My story: Fiancee and I (engaged 2 yrs ago) have been together for 11 years. Over the past 1-1.5 years or so she has become so angry towards me and holding grudges about anything and everything. We argued a lot. Nothing was ever settled because she avoids conflict. She has been severely depressed on and off her entire life and nothing can shake her out of it. If questioned she said "i cant explain it." She started to use alcohol quite a bit and anytime I mentioned it she would get angry stating "you cant control me." In October she became pregnant, and because of the drinking we did not proceed with the child. Since then she has been questioning everything and anything in regards to us and our relationship. I started a new job and I haven't been the best other half as i'm working quite a bit. Over the course (since October) she had rekindled her connection with an ex boyfriend who has been trying to break us up for as long as I can remember. Our arguing and fighting continued over little things over the next 2 months in which we both agreed to start counseling. She had planned to go home for xmas and I took the day off prior to and we spent it together and had a great time. The next morning she kissed me and said I love you and off she went to see her parents (so i thought). During this time when she flew back home to see her parents she also went to see the other man that has been a vulture to us for years. Upon return, she stated that she's never been as happy as she is with him and has finally found what love is. She is leaving and nothing I can do or say will change her mind. She stated that she "has wasted the last 11 years of her life and doesn't want to waste another 30." She also blamed me and the environment at home I created for causing her to drink because I make her anxious. I will admit I have a part to this, because when she got really bad with addiction I had to involve her family because I was trying to save her career, and during that time I would be monitoring and questioning. She would lie and say she did nothing.
I did everything wrong after; I tried to beg, plead, try to get her to MC again. I know in some cases this may be a blessing in disguise but I wanted it to work. Nothing worked. The other man has been love bomb texting and calling her ever since January and she is firm on her decision that she is leaving to be with him. This man also is a single father with a child. We live together still in the same house, now in separate rooms. She will not move out because she cant afford to pay for another place. Yet, she has been spending money on new clothes, makeup, flights, etc and maxing out her credit cards. She's a home body and has been going out on weeknights.
Early on she did not talk to me at all and anytime i brought it up she would send me angry texts about how I've wasted her time. Fast forward to 2 months later, she has at times started to talk to me but remains firm on her decision. Her ring is off. There are times where she comes home and looks at me and other times where she just goes to her room and closes the door. I know I need to detach, but it's hard when we live in the same house. I've been going out and GAL as much as I can. We have been through a lot together and I hate to see it go. Everyone including her family was shocked when this occurred (she did not even tell them until 1 month in). I'm not sure if this is a MLC or WAS. Either way, I want her to see what she is giving up and that the grass is greenest where you water it. I told her im not running and im standing many times in the past. Her reply was "you are wasting your time." It's like an alien has taken over her.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Welcome to the board. I am glad you’ve decide to share your story. You can share as much or as little as you choose. From your browsing I see you have realized the futility of begging and pleading. As well I am sure you’ve run across the advice of focus on you and work on detachment.
I have a few questions about your situation. I see you have been in relationship with fiancée for 11 years and engaged for two. Did the two of you ever set a date for wedding? What are your ages?
The OM, he is the vulture, the exBF? I gather she has been seeing him since Christmas. I understand she stays in a separate room in the house. Do you rent or own? And is ownership or lease in both names? You mentioned she is maxing out her credit cards, do you have any joint cards or other joint loans? How about accounts or other joint assets?
Finding detachment is a process and part of that is seeing your situation for what it is. It will take time and is more difficult when living with the person. What GAL activities are you doing?
I understand your feelings, the two of you have been through a lot, and of course you would hate to see it go. Perfectly normal feelings.
Torter, keep the focus on you and let time do its work.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
We did not set a date yet as she is finishing school and were waiting for that. the OM is the exbf/vulture. We don't have anything joint. We are leasing the property together. im 35 shes 34.
i've read mixed things about moving out vs staying ... thus i have not moved. I could easily move out and pay my end of the lease, but from what ive read its best to not do that?
If she is the one that is not happy, then she should be the one to move. If you can find the patience and are able to detach from her behavior, then stay right where you are. In fact, stay in the master bedroom and she can move to another bedroom. For now, treat her as a roommate and go on about your business.
I know it's difficult dealing w/a MLCer or WAS, but you have to let her go in mind, body and spirit. If she truly was unhappy and feels that she wasted her life w/you, she would have recognized this many, many years ago and would have moved on. MLC's main ingredient is depression and she is looking at the world through rose colored glasses right now. She thinks it's greener on the other side of the property line, but it's not always true. She needs to grow up and the only way to do that is to allow her to make her mistakes and, hopefully, learn from them.
For now, continue to keep the focus on you and your financial responsibilities. You can be nice, but don't ask a lot of questions. Observe from afar and do not offer up info about what you are doing. If she asks a question, you can answer it.
Hang in there! Dig deeper for patience and detachment. MLC is not a sprint, but a marathon and it takes a lot of time for them to work through it.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Ok. Will do. It's been 2 months now. I overheard her come home lastnight around 10pm and she stopped near our photos and immediately started to sob and ran to the bathroom. Then came out on the phone with the OM (for 2hours!). It's very confusing behavior, as she will often still wear certain things I had bought to make her happy, and usually when I go distant from her, as she was doing this morning. Another confusing aspect is she is now doing everything we used to argue about at home because she has all this free time. Trying to detach and focus on myself.
I agree with job. You should stay put; she is unhappy then let her leave. Let her do the heavy lifting of figuring out how to get this new life she wants. Are you in the master bedroom? Or is she?
Her sobbing and running to the bathroom. People in crisis exhibit a lot of confusion, because they are. They are running from something deep within their past; something a lot of times they are not even aware of. They will become the opposite of who you once knew, who they once were. As they struggle to hang on to the present reality and run to their fantasy, their carefully constructed world start collapsing and the confusion outwardly shows. My W thought she was going insane during the months before BD.
There is nothing you can do for her to speed up her process. However, you can prolong it. Time and space is what she needs now. Work on detaching and letting her go. That doesn’t mean pack her bags. It is you emotionally letting her do what she has to do.
Be kind, cordial, even business like at times, and turn your focus away from her. This is a long journey for her, and you.
Stay strong.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Ok thanks for the advice. She is in the guest room and I have the master. She will still do things that are unlike her if we are separated; ie: fold my clothes and put them away. Today she is super distant, not speaking or saying hello if I in a business/roommate like way communicate. It makes for a very, very awkward environment!
It is tough to be in your situation and unfortunately I imagine that your journey is only beginning. I don't say that to frighten you but to give you a certain perspective that only comes with time. Most of the turn-arounds here occur after years rather than months. If you have been browsing and reading, you will be familiar with some of the advice given here. One of the first learnings needs to be that there is no magic solution that instantly works making everything good AGAIN. Most newcomers search desperately to find THE ONE THING they need to do NOW to save their relationship. IMO there isn't ONE single thing that can turn around your situation and very little probability that it will occur quickly.
What I have just said could come as a blow and may seem demotivating but there is another way to look at it. Firstly if you believe what I have said, then you can stop searching desperately for that magic solution that doesn't exist. I remember myself being wholey devoted to finding out what I NEEDED to do immediately to save my M. Then once I did that thing I would obsess at finding a new better solution. We as LBS go into panic mode and are desperate. IMO there is no ONE thing that needs to be done, but there are a multitude of steps that once collectively integrated into your life, will give you the best chance of saving your R.
Another aspect of what I have touched upon is that this will take time. That again may sound depressing, but there are two important positives about that:
1. Firstly, when you can accept that, it will alleviate pressure from you. If there is nothing you can do to turn this around immediately, give yourself the time to find the right path for you. Keep reading here and any other source you find helpful and some advice will resonate with you. Just be careful to take the time to distinguish between what you feel you should be doing and what is more likely to work. Once the pressure is off you, she too will feel less pressure from you, which is a key concept. The more she feel pressured the more she will run from you.
2. Secondly if you know you cannot turn this around immediately, you will realise that you have the time to do other things other than try to save your R. If you knew that in six months time or twelve that your fiancée would not be reconnected with you, would you use your time otherwise. I hope so. Use this time to work on yourself, figure out how to be the best, happiest you possible. That may seem like a daunting task given how you feel now and what you are facing, but you being happy will have multiple benefits, including you being more attractive.
Read all the threads linked in Cadets welcome note. Several times even. Then read other peoples threads to find similar to yours and to see the timelines as their stories unfolded.
I could outline my thoughts on an ideal way to proceed but I think it is best for each person to figure out their own path. But I will give you a brief overview of what I see as probably the best place to start. You find yourself in a strange situation and are having a hard time understanding and coping with it. Understandable. My advice to you is to concentrate NOW on doing whatever you can to help you cope with that. It is a confusing and awkward environment. Each LBS will react similarly and differently to what is going on. It is those reactions that you need to focus on. Being depressed, sad, angry, confused, lost, desperate, eager, committed etc are all natural and understandable reactions. But none of them will help improve things with your fiancée. Whereas it is normal to experience these, you should find a way to put on a mask when around her so she does not see them. Easier said than done, I know.
The concept of GAL is mentioned over and over on this site. There is good reason for that. As you are surely still focused on her, I will just mention why GAL is important in relation to her. You going out and doing stuff, shows her you are getting on with your life. That alone is food for thought. It also gives her space, which along with time are your two best allies at the moment.
Best wishes and keep posting. Finding this site and posting are good points that are positive in your battle to save your R.
Last edited by job; 03/04/1906:04 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Sorry for double post. looking back she's been distancing herself probably for about 2 years just being very reclusive and not really wanting to do anything. Been hiding things and when caught denying. For me I think the most difficult part is how it went from I'm so happy and then overnight change to I'm done see you later. Her reasons have been all over the place but mainly she states that she's experienced real love with OM and felt no anxiety and everything was nice and does not want to go back. "He has always loved me." Which I guess is true considering he's been trying to break us up for the greater part of eight years. I actually found an email that he sent about a year ago asking her to take a chance and run away with him. I guess she took the bait.
OM sent a package yesterday. I took it out of the mailbox and handed it to her smiling. Didn't even flinch. I could tell she was surprised. She then came and sat with me for a few minutes on the couch. Afterwards, she was depressed and moping around. When things like this happen, I should continue to pull back right? Not engage or ask whats wrong
You did great by not saying anything about the package. Your reaction gave her something to think about. When she's moping around and down in the dumps, I would leave her alone. She needs to do the work and if you are asking her things about what can you do to make it better, etc., she can't focus on herself and her healing.
Continue to be a great roommate and keep the focus on you. She's going to have a number of days of depression and moping around. When she sees that you are happy and upbeat, she'll begin to get curious and ask what's going on.
Again, you have to keep the focus on you. There is nothing you can do for her, but be a good listener if she comes to you and wants to talk.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Have detached. Dont speak unless its roommate like related. She has been having conversations with OM in front of me and I just ignore. The difficulty in this is the OM is actually a family friend and has infiltrated that side already.
she is firm on her decision that she is leaving to be with him. This man also is a single father with a child. We live together still in the same house, now in separate rooms. She will not move out because she cant afford to pay for another place.
I will outline my thoughts in a minute below, but needed to reread your original post to become clear on your situation
I told her im not running and im standing many times in the past. Her reply was "you are wasting your time." It's like an alien has taken over her. You can stand, but I would stop telling her this. It's like saying you can do whatever you want and I'll take you back.
Last edited by roist; 03/21/1907:56 AM.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Have detached. Dont speak unless its roommate like related. She has been having conversations with OM in front of me and I just ignore. The difficulty in this is the OM is actually a family friend and has infiltrated that side already.
This says a lot to me. Both good and bad!!
although I would prefer to end positively it is better to explain this if I speak about the good side first. This situation is hugely taxing on anybody. The fact that you are able to "ignore" such behaviour shows tremendous strength of character. It is far from easy. Handing over that package smiling, well not many could manage to do that. So congratulations on this strength. To get through this you will need that strength and patience.
Whereas I believe we need to strive to be unaffected by their behaviour, I believe not all behaviour should be accepted. This is my opinion and probably not 100% DB. You need to become clear at where you will draw your lines, beyond which it becomes unacceptable. Each person has different tolerance levels based on many factors. Fair enough. But letting the WAS away with everything and anything is IMO wrong and doesn't do anyone any favours. I accept the argument that it could buy some more time with the WAS still at home and we all know that time is an essential ingredient in resolving a crisis.
But beyond that there are so many reasons to not accept everything. Your sense of self-worth will improve which is hugely important in the long-run. But it also shows strength of character. The WAS may not appreciate it at the time and may react badly, but I believe further down the road it does increase their opinion of the LBS.
What it boils down to is RESPECT. Firstly you need to accept her position as I quoted in my previous post. She has the right to feel that way. Regardless of whether you agree or not it is her reality at the moment. But on the flip side she needs also to treat you with respect. Or moreso you need to ensure you are not disrespected by her. For me receiving parcels at your home and phoning in front of you are two behaviours you need to consider letting her know they are not acceptable going forward. She is free to move out but this is your home and that isn't acceptable.
Sandi speaks often about this so I would advise you to check out her postings in newcomers section.
A word of caution, any time a boundary is stated it needs to be doneso calmly but firmly. Read all you can about boundaries. The downside of boundaries, is that you need to be willing to enforce them, so you need to know the consequences of her not respecting them. Are you willing to ask/tell her to leave? I know that is counter-intuitive as it is the opposite of your ultimate goal, but that does not mean it isn't an option nor in some cases a necessity.
She is in an openly acknowledged affair and intends to move in with him. That you cannot control. But you do have a say in what happens under your roof.
So if you can't control her, what can you control? Well YOU. You need to put all of your focus on yourself. Heinstein once said that if you cannot change a situation you are forced to change yourself. TBH that is also the only way to save your M. You need to change. Not by becoming everything she ever wanted. That won't work. Yes incorporate her criticisms of you where justified but mostly just aim to better yourself in all departments. This isn't easy and takes time, but you have that time and you have demonstrated that you have strength.
The hardest thing to achieve yet I believe an important key is to be HAPPY. Being unhappy (although fully understandable) is unattractive. If you can be happy in your situation, it will not only make you more attractive but she will wonder why. That curiosity is good. You need to fuel it. So how does one become happy in the midst of a M crisis. Honestly not easily. But you need to make a list of stuff that you enjoy and start doing them. NOW. IMMEDIATELY. You may also have heard the saying: "fake it until you make it". Adopt it.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
And as Roist said trying to fix every complaint she threw at me
I am a slow learner
I spent 3, 6, 12 months doing everything wrong
In hindsight I accepted all sorts of disrespect
I just would not let go of her
But the more I pursued
The more she pushed me away
That is the counterintuitive part
It is only when I let go
Let go of her
Let go of fear
That I started to heal
To GAL
To be my own man
Independent of her
To walk away
That is when she started being afraid of losing me
Things happened very slowly
Painfully slowly
But when I felt like giving up
The people here were my cheerleaders
With understanding ears
And words of encouragement
So let me say
You will get through this
One day at a time
You are stronger than you think
P.S. At first, I spoke to W about OM
But over months it was soul crushing
I told her I could not do that anymore
I said that not to save my marriage
I said that to save myself
Only you know if you can do that
And what it does to you
Some can and some cannot
Most of these answers are within you
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Thanks for the support and advice. I'll set firmer boundaries. She doesn't let me know when shes leaving or for how long which is taxing because we have animals in the house and it leaves me to care for. Another aspect is, I make way more money than her and at some point I have to tell her we split Bill's up 50/50 and this is what is owed since OM came into picture. Agree?
Before setting your boundaries be clear on them yourself.
To me ye are no longer a couple so yes it is fair that she pays her fair share. I have used the word fair twice in that sentence to make a point. That point is, everyones version of fair is not the same. She may not think that it is fair. If she has enough money to buy clothes etc and to go out, she has enough to contribute fairly. It's all about priorities and for now hers are elsewhere. Be aware that there is a chance that she could decide that if she has to pay more for rent and bills that she may as well do so with OM. As much as you may not want that, I think it is preferable than continuing to pay her way.
As for how to approach this, I think that stating FROM NOW ON all bills and expenses will be split equally is the way to go. Don't be spiteful or angry. As for the bills already gone, I personally would let them slide. It is fair that she owes you for them but being too rigid and pointy, may not come across well for you.
I will say that this topic has been discussed many times on these boards and different people decided differently. To some that were comfortable financially, the money meant nothing and could easily be let slide. Others got hung up on their principals and it was a point of honour to not pay for the WAS. I think the best road is somewhere in between. Getting back to my earlier point about being respected, I feel continuing to pay undermines even further her opinion of you. She may not have thought that out fully and is just following the flow. I don't think all thinking is a clear cut as when we state it here. But whether unconscious or conscious that is affecting her opinion negatively about you.
Rocking the boat by wanting her to contribute equally, will well rock the boat. She will react as she will react. So you have to be sure it is right for you. If it is out of vengeance or to make it tough on her, it could backfire. If however the motivation for this is for YOU, then her reaction is secondary and whatever happens you will have acted in your own best interest.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Agree. Shes taking trips and buying insane amounts of clothing as of now. Will have to discuss boundaries firmly and also paying her share. I know she will say she doesnt have it and will pay in increments... but, part of wants it all upfront just because trust has been broken.
Theres a massive part of me that wants to text or call her and make her realize how much I stood by during all this nonsense and addiction and poor treatment. How I had moved countries away from my family to be here. I am trying so d@mn hard to not because it will just backfire, but a part of me feels she needs to hear it. It's difficult. I actually signed a contract to work here and am stuck for another year while she is going to leave.
Last edited by job; 03/26/1908:30 PM. Reason: edited a word
Write up a message and then tear it to bits. Trying to rationalize w/someone who is not rational at the moment, will not get your point across and make her realize all that you have done. You have to understand that right now, she doesn't care about your or the relationship. All she wants is her freedom and she thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence....but we all know it is not.
Try to find things to do, call someone up and go out for a cup of coffee or a bite to eat, but keep the focus on you at this time. It's not easy, but you will not get your point across to her right now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks. Thats what I did. Although she's been taking stuff from the house to use at OMs (pots,pans etc). I had to tell her today that wouldn't be tolerated.
I too left my country to move to my W's. I don't feel bitter about that. I like where I live now too. I would advise you to take ownership of that decision and any other decision you have made along the way. Someone once said that we are where we are today because of the decisions we have made in the past. At first view that could come across as a negative thing, but it truly isn't. It is not about blame but moreso taking responsibility for your life. Once you accept that responsibility it means you know you are responsible for your future and it's situations. That is powerful.
I got sidetracked on my point but felt it worth mentioning. Anyway here is my point. As far as your W is concerned she owes you nothing. And as far as you are concerned, you should try to see it that way too. When a R is healthy doing stuff does help fill up a balance and often the more you give the more you receive. It is more complicated than that as you need to take into account what the other person wants to receive and not what you want to give, but that's a story for another day!
Once a R becomes very unhealthy or in your case is finished, the balance sheet gets closed by the WAS and with it any sense of debt or obligations. The WAS owes the LBS nothing, in their viewpoint. Anything done in the past is well in the past. Their focus is no longer on the past but the future. It may seem that her focus for now is the OM. That is also false. All she is seeking is to be happy. It is that simple. She isn't happy where she is so she is taking what she sees as steps to be happy. Being happy is what we all should strive for so in itself, she should not be blamed for her motivations.
At the moment there is not much you can do to change her mind. In fact I believe try to do so is not what you should focus on doing so. You can never force her to come back be acts of kindness, pleading, applying pressure or any other means. That should not be your goal. The ONLY way she will change her mind is that if she realises she could be happy with you and WANTS to come back. It has to come from her.
So where does that leave you? Your best bet to have her want to come back is to change yourself and your situation. This is why working on yourself is the key to this process.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
It's funny and confusing actually. Went away for a couple days and didn't really give her my timeline but I came back last night. Come home and she's sleeping in the master bedroom again with the door closed and locked. Back to her old routine in ways; Using my slippers etc. I had to wake her up and was cordial about it stating I need my things. She simply got up and gathered her things. Didn't say a word or even look me in the eye and went to the other room.
