't mention your ages and how long you have been together. You should include a signature to help us better understand your situation.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by P_Jam
However, there are few differences in mine - that so far make it a little unique.


Each situation is unique, yet they almost all have a lot of commonalities as well, including yours. OK so you know you have a lying cheater on your hands. Unfortunately you have been as well, one thing you neglected to mention is if W knew about it at the time or did you just recently disclose that to her? The reason I ask is if you told her before, that may have been the beginning of the end. It is extremely difficult (sometimes even impossible) to rebuild trust after something like that. She may see her current actions as "getting back at you". Of course that is a poor way of handling it, but WAS's minds work in strange ways.

One thing I would suggest is to stop the snooping. Once you know you've got a lying cheater on your hands then there's really no point in continuing to snoop. Snooping will just drive her farther undercover with her activities. It gets increasingly difficult to find things out and as you get more desperate in your snooping you will leave a trail of crumbs and she will see it and be even more resentful.

Quote
Thoughts? Did I do too much to fast?


Well, yeah I think you're trying to control a situation that's out of your control and you've been very hasty in your actions. Very hot and cold. One minute you're trying to beg and plead with her and the next you're telling her to hit the road and don't look back. You can imagine what kind of message you're sending to her. That said, she's a wayward and tough love is about the only thing that has any impact on them, so I don't disagree with your asking her to leave.

Quote
It feels like the right moves for a MLC/WW as she seems to be in fantasy land and the only way to lift the fog is to let her go and see if the grass is actually greener.


Yes, but you can't do things hoping for that kind of a reaction from her. Don't kick her out to "wake her up" or "teach her a lesson", you have to do things because they are what is right for YOU and the kids without concern with how it impacts her.

Quote
Now, as I said, i'm still completely attached emotionally.


Have you read DR? What are you doing to GAL?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
P
P_Jam Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Steve85
P_Jam, I missed your thread, just caught it on page 2. I will catch up on your sitch later today.


Steve I look forward to your insight
Originally Posted by LH19
PJ,

I am sorry you are here but you came to the right place. You started off doing a lot of the wrong things but it looks like you are headed in the right direction. Letting her go to get her back is the right move right now. A random hookup is very concerning and it sounds like she has some major issues to deal with right now.

You didn't mention your ages and how long you have been together. You should include a signature to help us better understand your situation.


LH19, noted. I have updated my signature.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
P
P_Jam Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
Another Stander,
Thanks for you comments/questions!

She did not know at the time. It may have been my writing that confused you... but I disclosed my infidelity when I informed her that I knew her truth. It is where I made my line in the sand in regards to our relationship and that I didn't want anymore secrets and wanted to build a new relationship. Therefore, her original indiscretion is not revenge. However, the random hookup and acceleration of WW may be due to this new found information?

I totally agree, I know that these action in large me still trying to control the situation. The hot/cold passive aggression is also just the natural process as i began to unfold the different sets of information as well as discover DB and different 'strategies' based on my roller coaster of emotions. It was the WW "tough love" that helped me decide that she needed to move out. She was not working on the relationship while living in the house (felt like cake eating) and continued to lie and cheat. I wholeheartedly agree that asking her to move out was in part to teach her a lesson, but also to provide the opportunity of a "loss" as Sandi2 has suggested is necessary. Furthermore, when I found out about her original PA I did tell there that I would not allow that while living under this roof, she agreed. She broke that boundary/rule so I asked her to move out.. but the caveat is that she does not know I know she broke that rule. So I'm wondering if/when I should disclose that or not.

I know I need to do whats best for me (but I"m not sure yet what that is yet). I am working GAL, getting back into golf hanging with my friends, back in the gym, and spending a lot of time with my kids. Although my motives are off (still controlling) I guess I'm faking it until I make it. Trying to do my best to help break the 'fog' and create loss before she moves out in 3 weeks. Which is when I'll be forced to stop snooping (I'm hoping to let go before she leaves) but it's the hardest think I've every done, trying not to continue to snoop and figure out how bad this gets. I think a part of me hopes that I will get more information and reach a point where I'm just not interested in R.

Yes I have red DV.


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Yep. Early to mid 40s is when we typically see the girls gone wild activities on this board.

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
P
P_Jam Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 119
Yes, all the signs are there for MLC "girls gone wild". Invisiline to straighten teeth, all types of skin/dermatology stuff to smooth skin. Obviously is really loving the attention from other men. Needing to feel sexy again (most likely all the things I didn't do a very good job at).


H(me:) 44
W: 45
T: 16yrs
M: 13
S: 9
S: 6
Pre BD (not really recognized by either) 8/18
PA 11/18
PA suspected 12/22/18 (Denied)
PA confirmed 12/28/18
PA #2 (Different) 2/16/19
S: 4/7/2019

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
PJ,

No judgement here but can I ask you why you stepped out on your W?

Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard